Pro and Con 603

Posted 9-25-00

Incoming email

I had a question for you. Do you think it is a possibility that the fig tree parable in Luke 13: 6-9 is describing a time from Christ's baptism until he curses the fig tree just before his crucifixion? I believe this is a three year period, with the fourth year being this current age. I look forward to your insight. Also, I'd like to thank you for all that you have taught me over the past several years. In His Love

My reply

The parable of the barren fig tree did apply in 30 AD, but probably applies in our days as well. Many prophecies have a double reference. I think Jesus was baptized near Tishri 1 in 26 AD. Three and a half years later, on Nisan 13 in 30 AD, he was crucified. We can even pick out this pattern in the days preceding the crucifixion. Jesus came to Bethany on Saturday and cursed the fig tree on Monday, the third day, by inclusive reckoning. The fig tree was dried up Tuesday.

In the Modern Parallels, the 480th year was 5758 (1997/1998), the 483rd is 5761 (2000/2001). Since we are the temple of the Holy Spirit and in 1Kings 6:1 the son of David began to raise up the temple, I thought the Rapture would be in the 480th year. It wasn't. I think the Tribulation starts in the 483rd year, 5761 (2000/2001). Counted by inclusive reckoning, the 4 years of the parable of the barren fig tree seem to bridge this time (5758, 5759, 5760, 5761).

Jesus was resurrected after 3 days. If there is a parallel to this for us, maybe the resurrection and Rapture will take place AFTER three years. The Lord's coming for his Bride seems very close no matter how we figure it. We just have to keep watching and wait patiently.

We have already seen signs in the heavens. Lu. 21:28 says, "when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh." We seem to be running the last lap of the race. In I Cor. 9:24, Paul said, "Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain." "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:14). Agape

My reply to a phone call

Re: ALL nations
When you phoned, you said that you do not think "ALL nations" attack Israel when the northern army led by Gog attacks (Eze. 38). Let's look at Scripture. We are definitely told that ALL NATIONS will attack Jerusalem on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Zech. 14:1-3 says, "Behold, the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather ALL NATIONS against Jerusalem to BATTLE; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle" (Joshua's Long Day, when more died with the hail of stones than the Israelites killed, Jos. 10:11-14).

The millennial DAY OF THE LORD arrives on the FEAST OF TRUMPETS, the DAY OF GOD'S WRATH, the day of "THICK DARKNESS." Isa. 13:6 says, "Howl ye; for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand; it shall COME as a DESTRUCTION from the Almighty." Jer. 4:5,6,8,21,23-28 says, "Blow ye the TRUMPET in the land: cry, gather together, and say, Assemble yourselves, and let us go into the defenced cities. Set up the standard toward Zion: retire, stay not: for I will bring evil from the NORTH, and a great DESTRUCTION....for the fierce ANGER OF THE LORD is not turned back from us....hear the sound of the TRUMPET...I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had NO LIGHT. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly. I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled. I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence (paneh, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man) of the LORD, and by HIS FIERCE ANGER. For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end. For this shall the earth mourn, and the heavens above be BLACK."

Jer. 6:1 says, "O ye children of Benjamin, gather yourselves to flee out of the midst of Jerusalem, and blow the TRUMPET in Tekoa, and set up a sign of fire in Bethhaccerem: for evil appeareth out of the NORTH, and great DESTRUCTION."

Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a DESTRUCTION from the Almighty shall it come." Joel 2:1-3,10,11 says, " Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of DARKNESS and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of THICK DARKNESS, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong (the united nations' army led by Gog); there hath not been EVER the like (not before the Day of the Lord), neither shall be any more after it (not after the Day of the Lord), even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them (Gog's united nations' army); and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness....The EARTH SHALL QUAKE before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be DARK, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the DAY OF THE LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?"

