Pro and Con 652

Posted 12-7-00

See article and pictures of Mars. There is new evidence of lots of water having been there. The clarity of the pictures is astonishing. http://spaceflightnow.com/news/n0012/04marslakes/

My outgoing email

Re: A PENTECOST RAPTURE. Cc:---

Thanks to both of you for sending me information on the time of harvests in Israel. It helps to put our heads together.

As hard as I try to explore other possibilities, I can't get away from Pentecost for the Rapture. Something always brings me back. There will be a trumpet at the Rapture. Trumpets were to sound on the first of each month and on all Feast days. None was to sound on Ascension Day. That brings me right back to Pentecost.

I Thess. 4:16,17: "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a SHOUT, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air." Ex. 19:13 says, "when the TRUMPET soundeth long, they shall COME UP TO THE MOUNT" (Sinai, symbol of the Sanskrit "Sani," Saturn, i.e., Heaven). Ex. 19:16 says, "And IT CAME TO PASS ON THE THIRD DAY (1998 + 3 = 2001) in the morning, that there were THUNDERS and lightnings, and a thick cloud upon the mount, and the voice of the TRUMPET exceeding loud." Ex. 19:19,20 says, "And when the voice of the TRUMPET sounded long, and waxed louder and louder, Moses (meaning floated on the water, reminding us of Noah) spake, and God answered him by a VOICE. And THE LORD CAME DOWN upon mount Sinai, on the top of the mount: and THE LORD CALLED MOSES UP to the top of the mount; and MOSES WENT UP."

Nu. 10:2-4 says, "Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest USE THEM FOR THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY, AND FOR THE JOURNEYING OF THE CAMPS. And when they shall blow with them (both), ALL the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation (the last trump, I Cor. 15:51,52). And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes (the elders), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall GATHER THEMSELVES UNTO THEE." When the 24 elders are raptured, so are we (Rev. 4:1,4; 5:9).

Isa. 18:3-7: "All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign (OWG flag) on the mountains (kingdoms); and WHEN HE BLOWETH A TRUMPET, HEAR YE. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the HEAT OF HARVEST. For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches. THEY (the branches with no fruit) SHALL BE LEFT together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall SUMMER upon them, and all the BEASTS of the EARTH (see Rev. 13) shall WINTER upon them (i.e., after the spring Rapture). IN THAT TIME (WHEN THE TRUMPET SOUNDS IN THE HEAT OF HARVEST) SHALL THE PRESENT BE BROUGHT UNTO THE LORD OF HOSTS of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled ('Jordan overfloweth all his banks all the time of harvest,'Josh. 3:15 ), TO THE PLACE (Heaven) OF THE NAME OF THE LORD OF HOSTS (Christ), THE MOUNT ZION" (the heavenly one). When the Messianic Jews are caught up, so are we. We are all one body in Christ.

In I Cor. 16:8, Paul, an apostle and ELDER, said, "I will tarry at Ephesus until PENTECOST." James 1:18 says, "Of his own will begat he US with the word of truth, that WE should be A KIND OF FIRSTFRUITS OF HIS CREATURES." Wise virgins are firstfruits, as the 144,000 are, for they "are without fault before the throne of God" (Rev. 14:5).

In I Sam. 6:13, " they of Bethshemesh were REAPING their WHEAT HARVEST in the valley: and THEY LIFTED UP THEIR EYES, AND SAW THE ARK, and rejoiced to see it." The Lord speaks from between the Cherubim. I Sam. 12:17 says, "Is it not WHEAT HARVEST TODAY? I will call unto the LORD, and HE SHALL SEND THUNDER AND RAIN; that ye may perceive and see that YOUR WICKEDNESS IS GREAT, which ye have done in the sight of the LORD, IN ASKING YOU A KING" (Saul, king before David, as the Beast is before Christ, the Son of David). This could prefigure the Lord's coming on the same day the Beast is made head of the One World Government. Hos. 6:3 says that he will come unto us as the rain.

Lev. 23:15-17 says, "count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye NUMBER FIFTY DAYS; and ye shall offer a NEW meat offering unto the LORD. Ye shall BRING OUT OF YOUR HABITATIONS TWO WAVE LOAVES of two tenth deals; they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the FIRSTFRUITS unto the LORD."

