Pro and Con 608

Posted 10-5-00

Prayer Needed

From the 5doves site: Jim Bramlett (3 Oct), "Jean Kincaid's Health"

Everyone please pray!!! Jean, a recently retired medical doctor, is a dear sister in Christ who has been watching with us for the Lord's soon return. She needs a miracle.

Hello Jim, I am Jean's daughter, Cindy. I don't know what she has told you (probably not much). She is seriously ill and without a new pancreas, she will die soon. She is in a great deal of pain. She absolutely believes God can give her a new pancreas and can restore her vision. I asked her if it was okay to send this prayer request out, and she was very happy. Please ask those you know to pray for her. She has received so many miracles from God, we all believe this can also be done. She wants to do so much more for Him before she goes, and her body needs to be able to function properly.... Thank you, Cindy Rebmann

Incoming email

Re: odd dream
And again, it's me, Joshua. Of course I'd email you back, how could I not? It just took some time, that's all.

I'm quite honored to have everyone praying for me and the like, and it really makes me believe that the dream had incredible significance. And, the decision? Well...

Basically, I've been thinking, re-thinking, and thinking some more about this issue, and I think, almost without a doubt, that the tribulation is going to occur. How can it not, with so much proof? All a matter of when.

Of course, I'm still undecided about the staying issue. Why would I want to stay in such an insane time? Am I stupid? No, no, it's for several reasons that I'm seriously considering staying. For one, I made a vow that I would help my friends through times of trouble, and why should they stay and suffer while I leave them? Even if I tried to convert them now, they wouldn't believe me until the rapture showed its face. I feel as though I have people to help, and as soon as the main event, the rapture, occurs, I'm putting all my faith in Christ.

I've always wished that if I died, I would die for a cause. If it's to help my friends, or to be a martyr, so be it. Yes, I would like to leave. Yes, I would absolutely love to miss these chaotic years.

However, it seems as if the only noble thing for me to do is stay. At least I don't have to say "Please reply", because I know you will. Heh.--Josh

My reply

You are putting the welfare of your unsaved friends before your own welfare. If you were to have an accident and be killed, you would be the one to suffer bitter regret in hell. Please don't put off asking Christ to be your own personal Saviour. Get your own hold on eternal life in Heaven secure. Christ will baptize you with his Holy Spirit. Then you will be in a position to try to help your friends now, before the Rapture. You never know until you try. Maybe they will also accept Christ for the same reasons you do. That way, you would all be together in Heaven.

What you tell them now would be remembered by them if you were caught up to Heaven in the Rapture. It might do a whole lot more good than if you stayed behind. They also might see you go up. Psalms 40:1-3 shows that "many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."

You got a warning. It may have been for a powerful reason. You may not have much more time to make a decision. It's not smart to put it off.

However, if you stay behind, know that you can't take the Mark of the Beast. It may turn out to be a smart card type scanable microchip implant in the back of the right hand or just under the hairline on the forehead. Without it, you won't be able to buy or sell. You won't even be able to buy life-saving medicine if you are sick. Diabetics will not be able to buy insulin. The False Prophet is called Death, and Satan, who possesses him, is called Hell in Revelation 6:8. It says, "I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the FOURTH PART OF THE EARTH, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

Revelation 14:9-11 is a warning. It says, "the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast (the Satan-possessed False Prophet) and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name."

When Christ comes for his believers, he will say from the heavens, "Come up hither" (Rev. 4:1). Hebrews 12:25 warns, "See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven."

Please let me know what you think. The best way to help your friends is to help yourself first. Then you will be in a position to try to help them now, before their chance to be caught up in the Rapture evaporates. By not trying to bring them to Christ now, you may be dooming them. When the wicked one, the Satan-possessed False Prophet, is in control, "Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (II Thess. 9-12). Why risk it?

Why not tell them what Paul said in Romans 10:9,10? It says, " That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." It is not God's will that any be lost. It is their own will. In His love

Incoming email

Seeking to defuse the violence sweeping the Gaza Strip and West Bank, an Israeli army commander has reportedly ordered his units not to fire unless fired upon, and Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat Monday agreed to meet U.S. Secretary of State Madeleine Albright in an attempt to reach a lasting peace.

Incoming email

Last January my sister's thirty year old son died in a plane crash. No one in my family had ever died short of their eighties, so this was a horrible tragedy for us all.

