Pro and Con 632

Posted 11-10-00

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Thought you and your readers might like this. Its a live web-cam set up for the wailing wall AND the current time in Israel. http://aish.com/wallcam/

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THINKMAIL #28, 9-27-00
..."Then the brethren immediately sent Paul and Silas away by night to Berea. When they arrived, they went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more fair-minded than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness, and searched the Scriptures daily [to find out] whether these things were so." -- ACTS 17:10-11 (NKJV)

Many have mined this passage over the years for much truth concerning the authority and the perpescuity of Scripture. However, I want to focus on one phrase: "they received the word with all readiness."

The Greek word translated "readiness" here is 'prothumia'. It carries the idea of of having a "willing mind" (as the KJV renders it in Acts 17, and as the NKJV translates it in 2 Cor. 8:12,19). And what exactly were these Bereans so "ready," so "willing," to do? RECEIVE THE WORD. In other words, these "more noble" Bible students had no party line to uphold (like, for instance, that of the "First Berea Synagogue") and were OPEN to the truth, using the Scriptures as their "measuring stick" to determine how Paul's message measured up....

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Re: Time of Jacobs Trouble and Obadiah
As most all of you know, we know have a habitation up amongst the stars in outer space. We know have people living up there, and they have now said that it will never be vacant. The National Space Station.

If we look in our bibles to Obadiah we can see that we might be in the time of Jacobs Trouble, which I believe started on Rosh Hashana. Look at verse 4 in the book of Obadiah. "Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy "NEST" among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the Lord".

I believe that this could be referring to the National Space Station Habitat that exists now with humans living among the stars. If you read have read Obadiah, you will see that it is about the time of Jacobs Trouble. And if Im not mistaken, I believe it was on Rosh Hashana that the CNN said "We now have a habitat in outer space, that shall no longer be un-manned". In other words, there will "always" be humans living in outer space from now on. Persoally, I believe the time of Jacobs Trouble "did" start on Rosh Hashana, and I dont believe that we will see a 7 year tribulation. I believe that the antichrist will confirm "a" covenant for 7 years yes, but I no longer see this as a 7 year tribulation period. I believe that the tribulation starts at the abomination of desolation and goes for 3 1/2 years.

I do not think that the begin time of Jacobs trouble is the same as the start of a 7 year trib anymore. Could it be that the second coming of Christ will occur 7 years to the date of Rosh Hashana, in 2007? 7 years exactly from the start of Jacobs Trouble on Rosh of this year?

Verse 15 of Obadiah tells us "For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen... How can the day of the Lord be near if we believe we are already raptured at the time Jacobs trouble starts? We very well could be in the time of Jacobs Trouble right now according to this book, Obadiah in the bible. hmmm, makes you wonder.. Remember, its all speculation, and just some thoughts. But again, if you read the book of Obadiah in the bible, you may see that we could possible be in the time of Jacobs Trouble, that started at Rosh Hashana this year.

My reply

> > we might be in the time of Jacobs Trouble, which I believe started on Rosh Hashana.

I think it will start on Rosh HaShannah in 2007, but I don't think the time of Jacob's trouble is 7 years, or even 3.5 years. It is one day, Jesus' Long Day. Jesus is from Joshua in the Hebrew, and Joshua's Long Day was a type of Jesus' Long Day. It is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Like Solomon, Jesus will purge his kingdom at its inception.

Dan. 11:45; 12:1.2 says, "And he (the False Prophet) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas (the Mediterranean and the Dead Sea) in the glorious holy mountain (the temple mount at Jerusalem); yet he shall come to HIS END, and none shall help him. And at that time (when the False Prophet will be deposed from office) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE (Jacob's Trouble), SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: and AT THAT TIME thy people (the 144,000, Rev. 7:1-8; 14:1-5) shall be delivered (the Pre-Wrath Rapture), every one that shall be found written in the book And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake."

