Pro and Con 646

Posted 11-28-00

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Barak resigns, triggering election
Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, under fire for failing to quell a Palestinian uprising, said he was ready to hold a snap general election to choose a prime minister and parliament.

"You want elections. I am ready for elections, general elections for prime minister and the Knesset (parliament)," he told parliament in a speech broadcast on television.

"The date will be decided in the coming days in coordination between parties."

Barak was elected in May 1999 for a four-year term but has been under a barrage of criticism over his handling of peace talks with the Palestinians and a two-month-old uprising by protesters demanding independence.

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Re: Will the AntiChrist please stand
NOTE: in this excerpt from the JP a call is going out for a very special man to come forth.
Jerusalem Post, Sun., 11-26-00, Heshvan 28, 5761 Washington's lame duck, By Daniel Bloch

...There is no military solution for ending the violence - it will be found only at the negotiating table. Unfortunately, the only realistic partner is Arafat. In the past we might have had alternative partners, but we rejected them, thanks partly to the Americans....

Now we are in urgent need of an objective and honest broker who shares the confidence of all sides to bring us to the negotiating table, while reducing tension and violence. America cannot do it, Russia has no serious clout. The solution must be found elsewhere, perhaps in one of the European Union countries. Someone must present both sides with a way out before it is too late for a peaceful solution.

My reply

Thanks. They will probably turn to the Pope.

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TEHRAN, Nov 26 (AFP)-Officials and scholars from Iran, Egypt, Greece and Italy met here Sunday to denounce globalisation at a conference on the dialogue of ancient civilisations.

Echoing the "dialgoue of civilisations" that President Mohammad Khatami has made one of the centrepieces of his cultural and political platform, the seminar is aimed at promoting peace and also preserving cultural differences.

"The cooperation of these nations which represent ancient civilisations can change the world and open new roads for dialogue," Iranian parliamentary speaker Mehdi Karubi said in an opening speech.

Karubi, a close Khatami ally, called for a "universal understanding" between cultures and said that globalisation should not mean victory for some cultures at the expense of others.

"Globalisation must respect equality, respect the beliefs of everyone, and not play down their differences," he said.

Luciano Violante, the head of the Chamber of Deputies or Italy's lower house of parliament, said the international community "has a deep need for culture to preserve different identities."

He made reference to the "misunderstandings between European and Islamic cultures" as well as the "negative" image Islam often has in the eyes of Europe.

"Muslim countries look at the West as one entity, without making a distinction between the Europeans and the North Americans," he said.

Emanuele Severini, a philosophy professor in Venice, said: "The dialogue between peoples cannot be based on faiths or religions such as Christianity or Islam, but on an attitude that Christianity and Islam have in common, which is philosophical thinking."

The leader of the Greek delegation to the conference, Vassilios Karasmanis, spoke of the "differences and similarities between civilisations, and the creation of a worldwide ethics."

The presence of the former interim president of Egypt, Sufi Abu Taleb, was a political fact in itself given that Tehran and Cairo do not have full diplomatic relations.

He said that Egypt "acords a great importance to this dialogue," adding: "In our modern world, we speak of the clash of civilisations. But the ancient civilisations from which we descend sought out what they had in common."

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Re: Dark Ages
I had a prof. when I went to grad. school who was an expert in millenial movements--ones that try to bring a paradise to Earth. For many people, extreme catastrophe leads to them finding their whole view of life--religion, government, laws, moral values, etc.--as defective. These are thrown out and new views are adopted in their place. For example, there was a movement in the Middle Ages that in response to Black Death rejected Catholic Church, turned violent, and tried to exterminate the Jews. This movement's goal was to bring a paradise to Earth. The Catholic Church stomped out this movement but with great difficulty. The point being that for this whole AntiChrist, One-world religion, and one-world gov. thing to take place there would need to be some kind of catastrophe first that would cause people to throw out their old ways of thinking and develop a totally new way of viewing reality.

Therefore, I believe a major catastrophe will precede the coming to power of the evil system we see in tribulation. That major catastrophe could be the rapture, or an asteroid strike, or the combination of both. Or, it could be something else.

My reply

I can't see any asteroid impacting Earth until the strike of the Sword of the Lord on the Day of God's Wrath. On that day, I think a binary asteroid that splits apart will strike Earth (Rev. 8:8,10). Civilization as we know it will be destroyed. Every wall will fall in the worldwide earthquake (Eze. 38:20). The cities of the nations will fall. Rev. 16:18-19 says, "there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath."

