Pro and Con 642

Posted 11-22-00

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From: CAPS
I will continue to look into these matters. Your study of the scriptures and faithfulness will not go in vain. God will reward you with the correct understanding because of your seeking. I feel we are CLOSE to the correct understanding of the timing of the Rapture. Thanks for your response. Keep up your good work. God bless you and Ed.

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P&C 641 The Sabbath will start at 6 PM on our 18th. Marilyn, when I read the above P&C I got cold chills. I have prayed & prayed for an answer, I have had two very real dreams about the Rapture here is the kicker both were on the 18th of the month & very, very real. 1. Was May 18th. 00 at 5:28 AM
2. Was 5 months later Oct. 18 at 6:58 AM
He is coming soon, Dec. 23, 1999 I saw a huge pink cross in the western skies formed by clouds and the setting sun. In HIm

My reply

Thanks for sharing this. I get goose bumps when I learn something new, but they are not cold.

I said, "Since we are His sheep, could Mt. 12:11 indicate that we will be taken out of the Earth on the Sabbath? It says, " What man shall there be among you, that shall have one SHEEP, and if it fall into a PIT on the SABBATH DAY, will he not lay hold on it, and LIFT IT OUT?" Being taken out of a pit indicates the Rapture in Psa. 40:1-3. Ascension Day in 2001 can be Fri., Iyar 25 (May 18) or Sat., Iyar 26 (May 19), according to whether we count by Jewish inclusive reckoning or not. The Sabbath will start at 6 PM on our May 18th."

Jn. 10:7 says, "Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I AM THE DOOR OF THE SHEEP." Psa. 95:6,7 says, "O come, let us worship and bow down: let us kneel before the LORD our maker. For he is our God; and WE ARE THE PEOPLE OF HIS PASTURE, AND THE SHEEP OF HIS HAND."

Gen. 29:1-3 says, "Jacob went on his journey, and came into the land of the people of the east. And he looked, and behold a well in the field, and, lo, there were THREE FLOCKS OF SHEEP (i.e., humans from the Age of the Gentiles, the Age of the Jews, and the Age of the Church) lying by it; for out of that well they watered the flocks: and a great stone was upon the well's mouth. And thither were all the flocks gathered: and they rolled the stone from the well's mouth, and watered the sheep, and put the stone again upon the well's mouth in his place." The great stone may represent the asteroid that will hit Earth the day after the Age of the Church ends.

Psa. 40:1-3 says, "I waited PATIENTLY for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He BROUGHT ME UP also out of an horrible PIT (i.e., out of the Earth), out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established my GOINGS (at the Rapture). And he hath put A NEW SONG (sung after the Rapture, Rev. 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it (the Rapture), and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."

Jesus also healed people on the Sabbath. Healing will happen at the Rapture. The blind will see. Jn. 7:23 says, "If a man on the sabbath day receive circumcision, that the law of Moses should not be broken; are ye angry at me, because I HAVE MADE A MAN EVERY WHIT WHOLE ON THE SABBATH DAY?"Mk. 3:4,5 says, "Is it lawful to do good on the sabbath days, or to do evil? to save life, or to kill? But they held their peace. And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other." Lu. 13:16 says, "ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?" Jn. 5:9 says, "immediately the man was made whole, and took up his bed, and walked: and on the same day was the sabbath." Jn. 9:14 says, "it was the sabbath day when Jesus made the clay, and opened his eyes."

I Chr. 9:32 says, "the shewbread, to prepare it every sabbath." This is literally the paneh lechem, face bread. It comes on the sabbath, so Christ may come on the sabbath too. Agape

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Re: You go girl!!!
You are annointed, awesome, intelligent, patient, smart, warm, bright, studious, resourceful, loving, caring, generous, and RIGHT ON THE MARK with Erik in PC640!!!! I love the way you know just what to say, I was just astounded by your ability to set the truth in front of people!!, and at the same time renew my FAITH in being saved by FAITH!!! Thank you Marilyn!!!

My reply

Thanks, but oh, my goodness, aren't you afraid I'll get the big head? :-) Agape

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> > ERIK: I say that if you use JESUS WORDS ONLY from ONLY the gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke you will get a different picture of how to gain eternal life.

Jesus' ministry differed from Paul's. Jesus taught the Jews before his ascension on the 40th day after Firstfruits. Paul taught the Gentiles some time after the outpouring of the Holy Spirit on the 50th day/Pentecost in 30 AD. Rom. 15:8 and 15,16 shows this difference.


