Pro and Con 639

Posted 11-18-00

DEATHS INCREASE ON PALESTINIAN ANNIVERSARY. London Times. 11-16-00: ôSeven Palestinians have been killed in fierce clashes in the West Bank and Gaza Strip today (Wed., 11-15) as demonstrators took to the streets to mark the anniversary of Yassir Arafat's symbolic declaration of independence 12 years ago."

Note: That would have been 11-15-1988. No wonder they wanted to declare a Palestinian state on 11-15.
VATICAN MAKES A PROPOSAL FOR JERUSALEM. 11-15-00. ETWN: "The Holy See has entered a new plea for international guarantees protecting access to the holy sites of Jerusalem. Speaking at the United Nations, during a debate on the status of Palestinian refugees, Archbishop Renato Martino said that Jerusalem's shrines should be protected against all sorts of political maneuvers. In the course of his address-- which was delivered on October 30, but made public by the Vatican on November 14-- the archbishop reiterated the Vatican view that there should be 'a statute guaranteed internationally to safeguard the holy places of Jews, Christians, and Muslims.'...Jerusalem should be seen as a common 'spiritual patrimony' for humanity. The "unique character" of Jerusalem as a city sacred to three great religions makes it essential that religious leaders, not politicians, control the holy sites..."
Pyramids lined up with the stars
By David Whitehouse
"Ancient Egyptian astronomers aligned the pyramids due north by using two stars that circle the celestial polar point....

...Nearly 4,500 years ago, each star was about 10 degrees from the celestial pole which lay directly between them. When one star was exactly above the other in the sky, astronomers could find a line that pointed due north.

But the alignment was only true for a few years around 2,500 BC. Before and after that time, the stars deviated from the north-south line and anyone using the stars to plot a direction would have made errors.

And it is these mistakes that a British Egyptologist now believes can be used to estimate very accurately when the pyramids were built. Her theory suggests that the Great Pyramid at Giza was constructed within 10 years of 2,480 BC....

The north-finding stars were Kochab, in the bowl of the Little Dipper (Ursa Minor), and Mizar, in the middle of the handle of The Plough or Big Dipper (Ursa Major)....

in...Nature, Kate Spence shows that the orientation errors of earlier and later pyramids faithfully track the slow drift of Kochab and Mizar with respect to true north...."

Note: Noah's son Shem was born in BC 2485. Noah's Flood was in BC 2387, when Shem was 98. I have wondered if giants built the pyramid at Giza. Since Spence's date of BC 2480 +/- 10 is pre-Flood, it makes it sound possible.

Incoming email

In pro & con 635 you explained to someone your perception of coming events and the dates you thought they would occur. You stated...

"(3) Mid-Tribulation, 3 1/2 years into the seven, Sunday, Cheshvan 23, Nov. 7, 2004...Satan is cast out of Heaven and down to Earth"

I assume this is in reference to Revelation 12:9 where satan is cast out of heaven and down to the earth. The reason the 2004 date you mentioned was interesting to me is because of another reference I saw to that year mentioned in a web site I read dealing with the prophetic significance of the great pyramid in Egypt as the reference to the scriptural sign mentioned in Isaiah 19:19-20 which says: "In that day shall there be an altar to the Lord in the midst of the land of Egypt, and a pillar at the border thereof to the Lord. And it shall be for a SIGN and for a WITNESS unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt."

...""...I thought it was very thought provoking. I would be interested in your review of this material... In Christ

My reply

I like to look into many things, sort out the good, throw the bad away, and reserve judgment for a later day on the rest. The article, WHO BUILT THE GREAT PYRAMID?, by John Zajac, is interesting, but several of the projected dates do not line up exactly with my previous understanding. I...think the Crucifixion was in 30 AD, not 33. I think Jesus was born in BC 5, not 2.

> > Each year the North Star shines further down the Descending Passage. It will illuminate the entrance to the Well 1997. The North Star will shine on the floor of the Subterranean Passage seven years later in 2004.