One of my nieces, in the depths of her grief, turned to God for the first time in her life. Just like you read about in books, God birthed her into the Spirit and gave her the knowledge of eternity with her brother. Her well has since overflowed to such a degree that no family member has been unaffected by her overflow. God, eternity, and how to get there is now foremost in the minds of nearly all my family. Strange how things work out.

Now, well informed of the Rapture and its imminence, my niece is horrified that she is not worthy to make the first Rapture since she is so new to it all. I have been sending her all your postings on the subject and have been spending many hours with her on the phone discussing the subject.

In an effort to make it simple, I took her to Revelation 3:7-22. Jesus Himself makes it plain and simple as to who makes Rapture 1 and who doesn't. Verses 15-16 leaves no doubt as to the outcome. "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

Since it is so obvious (even to herself) that my niece is "hot" and not anywhere near "lukewarm", the problem is resolved.

Now to the point of this email. I have read Revelation 3:7-22 innumerable times in the last twenty-five years. As I was reading and explaining it word by word to my niece a few weeks ago, I saw something I had never seen before.

"So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,..". Jesus refers to three categories of believers; those who are "lukewarm", those who are "cold", and those who are "hot". In verse 15, Jesus says, "I would thou wert cold or hot."

Jesus clearly states that the "cold" would NOT be vomited out. He tells the "lukewarm" that He wishes they were cold OR hot, but since they are not one of those (cold or hot), He is going to vomit them up. To me, this clearly implies that the "cold" will make the first Rapture.

Let me hear what you think about this. Give Ed my best. Agape Forever

My reply

Thank you Lord. I have been praying for you and your family. Thank you so much for sharing this with me.

My opinion re: the Laodiceans. When Jesus gives his messages to the 7 church groups, I think it is as if the setting, or time, is when the Rapture is "at hand" (Rev. 1:3; 22:10). He signs off in the last chapter with "Surely I come quickly. At that point, time is short, even as it is for us today.

When the Rapture is at hand, Jesus Christ has to make decisions, who is a wise virgin that gets caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture and who is a foolish virgin that gets caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture. James 5:9 says, "Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the DOOR." This is the "open door" set before the Philadelphians.

The cold are eliminated for they are not believers. Their sins are not forgiven. The hot are Philadelphians, wise virgins. They have already confessed their sins since they accepted Christ to bring all under the blood of Christ. Like Peter, they have allowed the Lord to wash their feet. They are clean every whit. Jn. 13:10 says, "He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit." Their spiritual garments are white robes of "dikaioomata," righteousnesses (lit., Rev. 19:8). They include Christ's righteousness that is imputed to them plus their righteous acts since accepting Christ.

Easy decisions out of the way, he looks at the Laodiceans, the lukewarm, and gives them a warning. In Rev. 3:19, he says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent." Those that take heed become Philadelphians, before whom the "open door" is set (Rev. 3:8). Those that stay lukewarm get spued out of his mouth to be tried by the trial that shall come upon all the world (Rev. 3:10) during the Tribulation. The Philadelphians will be caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

Since the "open door" is only set before the Philadelphians (meaning brotherly love), it seems that those living saints who repent in each church group are funneled into the Philadelphian group and go through Heaven's open door in Rev. 4:1. They are the overcomers.

In the message to the church of Ephesus (desired, or aimed at), Jesus gives them a strong warning too. They find out that their candlestick's position in Heaven is at risk. That is serious. He says, "Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and REPENT, and do the first works; OR ELSE I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of HIS PLACE (Heaven, Jn. 14:2-4), except thou REPENT." These have left their first love. They need to repent and be like Philadelphians (brotherly love).

The message to Smyrna (bitterness, myrhh, an embalming spice) does not say that they have to repent. They are told to be "faithful unto death." Martyrs for their faith are given "white robes" (Rev. 6:11).

Pergamos (thoroughly married), "WHERE SATAN'S SEAT IS," also receives a strong warning. After mentioning those that have the doctrine of Balaam, eating things sacrificed to idols and committing fornication, Jesus says, "So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes (setting up a priesthood over the laity), which thing I hate (all believers are actually priests). REPENT; OR ELSE I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth" (i.e., they will be cut off and left behind).

