Pro and Con 627

Posted 11-4-00

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Re: Isaiah 18:3-"lifting up an ensign on the mountains"
In a recent P&C you quoted Isaiah18:3, interpreting it as follows: Isa. 18:3-6 says, "ALL YE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD, AND DWELLERS ON THE EARTH, see ye, when he (God) lifteth up an ensign (i.e., One World Government flag) on the mountains (kingdoms); and when HE (God) BLOWETH A TRUMPET, hear ye.

My question is...could God lifting an ensign on the mountains be interpreted as the rapture? Certainly an ensign has been associated with God's people in the Bible. The 12 tribes each had an ensign representing them. I was looking at Is 59:18-20 which says: 18 According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompense to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompense. 19 So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him. 20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.

This seems to be talking prophetically of the day of the Lord. Verse 18 refers to His wrath, or fury poured out on the day of the Lord. In verse 19, the words, "So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun" seem to refer to the sign of the son of man, which occurs on the day of the Lord. Verse 20 seems to refer to Israel finally turning to their messiah when it says, "unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob", which also occurs on the day of the Lord.

In verse 19 when it says, "When the enemy shall come in like a flood", it seems to refer to the Gog-Magog invasion which is in full motion on the day of the Lord. What is intriguing to me is the phrase "the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him". The Hebrew word for "lift standard" is nuwc. It can also be translated, "make to flee away", put to flight, hide, deliver, escape, and vanish away". I could not find any hebrew definition for against him, so I don't know whether there is an alternate definition. But could, considering the time frame that this verse is talking about, this phrase mean that at the time the Gog Magog war is occurring, (when the enemy is coming in like a flood), that the Spirit of God will "put to flight, cause vanish or escape or deliver" those that were against that enemy. I don't know, I just wanted to get your thoughts. If that was the case then the "lifting up of an ensign" in Isaiah 18:3 could also refer to that rapture on the day of the Lord.

Notice too that Isaiah 18:3 says that the ensign will be lifted up on mountains (plural). In Isaiah 2 it says that the New Jerusalem is made up of mountains (plural) with the Lord's house at the top. Isaiah 2:2 says: 2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

So the mountains referred to in Is. 18:3, could very well refer to the New Jerusalem that the tribulation saints will be raptured to. Your brother in Jesus, Daniel

My reply

> > could God lifting an ensign on the mountains be interpreted as the rapture?

Yes. I think you are right. Thanks for sharing your insight. Let's compare scriptures.

Zech. 9:14-16 is talking about the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. It says, "the LORD shall be SEEN OVER THEM (the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f), and his arrow (the asteroid) shall go forth as the lightning: and THE LORD GOD SHALL BLOW THE TRUMPET (the 'last trump,' at the Pre-Wrath Rapture), and shall go with whirlwinds of the south. The LORD of hosts shall defend them (Israel, the ones left on Earth); and they shall devour, and subdue with SLING STONES; and they shall drink, and make a noise as through wine; and they shall be filled like BOWLS (of God's Wrath, Rev. 1:16f), and as the corners of the altar (filled with blood). And the LORD their God shall save them (all Israel, saved in a day) in THAT DAY (1st day of the Millenium) as the flock of HIS PEOPLE: for they shall be as (symbolic language) the stones of a crown (12 tribes, as there are 12 stars in the crown in Rev. 12:1), lifted up as an ensign (nacac, conspicuous as a flag) upon his land (Israel)."

Let's compare that with Isa. 18:3-6. It can be divided into 3 sections. The 1st can apply to the Pre-Trib Rapture. The 2nd definitely applies to the Pre-Wrath Rapture, so it seems to be parenthetic. The 3rd applies to the Pre-Trib Rapture again, strengthening your insight into the meaning of the 1st section.

(1) "ALL YE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD, and dwellers on the earth, SEE ye, when he LIFTETH UP (NASA, arise, raise up, take up, MARRY) an ENSIGN (nec, flag, signal, sign, i.e., the PRE-TRIB RAPTURE of the Bride of Christ) on the mountains (kingdoms); and when HE BLOWETH A TRUMPET (the first 'trump of God' in I Thess. 4:16), HEAR YE."( Heb. 12:25 says, "See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven.")