That time of trouble is the Day of God's Wrath. The asteroid pieces of Rev. 8:10 are to fall at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5, Amos 8:9). "When he is about to fill his belly, God shall cast the fury of his WRATH upon him, and shall rain it upon him while he is eating" (Job 20:23). Before that, the Pre-Wrath Rapture will take place. There is no way that can be even a 3.5-year period. It is one literal day.

> > I believe that this could be referring to the National Space Station Habitat

Concerning Edom (red, i.e., the great red dragon, Satan), Obad. 3,4 says, "The PRIDE of thine heart hath deceived thee (Satan), thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock (on the "aster" of Rev. 8:10), whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground? Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD."

Eze. 28:13-18 says of Satan, "Thou hast been in Eden (both heavenly and earthly) the garden of God; every precious stone (planet) was thy covering (surroundings), the sardius (symbol of Mercury), topaz (Venus), and the diamond (Earth), the beryl (Mars), the onyx (Rahab, Satan's planet, now our Asteroid Belt), and the jasper (Jupiter), the sapphire (Saturn, Eze. 1:26; Ex. 24:10), the emerald (Uranus), and the carbuncle (Neptune), and gold (Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth (guards, Gen. 3:24); and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God (Saturn); thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (Rahab in the midst of the planets). Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God (Saturn): and I will destroy thee, O covering (guarding) cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire (planets). Thine heart was lifted up (proud) because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I WILL CAST THEE TO THE GROUND, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee. Thou hast defiled thy sanctuaries by the multitude of thine iniquities, by the iniquity of thy traffick; therefore will I bring forth a fire from the midst of thee (i.e., his asteroid he now lives on will impact Earth and open the bottomless pit (Rev. 9:1,2), it shall devour thee, and I will bring thee to ashes upon the earth."

Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here (at Babylon), as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock (the asteroid, split off of his planet Rahab)? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. He will surely VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country (Iraq): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

> > the tribulation starts at the abomination of desolation and goes for 3 1/2 years.

The 70th week of Daniel is a 7-year period called the Tribulation. The Great Tribulation is the last 3.5years.

> > Could it be that the second coming of Christ will occur 7 years to the date of Rosh Hashana, in 2007

Rosh HaShannah, the Feast of Trumpets in 2007, will be, I think, the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord and also the Day of God's Wrath. Gog's army will attack Israel that day. The Lord will fight for Israel. The stones (Rev. 8:8,10) will be thrown down, causing a world wide earthquake in which every wall will fall (Eze. 38:18-20). Israel will be burying the dead for the next 7 months to cleanse the land for the Lord's return in glory (Eze. 39:13,14).

According to Hos. 6:3 and Eze. 29:17,21, Christ will return on the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year and Sacred Year, Nisan 1. For there to be 7 months between Rosh HaShannah on Tishri 1 and the following Nisan 1, it must take place in a Jewish Leap Year. The year 5768, which starts Tishri 1 (our Sept. 13, 2007), is a Leap Year. Nisan 1 will fall on our Apr. 6, 2008, the anniversary of the Crucifixion on our calendar.

> > How can the day of the Lord be near if we believe we are already raptured at the time Jacobs trouble starts?

The Day of the Lord does not start at the Pre-Trib Rapture (the 1st "trump of God"), but at the 2nd, or Pre-Wrath Rapture (the "last trump). Agape

His reply

Marilyn Said: The 70th week of Daniel is a 7-year period called the Tribulation. The Great Tribulation is the last 3.5years. Me: Show me in the bible where it says that the tribulation is 7 years. Im sorry to say, but its not there.

Marilyn Said: I think it will start on Rosh HaShannah in 2007, but I don't think the time of Jacob's trouble is 7 years, or even 3.5 years

Me: How can the time of Jacobs Trouble start at the Second Coming of Christ in 2007?

Also Marilyn, you never answered the question about the book of Obadiah. What is the habitation that we have built amongst the stars, as it says in the bible ? Its referred to as a "Nest" which we have amongst the stars, that God shall bring down. Verse 3 tells us that this "Nest" is a "Habitation" amongs the stars in outer space. Im sorry, but this could only be referring to one thing. Who and what, right now, has a habitation amongst the stars? NASA, and the National Space Station...Still only speculation, but this is what Im getting out of the book of Obadiah.