This is one unique day, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. There has been none like it in the past. There will be none like it in the future. Mt. 24:21 says, "then shall be great tribulation, such as WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, NO, NOR EVER SHALL BE." Dan. 12:1 calls it "a TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME."

It is also the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture and the Judgment Seat of Christ. Dan. 12:1 continues, "and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." Joel 2:15-20 says, "Blow the TRUMPET in Zion (it is the Feast of Trumpets), sanctify a fast (the upcoming Day of Atonement), call a solemn assembly: Gather the people (both from Heaven and Earth, Mk. 13:27), sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom (Christ) go forth of his chamber, and the bride (Bride of Christ) out of her closet (chuppah). Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people...I will remove far off from you the NORTHERN ARMY, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea, and his hinder part toward the utmost sea, and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things."

Eze. 39:1-4 agrees. It says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against thee, O GOG, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand. THOU SHALT FALL UPON THE MOUNTAINS OF ISRAEL, thou, and all thy bands, AND THE PEOPLE THAT IS WITH THEE."

Eze. 38:18-20 tells us more about this day of God's wrath. It says, "it shall come to pass AT THE SAME TIME when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel (the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea, Zeph. 2:4,5); So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and ALL THE MEN THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, SHALL SHAKE (the great worldwide earthquake) at my presence (paneh, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL to the ground." Civilization as we know it will be destroyed. The cities of the nations will fall.

Rev. 16:18-20 says, "there was a great EARTHQUAKE, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE MEN WERE UPON THE EARTH, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the CITIES OF THE NATIONS FELL: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of HIS WRATH. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

Just as Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD, 40 years after the Crucifixion, I think this destruction will fall 40 years after Israel again regained all of Jerusalem in the Six-Day War of 1967. Lu. 21:20-22 says of 70 AD, " when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with ARMIES, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh. Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the DAYS OF VENGEANCE, that all things which are written may be fulfilled." This is a powerful type of the DAY OF GOD'S WRATH as the Millennium begins.

In the parable of the fig tree in Mt. 24:32-34, Jesus said, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree (Israel); When his branch (modern Israel) is yet tender (apalos, young, i.e., no more than 19, as at the Exodus), and putteth forth leaves (she grew Gaza Strip, Sinai, Golan Heights and West Bank in the Six-Day War of 1967), ye know that summer is nigh (the war started June 5; summer arrived June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see ALL THESE THINGS (Israel back in the land and growing leaves), know that it (the Rapture, the Kingdom of God, Lu. 21:31) is near, even at the doors (symbol of the Rapture, Rev. 3:8, 4:1). Verily I say unto you, This generation (ones born in 1967) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

We know from Mt. 23:36 that one generation is 40 years. To the Pharisees, Jesus said, "All these things shall come upon THIS GENERATION." They did, in 70 AD. Therefore, 1967 + 40 = 2007. The Feast of Trumpets is on Sept. 13, 2007, just 14 years (7 bad, 7 good) from when the Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993. Agape

Incoming email

I can't believe you responded to my mail so quick. You're like one of those operators that are always standing by. Your stamina is amazing....

I think you might have missed the main point I was trying to make about the ten virgins parable in Matthew 24. So let me see if I can clarify. When our Lord spoke in parables, one of the things that's still amazing 2000 years later is the precision of the language and the metaphors involved. At the time, they might have seemed confusing. And that was by design. The Pharisees were following our Lord around like a pack of ambulance-chasing lawyers, looking for him to say something counter to Jewish law in order to arrest him. At the time of the Olivet discourse, multiple wives were already forbidden under Jewish law. It was a crime then, just as it is a crime now. I can't imagine the disciples listening to this parable would have understood it, even metaphorically, as the Lord taking five brides. It would have sounded as wrong to their ears as it does to mine. Bear in mind, they had lived with Christ for several years and had never witnessed him sinning, in thought or deed. He was perfect. For Him to imply imperfection (taking more than one wife at a time) would have been his first and only recorded sin.