I knew that Alpha Draconis (Dragon)/Thuban (subtle) was the star the shaft lined up with when the pyramid was built, but I didn't remember that Polaris would line up in 2004, if I ever read that before. Since I expect Satan to be cast down to the Earth in 2004, that is the most interesting part.

In the gospel in the stars, Cepheus (Christ as King of kings and Lord of lords) now has his left foot just above Polaris. Alpha Draconis is in the tail of Draco. If Satan is to be cast out of heaven in 2004, this could symbolize Christ taking away the right of Satan to act any longer as the accuser in Heaven. He will evidently quit accusing those caught up in the 1st Rapture. He will then go after those who will be caught up in the last Rapture. He will be active on Earth from that point when the Great Tribulation begins until he is chained after Armageddon.

Rev. 12:9,10 says, "the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night." It may be that by Mid-Trib, all issues regarding the right of the Pre-Trib raptured ones to be honored as the Bride of Christ will be laid to rest. There probably wouldn't be a need of accusations against the ones caught up at the "last trump," because at the Pre-Wrath Rapture, every believer will be caught up to Heaven.

> > When years are substituted for inches, the Great Pyramid becomes a prophetic calendar. Dates shown include the alignment of the last Pole Star Draconis (Dragon Star) in 2141 B.C., the start of the Pyramid's contraction in 2623 B.C., the Exodus of the Israelites from Egypt in 1453 B.C., the death of Christ in 33 A.D., and the start of World War I in 1914....The triangle's length along the Ascending Passage of 33,512 Jewish inches places the intersection of the Queen's Chamber floor and the Ascending Passage at September 29, 2 B.C., the date of the birth of Christ....the horizontal base of the triangle in the Pyramid is 30,043 inches, or 3,469 inches short of the crucifixion, which corresponds to the date of October 14, 29 A.D., the date of Christ's baptism....

I think the Exodus was in BC 1530, Jesus' baptism in 26 AD, and the Crucifixion in 30 AD, so I'm not sure Zajac's other dates are correct.

> > the angle of the Ascending passage above the horizontal (26 degrees 18 minutes 9.63 seconds) line can be applied to a map of the area so that a line is drawn 26 degrees 18 minutes 9.63 seconds above the horizontal (east-west) line that bisects the Pyramid. That line then depicts the beginning and the end of the exodus of the Jews from where they were delivered from the Egyptians at the Red Sea to the crossing of the Jordan River into the Promised Land. This line also passes directly through the town of Bethlehem...

Incoming email

I have followed your website now for over 2 years and have learned so much. Thank you for sharing your knowledge with all of us. Please address how we should "occupy until His return". Some of us have children that are looking forward to a bright, beautiful future with families of their own. I have three sons (all saved) ranging in age from 7 to 21. We have all discussed the imminent return of Christ and to be ready; however, even I sometimes wrestle with my daily routines. Planning financially for my family - investments, life insurance, etc...Yes, yes I know where we are suppose to invest our resources, but we are still in the world and not of this world. Help me with how to raise my sons in a positive way. Am I suppose to say to my 21 year old "don't worry about a future wife and family because we won't be here very much longer?" My wife and I have told them that heaven will be more wonderful than we can ever imagine!

I hope I have made sense to you and that you can help me out.

My last wish is that you can explain to the verse that refers to God allowing satan to be loosed for awhile after the 1000 year reign of Christ. Will there really be those that will choose him over God? God bless you

My reply

Thanks for those kind words.

To me, occupy until I return means to live life here in a normal way. So what if it gets cut short to go to a better place. I don't think that will bother us any. If believers are ready, it doesn't matter if they marry and have children. The children will go too, so I see no need to worry about that.

I do think it is a bit silly of churches to start up a million dollar building program right now. It is so obvious that we are near the end of the age. We have one near here that is doing that. After visiting that church, I emailed the pastor and asked what he taught about the Rapture. He said, "I don't teach the Rapture." It shows.