Verses 15 and 16 say, "because of the grace that is given to me (Paul) of God, That I SHOULD BE THE MINISTER OF JESUS CHRIST TO THE GENTILES, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost."


Col. 1:25 says, "Whereof I (Paul) am made a minister, according to the DISPENSATION OF GOD which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God."

Jesus had fulfilled the Law and the prophecies about him when he said, "It is finished" on the cross. Jn. 19:30 says, "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, IT IS FINISHED: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." He had done what he came to do.

Mt. 10:5-7 says, "These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, GO NOT INTO THE WAY OF THE GENTILES, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But GO RATHER TO THE LOST SHEEP OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL And as ye go, PREACH, saying, THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND." Agape

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How is it that some christians believe that when we die we soul sleep? that we do not have imortal souls. whats your take on this?

My reply

I don't believe that we soul sleep. It seems clear to me that the dead have all their senses. The account of the rich man and Lazarus in Lu. 16:19-31 shows that the dead can see, speak, hear, feel, think and remember.

Mt. 22:31,32 says, "But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living." At the Transfiguration, Moses and Elijah appeared and talked with Jesus. They are alive.

When we first accept Christ as our own personal Saviour, we have eternal life. It is awarded to us. Our soul will never die. However, it seems that after the last Rapture, all saints will be changed. I Cor. 15:53 says, "this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." Then what we had imputed to us will be ours in reality. As I understand it, before that day, our souls could die, but they won't. Jesus will not allow them to. After that day, our souls can't die. First, we are awarded immortality, as if it was credited to our account. Later, we are actually made immortal. Agape

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Re: antichrist
I'm fairly certain that the one that 'has the power to join Isreal and Palistine' is the antichrist. The person that gets Isreal and Palistine to sign a peace treaty is the antichrist. This is a sign to look out for. I was just wondering what was your oppinion on this subject.

***I think the Tribulation Pope is the Beast of Rev. 13:2-10. The False Prophet is "another beast" who is Satan-possessed in the middle of the 7-year Tribulation. He "spake as a dragon" (Rev. 13:11). When these 2 men sign the 7-year peace covenant (Dan. 9:27), the Tribulation will begin. I refer to them as the Beast and the False Prophet (as in Rev. 19:20), because many call the 1st beast the Antichrist. I think the False Prophet is the final Antichrist. He is the one that will be Satan-possessed. The Pope will, I think, be instrumental in bringing about the confirmation of the peace treaty.

***Revelation is written as if the Rapture were at hand. It is "at hand" in both the 1st and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). The Rapture has just happened in Rev. 17. Verse 14 says, "they that ARE with him (Christ) ARE called, and chosen, and faithful.

***In Rev. 12:3,9, we read about the great red dragon that is Satan. His tail casts 1/3rd of the angels to Earth. In Rev. 17:10,11, we find more details and can figure out what his heads and tail represent. The heads are world empires. Babel, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece and Imperial Rome are the five that have fallen at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture. One "is" at the time of the Rapture, the Pope, and one is yet to come, the False Prophet, who comes to full power Mid-Trib. He will be Satan possessed then, so he is both the False Prophet and the tail of the Great Red Dragon. After the False Prophet is deposed from office on the Day of God's Wrath, Satan comes out of him and operates on his own as "the eighth" of Rev. 17:11.

***Isa. 9:5 talks about the Beast and False Prophet. It says, "The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail." I think the ancient and honourable is the the Pope, and the Prophet that teacheth lies is the False Prophet. It is the False Prophet that is also the tail of the great red dragon, and therefore the final Antichrist.

I also was wondering what your input was on the Masonic orders

***I know enough to advise anyone to steer clear of them.

that are the servants of man, those that follow the antichrist. In signs like the star and shield in our law enforcement; the illuminati pyramid symbol on the back of the one dollar bill; what the small image, thought to be a spider on the 1 in the upper right hand corner of the back of the one dollar bill, is really (an owl?); the pentagon facing north; the squares on the hats of graduates; What are your oppinions on these, and what do you think they mean?

I don't know what they all mean. I just hope that when our money says "In God We Trust," that it doesn't mean the all-seeing eye.

I also noticed the other day that the symbol on the side of masonic lodges is a portion of a star. What do you think this means? And how do you think this will come into effect with the trib?