(2)" For so the LORD said unto me, I will (in the future) take MY REST (the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord), and I will consider in my dwelling place (Heaven) like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the HEAT OF HARVEST (the Pre-Wrath Rapture on the Feast of Trumpets in the SUMMER).

(3) "For AFORE THE HARVEST (before the main harvest, the Pre-Wrath Rapture), when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower (SPRING), he shall both cut off the sprigs (having fruit) with pruning hooks, and TAKE AWAY (at the Pre-Trib Rapture) AND cut down (Lu. 12:46) the branches (having no fruit). They (the foolish Laodicean virgins) shall be LEFT together unto the fowls of the mountains (kingdoms), and to the beasts (the 2 of Rev. 13) of the earth: and the fowls shall SUMMER upon them (following the spring Rapture), and all the beasts of the earth shall WINTER upon them."

Mt. 24:19-22 says, "woe unto THEM (in the Great Tribulation) that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! BUT (indicating a break in thought) pray YE that YOUR (the disciples,' v. 3) FLIGHT (i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture) be NOT IN THE WINTER, NEITHER ON THE SABBATH DAY: For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except THOSE DAYS (the latter 1260 days of the Tribulation) should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened" (to 1040, 2300 - 1260 = 1040, Dan. 8:13,14).

If we count the 40 days from Firstfruits to Ascension Day by Jewish inclusive reckoning, we end up with Fri. May 18, 2001, in the spring. It is the time of green figs and firstripe grapes, as Song of Sol. 2:10-14 suggests. It says, "My beloved spake, and said unto me, RISE UP, MY LOVE, my fair one, and COME AWAY. For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle (dove) is heard in our land; The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. ARISE, MY LOVE, my fair one, and COME AWAY. O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock, in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice."

Psa. 47:5 says, "God is gone up with a shout, the LORD with the sound of A TRUMPET."

Jer. 6:14-19 says, "They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, PEACE, PEACE, WHEN THERE IS NO PEACE. Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination (i.e., the 'abomination of desolation,' Mt. 24:15)? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD. Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Also I set watchmen over you, saying, HEARKEN TO THE SOUND OF THE TRUMPET. But they said, WE WILL NOT HEARKEN. Therefore HEAR, YE NATIONS, and know, O congregation, what is among them. HEAR O EARTH: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it."

I wonder if Arafat will still be headquartered in Gaza on the day the asteroid hits the Mediterranean Sea. Zech. 9:5 says, "Ashkelon shall see it, and fear; Gaza also shall see it, and be very sorrowful, and Ekron; for her expectation shall be ashamed; and the king shall perish from GAZA, and Ashkelon shall not be inhabited."

Isa. 59:19 says, "When (on the Feast of Trumpets, Joel 2:1-3) the enemy shall come in like a flood (Eze. 38), the Spirit of the LORD shall LIFT UP A STANDARD (nuwc, ESCAPE, vanish away, i.e., the Pre-Wrath Rapture) against him." Agape

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Re: Time is short!
Dear Sister in Yeshua; I love reading your articles Pro&Con almost every day. Look forward to every posting! As of 10-29, some of the "discussions" and speculations make my head swim, tho. I am frustrated at the limited news from the Middle East, for it seems that war against Israel is imminent, and could even be nuclear! The rhetoric is getting less and less "politically correct" on both sides, and Iraq is calling for more suicide attacks! Are we all just taking it all so lightly, while we pay attention to all the itsy bitsy teeney weeney details of speculation, the world is about to erupt in war....even possible war on our land, the U.S.? Please comment. Shalom.

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

> > I am frustrated at the limited news from the Middle East

Try Koenig's International News:
Also try Israel Wire:
This is from the latter:
"PA using ambulances to launch attacks...
"2) PíSAGOT Ė On Tuesday night, the Benjamin Regional Council of Písagot came under PA fire several times, with bursts of automatic gunfire being aimed at the community from the PA autonomous cities of el-Bireh/Ramallah. The Office of the IDF Spokesman confirmed that at least one attack was carried out from inside the Ramallah headquarters of the Red Crescent Society. In at least one other attack, shots were fired at Písagot from inside a Red Crescent ambulance as it passed the Jewish community. In both attacks, the IDF did not return fire."

