My new email address is: email@example.com
Sorry, but both mirror URLs are different than posted last night. Please copy again.
pe.net will be down awhile because of the move, starting 11-17-00.
We both had doctor's appointments at the same time today to save gas. Of course, that didn't work. Ed's Dr. wasn't in. His got rescheduled for next week. Mine kept us waiting a long time. Got out way after Ed, who is diabetic, was supposed to eat. I gave him some hard candies and took off for Arby's in spite of Dr. requesting that I wait 15 min. to make sure I didn't have a reaction to the flu and pneumonia shots (I didn't).
Ed still has a bit of a cold, but I don't have a sore throat any more. My Bone Density test showed osteopenia. My bones are losing calcium, but it isn't bad. Thank you Lord.
I think they are consistent, the former rain starting on Tishri 1 in the late summer or early fall, the latter rain starting on Nisan 1 in the spring. De. 11:14 says, "I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first (or former) rain and the latter rain." The Second Advent on Nisan 1 (Eze. 29:17,21) makes Tishri 1 very likely for the First Advent. Hos. 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." Those are definite planned times. I can't see them changing. Can you?
> > The first group raptured are the barley loaves every way I see it. The wheat is harvested by the reapers (angels) in the main harvest. This has to be on the Day of the LORD any way I see it.
The barley was the offering on the Feast of Firstfruits. The wheat was made into flour for the 2 wave loaves on Pentecost.
Josephus, a Pharisee priest, said in Ant. iii. X. 5, "Nisan, and is the beginning of our year, on the fourteenth day of the lunar month, when the sun is in Aries, (for in this month it was that we were delivered from bondage under the Egyptians,) the...Passover...The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days...But on the second day of unleavened bread, which is the sixteenth day of the month, they first partake of the fruits of the earth, for before that day they not touch them...they offer the first-fruits of their barley."
Josephus (Ant. III. X. 6) said, "Pentecost, they bring to God a loaf, made of wheat flour, of two tenth deals, with leaven."
Mt. 13:30 says, "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles (maybe groups in the UR) to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
Lu. 21:31 says, " Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat."
It seems that Jesus and the other saints that came out of their graves on Resurrection Day (Mt. 27:52) fulfilled the Feast of Firstfruits. If the Rapture is on a feast day, that leaves the harvest festival, Pentecost, as a strong possibility for the Pre-Trib Rapture. However, there may be a gap between the Pre-Trib Rapture and the Tribulation. If so, Ascension Day seems to be a good possibility since the head of the Body of Christ ascended that day. Since both Pentecost and Ascension Day are just 10 days apart, they both fit Song of Solomon 2:10-14.
Isa. 18:5,6 says, "For AFORE THE HARVEST (Pentecost is 'the feast of harvest,' so before that is Ascension Day), when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower (spring), he shall both cut off the sprigs (i.e., with fruit) with pruning hooks, and take away (Rapture?) AND cut down the branches (i.e., with no fruit). They (foolish virgins?) shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth (Rev. 13): and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them."
That verse could be the clue we are looking for. The grapes usually ripen in late May or early June. Next Ascension Day could be Iyar 25 (May 18, 2001). Pentecost, Sivan 6, is May 28, 2001. Below, I have copied other verses that could have a bearing on this for us to study.
> > Ex 23:16 Ex 34:22
Ex. 23:14-19 says, "Three times thou shalt keep a feast unto me in the year (the Sacred Year). Thou shalt keep (1) the feast of unleavened bread: (thou shalt eat unleavened bread seven days, as I commanded thee, in the time appointed of the month Abib (Nisan); for in it thou camest out from Egypt: and none shall appear before me empty:) And (2) the feast of harvest (Pentecost/Feast of Weeks), the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field: and (3) the feast of ingathering, which is in the end of the year (i.e., in the latter half of the year), when thou hast (past tense) gathered in thy labours out of the field. Three times in the year (the Sacred Year) all thy males shall appear before the LORD God....The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God."
Ex 34:18,22 says, "The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep...And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks (Pentecost), of the FIRSTFRUITS of WHEAT HARVEST, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end" (i.e., after the latter half of the year has started).
James 1:18: "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of FIRSTFRUITS of his creatures."
The 1st feast portrayed Christ, the perfect 7, sinless. The 2nd feast has to do with the Spirit of Christ coming to the church, which consists of both Jews (as at Sinai) and Gentiles (as at Pentecost, 30 AD). The 3rd feast has to do with Israel in the Millennium, the 8th day of the feast standing for a new order.
The Rapture has already taken place in Rev. 13 and 17. Is it at the same time that the Beast begins to rule, or is it before that time? maybe on Ascension Day. We need to read these very carefully, and see if a gap is intended or excluded. Maybe you will think of other scriptures that could have a bearing on this too.
