Pro and Con 610

Posted 10-8-00

Incoming email

I thought you might be interested in this conversation. http://pub16.ezboard.com/frapturereadyendtimenews.showMessage?topicID=1364.topic

Does Oct. 8 start the jubilee? Last trump then?

In Bible 120 special jubilee trumpets are mentioned that only the Lord blows. He blows them every 50 years. THat amounts to 6000 years of trumpet blowing. The last one will be blown on the Jubilee that will be declared for the year 5761. I think I read that that Jubilee is to be declared Oct. 8. If so the last trump will sound Oct. 8, 2000. However, it is IMPOSSIBLE to predict Oct. 8 as date for rapture. This is because no man--only God--knows if the Jubilee trumpet and the rapture trumpet are one and the same. If they are one and the same--and that is a big IF--the rapture will occur on Oct. 8. I think all of the above info is correct. Anyone care to verify or correct the above info and add their own comments? It would be appreciated.

My reply

Please tell me where the Bible mentions these "120 special jubilee trumpets" that the Lord blows "every 50 years." It is my understanding that the Jubilee cycle is a 49-year cycle. Thus it stays aligned with the sabbatic years. The 50th year is also the 1st year of the new cycle. I also thought the priests caused the trumpet to sound.

Lev. 25:8-11 says, "thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. Then shalt THOU CAUSE THE TRUMPET OF THE JUBILE TO SOUND on the tenth day of the seventh month (i.e., of the 49th year), in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year (starting the following Nisan 1), and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family. A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed."

Since the Jubilee trumpet was to sound on Tishri 10, could that date have anything to do with the Rapture? It is possible. Tishri 10, 5761 is Oct. 9, 2000, our Columbus Day and the Canadian Thanksgiving Day. That is the Jew's Yom Kipur, thought to be the day when the Lord either accepts or rejects a person. Could it be the day of the acceptance of the Philadelphian wise virgins and the rejection of the Laodicean foolish virgins? It follows the 10 days of awe between Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, and Tishri 10, the Day of Atonement. The 10 days of Rev. 2:10 could tie in there. We don't have long to wait to find out. Be ready, just in case.

His reply and my interspersed comments

Re: A Messianic Jew's interpretation
http://www.geocities.com/bramlett2000/updates/schwartz.html
Here is the info on the 120 Jubilee trumpets...from Bramlett's site.

A Messianic Jew's interpretation

A good friend in the Midwest, Bruce, asked me to relay/post the below message to others for your information and discernment. It is a message to him from his friend, Matt Schwartz, a Messianic Jewish Bible teacher whom he greatly respects....God bless you, Jim
---
To my good friend (Bruce)...Thank you for your insights on the year 2000… You have a passion for this subject- and I respect your continual study regarding the imminent return of Jesus - and when we start counting the last generation.

I am open myself, to hear what the Lord is showing other established five-fold ministries and others called to study this subject, as the Day is drawing near.

It was very interesting - some of your latest insights - I hadn't thought of starting the 50 years from January 1950 when the Jews declared Jerusalem to be their capital - that's a fresh approach. Very interesting I might add.

I had come to the year 2000 from a slightly different perspective - so thank you for your fresh insights, and it was very interesting reading your e mail.

I have a fresh insight the Lord showed me regarding the year 2000. It has to do with the 120 Trumpets.

The Lord showed me this (what I am about to share with you today ) as I was fasting and praying before being the keynote speaker at a pastors conference back in 1988, 12 years ago, in Washington D.C. I was preaching to 2,500 Spirit-filled pastors at the Washington D.C. Sheraton on "The Coming Cloud of Glory."

It was a Saturday afternoon, and I was preparing to preach later that evening and just reading the Word… when the Lord began to show me, by revelation, some wonderful insights into Israel's year of Jubilee, found in detail in Leviticus 23 - and preached by Jesus in Luke 4 - during the Messiahs first sermon in His ministry, in Nazareth.

Jesus called the Jubilee Trumpet "the acceptable year of the Lord" during his sermon in Luke 4, preaching from Isaiah 61 in the synagogue.

***From Marilyn: It doesn't say that "the acceptable year of the Lord" is the JUBILEE TRUMPET in either Lu. 4 or Isa. 61. Lu. 4:16 says, "he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read."