Ex. 23:16 speaks of "the FEAST OF HARVEST, the FIRSTFRUITS of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field." Verse 19 says, "The FIRST OF THE FIRSTFRUITS OF THY LAND thou shalt BRING INTO THE HOUSE OF THE LORD thy God. Ex. 34:22 says, " thou shalt observe THE FEAST OF WEEKS, of the FIRSTFRUITS OF WHEAT HARVEST." Nu. 28:26 says, "Also in THE DAY OF THE FIRSTFRUITS, when ye BRING a NEW meat offering unto the LORD, AFTER YOUR WEEKS BE OUT" Neh. 10:35,36 says "to bring the firstfruits of our ground, and the firstfruits of all fruit of all trees, year by year, unto the house of the LORD. ALSO THE FIRSTBORN OF OUR SONS"

There are several more verses that seem to tie in. Psa. 126:5,6: "They that sow in tears shall reap in joy. He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, BRINGING HIS SHEAVES with him. Ruth 2:23: "So she kept fast by the maidens of Boaz to glean unto the end of barley harvest and of wheat harvest"

Mt. 13:30: "Let both grow together until the HARVEST: and in THE TIME OF HARVEST I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but GATHER THE WHEAT INTO MY BARN." I Sam. 6:13: " they of Bethshemesh were REAPING their WHEAT HARVEST in the valley: and THEY LIFTED UP THEIR EYES, AND SAW THE ARK, and rejoiced to see it."

Lu. 22:31: "the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat" I Cor. 15:37: "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain"

See what you think. Agape Note: I'll consider Ascension Day again a bit later.

Incoming email

FWD: Re: Visit to heaven
FRIENDS: Please note the bible verses shared near end of this message. They sent me jumping off my chair.

Orig. From: Jim Bramlett. I received this in an e-mail from Ann W.
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I friend of mine, named _____ , is a prayer warrior and powerful intercessor. On June 10, 1994 this Panamanian woman was pronounced dead from complications of metastatic pancreatic cancer, and was transferred to the morgue at the West Florida Medical center in Pensacola. Five hours later a nurse found her moving and mumbling; she was then transferred back to the ICU. Her testimony is a fascinating account of things in hell and heaven that was shown to her by angels (she never saw Jesus). She saw crystal mansions, robes and crowns being made by angels for the saints, and also saw a valley of white horses for the saints' return with Jesus to claim the earth. She saw another valley of "spotted" horses which she said are reserved for the prophets. The angels performed an "operation" of sorts on her, and when she came to life she was healed. (As a friend and physician, I have her medical records and CT scans in my possession and am helping her to write her story as her English is poor).

I share that to give you some of her background. This woman is so close to Jesus, that during periods of extensive fasting she actually speaks with him face-to-face. She has asked him many questions such as the reason why people have that little "compression" in the skin directly over the upper lip. Jesus told her that when he made Adam out of clay, before the breath of life was breathed into him, he pressed his finger over his mouth as if to tell him "hush" like a "forewarning" for him to control his mouth. Her testimonies are nothing short of a wonder to hear.

Last week, ____ dreamed that Jesus was in the sky, enveloped in a cloud around his waist. His hands were stretched open, and he was looking to-and-fro over the earth searching for his saints. She saw saints in white gowns in the air, but more notable she said were the people on the ground.

She said many, many more people were on the ground than in the air, and they were naked. Old men and women, middle aged men and women, boys and girls, all naked, were crying out to Jesus to take them. But Jesus paid them no heed and kept looking back and forth for his saints who donned their white robes. When I heard the dream I said, "____, that is the harvest (the first resurrection/rapture)!" She responded, "Yes; that's what my pastor said." I asked her if she knew why the people were naked, and she replied she did not. I then showed her these two passages of scriptures, which she received with delight:

"Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked" (2 Cor. 5:3).

"Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed" (Revelation 16:15).