> > could even be nuclear

I don't expect that. The verses some think predict a nuclear holocaust are to me talking about a binary asteroid impact with Earth. Rev. 8:8-11 says, "the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain (one piece of the binary asteroid) BURNING with fire was cast into the sea (the Mediterranean, Zeph. 2:4,5): and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star (aster, star, meteoride or asteroid) from heaven, BURNING as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called Wormwood." The aster will destroy Babylon, in the land of the Chaldeans, which is now Iraq.

When the mountain sized piece hits the Mediterranean Sea, Eze. 38:20 tell us what will happen. It says, "the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake (worldwide earthquake, Rev. 16:18) at my presence (paneh, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f), and the mountains (asteroids) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."

These are God's weapons, not man's. Jer. 50:25 says, "The LORD hath opened HIS ARMOURY, and hath brought forth THE WEAPONS OF HIS INDIGNATION: for this is the work of the Lord GOD of hosts in the land of the Chaldeans."

The first prophecy that depicts this asteroid is Gen. 3:24. I was exasperated until I found out what this verse means. It says, "he drove out the man; and he placed at the east (in the sky) of the garden of Eden Cherubims (planets, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, the 3 heavens of II Cor. 12:2-7), and a flaming sword (i.e., the asteroid) which turned every way (orbited and rotated), to keep (guard) the way of (to) the tree of life." The tree of life represents Christ, whose throne is on the 3rd heaven.

We have this lineup to consider: Earth, Mars, the Asteroid Belt, Jupiter, Saturn. Satan's planet, Rahab, was split into the pieces that now make up our Asteroid Belt. Isa. 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (Christ); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (lit., split) Rahab, and wounded the dragon?" (Satan). Besides the pieces of the planet that blew up and orbit in the Asteroid Belt, there are other asteroids called NEA's (Near Earth Asteroids). They were blasted into cometary orbits that bring them near the Earth. Toutatis is one binary of this type.

I think the "flaming sword" represents the piece of Satan's planet that will impact Earth. I also think he lives on it in the heavenlies now. Rev. 9:1-3 says, "the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star (aster) fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him (Satan) was given the key (the asteroid) of the bottomless pit (the center of the Earth). And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there came out of the smoke locusts (i.e., demons) upon the earth." Jude 6 says, "the angels (wicked ones, i.e., demons) which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation (on the asteroid), he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day" (the Day of God's Wrath that starts the millennial Day of the Lord).

Satan and his fallen angels are cast out of heaven unto the Earth Mid-Trib. Then their habitation will fall to Earth to end the rule of the Satan-possessed False Prophet. "And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall punish the host of the high ones that are on high, AND the kings of the earth UPON THE EARTH" (Isa. 24:21). The saints won't be here for that, both Raptures will have taken place before it impacts Earth.

> > Are we all just taking it all so lightly

We should obey Jesus. In Mt. 24:6, he said, "ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

> > possible war on our land, the U.S

I see nothing in the Bible that shows that the USA will be attacked. II Sam. 7:23 says, "what one (echad, UNITED) NATION in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself (i.e., United States, established as "ONE NATION under God"), and to make him a name, and to do for you (Israel) great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people." The US is Israel's friend. Agape

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Re: The Year of Joseph according to the Jews
Just read this article written by a Jewish Rabbi on the Wailing Wall Web Cam site

Do you see what I see or do you understand it differently?

I see: 1) They think this year will contain miracles. 2) They think the messiah (Ben Joseph?) will come this year. 3) They think that "when falsehood rules the minds of men...this is actually one of the signs that Messiah is not too far away"

Doesn't the Bible say that during tribulation the Jews will be desceived (falsehood rules the minds) by the antichrist (who they will claim is Messiah)and miracles and signs will be performed by the false prophet in behalf of the antichrist?

It appears the Jews are setting themselves up to fufill Revelations this year...any thoughts? Because of Him

My reply

Jesus cameI don't really pay attention to the Kabbalah, but I do think we are close to the end. I think some Israelis recognize that too. As far as I can tell, the 70th week of Daniel should begin next Feast of Weeks/Pentecost.

Jesus came in his Father's name, and they rejected him. He said that another would come in his own name, and they would receive him. Agape

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Re: Correction from P&C 624
I believe that you misunderstood what Mr. Sharon was saying, possibly due to rough translation from Hebrew to English.