I understand fully the concept of the Bride of Christ (the Church) and what a wonderful thing it is to be in that corporate body. My sole point is that this passage can't be talking about the rapture of the church because, to interpret it that way would have our Lord explaining the Kindom in a context of criminal (both legally and morally) behavior.

So if this parable isn't speaking about the Bride, who are the virgins? I've always felt it is most likely talking about the Daughters of Jerusalem. The same chorus in Songs that couldn't understand why Solomon (a type of Christ) would choose the Shulammite woman (a type of Chuch) over them. They were all part of the potential Bride pool and assumedly all virgins. They all saw the wedding procession coming. But not one of them became the Bride. In Christ

My reply

I don't always answer that fast. :-)

I understand why you do not think the 5 virgins are the Bride of Christ. Let's look at the whole thing again. I think that Hebrews understood as no one else did that God espoused the whole nation to himself at Sinai. They knew that they had been put away for their sins. They knew that Israel would again be taken back after the Messiah came. They knew the difference between marriage between a man and woman and marriage to God. Isa. 62:4,5 promised the people, "Thou shalt no more be termed Forsaken; neither shall thy land any more be termed Desolate: but thou shalt be called Hephzibah, and thy land Beulah: for the LORD delighteth in thee, and thy land shall be married. For AS (symbolic language) a young man marrieth a virgin, so shall thy sons marry thee: and AS the BRIDEGROOM rejoiceth over the BRIDE, so shall thy God rejoice over thee."

Mt. 13:10 says, "the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables? He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto YOU to KNOW the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given." In Mt. 22:1-14, Jesus told the parable of the wedding feast, where MANY ARE CALLED, but few chosen." This suggests that more than one will be chosen.

In the Olivet Discourse, Mt. 24:3 says, "the DISCIPLES came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming (parousia, presence), and of the end of the world (lit., consummation of the age)?"

He answered them in the parable of the fig tree. Mt. 24:32-34 says, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree (Israel); When his branch (modern Israel) is yet tender (apalos, young, i.e, no more than 19, as at the Exodus), and putteth forth leaves (grows, as in the Six-Day War), ye know that summer is nigh (the war started June 5, summer came the 21st): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it ('the kingdom of God,' Lu., 21:31, i.e., the Rapture) is near, even at the doors (symbol of the Raptures, Rev. 3:8; 4:1). Verily I say unto you, This generation (born in 1967) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

In v. 37, he said, "as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming (parousia) of the Son of man be. Verses 41 and 42 say, "one shall be taken, and the other left." Verse 44 warns us, "Therefore be ye also ready." In verses 45-51, he talks to the "wise servant" and the "evil servant," and says of the evil one, "The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder (i.e., spue him out of his mouth, Rev. 3:16), and appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation, Dan. 8:14) with the hypocrites (pretenders, also the unbelievers, Lu. 12:46): there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH," just as when the man was cast out of the door for not having on a wedding garment in Mt. 22:11-13).

The very next words are "Then shall the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN be likened unto ten virgins." The parable of the 10 virgins in Mt. 25 hinges on the Rapture in 24:33-51. The passage still speaks of the Rapture until 25:30 reinforces 24:51, saying, "cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."

To me, the parable of the 10 virgins refers to the Philadelphians and Laodiceans. The lukewarm Laodiceans are spued out of his mouth (Rev. 3:16), and the Philadelphians have the "open door" of the Rapture set before them (Rev. 3:8). Agape

Incoming email

Re: PS on 2 Peter 3-7
Just had a thought about this passage and your comment:

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

### Peter said, "THIS THEY ARE WILLINGLY IGNORANT OF." I don't think they were ignorant of Noah's Flood. The Scriptures are too clear on that to be missed.

The they that this is talking about are the scoffers in the last days - not the people of Peter's day. Maranatha!