I don't know. I try to stick to the Bible. I know that in the last half of the Tribulation, people will accept the false Messiah who comes in his own name. Jn. 5:43, Jesus said, "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." This is the False Prophet. He is called "ANOTHER BEAST" in Rev. 13:11. He is called "ANOTHER LITTLE HORN" in Dan. 7:8. It says."I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them ANOTHER LITTLE HORN, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things. He is called "ANOTHER" in Dan. 7:24. It says, "And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and ANOTHER shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings."

One more thing, I was wondering what you're referring to when you mention the MSS.

It is an abbreviation for manuscripts. MS stands for one manuscript.

I read only the KJV (King James Version), and I've seen evidence to believe that other versions have been altered, 'changing the Word of God'. NIV and NKJ are obviously wicked.

***The KJV is my main study Bible, but I probably have over 18 versions, and I can learn from them all. Just today, I looked up Isa. 18:3-7 in just about all of them. Sometimes, a translator picks a different word from the possible ones he could use, and it makes something come clear that was not well understood before. After I look up interesting verses in all my versions, I generally end up knowing more about that passage than I did before.

On the cover of a New King James I had when I was younger, called the Explorer Bible, had a masonic symbol of the celtic order, RIGHT ON THE COVER!

Yes, I have seen that. As I understand it, the Masons/Freemasons make people think they are worshipping God at each step of the way, but in the end, it turns out to be the wrong entity. That is why it is a secret society. At each step, or degree, they are taught in such a way that they think they understand, but they don't understand the real truth. They are slowly being led astray.

Even in movies, they flaunt there standing before us. Why do you think the movie business is so profitable? Because they pay for it, it's conditioning us to accept more and more. We are slowly moving our boundaries. Anyway, I was just wondering what your stand point on this was, if you even knew about it. When I was first disclosed to this, I was astounded at how much things fell into place, and I could see signs in the Revelation were coming true. I just thought I'd share this little thought with you and the viewers out there. I'm only 18, and I can see this folding out before us. My prayers are with you all. God bless.

***God bless you too. Agape

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PA officials said the Palestinian leadership now intends to announce a state on Dec. 31, on the eve of the launching of the Fatah movement loyal to PA Chairman Yasser Arafat. On that date in 1965, Fatah carried out its first attack on Israel.

"The announcement of independence and of the realization of Palestinian sovereignty over Palestinian territories occupied by Israel in 1967 will coincide with the anniversary," Palestinian National Council chairman Salim Zaanoun said.

Zaanoun said the PLO Central Committee will meet at the end of December to discuss the issue.

The committee has three times postponed statehood amid a warning by some officials that a declaration would be useless without international recognition and support.

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thank you so much for your response. And yes to your Revelation 3:3 answer. I have told people over and over to turn it around for those people whom "ARE" Watching, as to what we will know. And is I believe will be the season in which we are in now. I also believe that the time of Jacobs Trouble started "exactly" on Rosh Hashana this year, as I have told you before. Anyways, thanks again, and keep up your great work doing Gods will. God Bless.

Note: Psa. 15:1,2 says, "Lord, who shall abide in thy tabernacle? who shall dwell in thy holy hill? He that walketh uprightly, and worketh righteousness, and speaketh the truth in his heart.

My reply

I believe that the time of Jacob's Trouble will be one single day, Rosh Hashanah, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007), the Day of God's Wrath, the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord, the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

Jer. 30:6-11 says, "see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? ALAS1 FOR THAT DAY IS GREAT, SO THAT NONE IS LIKE IT: IT IS EVEN THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE, but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will (7 Jewish months later, Eze. 39:12,13) raise up unto them. Therefore fear thou not, O my servant Jacob, saith the LORD; neither be dismayed, O Israel: for, lo, I will save thee (Gog's army is attacking) from afar (the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 will impact the Mediterranean Sea, Zeph. 2:4,5), and thy seed from the land of their captivity; and Jacob shall return, and shall be in rest (the Millennium), and be quiet, and none shall make him afraid. For I am with thee, saith the LORD, to save thee: though I make a FULL END OF ALL NATIONS whither I have scattered thee, yet I will not make a full end of thee: but I will correct thee in measure, and will not leave thee altogether unpunished."

Last Rosh Hashanah, did every man put his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, from terror? Did the asteroid strike the Earth? Did "ALL NATIONS" get punished? Has the day come when the Palestinian's yoke has been broken off Israel's neck? Has the time come when the Second Advent is only 7 months away?

