Pro and Con 618

Posted 10-22-00

Pentagon launches ‘smart card’ ID
REUTERS. WASHINGTON, 10-11 — The U.S. Defense Department rolled out a high-tech ID badge designed to control access to its buildings and computer networks as a prelude to a wider data-storage role.
ActivCard (ACTI.O), a Fremont, Ca., company founded in France, said its software would be the foundation for issuing 4.3 million $8 badges to department personnel worldwide.
The new ID is based on “smart card” technology that stores and processes information on a microprocessor chip...
The target date for completion of the initial issuance is the end of September 2002.
It will be the standard ID for about four million people, including active duty military, selected reserve forces, civilian employees of the Pentagon and eligible contractors, the Pentagon said.
10-18-00. Clinton brokers peace deal, but no one will sign
Article by Anton La Guardia in Sharm el-Sheikh
...Mr Clinton failed to get the two sides even to sign an agreement, and had to make do with issuing a "presidential statement" on the understandings....

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Note toward the bottom of article about the VERY unusual RAINS this week in Israel.
Ha’Aretz, 10/16/00. Unseasonable Weather to Continue Meteorologists report that unseasonable rains seen throughout Israel, accompanied by low temperatures, are expected to stay around for a day or two. There were thunderstorms on Sunday (15th) On Saturday (14th), the first day of the week long Sukkot holiday, Israelis were taken by surprise when the skies turned gray and thunder and lightening signaled a storm was approaching. In some of the country, heavy rains lasted for over an hour. Generally the rains do not begin until the holiday is over. In fact on the last day of Sukkot, "rain prayers" are usually offered up. Highway 40 from Mitzpeh Ramon to Eilat, was closed to traffic on Sunday (15th) after large amounts of sand from one of the mountains collapsed onto the road. The area was flooded and the road blocked. Police diverted the traffic to the Arava road. Traffic police warned that if the flooding continues, the Faran river could soon overflow.

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Kindly assist me with the following verses:

#1. Matthew Chapter 1 verse 17, speaks of 14 generations after a certain period. What would be the Gregorian year corresponding with 14 generations after the birth of Jesus Christ?

#2. Matthew 24 verse 28, how do you understand this verse, it was so strong in my spirit this Monday but I failed to understand what it is exactly telling us. God bless you.

My reply

#1 (14 x 40 = 560) (560 + 30 AD = 590 AD)

#2 Mt. 24:28 says, "For wheresoever the carcase (lit., body, i.e., the Body of Christ) is (in Heaven), there will the EAGLES (high flying Tribulation saints) be gathered together."

It is talking about the 2nd Rapture. The Bride of Christ was taken to Heaven at the Pre-Trib Rapture. Now another group, the Tribulation saints, will join them in Heaven at the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Lu. 17:37 says, "Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the BODY (Body of Christ) is, thither will the EAGLES be gathered together."

The symbol of the eagles is made clear in Isa. 40:31: "THEY THAT WAIT UPON THE LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings AS EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."

Ex. 19:14 also helps us understand the symbolism. It says, "Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on EAGLE'S WINGS, and BROUGHT YOU UNTO MYSELF." Agape

My reply to an article on 5doves site
Mark Copfer (17 Oct. - Re: The rapture - On Friday?

> > I do not feel that it (the Rapture) could occur on any Jewish Feast anymore, since Rosh Hashana has come and gone, and now believing that the Jewish Festivals are for the Jews and Israel only....The bottom line, IMHO, is that there will be no rapture during a celebrated Jewish Festival.

For me, I can't rule out the Jewish Feasts, because Jesus has already fulfilled 4 of the 7 feasts for the sake of the church as well as for the Jews. We can't say that the Crucifixion, Resurrection and descent of the indwelling Spirit of Christ was just for the Jews. Neither is Scripture just for the Jews. Israel's history teaches us many things. I Cor. 10:11 says, "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for OUR admonition, UPON WHOM THE ENDS OF THE WORLD (tele ton aionon, ends of the ages) ARE COME."

The Bible is a Jewish book. Most of the prophets were Jews. Jesus was a Jew. The apostles, including Paul, were Jews. The first Christians were Jews. Yet, Scripture was written for us too. Israel was chosen to bring the gospel to the world, and Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. In II Tim. 3:16, Paul said, "ALL scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness."

> > Im also very confused with Lyn Mize post on 2 Raptures. I cant find any place in my KJV bible that tells us that there is "2" Catching away of believers, or 2 Resurrections of the dead. Not counting when Christ arose on the 3rd day of course.