Yes, there really will be those that will choose Satan's way over God's way. After having a perfect king during the Millennium, it is hard to see why, but another army will be assembled to fight Christ. That battle will never be fought. Fire will come down and destroy them. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Reason for Nov 17th server move
I believe that this move of your main server might be related to the escalation of events in prophecy. Basically to prevent you from updating the world on the correlation of scriptures to real events on a real-time basis.

With the present escalation of events in Israel it could be that this weekend could be the starting of the tribulation. I think that it is curious that the famous Leonid meteor shower will be taking place Nov. 17-18. Current web sites dealing with the shower indicate that although they don't think we have a potential for a meteor storm, this shower is HIGHLY UNPREDICTABLE. In 1833, many thought that the tribulation had started, because of the intensity of the shower.

Could it be that the portion of Revelation that talks about the dragon sweeping one third of the stars from the sky might refer to a huge meteor storm?...

I am concerned that under the protection of a severe meteor storm that there might be the potential for attacks to commence. What if, as was the concern last year during the Leonids, the various satellites circling the world are taken down by the shower, making it impossible for the nuclear powers to monitor situations around the world, much less communicate? If the Arabs, Chinese, Russians, etc. pick up on this, things could really explode (no pun intended). The shower is being said to maximize over North America, making us especially blind if a bad one hits.

I hope that these events do not come to pass, but the Lord works many things together for our good. In Christ. P.S. keep the faith and the site going!

My reply

I expect the enemy had his hand in the pie, but the more shenanigans he pulls, the more determined I am. Lord willing, I will keep right on posting as before. I now have my new email, I just UL Pro and Con 638 with my CoffeeCup Direct FTP program and Juno Web. Praise the Lord, it is possible to manage without pe for now. I even UL to pe by way of Juno. What a relief. Juno dropped the connection between the UL to each web site and twice before getting the email. It works slower than pe, but it will get the job done.

Note: does anyone know of a free email program that has a Riverside or Arlington, CA, phone number that won't drop the connection between ULs?

> > this weekend could be the starting of the tribulation.

I think we will probably wait until spring, maybe Ascension Day. After walking the mall 2 times today, I sat down to wait for Ed. I pulled out my NASB. II Thess. 2:13 has a note: "Some ancient mss. read first fruits." Here is what that verse says, "we should always give thanks to God for you, brethren beloved by the Lord. because God has chosen you FROM THE BEGINNING (or, chosen you FIRST FRUITS) for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and faith in the truth."

I turned to Song of Sol. 2. In v. 12, it says, "THE TIME HAS ARRIVED FOR PRUNING THE VINES." That reminds me of Isa. 18:3-6. It says, "All you inhabitants of the world and dwellers on earth, As soon as a standard is raised on the mountains (kingdoms), YOU WILL SEE IT, And as soon as the TRUMPET is blown, YOU WILL HEAR IT. For thus the LORD has told me, 'I will look from My dwelling place quietly Like dazzling heat in the sunshine, Like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest.' For BEFORE THE HARVEST, as soon as the bud blossoms And the flower becomes a ripening grape. THEN HE WILL CUT OFF THE SPRIGS WITH PRUNING KNIVES And remove (i.e., take away those with fruit at the Rapture) AND cut away the spreading branches (with no fruit). They will be left" (like the foolish virgins) together for mountain (kingdom) birds of prey, And for the beasts of the earth (the Beast and False Prophet): And the birds of prey will spend the SUMMER feeding on them, And all the beasts of the earth will spend HARVEST TIME (i.e., Feast of Weeks/Pentecost, when I think the 70th week of Daniel will start) on them." Ascension Day fits this time of pruning very well.

> > Could it be that the portion of Revelation that talks about the dragon sweeping one third of the stars from the sky might refer to a huge meteor storm?

I think it is talking about the fallen angels. Satan and the demons are cast down to Earth Mid-Trib.

> > I am concerned that under the protection of a severe meteor storm that there might be the potential for attacks to commence.