Right now, it is the Holy Spirit that is hindering the appearance of the False Prophet, that wicked one, the son of perdition. After the Holy Spirit quits restraining the appearance of the False Prophet at the Rapture, God will send a delusion that will bring to pass the things that are prophesied.

II Thess. 2:1-12, in the Concordant Literal New Testament, says, "NOW (Pre-Trib) we are asking YOU, brethren (believers), for the sake of the PRESENCE of our Lord Jesus Christ and OUR ASSEMBLING TO HIM (at the Rapture), that YOU (believers) be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be alarmed, either through spirit, or through word, or through an epistle as through us, as that the DAY OF THE LORD (the Millennium) is present. No one should be deluding YOU (believer's) by any method, for, should not the apostasy (apostasia, THE DEPARTURE, the Rapture) be coming FIRST and the man of lawlessness by unveiled, the son of destruction, who is opposing and lifting himself up over everyone termed a god or an object of veneration, so that he is seated in the temple of God, demonstrating that he himself is God? (Mid Trib)...And NOW (Pre-Trib) YOU (believer's) are aware what (the Holy Spirit) is detaining, for him (the False Prophet) to be unveiled in HIS OWN ERA (the Tribulation). For the secret of lawlessness is already operating. Only when the present detainer (the Holy Spirit indwelling believers) may be COMING TO BE OUT OF THE MIDST (at the Rapture), THEN (after the Rapture when the Tribulation is beginning) will be unveiled the lawless one (whom the Lord Jesus will despatch with the spirit of His mouth and will discard by the advent of His presence), whose presence is in accord with the operation of Satan, with all power and signs and false miracles and with every seduction of injustice among THOSE (unbelievers) who are perishing, because THEY (unbelievers) do not receive the love of the truth for THEIR (the unbeliever's) salvation. And therefore God will be sending THEM (the unbelievers) an operation of deception, for THEM to believe the falsehood, that all (unbelievers) may be judged who do not believe the truth, but delight in injustice."

The deception is for unbelievers, not believers. The passage begins mentioning believers NOW, but ends mentioning unbelievers THEN. Before the "COMING TO BE OUT OF THE MIDST," "YOU" believers are spoken to. After the "COMING TO BE OUT OF THE MIDST," it switches to speaking of "THOSE" unbelievers.

The turning point is the Pre-Trib Rapture, when, at "OUR ASSEMBLING TO HIM," our DEPARTURE and the "COMING TO BE OUT OF THE MIDST," the Holy Spirit will no longer hinder the revealing of the False Prophet. He will be revealed when he confirms the covenant as the Tribulation begins. Agape

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Re: Jubilee
the only "firm" date scriptures that are still to be "figured out" are those of Hosea ch. 6. The context of the end of ch. 5 clearly shows the timing of this section is the First coming of Jesus. Israel, even then, was a type of Jesus". I have called my FIRSTBORN out of Egypt" etc. The 2000 years therefore must be started at the time of the crucifixion---if the reader is to go by the context of the passage. 2000 years is 40 Jubilees of 50 years each. I can only conclude that these 2000 years are to be measured in 360 day years since the LAST 3 1/2 years of this period is measured that way per Revelation chapters 11,12,&13.

The Biblical principle of 40 times of punishment for what was being rejected was evident in this rejection of Jesus at the time of the Crucifixion. Jesus was in effect presenting Himself as THE Jubilee. He said," If you had known , even this day , the things that make for your Peace...." That seems to be Jubilee Language. 2000 years converted to 360 day years equals 1971.25 of our calendar years. If the crucifixion was in 33 A.D . then the ENDING of this 2000 year period would be 33.25 plus 1971.25 equaling 2004.50. That would appear to be the time of the 2nd coming in power to Israel---they will "live in His sight." The Rapture would be , I think, 3 1/2 years before that time or in 2001.

The Jubilee then may only apply to the nation of Israel, in the physical sense, since the Christian has already entered his/her Rest, as mentioned in Hebrews ch. 4

I believe Hosea 6 is the most clearly established base form which an accurate projection of the Rapture can be calulated. God bless.

My reply

> > The 2000 years therefore must be started at the time of the crucifixion---if the reader is to go by the context of the passage.