So here is what the Lord showed me back in 1988 regarding the soon coming of the Messiah. It has to do with understanding the 50-year Jubilee trumpet cycles. There have been 119 so far from Adam to 1950, and the last trumpet (the rapture trumpet), will be the 120th and, I might add, THE LAST TRUMPET PAUL REFERS TO IN I CORINTHIANS 15:57....

In 2 Chronicles 2:12-17, when King Solomon dedicated the magnificent Temple in Jerusalem, he assembled 120 High JEWISH priests and they played 120 SPECIAL SILVER trumpets (SILVER TRUMPETS for Jubilee, not rams' horns) unto the Lord. And then the "cloud of glory" was sent by God to the Jewish people - His awesome presence as a cloud of Glory.

*** I find no such mention in II Chron. 2:12-17. II Chron. 5:12-14 says, "an hundred and twenty priests sounding with TRUMPETS:) It came even to pass, as the trumpeters and singers were as one, to make one sound to be heard in praising and thanking the LORD; and when they lifted up their voice with the trumpets and cymbals and instruments of musick, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever: that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the LORD; So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God." I Ki. 6:37,38 says, " In the fourth year was the foundation of the house of the LORD laid, in the month Zif: And in the eleventh year, in the month BUL, WHICH IS THE EIGHTH MONTH, WAS THE HOUSE FINISHED throughout all the parts thereof, and according to all the fashion of it. So was he seven years in building it."

***Why are these said to be SILVER trumpets? and why are they said to be JUBILEE trumpets in the eighth month of BUL (Cheshvan)? The only reference to silver trumpets that I know of is Nu. 10:2: "Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps." I think the first of these is sounded at the Pre-Trib Rapture, and the "last trump" is sounded at the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

Then we fast forward to Jerusalem and the day of Pentecost in Acts 2:1-22. How many were gathered in the upper room for 10 days, fasting and praying and seeking the Lord? That's right: 120 saints. And then "The Spirit of Glory" was sent by God from Heaven…The Holy Spirit was poured out UPON THE 120 IN THE UPPER ROOM and they spoke in tongues and began to prophecy. (By the way, this was the 80th JUBILEE YEAR WHEN THIS HAPPENED - 80 Old Testament Jubilee trumpets, and (there have been) another 39 since Jesus made the New Covenant at the Passover dinner, 2000 years ago.

So let's review this concept so far:

120 Jewish high priests under Solomon and God sends "The Cloud of Glory"
120 Jewish saints on the day of Pentecost and God sends "the Spirit of Glory."
120 (50-year Jubilees from Adam to the year 2000 ) and we should look for the return of the bridegroom, called "The King of Glory." In fact, Psalm 24 is all about Jesus being our King of Glory.

So, imagine 50 years after Adam's fall in the Garden might have been the day of Israel's first Jubilee trumpet, when God walked in the garden and cut a blood covenant for mankind (including Adam and Eve).

We know the rapture is heralded by the blowing of the Rosh Hashana trumpet and that ties in with the concept of Jubilee. Every 50 years a trumpet sounds bringing release to all captives. In fact, in both rapture passages, I Thessalonians 4:16, and 1 Corinthians 15:57, Paul makes it clear to both the Thessalonians and the Corinthians that the Lord Himself shall descend from Heaven with a shout (all Jewish weddings the Bridegroom was preceded by a "shout"), and the sound of the trumpet. And in 1 Corinthians 15:57, Paul adds the phrase "the last trump."

So it gets even better, Bruce. We know that the Lord is sounding the trumpet for His Bride to be called home, and that it will be the Rosh HASHANA trumpet, Israel's fifth feast, and the next on God's calendar to be fulfilled, and again, that in I Corinthians 15:57, Paul adds the phrase "the last trumpet "

Now this is the last trumpet for many reasons. It's the last trumpet in the age of grace, the last call, the last act of the Holy Spirit, the last chance, before the 7-year tribulation.