Jesus said that there were to be wars and rumors of wars, but he also said in Mt. 24:6, "see that ye be not troubled." He is in complete command. What is written will come to pass.

As for the meteor storm, it isn't supposed to be as bad this year as last due to the angle that we are crossing the meteor field... Agape

Incoming email

Re: Psalm 83 and the coming war in the Middle East
Psalm 83 speaks of a confederation of nations plotting to cut off Israel from being a nation. That confederation consists of Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan and the Palestians. Edom (where Esau went) is in Jordan. Ishamelites are the modern day Arabs descended from Ishmael. Moab and Ammon were two illegitimate sons of Lot through his daughters who inhabited what is modern day Jordan. The Hagarenes seems to be a reference to the Egyptian handmaid of Sarah. Gebal is in Lebanon. Assur (see Genesis 10) included Nineveh of ancient Assyria and refers to modern day Iraq and Syria. Tyre was a city of coastal Lebanon. Some translations mention Gaza which is where the Palestinians are located. Some Rabbis hold that Edom is a reference to the Palestinians. Asaph, the author of the psalm, then plead with God to destroy these enemies that "men may know that thou, whose name alone is Jehovah, art the most high over all the earth. This is extremely contemporary. The Muslim nations are meeting right now for the purpose of how to deal with Israel. After this war, one could imagine that the world would be ready to follow a leader who could promise them a resolution of conflicts of the Middle East. Meanwhile other nations e.g. Iran, Libya, Turkey, Russia will seethe with anger and jealousy towards Israel and eventually will participate in the battle of Ezekiel 38-39. Agape

My reply

I think by the time they attack Israel, it will be the united nation's army. Zech. 14:2 says, "I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle." Agape

Incoming email

In P&C 633 one of your readers questioned:
> > 1 Thess 4:16 is indeed the first trumpet? Or is there another way to know that it is definitely the first rapture that is being referred to here?
You responded:
> The 2 passages, I Thess. 4:13-18 and I Cor. 15:51,52, speak of the 2 Raptures. If one is the last, the other one has to be the first. The group caught up first is seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. The last group is seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:14. They are said to have come out of great tribulation, so they are the last group caught up.

** I agree with your answer totally, but let me add...In 1 Thess. 4-16 it says the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven to meet His Bride in the air. At the rapture that occurs at the last trump on the day of the Lord, Jesus does not meet them personally to get them as he does His Bride,...but sends His angels to gather the elect (the tribulation saints) from the four winds at the four corners of the earth (Mat. 24:31). Thus 1 Thess. 4:16 must be referring to the rapture of the Bride at the initial trump of God.

Also you said:
> At the Pre-Trib Rapture, one trumpet sounds to call the Bride group up to Heaven.
At the Pre-Wrath Rapture, both trumpets sound. The first blast calls the Bride saints from all parts of Heaven to the "general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge (the Judgment Seat of Christ is convening) of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect. And to Jesus" (Heb. 12:23,24).

** I agree but your reference to Hebrews 12:23, 24 is talking about the scene in the New Jerusalem on the day of the Lord after both the Bride and the tribulation saints are already raptured. The reference to the "general assembly", the massive majority (a number so great that it can't be numbered according to Rev.7) are the tribulation saints, the fruit of the latter rain harvest that takes place during the shortened tribulation. The "church of the firstborn", I believe is a reference to the Bride which are the first to be birthed or make their appearing with their resurrected bodies in the New Jerusalem. As you said, "and to God the Judge of all" is a reference to the judgment seat of Christ in which both of the groups just mentioned, the Bride (church of the first born) and the trib. saints (the general assembly), will be judged and rewards will be given. The reference to "the spirits of just men made perfect" is when both groups have immortality granted to them. 1 Cor. 15:53 says "and this mortal must put on immortality." Your Brother in Jesus

My reply

> > at the last trump on the day of the Lord, Jesus does not meet them personally to get them as he does His Bride, . . . but sends His angels to gather the elect (the tribulation saints) from the four winds at the four corners of the earth (Mat. 24:31).