Did hail fall last Rosh Hashanah? Job 38:22,23 asks, "hast thou seen the treasures of the hail, Which I have reserved against THE TIME OF TROUBLE, against THE DAY OF BATTLE AND WAR?"

Did the 2nd Rapture take place? Psa. 27:5 says, "For in THE TIME OF TROUBLE he shall hide me in his pavilion (Heaven): in THE SECRET OF HIS TABERNACLE (the Holy of Holies is the 3rd cube of the Tabernacle, Heaven is the 3rd heaven, II Cor. 12:2, i.e., 1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, 3. Saturn) shall he hide me; he shall set me up upon a rock (the 3rd planet)."

To picture this, imagine 2 spheres inside the Holy Place and 1 sphere inside the foursquare Holy of Holies. A cube represents the sphere that will fit inside it. The "length and the breadth and the height" of the sphere of New Jerusalem (Rev. 21:16) are the same measures as those of the cube. Thus the spherical city is said to be "foursquare" like the Holy of Holies, LIKE THE EARTH. Isa. 11:12 says, "he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH." We know that the Earth is a sphere. We also know that every planet in our Solar System is a sphere. All can be said to be foursquare as to dimensions where the length, breadth and height are equal. Those dimensions of a box are equal to the dimensions of a sphere that just fits inside the box.

Dan. 12:1,2 says, "at that time (when the False Prophet comes to his end, Dan. 11:45) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: AND AT THAT TIME THY PEOPLE SHALL BE DELIVERED, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." The time of Jacob's trouble is the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Agape

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Re: Tribulation Tabernacle: A TENT OR A TEMPLE?

"In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old" - Amos 9:11.

Most of the minor prophets emphasis has to do with The Day of the Lord. Some scholars believe this period to be made up of two periods: one consisting of 7 years, another consisting of 993 years, for a total of 1,000 years.

From a logistical standpoint, which I emphasize is secondary, I always thought that it would take TOO much time to rebuild the temple during the tribulation in order for prophecy to be fulfilled (its use during the first portion, its abomination during the midpoint, etc.). Remember the Pharisee's comment, "This temple was forty-six years in the building." Forty-six is the number of man (number of humans's X-Y chromosomes; etc.), and this will be G-d's work.

Have you read any of J.R. Church's books? He also believes it will be a tent. Read

At Jesus' first coming, popular religious assumptions that did not line up with scripture were proven wrong. Will it not be so with the second coming as well?

My reply

I don't know if the Tribulation temple could be a tent, but Amos 9 doesn't tell us. It is talking about the Day of God's Wrath (when the asteroid will impact the Mediterranean Sea), the Second Advent (which is 7 months later, Eze. 39:12,13), and the regathering of Israel in the millennial Day of the Lord.

Amos 9:4-14, says, "though they go into captivity before their enemies, thence will I command the sword (the Sword of the Lord is the binary asteroid of Rev. 8:8,10), and it shall slay them: and I will set mine eyes upon them for evil, and not for good. And the Lord GOD of hosts is he that toucheth the land, and it shall melt, and all that dwell therein shall mourn: and it shall rise up wholly like a flood; and shall be drowned, as by the flood of Egypt. It is he that buildeth his stories (as 3 stories in Noah's Ark) in the heaven (the 3rd heaven), and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea (the Mediterranean, Zeph. 2:4,5), and poureth them out upon the face of the earth...the eyes of the Lord GOD are upon the sinful kingdom, and I will destroy it from off the face of the earth; saving that I will not utterly destroy the house of Jacob, saith the LORD....In that day (the Day of the Lord) will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old...I will bring again the captivity of my people of Israel, and they shall build the waste cities, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and drink the wine thereof; they shall also make gardens, and eat the fruit of them."

Isa. 16:5 says, "in mercy shall the throne be established: and he shall sit upon it in truth in the tabernacle of David, judging, and seeking judgment, and hasting righteousness."

Later, Christ will return to Heaven and David will rule again on Earth. He will be a prince under the King of kings. Jer. 30:9 says, "they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them." Eze. 34:23,24 says, "I will set up one shepherd over them, and he shall feed them, even my servant David; he shall feed them, and he shall be their shepherd. And I the LORD will be their God, and my servant David a prince among them; I the LORD have spoken it." Eze. 37:25 says, "they shall dwell in the land that I have given unto Jacob my servant, wherein your fathers have dwelt; and they shall dwell therein, even they, and their children, and their children's children for ever: and my servant David shall be their prince for ever." Hos. 3:5 says, "Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek the LORD their God, and David their king; and shall fear the LORD and his goodness in the latter days."