***I think the first trump sounds at the Pre-Trib Rapture, and the "last trump" sounds at the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

What's really exciting is that when Israel became a nation, as you so correctly have already shown, in 1948, we passed the last mile marker on God's highway, before the rapture trumpet (which will in fact will be the 120th Jubilee trumpet - God sounded the first Jubilee in the garden of Eden 50 years after Adams fall into sin - and call to grace - the making of the blood covenant in the garden of Eden - by none other than the Lord Himself.

***I would need to see scripture on that Jubilee 50 years after Adam's fall into sin to believe it.

In 1950 (2 years after the birth of the Fig Tree- Matthew 24:32) - ISRAEL BECOMING A NATION, we celebrated the 119th Jubilee trumpet.

So stay with me, regarding the 120 trumpets and the year 2000…

If God sounded a Jubilee trumpet Himself every 50 years in the Old Testament, there would be the following amount of trumpets sounded so far:

Old Testament, Adam to Jesus, 4000 years, 80 Jubilee Trumpets.

Jesus to the year 1950 (Israel's first Jubilee), 39 Jubilee Trumpets.

In the New Testament period and it gets even better: Jesus shed his blood - 39 stripes under Pontius Pilate There are 39 books in the New Testament from Matthew to Revelation, 39 medical diseases, and 39 Jubilee Trumpets, from Jesus to 1950.

Total Jubilee cycles so far: 119. Trumpets so far: The year 2000… the 120th Jubilee trumpet will be sounded.

It's very interesting that God seems to have marked his prophetic calendar with the number 120.

He required 120 priests to assemble in the days of Solomon.

***In the month of Cheshvan (Bul).

He required exactly 120 to be in the Upper room - waiting for the Spirit.

***In Sivan, at Pentecost.

And the year 2000 will be the 120th generation since Adam and Eve.

***In 30 AD, Jesus told the Pharisees, "All these things shall come upon this generation" (Mt. 23:36). They did in 70 AD. Thus, a generation is 40 years, just as it was in the wilderness.

It gets even more exciting… 1) 120 Priests (in Jerusalem)--2 CHRON 5:12-17 THE CLOUD OF GLORY
2) 120 Saints (in Jerusalem)--ACTS 2:1-20 THE SPIRIT OF GLORY
3) 120 generations (Jerusalem is again Israel's capital)--THE KING OF GLORY

So God established a pattern in Scripture. The number 120 is very, very special to the Lord. He does something very, very big and very, very exciting with the number 120.

We are the last generation - the 120th generation - every 50 years making a generation since Adam and Eve, and the Rosh HASHANA trumpet will be the 120th Jubilee trumpet and the last trumpet in the age of grace (there are seven trumpets in the Tribulation Period, but they are judgment trumpets, not trumpets every 50 years, as are the special Jubilee trumpets - (which are) trumpets of grace.

So, soon and very soon, we can say along with the Greeks that came to the Temple in the days of the Messiah and said, "SIRS, WE WISH TO SEE JESUS.

And Bruce, I agree that no man knows " the day or the hour" -- but "of the times and seasons, brethren, I wish that you NOT BE IGNORANT." Sincerely your friend. Matt Schwartz ---
***Do you think his theory holds water? I think it has holes in it. However, the number 120 may have a connection to the Rapture for 2 reasons. There were 120 in the upper room at Pentecost, and man was given 120 years in Noah's day (Gen. 6:3). Agape

Incoming email

I decided to check and see (not that it means anything but) 120 days from this years Pentecost is Oct. 8th a Sunday and right before Yom Kippur. Who knows?

My reply

Thanks. How interesting to open email saying this when I just finished answering the above. Oct. 9 starts for the Jews at 6:00 PM on Oct. 8. Agape

Incoming email

Re: the daily sacrifice
If this were, instead, translated "daily devotional," then no temple would be required. There is some evidence to indicate this may actually be the case, if you check Strong's. Therefore, if the Jews are prevented from daily prayers at the wailing wall, that could well mark the midpoint of the trib.

My reply

Dan. 8:13,14 in the Septuagint (LXX) says, "How long shall the vision continue, even the REMOVAL OF THE SACRIFICE, and the bringing in of the SIN OF DESOLATION; and how long shall the SANCTUARY and host be trampled? And he said to him, Evening and morning there shall be two thousand and three hundred days; and then the SANCTUARY shall be cleased." I think this is the 1260 days of Rev. 13:5, from the beginning of the Tribulation to the placing of the ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE when the False Prophet takes over Mid-Trib and "sitteth IN THE TEMPLE OF GOD, shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4).