The part that said, "Maybe, but also, one can not speak in generalities here, maybe some of us, let's say getting apart from Judaism - and I am a secular man - getting away from Judaism. Their roots are not as deep as they should be, in order to face the problems that we have here in this country. And therefore, everyone should learn the Bible more..."

I heard his quote, what he meant was as follows: "One can not speak in generalities here, maybe some would say that 'we should get away from Judaism and that I am a secular man'. People that say such things, their roots are not as deep as they should be," etc., etc.

Mr. Sharon definitely does not consider himself a "secular man", in fact just the opposite. Agape

My reply

Thanks for setting this straight. I'm glad he does not consider himself a secular man. Agape

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Re: the Ark
Who closed the door, Noah or God? Thanks.

My reply

The Lord said, "I am the door" in Jn. 7,9, so as a type, "they that went in (the Ark), went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in" (Gen. 7:16)."

There are some interesting scriptures that mention the door.

Jn. 10:7,9 says, "said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I AM THE DOOR of the sheep....I AM THE DOOR: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture."

Mt. 28:2 says, "there was a great earthquake: for the ANGEL OF THE LORD descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and SAT UPON IT."

James 5:9 says, "Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge (Christ) standeth before the DOOR."

Rev. 3:8 says, "I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an OPEN DOOR, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name."

Rev. 4:1 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a DOOR was opened IN HEAVEN: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter." Agape

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Re: Endurance
I've been a follower of your prophecy web page for a number of years now, (that speaks volumes in itself), and have to admire your faith and fortitude amidst all that must be major disappointments? How do you do it?

I've read your statement that "you know Him to whom you're bought or something similar. In other words you are born again and have a personal relationship with Jesus. I can accept that and your personal revelation of the "rectangle of light", to publish and conceal not.

That much I can understand. My question remains how do you deal with the disappointments, the disillusionment and fatigue of this testing. Amidst the financial straights, the failing health, even the deaths of loved ones, don't you ever question, "what is the point to all this testing?" (Oh, the previous mention testings are mine not yours but they seem to parallel).

It seems we can gain all the "book" knowledge, but fail to solace our human frailty. I know we have been promised rewards if we endure. We've been promised many things... How do you do it" Sorry to have burdened you with this.

Another question relates to these years of testings. Due to the lack of fruition of any insights (most prophetic insights generally), does that not also put in jeopardy any following insights, re: following? Sept. 13, 2007 = Tishri 1, 5768: day of Pre-Wrath Rapture, Feast of Trumpets, Day of God's Wrath, first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. In Him with waning patience

My reply

> > how do you deal with the disappointments, the disillusionment and fatigue of this testing.

I don't have disillusionment. I know Satan will get in his pricks, so I say to myself, "What else?" and think of Rom. 8:28. It says, "we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." He doesn't say that all things are good. However, no matter what, he will work all things together for our own good. Rom. 5:3 says, "we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience."

We must wait patiently for the Lord to work out things the way he knows is best. We trust him for Salvation. We should trust him for the rest, ask him to carry the load on his strong shoulder, and see us through. We are weak, but truly, he is strong. This isn't forever. It won't last, but it will prove what we are made of.

Years ago, when we were looking for a building for our Spring Crest Drapery, the realtor was so disappointed when the owners of one decided not to sell. I said, "That's ok. It just means that the Lord has something better for us." He said, "I wish I could have that philosophy." I was right too, a better one did come along. We bought it, moved the store, worked very hard and built up the business, winning an award at the SC convention for top sales. I won an award from a supplier's nat'l contest for an original drapery top treatment.

Many years later, we sold both the business and the building. Ed developed diabetes. The open-heart surgery came later. The buyers of the business skipped with everything, sewing machines and all, and are not paying us. A con artist cheated us out of most of the proceeds of the building, or we wouldn't be between a rock and a hard place financially now trying to get by mostly on our Social Security. This con artist was even going to publish my 2nd book, delaying its publication for about 6 months, when I finally asked for the typeset copy back.

