Pro and Con 62, Uploaded 2-8-98

Incoming Email

Marilyn said:
> Singular pronouns are used for a single united entity--not two, as you keep saying. "God
> was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (II Cor. 5:19). Two became one. Jesus
> Christ has two natures, man and God, a unique united being like no other, ever. You have
> the Spirit of God in you by measure, and yet you call yourself "I" and "me".

Thank you for working through these issues. May I this time take it point by point:

Which Bible verse shows that the two (Father and Son) ever speak as a singular "I"? Actually Jesus says "The Father and I" and then describes the two of them as "we " and "us". In which Bible verse does GOD mean Three in One? My point is simply that God is an "I" and Jesus is an "I" and if you say they are both equally God then you have two GODs which is not monotheism.
Jesus of course had the spirit in him, but so do Christians. We are not God. Having the spirit of God in you does not mean you ARE God. Jesus of course was sinless and we are not. But we are to be filled with the spirit.

My reply

I Tim. 3:16;4:10-12 says, "without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory....we trust in the living GOD, WHO IS THE SAVIOUR of all men, specially of those that believe. These things command and teach."

God is the Saviour, and "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (II Cor. 5:19). "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth... Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:10,12).

Here are some pronouns for you to sort out. John 17:21-23 says, "thou Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us...And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: I in them, and thou in me."

His reply

> John 5:44 in the KJV says, "How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and
> seek not the honour that cometh from God only?" This seems to be talking about the honour
> that comes only from God.

> The same verse in Green's Greek-English Interlinear says, "How can you believe, you who
> receive glory from one another, and the glory which is from the only God you do not
> desire?" This seems to be talking about the only one they do not desire. To me, it is
> not the clear reference you want to make it.

You have, with respect, misread the sense of the intelinear. Jesus refers to the Father as "the only God." KJV is wrong with "God only".. Modern versions corrected it. Plummer in his commentary has "the one who alone is God." which is the same in Greek and English as "the only one who is God." If the Father is the "only one who is God," or "the only God" no one else is! Jesus is the Son of God!

My reply you really want to understand or do you just enjoy arguing? You make me repeat things as though you are not listening. If Scripture says something, you can believe it.

Scripture says that the Son is "the brightness of his (God's) glory, and the express image of his person" (Heb. 1:3).

John 1:1,14,17,18 says, "the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us...grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."

I JOHN 1:1,2;5:7 says, "THAT which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, of the Word of life; (For the life was manifested, and we have seen it, and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us...there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and THESE THREE ARE ONE."

The Lord knows this mystery is hard to understand. If your mind cannot grasp this, at least you are not lost. You said, "Jesus is the Son of God!" I praise the Lord that you can see that much. "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: [but] he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life" (I John 2:23-25).

His reply

>God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels

The KJV represents a corruped text here. The better reading is He who was manifested in the flesh.

Jesus, as you pointed out, speaks of the Father as "you" and the Father is obviously not the same person as the Son. But Jesus never claimed to be God. When challenged in John 10 he refuted the suggestion that he was blaspheming by pointing out that human judges were entitled to be called THEOS (god) in Ps 82:6.. How much more then could he call himself rightly "SON of GOD. " Jesus called the Father "the one who alone is God" in John 5:44. If the Father is "the one who alone is God" = "the only one who is God", then no one else is God but the Father. That is exactly what Paul said in I Cor 8:4-6" There is no God but one, there is One God--The FATHER." Jesus by contrast is not the One God but the one Lord Messiah as per Ps 110:1 which is quoted more often than any other verse from the OT. It must be important!

My reply sound like a broken record.

Isa. 45:21-23 says, "Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the LORD (YHVH)? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear."

Remember that no one has seen God at any time. How then will every knee bow down to him? How will they know where he is?

Phil. 2:9-11 explains how this will take place, "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him (Jesus), and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

What I want to emphasize of Isa. 45:21-23 is that the LORD said, "there is no God else beside me; A JUST GOD AND A SAVIOUR; there is none beside me....I am God, and there is none else."