And so, without doubt, this was more than a "dream." Since our wedding clothes represent the "RIGHTEOUS ACTS of the saints," let's take heed every moment to be faithful to the call and watch for the signs of his return. Let's be diligent to feed the poor, shelter the homeless, preach the gospel, cast out demons, heal the sick, disciple the nations, and so not be found naked upon his return! In the words of Paul, let us "clothe ourselves with the Lord Jesus Christ" (Romans 13:14) and as Job so eloquently spoke, "Put on righteousness as our clothing, justice as our robe and turban, be eyes to the blind and feet to the lame, be a father to the needy, take up the case of the stranger, break the fangs of the wicked and snatch the victims from their teeth (29:14-17).

Righteous acts do not "save" us; but they do make heavenly wedding gowns.
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***From Marilyn: Rev. 19:7,8 says, "the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness (lit., righteousnesses) of saints." This includes both the righteousness of Christ imputed to us and our righteous deeds.

Incoming email

i have been talking to many very learned Biblical scholars about their opinion of the time of the rapture. When, in your opinion, will it be?

My reply

In my opinion, next spring sounds most likely, maybe Pentecost.

The passage in Song of Sol. 2:10-14 seems to be referring to the Rapture of the Bride of Christ. It indicates spring: "My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. For, lo, the winter is past, the rain (the latter rain of the Jewish month of Nisan) is over and gone; The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds (of birds is not in the original; it is probably the new song the Raptured sing in Rev. 5:9) is come, and the voice of the turtle (lit., turtledove) is heard in our land (they come in Apr. and leave in Oct.); The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away. O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock (i.e., in Christ), in the secret places of the stairs, let me see thy countenance, let me hear thy voice." The word "places" is not in the original. This is the secret of the stairs. It reminds me of Jacob's ladder that reached from Earth to Heaven.

There are two Raptures. The first "trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16) sounds at the Pre-Trib Rapture. The "last trump" (I Cor. 15:51,52) sounds at the Pre-Wrath Rapture on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. The 1st Rapture is for the Bride of Christ, the 2nd for the Tribulation saints.

Isa. 18:3-7 is an interesting passage. It may apply to the Rapture. It says, " All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign (flag) on the mountains (kingdoms, i.e., world government); and when he bloweth a TRUMPET, hear ye. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest (Pentecost is the beginning of wheat harvest). For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches (those without fruit). They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall SUMMER upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall WINTER upon them. In that time shall the present be brought unto the LORD of hosts of a people scattered and peeled, and from a people terrible from their beginning hitherto; a nation meted out and trodden under foot, whose land the rivers have spoiled, to the place of the name of the LORD of hosts, the mount Zion." Mt. Zion can have a double reference. There is an earthly Mt. Zion and a heavenly Mt. Zion.

The two trumps were prefigured in Nu. 10:2-4. It says, "Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (both, i.e., the 2nd Rapture), all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes (elders, Rev. 4:4), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee." The first trump is to call the saints up at the Pre-Trib Rapture.

It doesn't say that these trumpets had to be sounded on feast days. However, according to Jewish tradition, the first trumpet of the Bible sounded at Mt. Sinai on Pentecost, and it was not sounded by man. Ex. 19:13 says, "when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount." Sinai is probably derived from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn. Mt. Sinai represented Heaven. This is why Ex. 24:10 says, "they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven (heavenly body) in his clearness." Sapphire is a symbol of Heaven. It means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear.

Since things happened to Israel as types or examples (I Cor. 10:11) of things that are to happen at the end of this Age, the first trumpet blast of the Bible may prefigure the first trump of God at the Rapture. At that time, Moses went up on the mount.

Ex. 24:16 says that "the glory of the LORD abode upon mount Sinai, and the cloud covered it six days: and the seventh day he called unto Moses out of the midst of the cloud." They arrived at Sinai in the "third month" (Ex. 19:1). Since the word for month is also the word for new moon, when no day number is given, we are to assume it means the 1st day of the month on their lunar/solar calendar. If they arrived at Sinai on Sivan 1, and the cloud covered the mount 6 days, God must have called Moses up on Sivan 7, which is Pentecost. The Jews keep Sivan 6 and 7 as Pentecost.

It may be significant that the Lord told Israel to sound trumpets on all their feast days and the first of each month. Feast days are called holy convocations, or miqra kodesh. Miqra means something called out, or a rehearsal. The feasts were rehearsals of things to come. Whether Pentecost was just to picture the coming of the indwelling Holy Spirit in 30 AD, or also the "Come up hither" of Christ at the Rapture (Rev. 4:1) remains to be seen. I think it is a good day to watch. The Rapture is the day "of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:14).