I know what you mean, but I think you meant the reference to be Mk. 13:27. It says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Pre-Wrath Rapture of I Cor. 15:51,52) to the uttermost part of heaven" (to gather those previously caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture to the "general assembly of Heb. 12:23). Mt. 24:31 says, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other."

Lu. 17:36,37 says of the Pre-Wrath Rapture that is as the days of Lot, "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (Body of Christ) is (in Heaven), thither will the eagles (i.e., Tribulation saints) be gathered together." Isa. 40:31 says, "they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; THEY SHALL MOUNT UP WITH WINGS AS EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

> > I agree but your reference to Hebrews 12:23, 24 is talking about the scene in the New Jerusalem on the day of the Lord after both the Bride and the tribulation saints are already raptured.

...Heb. 12:23 does seem to fit the 2nd Rapture better than the 1st Rapture, because "Judge" is mentioned, also "the spirits of just men made perfect."

Nu. 10:2-4 says, "Make thee TWO TRUMPETS OF SILVER...that thou mayest use THEM (both) for the calling of THE ASSEMBLY, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with THEM (both), ALL (as in I Cor. 15:51) THE ASSEMBLY shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel (the elders), shall GATHER themselves unto thee."

This seems to agree that the general assembly is when ALL are assembled from both Earth and Heaven at the time of the 2nd Rapture on the 1st day of the Millennium. At the 1st Rapture, the elders and Bride saints are GATHERED around the throne in Heaven. This is when the voice Of Christ, "as it were of a trumpet," says, "Come up hither" (Rev. 4:1).

At the time of the 2nd Rapture, Joel 2:16 says, "Gather the people (Tribulation saints), sanctify the congregation, ASSEMBLE the elders (caught up in the 1st Rapture), gather the children, and those that suck the breasts (all children are gathered at the 2nd Rapture): let the bridegroom (Christ) go forth of his chamber, and the bride (Bride of Christ) out of her closet." Agape

Incoming email

God bless you and your family. Chuck Missler casually mentioned something on one of his tapes which caught my attention. During a teaching on Daniel 9, tying it in with the Feasts of Israel, he said that the Lord may choose to restart Israel's clock just when he stopped it. That would make it Palm Sunday, the day he presented himself as Messiah the King, as opposed to Pentecost, the day the church was born (i.e.,, did Israels' clock stop when the church's started)? The spring fits, just a thought.

My reply

Spring fits, and the Pre-Trib Rapture seems to be tied to the very BEGINNING of the grape season. Isa. 18:3-6 says, "ALL YE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign (sign or flag) on the mountains (kingdoms); and when he (the LORD) bloweth a TRUMPET (the first trump of God), hear ye. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest. For AFORE THE HARVEST, WHEN THE BUD IS PERFECT, AND THE SOUR GRAPE IS RIPENING IN THE FLOWER, HE (the LORD) SHALL BOTH CUT OFF THE SPRIGS (i.e., that have fruit) WITH PRUNING HOOKS, AND TAKE AWAY (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture) and cut down the branches (i.e., that don't have fruit). They shall be left (like foolish virgins) together unto the...beasts of the earth (the Beast and False Prophet): and the fowls shall SUMMER upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall WINTER upon them."

Unger's Bible Dictionary says that grapes begin to ripen in Sivan. Pentecost is Sivan 6, so it does not seem out of line to think that Ascension Day (10 days earlier) would be when "the sour grape is ripening in the flower." The head of the Body of Christ ascended that day, maybe we will too.

Song of Sol. 2:10-14 (NASB) says, "ARISE, my darling, my beautiful one, And come along. For behold, the winter is past, The rain (i.e., the latter rain of Nisan) is over and gone. The flowers have already appeared in the land; THE TIME HAS ARRIVED FOR PRUNING THE VINES. And the voice of the turtledove has been heard in our land. The fig tree has ripened its figs, And the vines in blossom have given forth their fragrance. ARISE, my darling, my beautiful one, And come along!'" "O my dove, in the clefts of the rock (i.e., in Christ), In the secret place of the steep pathway, Let me see your form, Let me hear your voice; For your voice is sweet, And your form is lovely.""