Please give this some thought. The LORD (YHVH) is both God and Saviour. If Jesus had not been "Emmanuel...God with us" (Mt. 1:23), he could not have been Saviour, and you, me and all mankind would be out of luck. Thank God Jesus is "Emmanuel...God with us."

Here our Redeemer is talking. He says that he is YHVH thy God: "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH), THY REDEEMER, the Holy One of Israel: I am the LORD (YHVH) thy God" (Isa. 48:17). Since Jesus is the Redeemer, he is YHVH thy God.

Isa. 44:6 agrees. "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH) the King of Israel, AND HIS REDEEMER the LORD (YHVH) of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

Jesus said he was "the first and the last" (Rev. 22:13). If you can't accept this, I wish you luck; there is no other Redeemer.

"For thy Maker (Christ, Jn. 1:3; Heb. 1:2) is thine husband (the Bridegroom, Mt. 9:15; 25:6); the LORD (YHVH) of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; THE GOD OF THE WHOLE EARTH SHALL HE BE CALLED" (Isa. 54:5). Shalom,

Incoming Email

...your books...the content to me is fascinating in and of itself. It would thrill me to no end to have the Rapture in May. I can't think of a better way to celebrate my 15th anniversary !!!!

I truly hope that your assessment is correct. I personally can't think of a more logical time than in the year of Jubilee - and on the day of Pentecost. There is only one thing that concerns me regarding the actual predicting of a date...that is when Jesus replied that only the Father would know the exact time....even though we would know the season. Is that a logical reason for concern with what you are trying to reveal?

Regardless, me and my house will continue to serve the Lord....I only pray that you are correct. I personally can't wait to be in the actual presence of ABBA, and Jesus. it is too awesome even to imagine.

Please e-mail me if you have the time. I respect your work and am counting the days. I am tired of this earthly shell and lifes circumstances...Thank you for bringing the possibility into my life - at least now I am working more towards the Father's business than I ever have before.

My reply

> I truly hope that your assessment is correct. I personally can't think of a
> more logical time than in the year of Jubilee - and on the day of Pentecost.

I hope so too, but whether it is when I think it is or not, it cannot be far away. The clues do all seem to come together at Jubilee, Pentecost and Sunday four Jewish years (5758, 5759, 5760, 5761, our 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001; Lu. 13:6-9) before the confirming the covenant at the beginning of the Tribulation.

> when Jesus replied that only the Father would know the exact time....even though we would
> know the season. Is that a logical reason for concern with what you are trying to reveal?

No. Mt. 24:36 says, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man." The word "knoweth" is present tense. No man knew on the day Jesus said this. Also, Jesus was not just man, so he himself was excluded. He was fully God and fully man, the unique God/man. Also, Jesus said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you ALL THINGS" (Mk. 13:23). Jesus told the apostles, "It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power (to know), after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you" (Acts 1:7,8).

When the Holy Spirit descended on them on Pentecost, they then had the power to know, but there was one thing missing so that they could not figure it out in their days. It was reserved to us at the end of this age to be able to do it.

The thing that made it possible to figure out dates of end-time events was the Sign of the End of the Age, the Six-Day War of 1967, when Israel grew leaves (Gaza, Sinai, West Bank and Golan Heights) and fulfilled the fig tree parable of Mt. 24:32-34 when she was still young, 19 years old (it could not have been more, 20 and up were counted when they came out of Egypt). It was what we were to watch for. The year 1967 plus one 40-year generation is the end of the age (1967 + 40 = 2007). Once you know that, the rest falls into place easily. Daniel 8:14 shows that in the Tribulation, both the time the Jews sacrifice and the time that they cannot equals 2300 days. Counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning, the exact count of the days from the Feast of Weeks in 2001 to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007 is 2300 days. The parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9 indicates the four Jewish years between the first Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation (1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, inclusive reckoning, from Pentecost 1998 to Pentecost/Feast of Weeks in 2001).