Lu. 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation, Dan. 8:14) with the UNBELIEVERS (i.e., the cold)." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." This one cut off is like the man at the wedding feast in Mt. 22. He is cut off and cast into the darkness outside the door (i.e., he does not go through Heaven's open door with the Philadelphians). Mt. 22:13,14 says, "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen." Rev. 17:14 says that "they that are with him (Christ) are called, and chosen, and faithful." This is what we should desire, aim at.

The doctrine of the Nicolaitans that entered the church at Pergamos has permeated the fullblown dominating church of Thyatira (dominating female). Though Jesus knows their "works, and charity, and service, and faith, and...patience," in Rev. 2:21,22, he had a very strong warning for her. He said, " I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not. Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery (join) with her into great tribulation (the last half of the Tribulation), except they REPENT of their deeds. And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works."

The church at Sardis (those escaping) is also given a warning. In Rev. 3:2,3, Jesus tells them, " Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and REPENT. If therefore thou shalt not WATCH, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come (at the Rapture) upon thee."

All 7 messages mention overcomers. It looks like all the overcomers have obeyed the instructions to repent and therefore have become Philadelphians (brotherly love) before whom Jesus has set the "open door."

Repent is "metanoeo, to think differently, a change of mind. We all need to read I John 1: 5-9 and find out what is required for fellowship with our Holy God. To be in fellowship, we must confess our sins committed since we accepted Christ so he can cleanse us of all unrighteousness. This gets rid of the barrier that sin has erected between us and our holy God. We are then back in fellowship with him. We should then walk in the light as he is in the light. "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness (sin), we lie, and DO not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another (brotherly love), and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." The Holy Spirit will then well up within us as a fountain of living water. Our cup will run over. We will be filled with the Spirit of God and be chosen as a wise virgin, worthy to escape before the Tribulation trial starts.

Lu. 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

I Peter 1:4-9 says, "an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you, Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time (year). Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, IF NEED BE (i.e., IF we are lukewarm Laodiceans or foolish virgins), ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations: That the TRIAL OF YOUR FAITH, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire (i.e., during the shortened Tribulation), might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ (when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen, Mt. 24:30): Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls."

We should desire and aim to be caught up in the first Rapture. However, "IF NEED BE," we can learn to wash our robes and make them white in the blood of Christ with the Tribulation saints (Rev. 7:14). For me, I want to learn my lessons the easy way. I want to be chosen as the Bride of Christ and be called by the Bridegroom at the Pre-Trib Rapture.

I don't think the cold will be caught up at either Rapture. Agape

His reply

That was a perfect answer to my question of the "cold".

Also, your in-depth explanation of the seven letters will definitely help my family. Thanks for your prayers. Agape to You and Ed

Incoming email

FWD: Re: Oct 8 from Bill
PAPAL CONSECRATION: THE WORLD AND THE THIRD MILLENNIUM
(Note from Bill: First, it was the Vatican's instruction to Roman Catholics to uphold the dogma that their church is the sole path to spiritual salvation. Now Pope John Paul II will "entrust" the World and the Third Millennium to the Immaculate Heart of Mary on Oct. 7-8. Friends, this is blasphemy!)

On Saturday, October 7, in Rome, Pope John Paul II will lead a torch light rosary procession with the statue of Our Lady from Fatima. He is asking all parishes to organize a procession or at least an evening rosary for the intention of consecrating the world, the church, and the new millennium to the Immaculate Heart...

At 8 p.m. (Rome time) in St. Peters-the Holy Father, with thousands of bishops, will lead a "World Rosary"-before this same statue that will have arrived from Fatima the night before...

The following day, Oct. 8th, with these bishops surrounding this same statue from Fatima, the Pope will officially "entrust" the world and the entire third Millennium to Mary!....The Pope will re-consecrate the world, the church, and the Third Millennium to the Immaculate Heart of Mary.

...the triumphant victory of the Immaculate Heart of Mary [is] soon to be fulfilled... universal consecration and conversion, along with the Pope, the Magisterium, cardinals and bishops which will come to a climax on October 7 and 8 in Rome....

The accomplishment of our Lady's triumph will be the single most important victory in the history of salvation and, therefore, should be taken very seriously...