Psa. 47:5-9 says, "God is gone up with a SHOUT, the LORD with the sound of a TRUMPET. Sing praises to God, sing praises...unto our King...For God is the King of all the earth: sing ye praises with understanding. God reigneth over the heathen: God sitteth upon the THRONE of his holiness. The princes of the people (the elders) are gathered together, even the people of the God of Abraham..." Agape

Incoming email

You must forgive me if I came across as a big skeptic. I understand what you mean by saying that the word "knoweth" is used as a present tense word. I think that a lot of people, including my dad, have taken that scripture as a literal meaning for all. By that, I mean past, present, and future tense. I guess what I really want to know, is how did you come up with a "precise moment" that the Lord will come for his people. I have been reading a book entitled Left Behind, and it is the only book that I can truly say that has made me look deeper into what was written. Like I said earlier, I am not the biggest on religion. I only know what I have listened to in going to church with my family. I haven't been in a while, but that's a totally different story. I plan to talk to my father about what you have shown me, and I'm sure that he'll be surpised at the notion that I'm even interested in the Bible without being forced to. You gave entiely too many quotes fom the Bible as evidence of your findings. I haven't heard these type of findings, or interpretations from anyone. I look outside and see the world differently, and I think that my fiance is starting to become agitated that I continually want to talk about the coming of the Lord. I don't want to be "left behind", but with all the temptations in the world it's hard not to be left. It seems like I have to become a modern Pope in the middle of Hell. I'm 20 yrs old, and it's not like I have the mind set to following the Bible day in and day out. I have leaned the right way to pray for fogiveness. I pray for forgiveness, but I also ask God to help in stopping me from committing. I don't want to have to wash my robe in blood to have to get to heaven, and I know that I don't HAVE to. I know that the Lord is my Saviour, and he died for my sins. I know that he is a loving and caring God, but does that mean that all my sins, including those that I asked for help on, are wiped away everyday?!?! And is there a certain sin that can't be forgiven? I have heard that blasphemy unto the Lord will not be forgiven. If that is so, does sayin damn preceded by God constitute as blasphemy unto the Lord? Well I think I'm finish with my ongoing list of questions. Thank you for even replying to my e-mail. I hope to hear from you soon.

My reply

I was able to get my McAfee anti-virus program Update and finally found out how to check attachments for viruses, so I opened this one...

> > I don't want to have to wash my robe in blood to have to get to heaven, and I know that I don't HAVE to.

That just means that we have to confess all sins since we accepted Christ to bring them all under the blood of Christ. Jesus also called it washing Peter's feet. He just needed to confess a few new sins and was clean every whit.

I don't know the precise moment, but I now think next Ascension Day is most likely to be the day of the Rapture. Here are some verses I just wrote to send to someone else today. (omitted, because copied from the above)

> > I know that he is a loving and caring God, but does that mean that all my sins, including those that I asked for help on, are wiped away everyday?

All "old sins" (II Peter:1:9) when we first accept Christ are wiped off the books. We get a fresh start. Everything we know is sin after that should be confessed so Christ can cleanse us of ALL unrighteousness (I Jn 1:9).

> > is there a certain sin that can't be forgiven? I have heard that blasphemy unto the Lord will not be forgiven.

It was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. In Mt. 12:31, Jesus said, "All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men." R.B. Thieme, Jr. teaches that when Christ was on Earth, for someone to say that he did his miracles by the power of Satan/Beelzebub, etc. was not to be forgiven. Since he is not on Earth in the same way today, we can't commit that sin. Just be careful not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit, just in case. < < does sayin damn preceded by God constitute as blasphemy unto the Lord It is a sin that needs to be confessed. Agape

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