The main thing is to be sure we are ready, so the Rapture will not catch us without enough oil of the Holy Spirit. We should all confess all known sins since we accepted Christ to God so he can cleanse us from all unrighteousness (I Jn. 1:9). Then we are wearing white robes and are ready to go at any time. Agape

Incoming email

Thank you so much for the info. Could you tell me, is there a list of all these Jewish holidays/ dates such as Nisan or Tishri- something I could use as a quick reference for reminder when I am studying sites such as yours- I seem to get all into my reading & then I get confused because I have no idea when these months/feasts are & THEN I get side tracked trying to go back & find other info explaining that date in my months April, May etc. Anyway, it would be nice to have a quick reference - since my memories not so great!

My reply

I try to put both the Jewish date and the corresponding Gregorian date in my writings so you can stay oriented. Our corresponding date will not be the same in every year. For instance, the Jewish New Year, Tishri 1, was Sept. 11 in 1999 and Sept. 30 in 2000.

Jewish Civil Year month numbers are on left below, Sacred Year month numbers on right, plus approx. corresponding months on Gregorian calendar.

Jewish months Our months
 (1) Tishri (7) Sept/Oct
 (2) Cheshvan (8) Oct/Nov
 (3) Kislev (9) Nov/Dec
 (4) Teveth (10) Dec/Jan
 (5) Shevat (11) Jan/Feb
 (6) Adar (12) Feb/Mar
 (7) Nisan (1) Mar/Apr
 (8) Iyar (2) Apr/May
 (9) Sivan (3) May/June
(10) Tammuz (4) June/July
(11) Av (5) July/Aug
(12) Elul (6) Aug/Sep

Months have 29 or 30 days and are named and spelled in a variety of ways such as Tishri/Ethanim, Cheshvan/Heshvan/Bul/Marcheshvan, Kislev/Chisleu, Teveth/Tebet/Tebeth, Nisan/Abib, Iyar/Zif, Av/Ab, An extra month, Adar II, is added before Nisan in leap years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17 and 19 in their 19-year cycle.
There are 3 types of years, Deficient (353 days), Normal (354 days), Full (355 days), Deficient Leap (383 days), Normal Leap (384 days), and Full Leap (385 days). (None of these have 360 days.)

Spring feasts

(1) Feast of Passover - Nisan 14
(2) Feast of Unleavened Bread - Nisan 15
(3) Feast of Firstfruits - Nisan 16
(4) Feast of Pentecost/Feast of Weeks - Sivan 6/7

Fall feasts

(5) Feast of Trumpets - Tishri 1 (considered a fall feast, but may actually fall in late summer in some years)
(6) Day of Atonement - Tishri 10
(7) Feast of Tabernacles - Tishri 15

Some Jewish calendars list Passover on Nisan 15 and omit the Feast of Unleavened Bread, but this is not Biblical. They also add Tishri 2 for the Feast of Trumpets, which along with Tishri 1 may be labelled Rosh HaShannah, head of the year. Agape

Incoming email

I received in my snail mail a magazine that has the following ad soliciting money:
"Christians Call for Shared Jerusalem"

"Jerusalem at peace cannot belong exclusively to one people, one country or one religion. Jerusalem should be open to all, shared by all--two peoples and three religions. Jerusalem is a sacred city to Jews, Christians and Muslims, THE CHILDREN OF ABRAHAM. All long for Jerusalem to be the City of Peace. For most of its history the fate of Jerusalem was determined by war. Now the ancient hope for peace can become reality through negotiations. We urge the United States government to call upon negotiators to move beyond exclusivist claims and create a Jerusalem that is sign of peace and a symbol of reconciliation for all humankind." The ad has been endorsed by top leaders of Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, Catholic Conference of Major Superiors of Men's Institutes, the Episcopal Church, Presbyterian Church (USA), Reformed Church in America, United Church of Christ, United Methodist Church and others.
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I had always thought that Jerusalem belongs to Israel. I believe that God gave Jerusalem to the Jews. Are there Bible verses to support this? Did God give Jerusalem to all of "the children of Abraham" or just to the Jews? It appears to me that these Christian churches are undermining Israel by supporting Palestinian claims to Jerusalem and by encouraging U.S. negotiations which would not be in Israel's best interest. It is a sad day for me to consider a situation where Christians would not stand by our Jewish brothers and sisters.