Our Lady who comes to bring us messages of peace and hope wishes to save us from eternal damnation, and the accomplishment of eternal bliss in heaven with the Holy Trinity-Father, Son, and her Spouse, the Holy Spirit, who is the giver of life... She beseeches us, therefore, to pray, pray, pray, fervently from the heart... the Joyful Mysteries, the Sorrowful Mysteries, and the Glorious Mysteries of the life, birth and death of her Son, coupled with fasting and abstinence, is most effective in appeasing the wrath of our merciful Father in heaven, who beholds the world engulfed in sin...

My reply

> > our Lady's triumph will be the single most important victory in the history of salvation

The single most important victory in the history of salvation is the Resurrection of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. Mary is not the Saviour. She cannot save anyone from "eternal damnation." Only Christ can do that. I Thess. 5:9 says, "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ."

Incoming email

Rosh Hashanah has now passed, and the Pre-Trib Rapture did not occur. In my opinion this is very relevant.

First thing I want to address is when I heard Luke 9:34 on September 21st. As I had mentioned, one of two things was going to happen about 8 days later, the Pre Trib Rapture OR another sign. I have had enough experience now with the many signs I have had to know that I just keep getting to another link in a chain. I do not think any Christian could have predicted what has happened on the Temple Mount since Mr. Ariel Sharon visited about eight days after I was told Luke 9:34, so once again I accept by faith that the Lord counted me worthy of sharing another sign with my Spirit Filled Brothers and Sisters in Jesus Christ. There have been two responses to my sharing these signs with others. Some brand me as a spiritual dummy, and others listen patiently, watch, and move on looking for further signs (exactly as you do).

The latter response is the ONLY one that a Spirit Filled Christian can take. I am convinced that being called as the Bride of Jesus Christ is a high calling. There is only ONE way of being worthy, Habakkuk Chapter 2 verse 4, "The just shall live by FAITH". I was also shown this verse by the Lord in 1999. I was in a situation of INTENSE persecution that day, and cried out to the Lord asking "how long is this going to go on Lord?. I pulled out my Bible from my briefcase and opened it right up to this page of Scripture, and looked right at this verse.

Now as Elul 29 and Tishri 1 and 2 passed by, I have been intensely praying and reading scriptures. I have come to the conclusion that without a doubt in my mind that the Pre WRATH Rapture is on Rosh Hashanah in 2007. I would like to suggest that this is the overwhelming conviction that many of the Spirit Filled Believers have had both on letters to your site, as well as Five Doves. Rosh Hashanah has many many related principles to a Jewish Wedding. That makes a direct connection to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb on the Day of the Lord. Also, I have not read anywhere that there is a question of The Day of The Lord being 40 years and 120 days after the six day war of 1967. Even post millenialists seem to agree on this date.

The scriptures I keep being directed to after Prayer, are First Thessalonians Chapter 5. Paul wrote this book to Spirit Filled Believers. Chapter 4 verse 17 describes the Pre Trib Rapture. The beginning of Chapter 5 is directly related to the MIddle East Peace process. What is NOT in here, is a discussion of Feasts. Marilyn, I pray that you know after all the time we have corresponded that what I wish to say is in Agape Love to you. I am not criticizing at all here. Could you search your heart deeply to think about what originally led you to search the Feasts for a Pre Trib Rapture date. I totally agree that a Feast Day makes complete sense for the Day of The Lord, but after the last three years, many of us have been looking at Feast Days, and have not been successful. I AM NOT BEING CRITICAL, rather I am not convinced at all that we should be looking at Feast Days for the Pre Trib Rapture as the only candidates. The last Feasts of 2000 will be at an end before the end of this month of October 2000. The Tribulation has to start by Pentecost, next May 28 of 2001. The conundrum here is that I agree with you that Song of Solomon applies, summer is nigh. This only leaves the next several weeks of October, even though SOS is a stretch at this point in time. Looking at what is currently going on on the Temple Mount right now, it does not seem as if things are just going to settle down, so that everyone involved in the negotiation can leisurely talk this over until next March. Mr Barak is going to lose his power of negotiation if the Knesset carries out it's intentions later this month. Mr Arafat has made it clear that a declaration of a Palestinian State is a pressing matter, and again it does not make sense that suddenly he will sit around leisurely for another six months. It is going to take something significant to change the present situation, either the UN is going to take control of the situation, or the Pre Trib Rapture will occur. Based on First Thessalonians, I do not see how the Spirit Filled Christians can be here when the "peace and safety" is in place on the Temple Mount. I do not believe that Spirit Filled Christians could be deceived by this false "peace and safety". Also, it seems that the daily sacrifice has to resume in the Temple for the Tribuation to start. There just is not enough time for this to happen if the Pre Trib Rapture is next March on Ascension Day. And as I said above, I do not see how we can toss out the 2007 end of generation date. Why are so many young Children speaking of Jesus Christ coming for us within the next few weeks?