Rev. 13:1-10 (KJV) starts out at the beginning of the Tribulation. It says, "I...saw a beast (great red dragon) rise up out of the sea (nations), having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy (Pontifex Maximus)....his mouth as the mouth of a lion (king of Babylon): and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. And I saw one of his heads (the 6th, the Beast) as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed (the present Pope was wounded and healed): and all the world wondered after the beast. And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast (Tribulation Pope), saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months (1st 1260 days of the Tribulation). And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven (the Rapture has already taken place). And it was given unto him to make war (2nd seal, Rev. 6:4) with the saints (Tribulation saints), and to overcome them (the martyrs): and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations (he is head of the UN or OWG). And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb." He is also the head of the UR (United Religions).
Rev. 13:6,7 (Literal Concordant Version) says, "it opens its mouth in blasphemies toward God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, and THOSE TABERNACLING IN HEAVEN." The Rapture has taken place.
Rev. 13:6 (Green's Interlinear, under the Greek words) says, "and THOSE WHO IN THE HEAVEN TABERNACLE."
Rev. 17:1-3,10-15 (KJV) says, "I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters (nations): With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication (joined), and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication. So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness (Babylon in the desert): and I saw a woman (the harlot church, Mystery Babylon, mother of harlots) sit upon a scarlet coloured beast (the great red dragon), full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns....And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is (in power, the Tribulation Pope, the Beast), and the other (the False Prophet) is not yet come (he comes to full power Mid-Trib); and when he cometh, he must continue a short space (the 1040-day shortened Great Tribulation). And the beast (Satan) that was (in Judas Iscariot), and is not (in man now), even he is the eighth (the tail of the great red dragon), and is of the seven (controls the 7), and goeth into perdition (as the False Prophet does, II Thess. 2:3). And the ten horns which thou sawest ARE ten kings (crowned), which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings (crowned) one hour with the beast (the 6th head, the one that 'is'). These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall (in the future) make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall (in the future) overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that ARE with him (Christ, in Heaven) ARE called, and chosen, and faithful. And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues."
Rev. 17:12-14 (Literal Concordant Version) says, "the ten horns which you perceived ARE ten kings who obtained no kingdom as yet, but ARE OBTAINING AUTHORITY AS KINGS one hour WITH the wild beast (crowned at the beginning of the Tribulation, Rev. 13:1,7). These have one opinion, and they ARE GIVING their power and authority to the wild beast. These WILL BE battling with the Lambkin, and the Lambkin WILL BE conquering them, seeing that It is Lord of lords and King of kings, and those with It (Christ, in Heaven) ARE called and chosen and faithful."
Lev. 23:22 (KJV): "when ye REAP THE HARVEST (at Pentecost) of your land, thou SHALL NOT MAKE CLEAN RIDDANCE (i.e., leave the foolish virgins?) of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger."
Ex. 23:19 (KJV): "The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God."
Of Pentecost, Lev. 23:17 (KJV) says, "Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals; they shall be of fine flour (wheat flour); they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD."
II Peter 1:11 says, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."
Eph. 4:4 says, "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling."
Phil. 3:14 says, "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
II Peter 1:10,11 says, "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall."
I will work on this some more, but because of my email address being cut off the 17th, I want to get this much to you so you can work on it too.
Unger's Bible Dict. says that barley harvest begins in Nisan, wheat coming into ear. In Iyar, barley is harvested, wheat is ripening on the uplands. Wheat harvest begins on uplands in Sivan.
> > 1Kings 6:1 the temple of the LORD is begun
On Iyar 2, see 2 Chron. 3:2.
> > Satan desired to sift Peter as Wheat, because he wanted to get his powers on Peter, in the Great tribulation setting, where the Holy Spirit did not restrain evil.
Satan had to sift him in those days. He would have no reason to expect Peter to be here during the Great Tribulation.
> > The Wheat HAS to be those taken in the Pre-WRATH Rapture, it does not make any sense otherwise.
Why? The barley offering was on the Feast of Firstfruits and referred to Christ. The 2 wheat loaves were offered on Pentecost. This fits with "a KIND of firstfruits of his creatures" (James 1:18).
I Cor. 15:20 says, "now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept." Pentecost/Feast of Weeks is "the feast of harvest, the firstfruits of thy labours" (Ex. 23:16). Ex. 23:19 says, "The first of the firstfruits of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God." Ex. 34:22 says, "thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest." Lev. 23:17 says, "Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals; they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD." Agape
Please help me as I don't like what is going on now. PLEASE
When we sin after that, we need to confess that sin to God. Then he will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I take it to mean that if we confess our known sins, he will also wipe away unknown sins. Then we are back in fellowship with our Holy God because we are again sin free. The Holy Spirit will well up within us like a fountain of living water, and we will be filled with the Holy Spirit.