Hos. 5 and 6 are very interesting. As chapter 5 ends, we hear the LORD of hosts, the Redeemer, i.e., Jesus Christ (Isa. 44:6, Rev. 22:13,16), speaking. Then as chapter 6 begins, suddenly, Israel is speaking. Hos. 5:6-10,15 says, "They shall seek the LORD; but they shall not find him; he hath withdrawn himself from them (on Ascension Day, 30 AD). They have dealt treacherously against the LORD: for they have begotten strange children: now shall a MONTH (chodesh, new moon, i.e., Feast of Trumpets) devour them with their portions. Blow ye... the.TRUMPET... Ephraim shall be desolate in the DAY OF REBUKE (Day of God's Wrath): among the tribes of Israel have I MADE KNOWN THAT WHICH SHALL SURELY BE. The princes of Judah were like them that remove the bound: therefore I will pour out MY WRATH upon them like water....I (the LORD Jesus Christ) will (in 30 AD) go and RETURN TO MY PLACE (ascend to Heaven), till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their AFFLICTION (Day of God's Wrath, Day of Jacob's Trouble, Feast of Trumpets, 2007) they will seek me early" (the nation will be saved in a day, Isa. 66:8).

In Hos. 6:1-3, we hear Israel speaking, "Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten (before c. BC 780 when this was written, when the 70-year captivity started), and he will bind us up. After two days (2 millenniums) will he revive us: in the third day (in the 3rd millennium) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight (fulfilled in 1948). Then (i.e., after that) shall we know (Sign of the End of the Age, 1967, made it possible to figure out timing of the end of the age), if we follow on to know the LORD: his (the LORD Jesus Christ's) going forth is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." Jesus Christ came as the former rain on Tishri 1, I think in BC 5. He will come as the latter rain on Nisan 1, I think on Apr. 6, 2008 (Nisan 1, 5768), on the anniversary of the Crucifixion on Apr. 6, 30 AD.

In De. 11:14, the Lord said, I will give you the rain of your land (Israel) in HIS SEASON (Christ's season), the first (or former) rain and the latter rain." Psa. 72:6 says, "HE SHALL COME DOWN LIKE RAIN upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth." We know from Eze. 29:17,21 that the Second Advent is on the first day of the first month (Nisan 1, Eze. 45:18,21). Verse 17 says, "in the first month, in the first day of the month" (Nisan 1). Verse 21 says, "In that day (Nisan 1) will I cause the horn (king) of the house of Israel (i.e., Christ) to bud forth, and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (the Word, or Logos) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD." Since the latter rain starts on the first of the month, it is likely that the former rain started on the first of the month and that Jesus was born on Tishri 1.

Psa. 72:6 says, "HE SHALL COME DOWN LIKE RAIN upon the mown grass: AS SHOWERS that water the earth." Psa. 65:9 says, "Thou VISITETH THE EARTH, and waterest it: thou greatly enrichest it with the river of God, which is full of water" (symbol of the Spirit of God). Jer. 2:12,13 says, "Be astonished, O ye heavens, at this, and be horribly afraid, be ye very desolate, saith the LORD. For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken ME THE FOUNTAIN OF LIVING WATERS, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water."

I think they the 2000 years started when the 70-year captivity started in 3520 AH (BC 523). Jesus Christ was resurrected in the third 24-hour day. The nation of Israel was raised up in the third 1000-year day. The captivity began in BC 523 was 2470 years before Israel again became a nation in 1948 AD. The extra 470 years were in the 3rd millennium after the captivity began.

> > The Biblical principle of 40 times of punishment for what was being rejected was evident in this rejection of Jesus at the time of the Crucifixion.

Yes. That generation was to have Jerusalem and the temple burned in 40 years (30 AD to 70 AD). In Mt. 23:36, Jesus told the Pharisees, "Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation." They did, in 70 AD. It was just as Eze. 4:6 said, "thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year."

Another interesting thing. From Nisan 8, in 30 AD, when Jesus came to Bethany before Palm Sunday, to the burning of the temple proper on Av 10 in 70 AD, was 40 years plus another 120 days. In our times, from Iyar 28 (when Israel took the rest of Jerusalem in 1967) to Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007) is 40 years plus another 120 days. Tishri 1, 5768 is 7 good years and 7 bad years past the ratification of the Oslo Accords in Israel on Tishri 1, 5754 (in our 1993). The Accords were signed 3 days before that in the US, on Sept. 13, 1993. Add the 7 good years and the 7 bad years, as when Joseph was in Egypt, and you again come to Sept. 13, 2007, which is Tishri 1, 5768. Thus, the Oslo Accords seem to be a sign of the end of the age. I think this age ends as Tishri 1, 5768 begins.