God's blessings to you and your family

PS: try this for help on Hebrew Calendar conversions: http://www.calendar-maven.com I haven't been there yet, but someone sent it to me.

My reply

Jerusalem definitely belongs to Israel. It was not given to the descendants of Ishmael. Josh. 14:1 says, "these are the countries which the children of Israel (Jacob) inherited in the land of Canaan, which Eleazar the priest, and Joshua (Yehoshua, type of Y'shua, Jesus) the son of Nun (the Eternal), and the heads of the fathers of the tribes of the children of Israel, distributed for inheritance to them." Jacob's sons were Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, Benjamin, Dan, Naphtali, Gad and Asher. The promised land was given to their descendants.

When Joshua led the Israelites into the promised land and gave each tribe their inheritance, Jerusalem was in the portion given Judah. Josh. 15:1,8 says, "This then was the lot of the tribe of the children of Judah by their families...And the border went up by the valley of the son of Hinnom unto the south side of the Jebusite; the same is JERUSALEM: and the border went up to the top of the mountain that lieth before the valley of Hinnom westward, which is at the end of the valley of the giants northward."

Israel today is fair and allows other religions to come visit the places they hold dear. What more should they ask? The only reason the Palestinians want complete control of the temple mount is because it means a lot to Israel. They would like to eradicate Israel from the whole country and have the land for themselves, more for hatred of the Israelites than love for the land. Their own children are suffering terribly because of it. Besides being sent out ahead of their elders to throw rocks and risk getting killed, they are being taught to hate, to violently vent their emotions on others, to have no respect for other's rights, to be unfair, to bully, brutalize and kill, that to die in battle is a good thing, etc.

The unseen enemy is chuckling at his achievements among the people of this generation, but he won't chuckle long. The thing is, these people have forgotten to factor God into the equation. No one can win that fights God. Zech. 12:3 says, "in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it." This is there for anyone to read. It is not secret. However, the ones that do not read it or go by it will be bringing end-time prophecies to pass. What is to be will be.

Zech. 14:1-3 says, "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle."

It is ironic that the Palestinians are throwing rocks. Josh. 10:13 tell us this about Joshua's Long Day, a type of Y'shua's Long Day: "And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great STONES FROM HEAVEN upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword."

Isa. 2:19 says, "And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth." Rev. 6:16,17 says that men will say "to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

I just know that everything is in God's capable hands. I watch and am not distressed because I can't change it. When things hit my family, I say, "What else?" and keep right on walking, more determined than ever. As we go along, every once in awhile, I find myself saying to someone, "What did you expect? We are living in the end of the Age."

Mt. 24:6 says, "ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: SEE THAT YE BE NOT TROUBLED: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet."

Blessings to you and yours. Agape

Incoming email

If you get on to the Jerusalem Post website, they have the election date set. Now read this and ponder!

Friday Iyyar 25 - May 18 2001 - Ascension Day
Tuesday Iyyar 29 - May 22 2001 - Israeli Elections
Monday Sivan 6 - May 28 2001 - Shavout Pentecost
Morning of May 28 1999 - I had the vision of the destruction of the Al Asqa Dome of the Rock, from the air in a glorified body.

Could there ever be a more exciting time than this to be watching for the LORD? Agape

My reply

Thanks for letting me know.

On May 22, 1999 (Sivan 7, Pentecost), we had the new star, Nova Velorum.

I don't know of a more exciting time except during Jesus' ministry. Just think of the signs in the sky we've had. I wouldn't have thought we would have seen this much. There were the Shoemaker-Levy comet pieces that hit Jupiter starting on Tisha B' Av, when the temples were set fire, the huge GRB in Bootes' spear on 1-23-99, the new stars, Nova Velorum and Nova Aquilla (12-1-99), the anchor cross in Vela 6-9-00, and the anchor cross in the Sun 1-21-99 (publ. 7-1-00). Who ever expected any of them? Agape

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