My reply

> >Marilyn: The 70th week of Daniel is a 7-year period called the Tribulation. The Great Tribulation is the last 3.5years.
> Me: Show me in the bible where it says that the tribulation is 7 years

Lev. 26:23-25 says, "if ye will not be reformed by me by these things, but will walk contrary unto me; Then will I also walk contrary unto you, and will punish you yet SEVEN TIMES (years, as in Rev. 12:14, Dan. 12:7) for your sins. And I will bring a sword upon you." The Sword of the Lord falls on Earth on the Day of God's Wrath, the 2300th day of the 7 year Tribulation/70th week of Daniel.

What we call the Tribulation is the 70th week of Daniel. It is found in Dan. 9:27. Concerning the wicked prince that will come, the False Prophet, it says, "he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week (1 week of years, or 7 years, i.e., what we call the Tribulation): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (as in Mt. 24:15), and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation (of the 7 years), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" (lit., desolator, i.e, the Satan-possessed False Prophet).

The first half is 1260 days, as in Rev. 11:3. During those 1260 days, the two witnesses, Moses and Elijah will prophesy. When the 1260 days are up, the Satan-possessed False Prophet will kill Moses and Elijah and sit in the temple himself. He "opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4).

Following that 1260 days is another 1260-day period (Rev. 12:6,14), called the "great tribulation" in Rev. 7:14. It is the last half of the 7-year Tribulation. This is the period that is to be shortened. Mt. 24:21,22 says, "then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened."

The 2nd 1260-day period is shortened to 1040 days. Dan. 8:13,14 says, "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (i.e., during the 1st 1260 days), and the transgression of desolation (Mid-Trib), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot (1040 days)? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." (2300 - 1260 = 1040). On day 2300, the Sword of the Lord will fall on unbelievers left on Earth (Rev. 8:8,10).

> > Also Marilyn, you never answered the question about the book of Obadiah. What is the habitation that we have built amongst the stars

Forgive me for not making it clear enough for you to understand. It is SATAN who has the nest among the stars. Edom means red, which is the clue we need to see that this passage is talking about SATAN, i.e., the great RED dragon (Rev. 12:3). His planet, Rahab, was split apart, forming our Asteroid Belt. SATAN is now living on a piece of his planet, the asteroid called "Wormwood" (Rev. 8:10,11). It is SATAN'S asteroid that will be thrown at Earth. That asteroid is referred to in Jer. 12:12 as the "sword of the LORD." It says, "the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace." It is called the "sword of the LORD" because the Lord is the one that throws the asteroid into the Earth (Isa. 22:18).

Obadiah 1:3,4 says, "The PRIDE (SATAN'S downfall) of thine heart hath deceived thee (SATAN), thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock (ASTEROID), whose habitation is high (ORBITS AND ROTATES IN THE SKY); that saith in his (SATAN'S) heart, Who (THE LORD) shall bring me down to the ground? Though thou (SATAN) exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest (DWELLING PLACE) among the stars (IN THE SKY), thence will I BRING THEE DOWN, SAITH THE LORD."

> > Who and what, right now, has a habitation amongst the stars?

SATAN. Eph. 3:10 says, "To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers IN HEAVENLY PLACES might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God."

Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here (at Babylon), as he (SATAN) that heweth him out a SEPULCHRE ON HIGH, and that GRAVETH AN HABITATION FOR HIMSELF IN A ROCK (the asteroid, split off of his planet Rahab)? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. He will surely VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country (Iraq, where Babylon is): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down." Agape

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A second reason I think the year 2000 may be a significant year is because of another set of astounding predictions by Daniel. Over 600 years before Yeshua, Daniel predicted that Babylon would be overthrown by a man named Cyrus leading the Persians. Then he said the tiny nation of Greece would eventually defeat Persia. Daniel predicted that when the Greek leader died (Alexander the Great), his kingdom would be divided into four parts. He says one of the four Greek divisions will be ruled by a leader who will be a "type" of the future antichrist by actually desecrating the temple of Solomon. This prediction was fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes on December 16, 168 BC. In Daniel 8:14, Daniel says that leader would stop animal sacrifices (which he did) and that animal sacrifices would be restored in Jerusalem 2,200 days later. (Some versions say 2,300 days; a few say 2,400 days. Jerome the church father who translated the Latin Vulgate Bible, preferred 2,200 days.

