Pro and Con 623

Posted 10-24-00

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Re: Spooky Clouds
I found this very intriguing and thought you could intrepret this one for us all.
http://wedg.westhost.com/cgi-bin/last.cgi?d=http://www.discovery.com/news/briefs/20001027/sp_spooky.html
Thanks MUCH!!!

My reply

I'm not taking it as a sign, because I can see arms, faces, etc. in lots of pictures of things in the heavens. Those seem accidental. However, it is spooky looking. Agape

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Re: Why we cannot positively know the year, day, hour of the rapture: Some people tend to get irate and act as though a person is guilty of being a false prophet or guilty of heresy if he/she studies to discern the exact moment of the rapture. Let's think logically why God/Jesus/Holy Spirit didn't tell us exactly. If God knows best, why didn't he tell us. Here's why: The Bride is to be taken out of harm's way. The Bride will be protected from the harm/danger by being removed. What would happen to the Bride right now, before now, and after now, if Jesus said in the New Testament: "Behold, on May 28, 2000, at exactly 12:00 midnight Israeli time, please check a world time schedule for your time, I will remove my Bride from this world. All evil, wicked people should take note that you will have to do all your evil work against my Bride before this date because she won't be there for you to kick around any more." This is why the date is not given in the Bible. You don't tell the enemy when you are going to rescue hostages. The fuzzy non-date is for our protection, that's it. Due to Marilyn's great work we have an idea, but what if Marilyn says it is going to be exactly May 28, 2000, midnight, Israeli time? How many evil people are going to believe her? Some of us can't even get saved family members or friends to think about it. There are six billion people in the world as of last December (saw a newspaper then that said baby no. 6 billion had been born). How much influence does Marilyn have with all the really evil people in six billion that would want to wipe out the Bride of Jesus? Zilch, thank goodness.

Why, then, did Jesus say watch, look up, be aware, study? He wants us to discern the times just as he admonished those in His time for not discerning the time of His arrival as prophesized in the Old Testament and knowing who He was.

You see, this is a war and the Bride will be rescued from the war. The Bride has been given clues in the Bible so we can be prepared and ready to be rescued. Marilyn works with clues. She is a de-coder and tells us what she knows and how it looks to her. There is absolutely nothing wrong with hostages trying to figure out when their saviour is coming to take them out from under the nose of the wicked.

The truly wicked are paying no attention to us, however they would have taken note if the year/month/day was definite in the Bible. Our salvation has depended on the wicked being blind and God has kept them blinded all this time. He is not going to let them know when He is going to take us for that would let the wicked know to attack us before that date and it would let them know when their punishment was going to start. You don't give the enemy your battle plans, it is that simple. We can keep searching and studying and trying to nail down the date for our removal just as any captive would do. Anyone have an extra de-coder ring?

My reply

> > we cannot positively know the year, day, hour of the rapture What of Amos 3:7? It says, "Surely the Lord GOD will do NOTHING, but he REVEALETH HIS SECRET unto his servants the prophets." What of Mk. 13:23? It says, Jesus said,, "But take ye heed: behold, I HAVE foretold you ALL THINGS." What of Lu. 8:17? It says, "NOTHING is secret, that shall not be made manifest; neither any thing hid, that shall not be KNOWN and come abroad." What of Lu. 12:2? It says, "there is NOTHING covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be KNOWN." What of Mk. 4:22? It says, "there is NOTHING hid, which shall not be manifested; neither was any thing kept secret, but that it should COME ABROAD." What of I John 2:18,20,27? It says, "Little children, it is the LAST TIME: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that IT IS THE LAST TIME.... But ye have an unction (anointing) from the Holy One, and ye know ALL THINGS.... the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of ALL THINGS, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children, abide in him; that, WHEN HE SHALL APPEAR, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him AT HIS COMING." What about John 16:13? It says, "when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into ALL TRUTH: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and HE WILL SHOW YOU THINGS TO COME." Even Mt. 24:35,36 only mentions the day and hour, and it is present tense. On that day, no mere MAN knew the day and hour. At the Olivet Discourse, Jesus said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." Do you realize that on that day, Jesus had NOT YET been crucified, resurrected, or ASCENDED to Heaven? Since he had not yet ascended, there would be no one that could tell what day or hour that would be. They didn't know it was going to happen, much less what day or hour it would take place. In Acts 1:7,8, Jesus said, "unto them, It is not for you (the apostles) to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive POWER, AFTER that the Holy Ghost is come upon you" (i.e., after Pentecost, believers have had the power). We just have to watch and see what signs turn up. In Mt. 4:17, after John the Baptist was put in prison, "From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is "AT HAND." It was "at hand" for about 3.5 years. In Rev. 1:3 and 22:10, the Rapture is "AT HAND." It seems possible that the Rapture is also "at hand" for about 3.5 years. The 480th year of the Modern Parallels was 5758 (our 1997/1998). Adding 3 years brings us to 5761, which we are in now. It began Tishri 1 (Sept. 30,2000). Adding another 6 months will bring us to Nisan 1, 5761 (Mar. 25, 2001). The anniversary of Jesus' Ascension Day will probably be Iyar 25 (May 18, 2001). I feel like we have entered the ball park, but don't yet know how many innings will be played before we go home. We are approaching Cheshvan 17 (Nov. 15, 2000) too. That is when Noah (meaning rest) went into the Ark, and the rain (symbol of the Spirit of Christ) came down. Gotta hang in there, in the sieve, that is. No matter how we are shaken about, we are the wheat that stays in the sieve while the chaff is blown away. Agape