According to Ezek. 29:17,21; Hosea 6:1-3, Christ is to return on Nisan 1. That is the beginning of the Jewish Regnal Year and Sacred Year, the Regnal Year because He is King of kings, the Sacred Year because he is Lord of lords. From the Feast of Trumpets in 2007 to the following Nisan 1 is seven Jewish months because the Jewish 5768 is a leap year. "And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them (those killed in the catastrophe of Tishri 1, 5768), that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD" (Ezek. 39:12). Christ returns in glory at the Second Advent (Mt. 25:31).

To me, the schedule seems now locked into place. There is no other 2300-day period between the Feast of Weeks and the Feast of Trumpets that ends the shortened Tribulation before the 40 years run out. The final year must be a Jewish Leap Year to boot. As far as I can see, this timing cannot be shifted.

> Thank you for bringing the possibility into my life - at least now I am working more
> towards the Father's business than I ever have before.

Great. That is what it is all about. We may only get one chance to be chosen as the Bride of Christ. We just must not muff it.

Incoming Email, Re: Folly; my reply interspersed

> Please can you tell me, If you are wrong about the rapture date, - What will you do and how
> will you restore the peoples faith who follow your teaching and whose faith is broken by
> false prophecy?

Do? keep waiting patiently until it takes place. I tell people I can be wrong, that I am no prophet. This is just the way it looks to me after 37 years of deep study. Each person should look at the scriptures and make up their own mind. And above all, hang on to our faith in Christ no matter what kind of testing comes our way.

> Please can you send me all your money if you really believe what you
> teach, you will not need it any more.

I sincerely believe what I teach, but money, I don't have.

> Have you put your house in order? If you give your house to a
> non-Christian then in four months you will have saved some one from Hell.

The Lord said to occupy until he comes. I intend to do just that.

> I will be happy to talk with you in June and help you to pray a prayer
> of repentence for leading folk astray.

In case I am right, what kind of a prayer will you be saying?

> Please please truly seek God before it is too late and warn people you
> made a mistake, a piece of humble pie never did anyone any harm.

I am a very humble person, but I know the Lord. There is no room in my life for doubt. I know who Jesus Christ is, the Almighty himself (Rev. 1:8).

His reply, Re: Folly

Many thanks for your response to my E-mail, the reply was much appreciated, I am sorry, my E-mail was very tongue in cheek.

> "In case I am right, what kind of a prayer will you be saying?"

If for what ever reason I am left behind, I think my reaction would be:- I would quietly go away for a while and be with God and ask Him, "What is going on Lord, why have I been left behind?" but I think I would know why. "What ever you have for me Lord, your will be done. I would either get myself right with God and pay the consequences, or turn my back on Him forever. I would be facing the biggest challenge of my life.

Only time will tell what my response will be.

> "The Lord said to occupy until he comes,"

I would hope I would also to do the same.

I have read your book, 'The End of the Age' last year and although I have strong feelings about 'Date Setting' there was much I really appreciated about the book.

I had been praying for some time, "Lord I do need clearer scriptural proof of a pre trib Rapture." I was almost heading towards a post trib rapture, which would mean having to accept a non literal interpretation of biblical prophecy.

The prayer was going round my head for some time till I came across your statement on Page 109 - The End of The Age - on the root meaning of the word apostasia - I have followed this through to the older bibles and I now believe I have been supplied with the answer I was asking the Lord for. It has been a real encouragement for me and my friends.

I am sure Antichrist will be in a place of power before the rapture but it will only be after the rapture he will be revealed. I am still sure the restraining force is the Church or should I say the Holy Spirit through the Church. With the Holy Spirit being manifest on earth through the two prophets and the 144000 and those converted during the time of Jacobs trouble, He is not totally gone. So when the church goes the restraining force goes.

The problem with this idea is that the restrainer is male. I have heard that, as a bride, the Church is female but in warfare we are male. This has helped me with my gender identity as a Christian, it gets rather confusing at times being male and part of a bride!