My reply

You are right. Thanks for clarifying this. Agape

Incoming email

Hello sweet sister.Well, your latest p&c really blew me out of my chair esp the 2nd and 4th emails. Just some food for thought here. Did you know that all through the month of Elul a trumpet is blown everyday after the morning service EXCEPT on Sabbaths and the day PRECEEDING ROSH HASHANNAH? Now do you think that the day before RH God Himself is reserving the day for HIS TRUMPET to be blown? YSIC

My reply

Thanks. I had not thought of that. Maybe I haven't paid enough attention to those trumpets, because I don't remember them being called for in Scripture. I'll just wait and see. Maranatha. Agape

Incoming email

I am -----, who some years ago, died and got a glimpse of Heaven. This morning while having devotions, and in the thoughts of 'Loving His Appearing' I was thinking excitedly about 9/28. I know that we don't just 'play around with scripture', but I thought, I wonder what the 9th book of the Bible, 2nd chapter, 8th verse says??

There it was: 'He raiseth up the poor out of the dust, and lifteth up the beggar from the dunghill, to set them among princes, and to make them inherit the throne of glory: for the pillars of the earth are the Lord's and he hath set the world upon them.'

Anyway I do with you, lean toward the Spring of the year for the Rapture. Can you believe that we, indeed, are still here to see all this 'setting up' for the Antichrist'!! Looks like things are in the works for the UN to take over the Temple Mount. Have you seen the article from Texe Marrs saying that it is all set up: Gore will be elected president, then Hillary will be president, while B.Clinton will be in a position of authority in the UN. Thanks for All - Looking Up

My reply

That passage might tie in with the Pre-Wrath Rapture. See what you think.

I Sam. 2:7-10 says, "The LORD maketh poor, and maketh rich: he bringeth low, and LIFTETH UP. He RAISETH UP THE POOR OUT OF THE DUST, and LIFTETH UP the beggar from the dunghill, TO SET THEM AMONG PRINCES (the elders that were caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture), and to make them inherit the THRONE OF GLORY ('sit with me in my throne,' Rev. 3:21): for the pillars of the earth are the LORD's, and he hath set the world upon them. He will keep the feet of HIS SAINTS, and the wicked shall be silent in DARKNESS; for by strength shall no man prevail. The adversaries of the LORD (Gog's army, Eze. 38) shall be BROKEN TO PIECES; OUT OF HEAVEN SHALL HE THUNDER UPON THEM (the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 will impact Earth): the LORD shall JUDGE (at the Judgment Seat of Christ) the ends of the earth (Rev. 11:18); and he shall give strength unto his king (Christ), and exalt the horn of his anointed."

> > Have you seen the article from Texe Marrs

Nothing that definite. Do you have the URL?

I never thought we would see this much take place. The Tribulation can't be far away. Agape

Incoming email

Hello my Sister, Thank You for Your Kind reply. The URL for the Texe Marrs - Hillary to be President:
http://www.texemarrs.com/072000/hilpres.htm
Loving Sharing the Scriptures with you

Incoming email

Re: rosh hashanah rapture
I just read pro and con 602 and I agree with a rapture on or about 29 september for many reasons,mainly because I think the year 5760 is the cutoff date for the rapture, I agree with jim bramlett's webpage and the cityoflight website about the significance of 5760,now I heard nato and the usa is planning to invade serbia in the next week leading up to 29 sept ,I think this will probably kickoff a major war which could be preceded by the rapture,GOD BLESS YOU,you have really ministered to me through and others through your website.

My reply

Thanks for your kind words. There are a couple of things that stand out in favor of the Eve of Trumpets. It is the last day of the 7 good years from when the Oslo Accords were ratified in Israel. It is also the anniversary of the day I think Eve was taken out of Adam's body. However, Song of Sol. 2:10-14 fits springtime better. Just be ready, whenever it takes place. Maranatha. Agape

Incoming email

Mark Rouleau (22 Sep, "VIRGIN MARY APPEARS AT A MONASTERY IN EGYPT" Will this unite a One world religion? http://216.71.21.191/roundup/v05/rnd05_38.shtml

My reply

I don't know, but I keep wondering if "Jezebel" of Rev. 2:20 has anything to do with apparations.