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Re: Comment on Parousia
I recently responded to a friend who asked a question about the word Parousia, which is mostly translated coming or advent of the Lord throughout the Word. I had always previously only associated it with the time that Jesus comes with all of His saints at the end of the 7 years of tribulation. But when I looked at it further, it seems to also refer to His appearing in judgment on the day of the Lord. This would indicate that, as the majority of the gathering of the body of Christ occurs in two events, the pre-trib rapture and the pre-wrath rapture, the second coming of the Lord occurs also in two events . . . the coming in judgment on the day of the Lord, where Jesus appears but does not touch down . . . and the coming with all of His saints, where Jesus touches down on the mount of Olives. Read my correspondence to Him and tell me if you agree. Your Brother in Jesus
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(his letter to a friend) I appreciate your openness in your quest for the truth. You remind me so much of me. Your further comments on Parousia got me to thinking. You are right about the advent referring to the coming of the Lord that begins the final thousand years, the "day of the Lord". But I believe that the last thousand years starts on the day the wrath of God falls, 2300 days into the seven year period. That is the day the last seal is broken, ending Satan's lease on the planet. The title deed is now officially turned over and the time of the thousand years where Jesus executes total dominion begins. The wrath of God that falls that day, (the effects of which last another seven months) is the eviction of the poachers off of what is now God's planet for His thousand year day of rest. That is why "that day" is called "the day of the Lord". It is the beginning day of the thousand year "God day". That explains why the definition of Parousia and the verses it is used in, are mixed. Some parts of the definition and some verses refer to the "that day" that the sign of the Son of Man appears and the wrath of God falls and . . . another part of the definition, "arrival", and other verses seem to refer to the time that He lands on earth with all of His saints. 2 Thessalonians 2:1 says, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, . . . The "gathering" of the whole church occurs in two phases, one rapture of the Bride and one rapture of the tribulation saints". Why does Mat. 24 say that "this gospel will go throughout the whole world and then the end will come"? Because the evangelism continues throughout the shortened tribulation until the last saints are raptured. That is when the church age ends and the Millennial "Day of the Lord" begins. It begins on the actual day called "the Day of the Lord". It seems that the first part of that verse, "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ", the advent, also occurs in two phases, . . . the appearing to judge the world and the arrival of Jesus to rule with all His saints. Consider the definition of Parousia
STRONG'S
3952 parousia...from the present participle of 3918; a being near, i.e. advent (often, return; specifically, of Christ to punish Jerusalem, or finally the wicked); (by implication) physically, aspect: KJV-- coming, presence. Notice that Strongs mentions a "being near", "presence" and a "return to punish the wicked". There is a presence when Jesus returns, coming near and the sign of the son of man is seen on the day of the Lord immediately before He punishs the wicked with the pouring out of His wrath. At the same time the definition does include "coming" "physically", so the word could fit phase two, His physical landing on the earth with all the saints. Your second definition that you took from Thayers reveals these two meanings as well. THAYER'S 3952 parousia 1) presence 2) a coming, an arrival, an advent; the future visible return from heaven of Jesus, to raise the dead, to hold the last judgment and set up formally and gloriously the kingdom of God. The part of the definition that refers of His return to "raise the dead and to hold the last judgment" has to refer to the first phase of His return on "the day of the Lord", since the dead are raised on that day of the rapture of the tribulation saints and the beginning of the "judgment", the wrath of God. The definition, according to