When we take a step upward spiritually, we are tested to see if we will hang on to it or let it go. This testing does not last forever. The more determined we are to hang on the quicker the testing will be over. At that point, blessing replaces testing.
Besides this, we are living near the end of this age. Now believers are tested because the Rapture is drawing near. That is when Christ comes and the Bride group rise up to meet him in the clouds and are taken to Heaven so we can escape the seven terrible Tribulation years that will come at the end of this age. It is as if we are sifted like wheat in a sieve. We must stay in the sieve and let the chaff blow away. Only overcomers will be caught up in the Rapture of the Bride of Christ group. This testing will not last forever, either. Our being determined to withstand every test will shorten this too.
Hang in there. We will be extremely glad that we are overcomers later on. The more we are tested, the more we need to pray. God helps us to grow toward what he wants us to be, perfect in his sight. We are supposed to pray and cast all our cares on the Lord. We are weak, but he is strong. He can carry the load when we can't. Give it all to him and he will work things out for your good in the end.
Romans 8:28 says, "we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Agape
where does it say in Thess to read this as a commentary? you say it not Paul, 2 Thessalonians 1: 3-9 read this in a contemporary
I see that you have again done Violence, but not intentionally of course. to Thess.
Revelation 1 Johns is the great tribulation himself definite article THE tribulation .. Israel's tribulation the great..and chapter 11 chapter the temple is still standing therefore the revelation had to be written before 70 Ad since it was destroyed in 70 .. simple yes.. i think that you need to seriously look at and examine again the scriptures in a preterest way. i can see by your answers that you know very little about the time lines of the Bible and the history of the Jews and the time statements in the Bible, it's ok thought because. You have that same old mind sit i guess your like and believe the way what he said about the words of C S Lewis
Notice the words of, C.S. Lewis, "The apocalyptic beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be false. It is clear from the New Testament that they all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime." And he adds, "And, worse still, they had a reason, and one, which you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, 'this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.'
( C. S Lewis was saying that those words, 'this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.' Meant Jesus' generation, but was wrong! ) C. S. Lewis continues by saying, "And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else. This is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible." (Essay "The World's Last Night" (1960), found in The Essential C.S. Lewis, p. 385)
Excuse me, but I say that C. S Lewis was the one that is wrong here, and he was the one under a delusion.
We have to remember, that time after time, the Holy Spirit was telling those then living in the 1st century, that the time for the blessed hope, and the appearing of Christ was, "at hand", "near", "ready", "soon", "quickly coming", "about to be". The Holy Spirit was telling them to be ready for the Revelation of Christ second appearing!
You and i will not see the rapture anytime in our life (simple because it is history. and like other generations that have come and gone we will die and simply be with the lord,, and you and i will have some conversation about this thing called Biblical Eschatology.. and well i am betting that we will have a very long and loud laugh about this when we meet the lord. Robert
***From Marilyn: There is not one place in the KJV where the words "commentary" or "contemporary" are used. You mentioned reading a scripture as a commentary, not me. Here is part of your previous email:
--- Original Message ---
From: ThunderRAP@aol.com Robert Piddington
Re: About Thessalonians
> > ...2 Thessalonians 1: 3-9 read this in a contemporary way please. Paul is telling the then living saints to be patient until the lord comes in a flaming fire, to deal out retribution to those at that time that were giving the then living saints tribulation...V 6 and V 7 are not us 2000 years later, cant you see this
No, I can't. II Thess. 1:6-10 says, "Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation (within 1 generation [Mt. 23:36], 30 AD to 70 AD) to THEM (the Pharisees who wanted Jesus crucified, etc.) that trouble you;
And (different thought) to you who are troubled (i.e., in any age) REST WITH US (i.e., in Heaven), WHEN the Lord Jesus SHALL BE (in the future) REVEALED FROM HEAVEN (the Sign of the Son of Man seen in the sky after the 6th seal is broken, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f) with his mighty angels, In flaming fire taking VENGEANCE (on the Day of God's Wrath) on them (the last generation of this age, Mt. 24:32-34) that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who SHALL BE (in the future) punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; WHEN he SHALL COME (in the future) TO BE (in the future) glorified in his saints."
In a later email, Robert said:
> > Revelation 1 Johns is the great tribulation himself definite article THE tribulation .. Israel's tribulation the great.