I can clearly see 2 Raptures. The 1st is when "THE TRUMP OF GOD" sounds the 1st time (I Thess. 4:16). The 2nd is when "THE LAST TRUMP" of God sounds (I Cor. 15:52). The 1st group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9 before the 1st seal of the Title Deed to the Earth is broken in Rev. 6. These "saints" are "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Rev. 5:8,9). The 2nd group are seen before the throne in Heaven between the breaking of the 6th seal (Rev. 6:12) and the breaking of the 7th seal (Rev. 8). Rev. 7:9,14 says, "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands...These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

The two trumpet types are found in Nu. 10:2-4. It says, "the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (both, i.e., at the 2nd Rapture), ALL (as in I Cor. 15:51) the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation (i.e., when the Tribulation saints are caught up, the whole Body of Christ will be in Heaven). And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes (i.e., the 24 elders, Rev. 4:4), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee." When the elders (12 patriarchs of Israel and 12 apostles) are raptured, we will be among them.

The Lord has worded Scripture very carefully. When the 1st "trump of God" sounds, the 1st Rapture takes place. Both trumpets sound at the "last trump." Those already in Heaven are gathered to the "general assembly" (Heb. 12:23) from one end of Heaven to the other. At the same time, the 2nd Rapture gathers the Tribulation saints up at "the last trump." Mk. 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN" (those caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture).

The 1st Resurrection is in ranks. Christ, the seed, the head of the Body of Christ, was raised 1st. Then the rest of the firstfruit sheaf came out of their graves (Mt. 27:52) and were taken to Heaven. The Bride group will be next. The Tribulation saints will be last. I Cor. 15:22:23 says, "in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

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Re: The Joy of studying the Bible
Well, I am sitting here in my study, and watching CNN and MSNBC report on what I see is the coming fulfillments of 1Thess 5:3, Zech 12:2, Psalm 83, Heb 2:10, and Isaiah 51.

I am taking a little side trip today to discuss one of the two Bible teachings I really enjoy, I will talk about the Festival of Sukkot, Shemini Atzeret, Simchat Torah, and how they relate to the Spirit Filled Christian in the Dispensation of Grace, (my other favorite is the First Temple, the Tabernacle in the wilderness).

Sukkot starts out with the seven days from Tishri 15-21. The eighth day, Tishri 22, begins Shemini Atzeret and Simchat Torah. This year, Sukkot began on the eve of the 13th of October. Shemini Atzeret begins on the eve of the 20th of October. There are specific days throughout, such as the first two days as Yom Tov (a festival), Choi Hamoed on the third to seventh days, and Hoshana Rabba on the seventh day, where willow branches are beaten on the floor, as the bimah is circled seven times, to "seal G-d's judgement", which was established on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement which this year was on October 9th (Tishri 10). The eighth day is a Solemn Assembly and depending on whether or not one is in Israel, includes the day of celebrating the Torah in Israel, but adds a ninth day in the Diaspora (outside).

Sukkot is a seven day period referred to as "the season of our rejoicing". Sukkot actually refers to the booths or temporary dwellings (Lev 23:42) constructed and lived in. Our Jewish neighbours construct all kinds of Sukkot adjacent to homes, synagogues, and even in a car! These booths commemorate G-d's protection during the 40 years of wandering in the desert after the exodus. A Spirit Filled Christian today lives in a body of flesh, which is the Temple in the Dispensation of Grace. The LORD is our refuge. The protector of our temple (bodies) includes the Holy Spirit, the protector of the Church, as outlined in Ephesians. We can do nothing of ourselves, only through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit can we have our Prayers taken to the Lord who sits at the right hand of the Father. Only with the Holy Spirit can we bear any Fruit of the Spirit of Galatians 5. Five of the seven Churches in Revelation 2 and 3 were told to repent. Repentance is to realize the completely unrighteous flesh we live in can do nothing that is pleasing to God the Father. Repentence teaches us we are all sinners. As Isaiah stated so well, "our righteousness is as filthy rags before the Father". No body of flesh is good, "no not one". The Church today lives in booths of flesh, totally dependent on the Trinity of God, by Baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Sukkot includes the "shaking of the four species" Let's look at them:
1) Etrog or Citron - which is the fruit of a goodly tree. Compare this to the Fruit of the Holy Spirit, Galatians 5. The Etrog also has a unique property, it produces fruit throughout the year. A Christian who does not grieve the Holy Spirit will produce Fruit of the Spirit throughout the year as well.
2)Lulav or Palm Shoot-which is the symbol of Victory. I think of running the race that Paul described, to win Crowns.
3)Hadasim or Myrtle Branches-which are a symbol of immortality. Christians have eternal life in Jesus Christ.
4)Aravot or Willow Branches-which represent dependence on water. These branches begin to wilt soon after they are cut. Christians depend on the Living Water which is Jesus Christ, or they too will wilt and die. In Sukkot, when the willows wilt, pointing downwards around the alter, they are "weeping". Consider the outcome of grieving the Holy Spirit "there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth".