Thayer, goes on to speak of the second phase of the "parousia", when he "sets up formally and gloriously His kingdom". The verses you gave reflect this as well. Matt 24:3: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming [presence], and of the end of the world (age)? This verse seems to refer to the day of the Lord that is 2300 days after the tribulation starts. The sign of His appearing, or presence or being near . . . is the sign of the son of man referred to in Mat. 24:30 and Rev. 6:14-16. Jesus appears on His throne to the whole earth immediately before He pours out His wrath. The same day the "end of the age" (the Church age) occurs when, on that same day, the rapture of the last of the saints, the tribulation saints takes place. Both of these occur on the "day of the Lord" a full seven months before the coming of Jesus with all of His saints. Matt 24:27: For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming [appearing] of the Son of man be. At the sign of the son of man all will see Him from the east to the west. In context this verse immediately precedes verse referring to the opening of the sixth seal (remember me paralleling these verses in Mat. 24:29-31 with Rev. 6:14-17), the sign of the son of man and the rapture of the tribulation saints on the day of the Lord, seven months before the coming of the Lord with all His saints. Also the reference to lightning seems to fit better with the day of the Lord, which is a day of thick darkness, according to Joel, while the day of the Lords return with His saints occurs on a day when it is light in the evening time (Zech 14:7) Matt 24:37: But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming [appearing] of the Son of man be. In the days of Noah, wrath came after seven days of warning. After the rapture of the Bride and the revealing of the Anti-Christ, there will be seven years of warning . . . before the day of the Lord when, like the days of Noah, the wrath falls worldwide. This cannot correlate with the coming of the Lord with His saints. Matt 24:39: And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming [appearing on the day of the Lord] of the Son of man be. On the day of the Lord the earth will be cleansed of the wicked, just as it did with the flood. 1Thes 2:19: For what is our hope, or joy, or crown of rejoicing? Are not even ye in the presence of our Lord Jesus Christ at his coming? This could refer to the time we are with Him at His coming. But then again it could refer to the "day of the Lord" because it refers to "hope, joy and crown of rejoicing". Both raptures are referred to as "the blessed hope". The crowns will be given on the day of the Lord. The reward of the relationships we have with each other could be revealed at the judgment seat of Christ, which happens on the day of the Lord. 1Thes 3:13: To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming [advent] of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. This is clearly referring to phase two of the advent, the time He comes with all of His saints. II Th 2:8: And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming [advent]: This again seems to refer to the time He comes with all of His saints, for He destroys the False Prophet at Armageddon which occurs right after His return at the end of the seven years. 2 Pet 1:16: For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming [1st advent] of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty. This verse could refer to the first coming of Jesus, or either phase of His second coming. He comes demontrating His power all three times. 2 Pet 3:4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. In context, this seems to refer to phase one of the advent, the time that the wrath of God falls on the day of the Lord. The verses that follow describe the fiery judgment that will be the wrath released on the day of the Lord. I Jn 2:28: And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming [appearing]. This has to refer to the day of the Lord when he appears not only to judge the World, but also to gather the whole body of Christ for the judgment seat of Christ. We would not be ashamed if it were referring to the time that we come with Jesus, for the judgment seat of Christ would already be over. After the judgment seat of Christ, on the day of the Lord, there will be no more shame, shame, tears or sadness for His own church....