5.The eight copies of the book of Daniel found in the Dead Sea Scrolls are the oldest copies we have, so probably the most accurate. In all eight copies, the number is torn out and missing, which seems like an extreme coincidence or an act of deception. Did that number really wear out of all eight copies? I doubt it. Did the Essenes tear it out of all eight copies for some reason? I doubt it. Did the Dead Sea scholars who have been hiding the Dead Sea Scrolls for nearly 50 years tear it out? I don't know. Why would they?

I do know that if 2,200 prophetic "days" (or 360-day years) is accurate, the Daniel implied that 2,200 years after Antiochus Epiphanes desecrated the temple and stopped sacrifices, the Messiah would come and restore sacrifices. That 2,200 years (360 day years, remember) will have been completed in the fall of the year 2000.

My reply

The LXX has 2300 days with the note "Alex. 300."

Dan. 8:13,14 is the vision of the evening and the morning. To me, that means that it is to be taken as literal 24-hour days. It also applies to the future. Verse 26 says, "And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days."

Dan. 8:13,14 says, "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (when Israel can sacrifice during the 1st 1260 days of the Tribulation), and the transgression of desolation (Mid-Tribulation), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot (during the remaining 1040 days)? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED" (2300 - 1260 = 1040).

The sanctuary is to be cleansed on Nisan 1. Eze. 45:18,21 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month (Nisan 1), thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and CLEANSE THE SANCTUARY...In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month (Nisan 14), ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days." I take this to be the Nisan 1 of the Second Advent. Agape

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Re: Pretrib rapture...as the days of Noah were
I have always felt in my spirit that the rapture and Rosh HaShanna were conected some how. I still feel this is so. The fact that this latest violence in Israel started on Rosh HaShanna to me is no coincidence. I believe that there is going to be a serious war in a very short time, involving Syria and some of the other Arab nations. I think that if Israel is attacked from all fronts and think they might be aniallated, they will us nuke's. They have made this clear from what i understand. This would turn into a world wide conflict that could be a cover for the rapture and way to have people accept the one world order. "People's hearts will be failing them for the things that are coming upon the world." Let's keep looking up becuase our redemtion draweth nigh! Agape!

My reply

> > the rapture and Rosh HaShanna were conected some how

The 2nd Rapture seems to be on Rosh HaShannah, the Feast of Trumpets, in 2007, our Sept. 13, 2007. However, the 1st Rapture seems more likely in the spring. Song of Sol. 2:10-14 says, "My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and COME AWAY. For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing OF BIRDS is come, and the voice of the turtle (turtledove) is heard in our land; The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and COME AWAY. O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock (in Christ), in the secret PLACES of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice." The words "of birds" and "places" are not in the original. The Bride sings the "new song" right after the Pre-Trib Rapture (Rev. 5:9), and this is the SECRET OF THE STAIRS, like Jacob's ladder.

Isa. 18:3-6 says, "All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and WHEN HE BLOWETH A TRUMPET (I Thess. 4:16,17), hear ye. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest. For AFORE THE HARVEST, when the bud is perfect, and the SOUR GRAPE IS RIPENING in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs (i.e., those with fruit) with pruning hooks, and take away (at the Pre-Trib Rapture) AND cut down (Lu. 12:46) the branches (i.e., with no fruit). They (the foolish Laodicean virgins) shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth (Rev. 13): and the fowls shall SUMMER upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall WINTER upon them."