There is a complex study involved in understanding who the "Ushpizin" are. I am only going to touch on it here. Basically it means "guests". Abraham and five other Tzadikim are included. What is important for us to understand there is an ORDER of the guest's arrival. For Christians, Jesus Christ is the Firstfruits of Ressurection, and there are ranks, ie- the TWO Raptures in ressurection. The first arrive in Heaven in Rev 5:9 from 1Thess 4:17, and the second arrive in Heaven in Rev 7:9 from 1Cor 15:52. (Note that even though the 144,000 of the Tribes of Israel arrive after the First Rapture, they are the Bride as well). The entire group is collectively called the blessed of the first ressurection, which causes all kinds of confusion to those that do not see the TWO Raptures!

There is a very interesting discussion of the EXTREME JOY of a WEDDING during Sukkot. Again there is an enormous discussion here, I will pick out the gems. Rabbis have said the greatest "simchahs" (LARGE WEDDINGS) occurred before the Temple in Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD. Again there is an enormous amount of material here, and I encourage others to dig into this. When you do, you will see the correlations to the Marriage of the Lamb to the Church. The festival of Sukkot commemorates the CLOUDS of the Shekinah Glory that surrounded the Jewish People after the exodus. (Clouds of the Pre-Trib Rapture of 1Thess 4:17)

There is a direct relation to Repentance. After the sin of the golden calf, the clouds of glory dissapeared. On the day after Yom Kippur Moses had people bring materials for the building of the Mishkan. When work began on the 15th of Tishri the clouds of glory returned. There is reason to believe that this is the Simcha of Sukkot, the return of the Shekinah Glory. Today, each year their is the introspective month of Elul and then the TEN days of repentance, which brings us to Succos. THROUGH REPENTANCE the CLOUDS of GLORY return. Consider that five of the seven Churches of Revelation are told to REPENT. I see this as a direct correlation to the Church of Philadelphia and Smyrna who will meet the LORD in the CLOUDS. Repentance drew them to the Glory of God.

Now another startling parallel. Many times it is written in the Torah that if the Jewish People sin, they will be expelled from the Land of Israel. The laws of Succos state that if heavy rain falls, the Jewish People have not followed Gods' ways, and he brings rain, so they won't be able to perform the Mitzvah. The analogy is a servant who comes to pour a drink for his master, and the master throws the drink into the servant's face. When the first water of Noah's flood came down, it came down as a light rain. This was to give that wicked generation a chance to REPENT. In Hebrew, "ark" and "word" are synonymous. The Arks dimensions were 30 x 300 x 50. These numbers correspond to the Hebrew letters "lamed shin noon" which spell "lashon" - TONGUE. The true ark that saves are the WORDS OF PRAYER. This saved Noah, and this saves us. One must merit the opportunity of serving the master. Sin is the barrier. Repentance is the key to the mitzvah! In the Jewish custom, the teshuva (repentance) creates a NEW person, even though the books of judgement are sealed on Yom Kippur. All men are sinners, baptism into the Church by the Holy Spirit creates a NEW person, even though the disobedience of Adam sealed man's fate as a sinner. Once again, remember 5 of the 7 Churches in Rev 2,3 are told to REPENT. Can anyone out there confirm that there was heavy rain possibly at the beginning of Sukkot? I wonder if we are seeing an indication of the coming Tribulation NOW?

I had a dream on September 29th that my boy (who can not say Chodesh), said Chodesh. The Torah began with the creation of the world rather than the first mitzvah, kiddush hachodesh the santification of the NEW MOON (Chodesh). Could this be more indication of the coming Tribulation, I think so!