My reply

Thanks for the interesting information. Most of what you say, I agree with. I just don't call either of the Raptures a phase of the Second Advent, although they could be. To me, Christ comes twice FOR his saints and once WITH his saints. The 2 comings FOR his saints are the 2 Days of the Son of Man of Lu. 17:22-26. The 2nd one is on the Day of God that begins the millennial Day of the Lord. II Peter 3:22 says, "Looking for and hasting unto the COMING of the DAY OF GOD, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?" Rev. 16:14, says, "For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great DAY OF GOD ALMIGHTY." Therefore, the DAY OF GOD and the DAY OF GOD ALMIGHTY seem to mean the millennial Day of the Lord, of which its COMING, first day, is the Day of God's Wrath. A bit later on, Armageddon takes place. Christ must be on Earth by that time, because it is a battle between Christ plus his army and Satan plus his army. Young's says "parousia" means, "A being alongside, presence." It is translated 22 times as "coming" and only 2 times as "presence," of which both of the latter are talking about Paul's presence. > > In the days of Noah, wrath came after seven days of warning. After the rapture of the Bride and the revealing of the Anti-Christ, there will be seven years of warning I think the days of Noah refer to the Pre-Trib Rapture. The 7 days to load the Ark were peaceful even though busy days. They don't suggest the Tribulation to me. The days of Lot refer to the Pre-Wrath Rapture on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. No fire fell the day the Lord shut the door of the Ark and it started to rain to carry the Ark upward, as the Spirit of Christ will carry us up at the Rapture. Lu. 17:29 says, "But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all." That ties in with the asteroid impacts of Rev. 8:8,10 as the Day of the Lord begins. Mt. 24:39. I think this is the coming of the Lord for the saints caught up in the clouds at the 1st Rapture. This is the first of two DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN (Lu. 17:22-26), one as the days of Noah, the other as the days of Lot. I Thes 2:19. I think Paul will rejoice when he sees his converts in the presence of Christ at the Pre-Trib Rapture. Paul is one of the elders who have crowns of gold on their heads right after the Pre-Trib Rapture (Rev. 4:4). At that point, the Bride group of saints have already been made kings and priests (Rev. 5:10). That sounds like the rest of that group of saints already have the crowns mentioned in Rev. 3:10. 2 Pet 1:16. The First Advent seems most reasonable to me. Verse 15, Peter said, "I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance." In some references in which "parousia" occurs, it is hard to know whether it is referring to his coming at the Rapture or at the Second Advent. Scoffers I hear from usually think there is no Rapture, but worldwide, they might refer to the Second Advent the most. I have tried to pick out verses that it is easy to tell. For the Pre-Trib Rapture, there is I Thess. 4:15-17: "we which are alive and remain unto the coming (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent (Old English for precede) them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." This coming is in the air. II Thess. 2:1 refers to the Pre-Trib Rapture. It says, "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him." James 5:7,8 refers to the Pre-Trib Rapture. It says, "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the (parousia) of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming (parousia) of the Lord draweth nigh" (just as the Rapture is "at hand" in Rev. 1:3 and 22:10). Mt. 24:27-29 refers to the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. This coming is at the Pre-Wrath Rapture. It says, "as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming (parousia) of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase (body, i.e., the Body of Christ) is (in Heaven), there will the eagles (high flying Tribulation saints, Isa. 40:31) be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days (the shortened 1040-day Great Tribulation, Mt. 24:22; Dan. 8:14 [2300 - 1260 = 1040]) shall the sun be DARKENED." This coming is in the air. It is the same day the Sign of the Son of Man of Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f) is seen in the sky. II Peter 3:12 refers to the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. It says, "Looking for and hasting unto the coming (parousia) of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?" I Thess. 3:13 refers to the Second Advent. It says, "To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming (parousia) of our Lord Jesus Christ WITH ALL HIS SAINTS." Zech. 14:5-7 agrees. It says, "the LORD my God shall come, and ALL THE SAINTS WITH THEE, And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be LIGHT." This coming is when Christ sets his feet on the Mt. of Olives. II Thess 2:8 also refers to the Second Advent. It says, "then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming (parousia)." We seem to have 2 comings in the air at the 2 Raptures, and 1 coming to set his feet on Earth. He comes FOR his saints twice and WITH his saints once. At the Second Advent, all saints previously caught up to Heaven in 30 AD and at the 2 Raptures return to Earth with him. Agape

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From: Becky Montgomery: TaraLabradors@webtv.net
Re: The P/C 583
...The rapture lie came into being by a young girl in Scotland named Marg McDonald....a very sick girl who put a couple of scriptures together and came up with this "any moment theory".....some preachers were at her bedside, Darbyists, overheard her "thoughts", which she herself said seemed DARK and EVIL, and those Darbyists took her ideas and spread them like wild fire. Until Hal Lindsey got on board with his Late Great Planet Earth the main line religions had not been penetrated with the lies of Marg......but the flood of lies that will destroy His people (remember He said He would never destroy us by a flood of WATER again......this time Satan has a FLOOD of lies as his tool of destruction) is the lie of the rapture, any moment theory....In His Love, Becky