> > The Day of the Lord. Some scholars believe this period to be made up of two periods: one consisting of 7 years, another consisting of 993 years, for a total of 1,000 years.

I think that the Millennium is 1000 years. The Tribulation isn't part of it because Mal. 4,5 shows that Elijah must come before the Day of the Lord arrives. The Tribulation is the ends of the ages. I Cor. 10:11 says, "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (lit., the consummation of the ages) are come." There are three 2000-year ages, the Age of the Gentiles, the Age of the Jews, and the Age of the Church. In Dan. 9:27, we can clearly see that the Age of the Jews has a 7-year 70th week of Daniel to run. I think all the ages will have this same extension and end in a photo finish as the millennial Day of the Lord begins.

> > From a logistical standpoint, which I emphasize is secondary, I always thought that it would take TOO much time to rebuild the temple during the tribulation in order for prophecy to be fulfilled (its use during the first portion, its abomination during the midpoint, etc.).

The only thing that has to be set up at the beginning of the Tribulation is the altar. The Jews begin to sacrifice then ( Dan. 8:13,14). A temporary tent might seem to make sense, but it would get in the way of construction if it was set up where the temple should be built. I wonder if the temple could be constructed during the 1st half of the Tribulation and the False Prophet desecrate it at its dedication Mid-Trib.

Rev. 11:1,2 says, "there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, RISE, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months."

The time is when the Rapture takes place, when the spiritual temple of God rises to meet the Lord in the air. The 1260 days of the 2 witnesses' prophesying will be after the Rapture. Verse 2 says, "the holy city SHALL they (the Gentiles) tread under foot forty and two months." Verse 3 says, "I WILL give power unto my two witnesses, and they SHALL prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days."

If this is what it indicates, it supports a gap between the Pre-Trib Rapture and the Tribulation. In Hos. 2:9 in the Literal Concordant Bible, the Lord says, "I WILL RETURN, and take (KJV, 'take away,' i.e., at the Raptures) My grain in its SEASON (a spring Pre-Trib Rapture, not necessarily a feast day) And My grape juice in its APPOINTMENT" (the Pre-Wrath Rapture at the vintage on a feast day, Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets). Ascension Day would fit this picture for the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Jer. 5:24 says, "Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former (First Advent, Tishri 1) and the latter (Second Advent, Nisan 1), in his (Christ's) season: HE RESERVETH UNTO US THE APPOINTED WEEKS OF THE HARVEST."

There are 7 weeks plus one day from the Feast of Firstfruits till Pentecost. Ascension Day is 10 days before Pentecost, during the weeks of the counting of the omer. Barley is harvested during this time, and Boaz (kinsman redeemer) gave Ruth (Gentile bride) 6 measures of barley after he had been winnowing barley on his threshing floor that night (Ruth 3:2,15,17). Ruth got the grain and the chaff was blown away. Ruth 3:15 says, "he measured six measures of barley, and laid it on her: and she went into the city" (Bethlehem, the house of bread, 1:22). Food for thought.

I have read Secrets in the Psalms, but am not at all sure that J.R. Church is right about that. Agape

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Here's an item from today's Worldwatch site:

Banking with a Chip!

According to one of our readers, Donna Danna of New York, Fleet Bank of New York talked about a person banking with a forehead chip last week. She said, On Nov. 8, around 8:45 p.m. (EST) while watching Who Wants To Be A Millionaire? I saw another Fleet Bank commercial about banking with a chip in the head. This time it was on WABC, Channel 7, instead of FOX 5, which I had seen the previous week. (Both are New York City television broadcasting stations.)

She continued, Also this time, the TV commercial began with one day you will have a chip installed in your head to do your banking." The commercial I saw recently on FOX 5 began with one day soon you will be doing your banking with a chip in the forehead."

And she adds, While I know the Bible prophesy of Rev. 13:15-18 about taking the mark of the beast in the forehead or in the right hand in order to buy or sell must be fulfilled, it makes me wonder who the owner of Fleet Bank is that hes spending millions on this TV commercial, and just exactly when does he plan to have people bank with a chip in their head?

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