On page 117, you state some people may refuse to come up hither when He calls, this is a frightening thought. Do we have a choice as Christians in whether we go in the Rapture or not? On further reflection the answer must be yes, because God has never removed from us the ability to choose. If our lives are clouded with shame, we will not want to see the Lord even although we may love Him very much. When He calls us, we will hear, our response will be our choice?

Note: I deleted my answers because they were interspersed in this and hard to tell who was talking. I left his in so you could see the change in tone from his previous email.

Incoming Email

I was introduced to your material by a sibling. Wow, did it ever open my eyes. I've finally put my hands on something that was written so that I could understand it and relate it with my life now. I've now shared it with some many people and it has literally been the domino effect. It just keeps going.
Thank you for sharing your gift of knowledge. If you could guide me please I would appreciate it. I struggle with faith and praying. I pray before dinner and at night with my children but when it come to me I really don't have the faith that it will help. How can the Lord love me that much? I've prayed and prayed before and saw no results and never felt what everyone else feels. I need that feeling. I want that feeling. I believe Christ died on the cross for us and I'm forever grateful but I need to feel his presence. I have children and I want them to be raised with his presence also. Can you please guide me?

My reply

> Wow, did it ever open my eyes.

I'm glad it did. Thanks for sharing your experience with me.

> I struggle with faith and praying.

You believe in Christ. I take it that you believe in him because of what Scripture says, therefore you believe the Bible. God has proved it correct by fulfilling his prophecies 100%. When you study it deeply, you know that every word in the original editions is really God breathed. "For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost" (II Peter 1:21).

There is no way man could have produced the Bible. One wrote down things in one century that he did not fully understand. Another wrote down in another century things that he did not fully understand. Yet, when it is all put together, it is one book, planned by a mastermind that understood the end from the beginning. New things are found all the time that tie together from one end of it to the other that no man understood before now. No man could have packed all the information that is there, layer upon layer, into such a small book. No man could have done it in such a way, here a little and there a little, that the prophecies could not be understood by an unbeliever, yet could be understood with the help of the Spirit of God. This was so the prophecies would come true and the unbelievers would come into judgment.

Before the Resurrection, "the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith" (Luke 17:5). We can ask too. Mark 9:23,24 says, "If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief." Did Jesus help his unbelief? Yes! He said, "Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him." What did that do for the man's unbelief? The Lord hears and answers our prayers. Know that.

I John 5:14,15 says, "this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him."

James 1:5 says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord."

Let your faith be strong. Confess all known sins, thereby getting in fellowship with the Lord. Pray and turn your life over to the Lord to guide 100%, holding nothing back. Work in his strength, not your own. Cast all your cares on his strong shoulders. We can't handle it alone. It is too much for us.

Since the Bible is pure truth, you can trust what it says simply because it says it, regardless of feelings. I'm always saying, "If the Bible says it, I believe it." Feelings may come, and they may not. That is no criterion for belief in God's promises. The Bible is. Trust it.

When you believe, Jesus Christ baptizes you with the Holy Spirit, also called the Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ. One of the attributes of God is love. He is also omniscient, omnipresent, an omnipotent, perfect justice, etc., but God is love. If he is in you, his love is in you. Not only does he love you, you love him. You are his adopted son. If he loved you enough to send Christ to die for you, he loves you enough to answer your prayers. If it is "according to his will," know that he will answer. Expect it.

Spend time with Him on your own in private. Pour out your heart to him. Tell him you need his guidance in your life. Believe that what you say is heard. It does not have to go to Heaven. He dwells in you. He knows your innermost thoughts. There is nothing you can hide from him. And know that he will answer.

Romans 8:28 says, "And we KNOW that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called acording to his purpose." He doesn't say that every thing is good, for trials worketh patience, etc., but he will work everything together for good in your life. Trust him to do it, and you will see answers to your prayers. Trust Him, trust the Bible, but don't trust feelings. They can deceive.

   Pro and Con 63   Or Return  Home

Contact me for more information at:

send me e-mail now.

8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110, FAX (909) 697-8960

© 1997 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 2-8-98