Dan. 12:11 (KJV) mentions "the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the ABOMINATION THAT MAKETH DESOLATE set up."

Mt. 24:15 mentions THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION that stands "IN THE HOLY PLACE." I think this is an idol set up in the temple Mid-Trib. Both the False Prophet and the idol desecrate the temple and cause the "REMOVAL OF THE SACRIFICE." Agape

Incoming email plus my interspersed comments

Re: some thoughts on the trib and the rapture
I wrote to you earlier about this, but wanted to work through all the logical possiblities. Please help me if I have missed anything or if you can think of any other possibilities:

It is now less than 7 years until the feast of Trumpets, 2007. 2007 would seem to be about as late as the trib could END, if the second coming is 40 years after Israel grew leaves.

***From Marilyn: Not only that, but 5768 is a Jewish Leap Year. They have a leap year about every 3rd year. We can tell from Eze. 39:12 that there are 7 months between Tishri 1 (the catastrophe on the Day of God's Wrath) and the following Nisan 1, when I think Christ will return in glory (Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3).

Some thoughts:
Has the trib started and we don't know it? (seems unlikely as no witnesses, no temple,etc.) One or two respected writers think that it has, and these witnesses, etc. will be coming soon. This would imply a mid trib rapture. I know Lu 21:36 argues against this.

***I don't think the Tribulation has begun. I think the Pre-Trib Rapture will precede the appearance of the 2 witnesses as the Tribulation begins. It will also precede the crowning of the 10 kings (Rev. 17:12,15).

Is there a mid trib and not a pre trib rapture, as we will soon pass the point in time which is 7 years before 2007. In this case, perhaps 3.5 years from the Wye agreement is the rapture, or the spring of 2002. (It would make it midtrib from now, or pretrib if the trib is 3.5 years.) Seems unlikely.

***I think the only ones raptured in Mid-Trib are the 2 witnesses. The martyrs are given white robes, but they still have to wait. Don't forget that the 7 years are shortened for the elect's sake (Mt. 24:22).

Is the trib less than 7 years in length, for example, do the 1260 and 1290 time periods run concurrently? Is this remotely possible? Perhaps the days are shortened even shorter than 2520. Perhaps the duration of each day is shortened. I have never been completely clear on this...

***I think Dan. 8:14's 2300 days gives us the time when the Jews can sacrifice (1260 days) plus the time that they can't (1040 days) because the False Prophet desecrates the temple Mid-Trib. There are 2 beasts (the Beast and False Prophet) that rule during the Tribulation. The 1st beast rules during the first 1260 days (Rev. 13:5). The 2nd beast rules during the last 1040 days (2300 - 1260 = 1040), for he is deposed by the catastrophe. I don't think the length of the days are shortened.

Could "this generation not pass" mean 70 years per generation not 40, meaning a lifespan and not a generation? Seems unlikely, as it other Biblical references, it clearly means 40.

***Especially since on top of the 40 years in the wilderness while one generation died off, Jesus told the Pharisees in 30 AD (Mt. 23:36), "All these things shall come upon this generation." They did, 40 years later, in 70 AD.

Is Israel growing leaves to be in the future? At the second coming, Israel will expand to include all Biblical lands. Between then and now, it seems extremely unlikely, as the arabs will make sure Israel grows no more leaves!

***No matter what happens after Israel grew leaves in the Six-Day War, that was the first time they grew like that. I believe that parable was fulfilled then.

Is the rapture to be between now and next spring? This would not violate any scriptural prophecy, and certainly would maximize the soul harvest by waiting a few more months. God's priority of course is to maximize His soul harvest. This seems the most likely to me, and all other logical possibilities seem less likely.

I can't think of any other logical possibilities, can you?

***If we get by the fall feasts and Cheshvan 17, when Noah was shut in the Ark, I think Ascension Day in the spring sounds likely.