> > if Israel is attacked from all fronts and think they might be aniallated, they will us nuke's. They have made this clear from what i understand.

What SCRIPTURE makes you think this? No matter what man says, the Lord is in command. I don't think the attack by Gog's army comes on the day of the Pre-Trib Rapture, but it comes on the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture. The attack causes the Lord to use his weapon, the Sword of the Lord, out of his arsenal to stop it. That catastrophe is on the Day of God's Wrath. It takes place on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord, which I think is the 2300th day of the Tribulation (Dan. 8:13,14).

The asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 are probably 2 pieces of a binary asteroid, which is the Sword of the Lord. Jer. 12:12 says, "the sword of the LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace." Isa. 34:5 says, "For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment." Of the trumpets of judgment in Rev. 8,8,10, two are pieces of the asteroid. The one like a great mountain burning with fire impacts the Mediterranean Sea (Zeph. 2:4,5), stopping Gog's army. The Earth is turned upside down on that day of thick darkness (Joel 2:1-3). Isa. 24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof."

Eze. 38:20 says of that day, "the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground." This is the worldwide earthquake of Rev. 16:18,19, "and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."

The Tribulation seems to start out in peace. The Beast and False Prophet confirm the 7-year peace treaty (Dan. 9:27). When the 1st seal is broken, the Beast (Tribulation Pope) rides forth on a white horse as a prince of peace (Rev. 6:2). War does not arrive until about another year has gone by, when the 2nd seal is broken.

I'm watching and praying. Lu. 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Agape

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Re: Article for your e-mail to share
I'd like to share a supernatural event that took place in a neighborhood I frequently visit (I have changed the names of those involved). This event references the resurrection at the Lord's second coming.

Pete was a neighbor who was an ex-alcoholic. He liked to hang out with the guys at my friend, Mick's house. However, he claimed one day that one of the guys had given him a drink of hard liquor one night and that was what finally did in his liver. We all watched Pete decline over the next few months. He was always swollen, but seemed pretty game about it all the times he checked into the hospital.

Mick and I frequently visited Pete in the hospital and I would ask, "Pete, do you know the Lord?"

At first, Pete said that he used to, but not really now. Towards the end, Pete seemed to be getting more emotional and I think he was having a spiritual struggle. One day, Mick and I visited him in the hospital and I asked if he was right with the Lord, now. Pete said, confidently, "I'm ready to go; if the Lord would walk in and say, "Let's go, Pete, I wouldn't argue, I would just get up and follow Him out the door."

Soon after, Pete was home again and so ill he needed an ambulance. He told his niece, Holly, with whom he was close, to go call from the neighbor's phone. He started to get up and sat right back down. He passed away just like that, right in front of Holly, without a word and eyes open. Holly yelled, Pete! Pete! Pete! and then ran to call the ambulance.

Mick and I talked to Holly and Laura, her mother, the next week. Laura said she really didn't know if her brother, Pete, was saved because he would not discuss religion with her. I told them what Pete had said about if Jesus walked in and said, "Let's go, Pete" he would follow Him out the door. They seemed to take comfort in that and Holly remarked, "Pete saw God". > Mick and I did not see Holly and Laura for months after that. Recently, Laura called to us when we were out walking and we came over and chatted with her. Holly said, "Do they know about Pete?"

I said, "Yes, we know he died."

They both said, "No, Pete's in Heaven!"

Holly then told us an incredible thing. She said that she went into the living room one night recently and she saw Pete sitting in a chair. She was terribly frightened and Pete said, "Don't be afraid, I'm all right; I'm perfect. Shortly, I'm going to have a body."

That was all and Pete was gone. Holly did not understand it. I told her that at the resurrection, the dead rise up with their immortal physical bodies. At the same time, those of us who know the Lord will be changed instantly into our immortal bodies just before the rapture or catching away described in the Bible.

I thought this was a very exciting story and worth sharing. It is a confirmation of sorts of the feeling a lot of Christians have that the resurrection/rapture must be very near! Thanks for the opportunity to share.

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