> > I believe Hosea 6 is the most clearly established base form which an accurate projection of the Rapture can be calulated.

It helps us figure out when the Second Advent will be. Once we know that, counting off the preceding Tribulation is fairly easy, and we know that the Pre-Trib Rapture will be before that (I think the 70th week of Daniel/Tribulation will start on the Feast of Weeks in 2001. I expect that we will be in Heaven by that day, Sivan 6, 5761 (May 28, 2001).

The shortened Tribulation is 2300 days (Dan. 8:13,14), and there are another 7 months (Eze. 39:12,13) between that Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent. There are 2300 days between Sivan 6, 5761 (May 28, 2001) and the Feast of Trumpets on Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). Seven months later is the Second Advent, on Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008), the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year--Regnal because he is King of kings, and sacred because he is Lord of lords. It all works out, and each event is on an appropriate day. Agape

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Have you heard about "Digital Angel". A bio-microchip #666; that can only work if implanted in the right hand or forehead! Go to and read. The mark of the beast?! See ya

My reply

Yes, thanks.

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Re: Bind them in bundles!
ST.Matthew:chapter13 verse30, Let both grow(wheat and tares) together until the harvest:and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares,and bind them in bundles to burn them:but gather the wheat into my barn.The first gathering is taking place right now,the tares are being bundled together under different church names,or should I say ALL church names.there,s many bundles on sunday morning,come OUT from among them and be ye separate say,s the Lord and I will receive you!It,s time to follow Gods Word,Time is running out quickly.It is time to get oil for YOURSELF!
PS: Too get Burned under the Lord,s judgement is not to be taken lightly,I found out the hard way.God Bless

My reply

I am not sure what the bundles represent, but those gathered together to be burned are the unsaved. This is not the easiest parable to understand. I wondered about it for many years. I hope I have it figured out correctly now.

The field is the world (lit., kosmos). The wheat are the children of the kingdom of heaven. The tares are the children that Satan sends among them. They are the unsaved. The time is the main harvest, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, at the end of this Age. As soon as these are raptured, the fire falls. It is the Day of God's Wrath.

Mt. 13:39,40 says, "The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world (lit., consummation of the age); and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world (age)." At that time the "great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" will stand "before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes" (Rev. 7:9). Then the fire will fall like it did on Lot's day.

With that in mind, let's read Mt. 13:30: "Let both grow together until the harvest (on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord): and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers (the angels), Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn" (in heaven). Lu. 17:29 says, "the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all." That is what will happen on the 1st day of the Millennium.

Mt. 13:41-43 says, "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear.

Rev. 14:14-19 deals with this same time. The 1st reaping is of the wheat at the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Then the tares are cast into the winepress of the wrath of God. This passage says, "I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man (Christ), having on his head a GOLDEN CROWN (it is Coronation Day), and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped (i.e., the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place). And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the WRATH OF GOD." Agape

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In reading your file on " God's Time Clocks," you make reference to Adam being cast out of the Garden some 40 years after his creation. How did you derive at this "40 Year " explanation ? I don't recall the Gensis account revealing any specified period of time of he and Eve's expulsion from the Garden. It would seem unlikely that Adam and Eve would have waited some forty years before conceiving Cain which we know occurred after they committed high treason and thus removed from the Garden. Look forward to your reply

My reply

I had made 2 charts, one of the Dispensations, the other of the Ages. A draftsman who came to our house to study the Bible with me said he would put them together and draw it to scale for me. He came back the next day saying that he stayed up till midnight working on it and the only way they would fit together was if the Dispensation of Innocence was before the Age of the Gentiles began. I didn't believe him at first, but as I worked on Bible chronology, I realized that he was right.

It makes sense, because the number 40 means testing in the Bible. The 1st Adam being tested 40 years, and the 2nd Adam (Jesus) being tested 40 days in the wilderness fits. Adam was given dominion. He was the king. Saul (Acts 13:21), David (I Chron. 29:27), and Solomon (I Ki. 11:42) each ruled 40 years, the number of testing. That shows God's control. He sets up kings, and he puts down kings. Out of that testing, only David earned the right to rule again during the Millennium. Jer. 30:9 says, "they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them."