The eighth day is Shemini Atzeret and Simchat Torah, if the Jewish Person is in Israel. I will discuss it in this definition. The Torah says "On the first day it shall be a day of rest and on the eighth day it shall be a day of rest" The mitzvahs of Sukkot last seven days (not eight). It would appear that the first seven days point to the eighth day in the sense that the eighth is spiritual rest. On the eighth day there is no more sitting in the Sukkot. (Are Christians to be taken out of their body?) There is no shaking of the four species. (Look back at the Christian correlations above again). Just before this eighth day, the bimah is circled seven times.(As when the walls of Jericho fell, the victory was after the seven circles). Victory for a Christian is the blessed hope of being forever with the LORD. Although the activity of the first seven days has passed, there is still the reading of the Torah (Simchat Torah). For a Christian, the WORD is GOD, and the WORD is from everlasting to everlasting, from the Alpha to the Omega, and the WORD is the LORD JESUS CHRIST, in our bodies of flesh and in eternity. The Jewish people celebrate true joy on the eighth day, and certainly a Christian celebrates eternal joy in the LORD for eternity. In 1Kings 3:15 (or 1 Melachim 3:15 in Torah) King Solomon made a festive banquet for all his servants when he realized the Heaven had granted his request for wisdom.

Now for some very relevant things that have happened to me. (Refer to two earlier posts on this site) On October 1, 1999, a Saturday morning, at 1:40 AM in the morning, I saw a brilliant white meteor in the EASTERN sky. That day was Shemini Atzeret/Simchat Torah in Israel. In the ancient and traditional Jewish wedding, when the Bridegroom went to the home of his potential bride, the FATHER would call the bride if HE was impressed. If the Bride accepted, there was a betrothal. For a ONE YEAR period the couple could not see each other alone, and a chaperone always accompanied them. (The Holy Spirit?). During this year, the Bridegroom (Jesus Christ) went to his FATHER'S HOUSE to prepare a place, a chupah,or honeymoon bed. I assume we all know the Scripture will, "in my FATHERS HOUSE there are many mansions . . " and I would say with confidence this represents the RAPTURE. No invitations were sent out for the wedding, because the Bridegroom could ONLY reply "No man knows except my FATHER" (more scripture). So the BRIDE had to be in a state of constant readiness lest the BRIDEGROOMS arrival catch her by suprise. Often she kept a light burning by the window, with an extra jar of oil on hand, lest the BRIDEGROOM come in the night and find her unprepared. (The oil of the HOLY SPIRIT which the foolish virgins lack). When the SON was sent to fetch the BRIDE, a TRUMP sounded, to announce the GROOMS COMING. This coming October 21st is exactly ONE YEAR after when I saw the meteor. It is also Shemini Atzeret/Simchat Torah. And it is also right AFTER the last quarter moon, AND it is Shabbat. Look at Haggai 2:1, when the Lord Spoke to Haggai. It was Shemini Atzeret/Simchat Torah. I am NOT saying I am Haggai or a prophet. What I am saying is there is a scriptural tie in that is too important to ignore.

Here is the most interesting news of all. On December 4, 1999, (Chanukkah when the Menorah burned miraculously), I was told "you and your household are Redeemed" and GIVEN FIRST KINGS 3:5 AS CONFIRMATION! Refer to the above regarding the festive banquet. This passage is the CONCLUSION to the dream in which Solomon was granted wisdom. I want to stress emphatically that I had never read 1KINGS 3 EVER IN MY LIFE before this dream I had.

The conclusion I draw from all of this is that the year where the BRIDEGROOM goes to prepare a place expires at the end of this Saturday October 21st. The Trump of GOD can sound anytime after this to signal the wedding. (1Thess 4:17). I can say with great conviction we had better be looking fervently for the LORD from this day forward if we are not already. We had better be SURE to keep our lamps filled with OIL of the Holy Spirit. Am I predicting a Pre-Trib Rapture date? Actually you may convict me of this, because I have great zeal for the coming of the LORD. But I am not prophesizing this. I am nothing more than a bondslave of Jesus Christ. Agape to all...

My reply

Thanks for this information.

> > The true ark that saves are the WORDS OF PRAYER

It goes beyond this, which I know you realize. The Ark represents Christ. We are in Christ as Noah was in the Ark. Agape

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the rapture will not happen in even in the next five years. the bible clearly states that we are going through the tribulation. the bible also makes no mention of a 'rapture' but of the resurrection of the dead. of which there are 2: one for the just and one for the unjust. two different resurrection at two different times. i believe your number system is faulty. and god surely has not told you these things.

My reply

We will see. I happen to take the Lord at his word. Rev. 3:10 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation (PEIRASMOS, TRIAL), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth." Lu. 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Mt. 6:13 says, "And lead us NOT into temptation (PEIRASMOS, TRIAL), but DELIVER US from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen."