Incoming email

Re: Interesting thoughts on the gates and foundations of Rev. 21
As I was reading one of your responses in P&C 601, I received an interesting thought. You referred to Rev. 21:12 &14 which say: And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel: And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

It is interesting that the "gates" are associated with the twelve tribes of "Israel". It was through that lineage that Jesus, who was the "door" to our salvation, entered into the world. "Israel" was a "gate" to deliver THE GATE or door, Jesus.

At the same time the twelve foundations are given the name of the twelve apostles. Those apostles represent the mature ones or the elders that are a part of the church. Notice that they are named for the 12 foundations not the 12 walls. Foundations support or undergird the structure of a building. In this case the building is the New Jerusalem the home of the church, both the Bride and the tribulation saints. It is interesting that in Rev. 3:12 it talks of the overcomers of the Philadelphian church, which of all the 7 churches is a type of the Bride, and says: 12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

The Bride, the mature ones, the elders, will be made a pillar in the temple of God. The New Jerusalem in a broad sense is the temple of God, being the place that he will abide in. A pillar, like a foundation, supports and undergirds. Isn't it interesting that both the Bride and the Apostles are compared to that which undergirds the entire structure, the building of God, the church (1 Cor. 3:9). Your Brother in Jesus

My reply

Thanks for bring this to my attention. Eph. 2:20 says that we "are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone." Agape

Found on the Internet

Mystery of asteroid Eros: So much rock, so little gravity CORNELL UNIVERSITY NEWS RELEASE. 9-24-00 ...How could something so small have so much debris lying around? That is the puzzle presented by asteroid 433 Eros in the first major reports on the composition and history of the 21-mile-long body... Writing in the latest edition of the journalScience (Sept. 22), Joseph Veverka of Cornell University describes tiny Eros as having a surface "saturated" with tiny craters smaller than 1 kilometer (0.6 miles) in diameter and "abundant" with rocks 30 to 100 meters (33 to 109 yards) across. The craters and the boulders, says Veverka, indicate many violent collisions with the asteroid over time. But the gravity on Eros is so weak "that intuition and calculation tell you that most of the debris produced in a collision would have escaped -- but the surface is full of it." Veverka explains: "...We simply don't understand this." ..."We basically know that Eros is an example of a very primitive body in which nothing much has happened other than formation and cratering. If you want the most pristine material in the solar system that has had the least happen to it, then Eros is a good example," Veverka says.

My comment

I think Eros has had a lot more happen to it than he knows. He hasn't a clue because he doesn't think there was a planet that split apart.

Incoming email

Arutz-7 news. 9-17-20, 2000
THE DISMANTLING OF THE MINISTRY OF RELIGIOUS AFFAIRS
Prime Minister Ehud Barak's secular revolution appears to be becoming a reality, with the help of Justice Minister Yossi Beilin. Beilin has already begun dismantling the Ministry of Religious Affairs, as outlined in a four-month plan he and his staffers have drawn up. The process begins with the closure of certain departments - a move that does not require Knesset approval - within a month and a half.

Beilin, whose plan it is to "give other religions in Israel a greater sense of partnership," explains his strategy in his introduction to the program (quoted in HaTzofeh):

"Our diplomatic relations with the Vatican are improving... and the same is true regarding the appeasement process with the Arab world. This will require us in the coming years to increase budgetary allocations towards developing Islamic and Christian institutions... Inter-religious understanding and coordination will be required... The dismantling of the Ministry of Religious Affairs, and the transfer of its activities to other government ministries, is indicated... It behooves us to find a way to grant the other streams of Judaism and other religions in Israel a feeling of greater partnership and equality..."

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