As beloved Brother Paul said, we are running a race, striving for the high calling of the Bride of Jesus Christ. I would like to suggest that this requires unending Faith and Watching. Spirit Filled Believers will never stop sharing their insights, no matter how many dates go by. Mockers are present, and Scripture clearly says this is a trait of the end times.

I challenge all the Believers that no matter how dissapointed or despondent they may become, to beware of a snare, falling into dis-belief and mockery. Look back into the Old Testament and see how long Noah waited in FAITH. Look how long Abraham and Sarah waited for a Child. Abraham was saved by Faith in God, he was not circumsized, he was not a Jewish man (he was Assyrian), and he did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as we do today. Watch and pray to be worthy, do not let up just because it is becoming winter. Let us all continue to share our discernments! Agape

My reply

"The just shall live by FAITH" no matter what happens or doesn't happen when we think it should.

As for the Rapture taking place on a feast day, it might and it might not. However, with the rate of other important events falling on a feast day, I long ago decided that Pentecost seemed the most likely. Now, because I think we are out of here before the Tribulation starts, and if Cheshvan 17 (Nov. 15, 2000) (date when Noah went in the Ark and the door was closed) goes by, next Ascension Day will seem most likely. Agape

His reply

You said that so well. When I wrote you before about my dreaming that Noah said "Chodesh", that was exactly eight days after Luke 9:34 of September 21st. It is interesting that this was around the "chodesh that ended Elul, but was not on the same day. I don't see any meaning there. It is only conjecture, but since "chodesh" is next on October 27/28, I was thinking that might be the cutoff for this year. I revise my thinking now, and agree that if we do not meet our LORD in the air by your date, I can not see any windows until the spring of 2001. However, in my personal prayer based opinion, I still have many convictions for it to be this year. We will live by FAITH as we watch. Agape

Incoming email

From Holland:
Although I haven't mailed you for some time, I wanted to let you know that I have been reading your site every day. Since it has become my morning-ritual (time-difference), I'm probably one of the first to see a new page.

When I was on vacation during the Israeli-Palestinian peace-talks it really bothered me not to have access to my real NEWSpaper. Things happening right now in Jerusalem have made me feel as if I should just keep my eyes wide open and stay close to the Lord. I don't feel like speculating what will happen now, and it's probably not necessary since things are unfolding so rapidly!

Good news is that one of my colleagues is so fascinated with the Jews and everything that's going on, that I could talk to her about my faith. She is quite hard to reach though, raised in the Roman Catholic Church, with hard feelings toward churches and without any knowledge of the bible. That's why I find it amazing how she can see something important is happening in Israel, while most of my churchmembers seem not interested.

Did you see the huge opening and closing ceremonies that were held in Sydney? Although I only saw parts of it, they struck me as being a celebration of human vanity and achievement. There was something very unpleasant about them. What the pope is doing right now is also worth watching (October 7-8 world consecration to the immaculate heart of Mary). 2000 really seems to be a year of global happenings.

The following is a part of a song from an old Amy Grant tape that we have in our car. We often sing along with it while driving. Singing can be such a blessing.

"...days like these are just the test of our faith
Will we walk or will we fall?
Well, I can almost see the top of the hill
And I believe it's worth it all..

In a little while we'll be with the Father
can't you see Him smile?
In a little while we'll be home forever
In a while
We're just here to learn to love Him
We'll be home in just a little while..."

I wish you and your loved ones all the best. Though at first sight it does not always seem that way, I am absolutely sure God richly blesses those who serve Him. In Christ

My reply

How nice to hear from you again. I'm so glad you got the opportunity to talk to your friend about your faith. Yes. I saw the opening and closing ceremonies for the Olympics and enjoyed hearing the 12-year old girl sing both times. I was thinking how the athletes felt. It was a blast for them. I saw it through because I didn't want to miss the fireworks. What a show that was. It made up for my not seeing any on July 4, our Independence Day.

We are like spectators watching the world as it heads into the Tribulation. Things seem about to pop. Blessings and agape

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