We were one of many he cheated. The Feds put him in jail and told Ed not to feel bad, that the man was very good at the scam he pulled and that he had cheated investors out of 13 million dollars. He used incoming money to pay earlier investors something, and never bought the buildings he said people were investing in. He had our daughter, who also had a Spring Crest Drapery, do draperies for his house, and didn't pay her. How people like that can live with themselves, I don't know. He even claimed to be Christian. If so, he didn't live it.

We finally had to give away the house that we had bought unfinished as an investment. Had to get rid of the payments. We finished it and then the bottom dropped out of the real estate market. We tried 1 1/2 years to sell it and could not. We had to pay to sell our Pearson 35' sailboat we had in a charter fleet. Couldn't sell it otherwise. That was another investment that went sour. One other investment, in oil and gas, was a fraud. That man ended up in jail. I think a couple of others went bankrupt. We thought we had provided for our retirement, but it almost all evaporated. Now at 71 and 76, there is no way we could set up another drapery business and run it. It takes working till about 11 every night, going home exhausted. I don't let Ed drive. He can barely get in and out of the car or out of a recliner in spite of his working out at Cardiac Rehab.

> > How do you do it

We can get knocked down over and over, but we never give up. We just get back up and go on, doing what is right to the best of our ability. The Lord never said this would be easy, but he promised to work all things together for our good in the end. In the meantime, we do the best we can and keep walking the Christian walk, one step at a time.

> > don't you ever question, "what is the point to all this testing?"

No. My mind is made up to follow the Lord, no matter what. I'm still alive, but would die for my faith, knowing that there will come a day when the Lord will wipe away all tears. It will be worth anything we have to go through here. This life is our testing ground, not later.

> > does that not also put in jeopardy any following insights, re: following? Sept. 13, 2007 = Tishri 1, 5768: day of Pre-Wrath Rapture, Feast of Trumpets, Day of God's Wrath, first day of the millennial Day of the Lord

I don't know why it would change anything but the timing of the Pre-Trib Rapture. The Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993. Adding 7 good years and 7 bad years, we come to Sept. 13, 2007. The Oslo Accords were ratified 3 days later in Israel, on Tishri 1, 5754. Adding 14 years to that, we come to Tishri 1, 5768, the Feast of Trumpets, which just happens to be Sept. 13, 2007. To me, that is too good to be by coincidence. I think God planned it that way as a signpost along the way. I think Sept. 13, 2007 to be the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord, and therefore the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture and the Day of God's Wrath.

If we count back, by Jewish inclusive reckoning, the 2300 days of the shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:13,14), we find that the 70th week of Daniel starts on the very appropriate Feast of Weeks in 2001. At this point, I can't see any other place for the Tribulation to fit. The last year is 5768, a Jewish Leap Year, so the 7 months of burying the dead of Eze. 39:12,13 fit between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1, when I expect the Lord to return in glory (Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3). This will be the last 2300-day span that hits those 2 feasts in the 40 years since the Fig Tree Parable was fulfilled in 1967. I even counted those 2300 days for several years after 2007. They do not fit. World events right now seem to be fitting right in with prophecy too.

I also think the new stars, the huge GRB focused on Earth, and the 2 anchor-cross signs we have had are important to keep in mind. Lu. 21:25 says, "there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars (lit., constellations); and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea (symbol of people and nations, Rev. 17:15) and the waves roaring." Then verse 28 says, "when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

We are nearing the end of the waiting. We must not let our patience wear thin now. The Lord said that he would never leave us. He will see us through. We don't have to do this alone. Agape

His reply

You are truly a blessing. Thanks for responding. In Him

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Subject: Sign in the sky?
Since you find atronomical phenomena to be significant I wonder what you would make of this?

My reply

I think the faces are coincidences, but the woman's face on the left that is turned toward the central light is perfect, reflecting that light. It shows the upper part of her blue dress. Her hair looks like it is wound around her head.

The things that I think are signs are the 2 new stars we had, the huge Gamma Ray Burster focused at Earth, and what is shown near the top on my home page. There are two anchor crosses, not an easy thing to happen all by itself. Lu. 21:26 talks about signs in the Sun, Moon and literally, constellations. Then v. 28 says, "when these things BEGIN to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

We need to get ready (use I Jn. 1:9) and stay ready. Wouldn't want to get caught off guard now. We seem to be on the home stretch. Agape

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