Or is this all to be fulfilled in some other way which we dont understand? If we have "been told all things," we should be able to figure it out, but it sure is difficult! What do you think?

***I think we had better make sure we stay ready at all times. The Tribulation seems about ready to pop. It looks like we are right on schedule. Agape

Incoming email

Re: BIRTHDAY OF JESUS
...there is good scriptural support (especially from Ezekiel 29:17,21) to believe that Christ was born on Tishri 1. If this is true then it only makes sense by backing up nine months (or more precisely 280 days) that Christ was supernaturally conceived in Mary on or about December 25th. Therefor the world is actually celebrating the anniversary of his divine conception rather than his birth. Do you know how modern traditions arrived at December 25? I think I read somewhere that its actually of pagan origin and for an unrelated reason. If that's true its neat that December 25th is also TRULY an appropriate day to celebrate anyway! In Christ.

My reply

It is according to what "Gregorian" day Tishri 1 would have fallen on in BC 5. If it was Sept. 8, and we back up 280 days, we arrive at Dec. 4, BC 6.

Dec. 25 was celebrated as the birthday of Tammuz, Satan's counterfeit, in the Mystery Religion of Babylon. Agape

Incoming email

I have written you only one time before....I still continue to read your pros and cons every morning before I begin work. God Bless you for your tireless energy and patience. I am sending you a news brief that I just read. Thought you might find it interesting. It never fails to amuse me when scientists find themselves in positions that make them completely rethink everything that they consider gospel. If they would just use those magnificent minds, and read the gospel that they were freely given, I am pretty sure that we would all be in a much better place already. Continue watching and waiting. I hope to meet you some day.
---
18 Planet-Like Objects Found Far From Stars, by Robert Lee Hotz Los Angeles Times, 10/06/00

Peering into the isolated reaches of space, an international team of astronomers has discovered 18 planet-like objects far from any sustaining star, where no planets should be.

The finding is certain to upset current theories of how planetary bodies form, several experts said....

These celestial free agents, discovered in the belt of the constellation Orion, also are considerably younger than anyone would have predicted, the team of Spanish, American and German astronomers said, in research made public today in Science....

Until now, researchers had discovered more than 50 planets beyond the rim of our own solar system, all in orbit around distant stars. All of them, however, are thought to have formed slowly, over tens of millions of years, as gas and dust in the disc swirling around a star condensed and clumped together.

But these 18 dim, reddish rogues took shape under dramatically different circumstances, said lead researcher Maria Rosa Zapatero Osorio of the Instituto de Astrofisica de Canarias in Tenerife, Spain, who is working at Caltech.

They are not orbiting in a system with a central star like our sun--generally believed to be a prerequisite for planet formation. Moreover, they must have formed very quickly, because they are part of a star cluster, called Sigma Orionis, that is no more than 5 million years old, a fraction of the age of our own sun.

...the planet-like bodies...are about 1,200 light years away...

Each is between five and 15 times as large as Saturn or Jupiter, much smaller than the darkest, coolest and smallest sort of star, which is known as a brown dwarf.

"Nobody has found this before," Osorio said. "This is very important. These objects form frequently, very easily in nature. The formation of young, free-floating planetary-mass objects like these is difficult to explain by our current models of how planets form."...

While astronomers do not dispute the discovery itself, some researchers already are arguing about just what to call these newly discovered "free-floaters." The debate reflects a more fundamental uncertainty over what precisely constitutes a planet.

"Our objects are not orbiting any star, so they break part of the traditional planet definition; yet they are similar to planets we know," Osorio said.

Several researchers suggested that, because they do not orbit a star and may not have formed in a conventional planetary system, these objects should be given a new, more precise name that properly reflects their unusual nativity. Astrophysicist Alan Boss, of the Carnegie Institution in Washington, D.C., said: "Nature is throwing us a curveball."...

"Our conception of galaxies has changed," Osorio said. "In just a few years, we have moved from our certain knowledge of just nine planets around our sun to knowing there are many planets around many suns and, now, these free-floating bodies. The stars are not alone."

Incoming email

...Food for thought. (I guess I'm not a pre-tribber, but I wish I were!!)