The spies sent in to search the promised land were tested 40 days (Nu. 13:25). Only Joshua and Caleb earned the right to enter the land. All Israel was tested 40 years in the wilderness before going into the land (Nu. 14:33). Joshua 5:6 says, "the children of Israel walked forty years in the wilderness, till all the people that were men of war, which came out of Egypt, were consumed, because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD: unto whom the LORD sware that he would not shew them the land, which the LORD sware unto their fathers that he would give us, a land that floweth with milk and honey." Today, Israel is being tested another 40 years before those that will not obey the Lord are consumed and the ones that obey are given all of the promised land. Ex. 24:18 says, "Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights." Israel was being tested during those 40 days too. They failed and worshiped the golden calf.

Gen. 25:20 says, "Isaac was forty years old when he took Rebekah to wife. Today, I think the Marriage of the Lamb will take place 40 years after the Sign of the End of the Age, when Israel grew leaves (Gaza, Sinai, West Bank and Golan Heights) in the Six-Day War of 1967.

Gen. 7:17 says, "the flood was FORTY DAYS upon the earth; and the waters increased, and BARE UP the ark, and it was LIFT UP ABOVE THE EARTH." This would fit the Rapture if it happened on the 40th day of counting the Omer, on Ascension Day. This is when the Ark was said to be lifted up above the Earth. The Ark represented Christ, the Saviour. Noah and his family were as if in Christ. Today, those that are in Christ are about to be lifted up above the Earth to meet the Lord in the air and be taken to HIS PLACE, Heaven. The Rapture could happen next Ascension Day, the 40th day of counting the Omer. The number 40 reverberates throughout the Bible.

As for Cain, I don't think we are told Adam's age at his birth. The genealogy starts with Adam being 130 when Seth was born. There is a lot that we are not told. However, we know that the Lord was in charge all the time. We are just told what we need to know. Agape

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Re: The Days of Awe
In P&C 593 you were discussing the "ten days of persecution". Just before I read this I had read an article by Gary Stearman in the September issue of Prophecy in the News magazine. The article was intitled "The Battle Over Jerusalem." See if you think this will be when the days days are located in the events soon to unfold.
Rosh HaShannah (September 29) introduces ten "Days of Awe," a period that the Jews call 'Yomim Noraim'. This awesome period begins with the two days of Rosh HaShanna, then extend for eight more to the tenth day-Yom Kippur-. These are the High Holy Days, when observant Jews look inward to examine themselves in the light of God's righteousness. The prominent themes of this period are 'repentance', 'judgement' and 'atonement' on the basis of the preceeding year's transgression's.

The faithful Jewswish each other "L'Shanah Tovah"- Happy New Year. they also exhort each other with the word's "May you be inscribed for a good year in the BOOK OF LIFE!. In the days between Rosh HaShannah and Yom Kippur, the greeting often include's an additional blessing: "May you be inscribed and SEALED for a good life"!

Do you think this is when the 144,000 will be sealed. Maybe this blessing they have been bestowing on each other for centuries is a prophecy that will occur during this 10-day period one year. I know you were talking about 10-days of persecution of Christians but do you think maybe this period is a 10-day persecution of Jews and Christians which could somehow wake the 144,000 up to accept Yashua as Savior and be Sealed, especially if the rapture happen's on the eve of Rosh HaShanna. Agape

My reply

Sorry to be so long in replying. I expect the 144,000 to be sealed on the Feast of Trumpets, just before the Pre-Wrath Rapture. They are mentioned in Rev. 7 just before the great multitude that comes out of the Great Tribulation is seen before the throne in Heaven. Right afterward, the 7th seal is broken in Rev. 8. Out of the 7th seal come the 7 trumpet judgments on the Day of God's Wrath.

The type is in Eze. 9:2-6. It says, "six men came from the way of the higher gate, which lieth toward the north, and every man a slaughter weapon in his hand; and one man among them was clothed with linen, with a writer's inkhorn by his side: and they went in, and stood beside the brasen altar. And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side; And the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a MARK upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, GO YE AFTER HIM THROUGH THE CITY, AND SMITE: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the MARK; and begin at my sanctuary." The sealing precedes the slaying, but not by 7 years. Agape

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