II Thess. 3:16-18 says, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP (Greek: harpazo; Latin: rapiemir; English: Raptured) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Your words are not comforting. God's word is very comforting.

II Cor. 12:2-4 says, "I knew a man (it is Paul himself, v. 7) in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one CAUGHT UP (Greek: harpazo; Latin: rapiemir; English: Raptured) TO THE THIRD HEAVEN. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

Jesus' "COME UP HITHER" of Rev. 4:1 is explained in Rev. 11:12. It says, "they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, COME UP HITHER. And they ASCENDED UP TO HEAVEN; and their enemies beheld them."

John is one of the 24 elders. When he is raptured, the Bride group will be raptured. They are seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. There are saints "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." They are in Heaven before the 1st seal is opened in Rev. 6.

Get ready. Use I John 1:9. The wise virgins go with the Bridegroom when he comes. They have enough oil of the Holy Spirit. The foolish virgins are left behind to go through the Tribulation. They do not have enough oil in their vessels (i.e., bodies). They will be caught up in the 2nd Rapture. They are seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:14, before the 7th seal is opened in Rev. 8. By that time, they will "have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

There are ranks in the first resurrection. I Cor. 15:23 says, "But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming." Christ is the head of the Body of Christ. He is the seed. The saints that were raised after Christ on Resurrection Day were the rest of the firstfruits sheaf. We are next, at the 1st trump, then at the "last trump," (I Cor. 15:52) the Tribulation saints will be caught up. Agape

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Text of the "Jerusalem Documentary," the biblically historic liberation of Jerusalem according to Luke 21:24.
This is the original recording of the Israeli Defense Forces entering the Old City of Jerusalem, the Temple Mount and the Wailing Wall during the Six Day War in June, 1967.

"The Temple Mount is in our hands, the Temple Mount is in our hands. All forces cease firing! The time is 10:20, the 7th of June. At this moment we are passing through the Lion's Gate. I am at present under the shadow [of the arch] of the gate. And [now] again we are emerging [back] into the sunshine -- Lion's Gate.

"We are in the Old City! We are in the Old City! The soldiers are standing very close to the walls. We are marching now on the Via Dolorosa, Via Dolorosa. Do we understand [the significance of] this? ...the Old City; we are again within the Old City! Al Aksa Mosque. Al Aksa Mosque. Under the ruling of the [British] Mandate we could not enter here. One moment.

Straight ahead is the Kotel [Wailing Wall]. Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah! Hurrah! We don't have words to express our feelings!

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A website where one can find out the number of days from one date to another is at

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Do you know anything about the Palestinians? Are they Arabs? Are they related to jewish people in any meaningful way? Is there any reason to believe that this conflict between the Isreal and the Palistinians has any relavance to any prophecy? Thanks for any insight you can offer.

My reply

They call themselves Arabs. Many are probably descended from Ishmael, Abraham's son by Sarah's handmaid, "an Egyptian, whose name was Hagar" (Gen. 16:1). Verses 11 and 12 say, "call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction. And he will be a wild man; his hand will be against every man, and every man's hand against him; and he shall dwell in the presence of all his brethren."

The friction between the two branches of Abraham's descendants, one from Isaac, the other from Ishmael, seems to be perpetual.

In Gen. 17:19-21, "God said, Sarah thy wife shall bear thee a son indeed; and thou shalt call his name Isaac: and I will establish my covenant with him for an everlasting covenant, and with his seed after him. And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee: Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly; twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation. But my covenant will I establish with Isaac, which Sarah shall bear unto thee at this set time in the next year."

In Gen. 15:13, the Lord "said unto Abram, Know of a surety that thy seed shall be a stranger in a land that is not their's, and shall serve them; and they shall AFFLICT them four hundred years." These years that ended at the Exodus started to be counted when Ishmael was cast out. Agape

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Was Nov. 15th the date that Noe went into the Ark?

'Arafat Will Step Up Violence For November 15' Palestinian Authority head Yasser Arafat is expected to lower the level of violence now before the Arab summit on Saturday. But he will step it up towards a November 15 declaration of a Palestinian state. This is the view of a senior source quoted by Israel Radio.

The source said Arafat was under pressure from the Egyptian president to stop the violence because Hosmi Mubrak fears it could spread to Egypt and other parts of the region. Jerusalem Post

My reply

Yes, Noah loaded the Ark for 7 days. Then he went into the Ark the final time on Cheshvan 17 (Wed., Nov. 15, 2000). The door closed, and the 40 days of rain began. Agape

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