***From Marilyn: In Rev. 1:9, John said, "I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ."
John did not use the word "great" at all. He had gone through the trials and tribulations of the war and the burning of Jerusalem and the temple in 70 AD along with some other person he referred to as a brother and companion in tribulation. Lu. 21:21 records the words Jesus spoke (in 30 AD) about the troubles Jerusalem was in for (in 70 AD). It says, "when ye shall see JERUSALEM compassed with armies, then know that the DESOLATION THEREOF IS NIGH. Then (when the armies are around the city, not when the abomination of desolation is placed at the Temple) let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto. For these be the DAYS OF VENGEANCE, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in THE LAND (Israel), and WRATH UPON THIS PEOPLE (that were living in 30 AD). And they (the ones living in 30 AD) shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be LED AWAY CAPTIVE INTO ALL NATIONS (in 70 AD): and Jerusalem shall (after 70 AD) be trodden down of the Gentiles, UNTIL the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled."
The times of the Gentiles were fulfilled when Israel took back the temple area in the Six-Day War of 1967. That is when Israel grew leaves (Gaza, Golan Heights, Sinai, and West Bank), fulfilling the fig tree parable of Mt. 24:32-34. When that fig tree parable was fulfilled in 1967, all the things he mentioned in Mt. 24:15-31 were to take place within another a 40-year generation (1967 + 40 = 2007). The local fulfillment in 70 AD is a type of the greater fulfillment in 2007. In these latter days, the whole world will feel the wrath of God, not just Jerusalem. There will be a worldwide earthquake, and every wall will fall. All men left upon the face of the earth shall shake, and the cities of the nations will fall (Eze. 38:20; Rev. 16:18). Civilization as we know it will be destroyed.
In the 1st century, they were to watch for ARMIES to surround Jerusalem, then flee the city. In these latter days, people are to watch for the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION (idol) to be placed at the temple (which will be rebuilt by then), then flee again (Mt. 24:15,16).
> > and chapter 11 chapter the temple is still standing therefore the revelation had to be written before 70 Ad since it was destroyed in 70 .. simple yes
No. John was not exiled to Patmos before 70 AD. It was about 96 AD.
> > He shared, and indeed created, their delusion. He said in so many words, 'this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.'( C. S Lewis was saying that those words, 'this generation shall not pass till all these things be done.' Meant Jesus' generation, but was wrong! ) C. S. Lewis continues by saying, "And he was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the end of the world than anyone else.
***From Marilyn: We are not to listen to what people say without checking the Bible to see if those things are true or not. I would be afraid to say such a thing about Jesus Christ, the Almighty God. He was never wrong. He never sinned. He was and is omniscient, knowing all things. He was not just a man, he was also God. II Cor. 5:19 says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."
> > Excuse me, but I say that C. S Lewis was the one that is wrong here, and he was the one under a delusion.
***From Marilyn: I agree.
> > We have to remember, that time after time, the Holy Spirit was telling those then living in the 1st century, that the time for the blessed hope, and the appearing of Christ was, "at hand", "near", "ready", "soon", "quickly coming", "about to be". The Holy Spirit was telling them to be ready for the Revelation of Christ second appearing!
***From Marilyn: You forget that there are verses that indicate a LONG TIME. Mt. 25:19 says, "AFTER A LONG TIME the lord of those servants cometh, and reckoneth with them." Lu. 20:9 says, "Then began he to speak to the people this parable; A certain man planted a vineyard, and let it forth to husbandmen, and went into a FAR COUNTRY (Heaven) FOR A LONG TIME." James 5:7 says, "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and HATH LONG PATIENCE FOR IT, until he receive the early and latter rain."
> > You and i will not see the rapture anytime in our life (simple because it is history)
***From Marilyn: It is not history. You will see. Right now, you are fooling yourself. In Lu. 21:36, Jesus said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Are you praying that you will be accounted worthy to ESCAPE?
***From Marilyn: Just think about a few things that have been prophesied that have not yet happened. Babylon is to be destroyed so completely that man will not set foot there any more. Jer. 51:41-43 says, "how is Babylon become an astonishment among the nations! The sea is come up upon Babylon: she is covered with the multitude of the waves thereof. Her cities are a desolation, a dry land, and a wilderness, a land wherein no man dwelleth, neither doth any son of man pass thereby." Egypt is to be hurt so badly that no one will live there for 40 years. Eze. 29:10-12 says, "I will make the land of Egypt utterly waste and desolate, from the tower of Syene even unto the border of Ethiopia. No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years. And I will make the land of Egypt desolate in the midst of the countries that are desolate, and her cities among the cities that are laid waste shall be desolate forty years: and I will scatter the Egyptians among the nations, and will disperse them through the countries."
***From Marilyn: If you think these things have already happened, you are deluding yourself. They will happen right after this age ends and the millennial Day of the Lord begins. Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come." It also said, "at hand," but it has not happened yet. Agape PS: Isa. 13:6 says, "Howl ye; for the day of the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty." Because of this, would you think that the Day of the Lord happened in Isaiah's day? Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come." What is this? Does the Day of the Lord come in Isaiah's day and then again in Joel's day?
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