My reply

I just want you to know that the Rapture was taught long before Margaret MacDonald's time. I have the entire sermon referred to below, both in Latin and in English. In his approx. 1500 word sermon, "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World," Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627 AD) said, "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins." (Alexander, Paul J. "The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition [Berkeley: Univ. of CA Press, 1985] p. 210). Agape

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From: David Parker. Re: RAPTURE / PENTECOST / 2001 Marilyn, your comments on these verses in Isaiah chapter 18 are something that my spirit picked up on. I believe that there was of course the Grain Harvest, of the barley and wheat, and then the Summer Harvest of the remainder of the fruit, etc. A close reading of these verses seem to indicate that the "Rest" is taken DURING the "Heat of the Harvest", i.e. the Summer. Therefore the "pruning" mentioned in verse 5, seems to be JUST BEFORE that time. That is, just before the Summer starts. Reading Matthew 24 and Luke 17 tell me it will be the Same Day, just as in the examples of Lot and Noah.(Notice in these passages that Jesus put EMPHASIS ON THE WORDS...."Likewise and ON THE SAME DAY...") This puts the Rapture on Pentecost 2001----the THIRD DAY since Pentecost 1998. Do you remember all the " 3's " that showed up in the email sent you just after Pentecost of 1998. Remember the little girl who saw the 3 DOORS and said " We opened the First door and nobody was there. We opened the Second door and nobody was there. We opened the Third Door .........AND THERE WAS JESUS !!!" Also, the disciples were tried for 3 hours in the Garden before Judas was Revealed Openly. The ONLY person(s) who are called the "Son of Perdition" is Judas and the Antichrist. Jesus told the disciples, in Mark ch. 14 , "Rise , let us be going.......take your rest.......it is enough ( watching ).." just before the Hour of Temptation. This is the same Hour of Trial to come on "all the earth" mentioned in Revelation 3 and the Hour that the overcomers are promised to be delivered FROM. The antichrist will be revealed immediately after the Rapture, just as Judas was openly revealed immediately after the 3 hours of watching and after the words of Jesus just quoted that I believe in type refer to the Rapture. Also, pro & con # 127 is still "running full bore." Truly we are about to COMPLETE THE THIRD DAY. GLORY. It's been quite a "watch" hasn't it? It's not been easy, but well worth it. God Bless, CAPS 18:3-5 All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a Trumpet, hear ye. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest. For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches.

My reply

Do you think the sprigs could be the wise virgins taken away in the Rapture? and the branches the foolish virgins that are cut off in Mt. 25:1f; Lu. 12:46; Mt. 24:51? Isa. 18:5,6 in the LXX says, "Before the reaping time, when the flower has been completely formed, and the unripe grape has put forth its flower and blossomed, then shall he TAKE AWAY THE LITTLE CLUSTERS with pruning-hooks, and shall take away the small branches, and CUT THEM OFF; and he shall LEAVE THEM together to the birds of the sky, and to the wild beasts of the earth." Ascension Day might fit the time when the unripe grape has flowered as well as Pentecost. > > Reading Matthew 24 and Luke 17 tell me it will be the Same Day, just as in the examples of Lot and Noah. (Notice in these passages that Jesus put EMPHASIS ON THE WORDS...."Likewise and ON THE SAME DAY...") This puts the Rapture on Pentecost 2001----the THIRD DAY since Pentecost 1998. Please look at those passages again. Doing a search for "likewise" and "same day" in my Bible Plus program, I find only these instances in Mt. 24 and Lu. 17 that might apply. Mt. 24:33 says, "So LIKEWISE ye, when ye shall see all these things (modern Israel growing leaves), know that IT IS NEAR, even at the doors." This is in the fig tree parable. Lu. 17:27-30 says, "LIKEWISE also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But THE SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" (the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f). The Pre-Trib Rapture is as the days of Lot. It takes place on the Day of God's Wrath. When it is talking about the days of Noah, I don't find anything about the SAME DAY. That is said about Lot, because his escape typifies the Pre-Wrath Rapture, when fire and brimstone will fall that same day. There seems to be a gap between the 1st Rapture and the Tribulation. In Rev. 17:14, "they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful." showing that the Rapture has already taken place. At the time of the Rapture, the ten kings "have received NO kingdom as yet" (Rev. 17:12). As the Tribulation begins in Rev. 13:1, all 10 kings are crowned. Think about Ascension Day. See if it makes sense. Agape

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