My reply

I wish you were a pre-tribber too. I assume that you believe I Thess. 4. In v. 1, Paul said, "we BESEECH you, brethren (believers), and EXHORT you by the Lord Jesus...ye ought to walk and to please God." It is of supreme importance here in the end of this age, for we must be accounted worthy or we won't escape ALL the things that will take place during the Tribulation. Lu. 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and PRAY always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

In II Peter 1:4-11, Peter gave us a list of things to add to our faith, "that by these ye might be PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE (the Spirit of Christ, Rom. 8:9,10; I Peter 1:11), having escaped the corruption that is in the world. We are to add to our faith virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and "charity" (God's agape love). " For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind (a Laodicean, Rev. 3:17), and CANNOT SEE AFAR OFF (Heaven), and hath forgotten that he was purged from his OLD sins (when he accepted Christ). Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your CALLING and ELECTION sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an ENTRANCE (i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture) shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." We need to be filled with the Holy Spirit of Christ to be sure that we will be accounted worthy to escape all the Tribulation and gain an entrance into Heaven.

In I Thess 4:13-18, Paul said, "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren (believers, concerning them which are asleep (the dead in Christ), that ye sorrow not, even as others (unbelievers) which have no hope (we have the 'blessed hope,' (Tit. 2:13). For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent (Old English for precede) them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up (harpazo in Greek, rapiemir in Latin, raptured in English) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

This raptured group is caught up to meet Jesus in the air and then is taken to "HIS PLACE" in the heavens. In Jn. 14:2-4, Jesus said, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare A PLACE for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and RECEIVE YOU UNTO MYSELF (the Rapture); that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know (i.e., Heaven is visible to the naked eye and was known in 30 AD)."

Paul knew that he would be one of those who will be resurrected and caught up to Heaven in the Rapture. He said, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith" (II Tim. 4:7). He is one of the 24 elders of Rev. 4:1 that are caught up to the "third heaven", "paradise," where Paul was previously caught up to when he heard "unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter" (II Cor. 12:2-4). John is also one of the 24 elders that are to be caught up to Heaven when the Lord says, "Come up hither" (Rev. 4:1).

Right after John hears the "Come up hither" that calls the elders to Heaven in Rev. 4:1, we see all 24 elders sitting on their thrones around the throne of God. V. 4 says, "round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders (the 12 patriarchs of Israel and the 12 apostles) sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

The elders are our Representatives in the government of God, the "kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." They present the "prayers of saints" to Christ in Rev. 5:8. These prayers of saints include those mentioned by Jesus in Lu. 21:36: "Watch ye therefore, and PRAY always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." In Rev. 5:9,10, these saints "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" are seen before the Son of man, singing the "new song" and being made "kings and priests" in his government.

These saints "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" are in Heaven with Jesus when he is given the "book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals." The Tribulation begins when the 1st seal is broken on this Title Deed of the Earth. Therefore, this group of saints that are caught up to Heaven with John, Paul and the other 22 elders when they hear Jesus say "Come up hither" cannot be part of the Tribulation, which comes "hereafter" the Rapture (Rev. 4:1). They are with Christ in Heaven in Rev. 5:9, BEFORE he breaks the 1st seal in Rev. 6:1. They are caught up at the FIRST "trumpet" call of Christ (Rev. 1:10; 4:1), the first "trump of God" (II Thess. 4:16).

This Pre-Trib Rapture is as the days of Noah. No fire fell the day he went into the Ark and the Lord closed the door, only water, which is a symbol of the Spirit of Christ. This group of wise virgins (Mt. 25:1f) seen in Heaven before the Tribulation is not caught up when there is a firefall. They are the Bride of Christ. They go with the Bridegroom when he comes for them, because they are "accounted worthy" (Lu. 21:36).

There is a 2nd Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, at the "last trump" (I Cor. 15:51,52), for the Tribulation saints. Their Rapture is as the days of Lot. Lu. 17:29 says, "the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all." The 2nd Rapture is on the Day of God's wrath, just prior to the firefall when the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5; Eze. 25:16; Job 20:23; Amos 8:9; Psa. 91:6). Agape

   Pro and Con 611   Or Return   Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@pe.net


Send me e-mail now


8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110


© 1996-2000, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 10-8-00