Pro and Con 652

Posted 12-1-00

JVIM: TURMOIL IN ISRAELI POLITICS AS INDECISION REIGNS OVER LOOMING ELECTION DATE. 12-7-00 The BBC reported: "Israel's main political parties have postponed negotiations to set a date for the next general election, leaving the country in suspense as it struggles with the worst Israeli-Palestinian violence for many years. Officials from Prime Minister Ehud Barak's One Israel bloc, the right-wing Likud bloc and the ultra-orthodox Shas party had been holding intense negotiations to try to hammer out a deal. Reports say 22 May 2001 is the most likely date, although the opposition is pushing for some time in March. The later date is favoured by Mr Barak as it could give him enough time to reach a peace deal with the Palestinians, increasing his chances of winning the election..." --- http://www.telegraph.co.uk/et?ac=000114832908976&rtmo=kCkYqkYp&atmo=ggggg3JK&pg=/et/00/12/8/wpop08.html ISSUE 2023 Friday 8 December 2000 Heaven open to everyone, says Pope, By Bruce Johnston in Rome Declaration 'Dominus Iesus' - The Holy See [Vatican web site] Statement on new Vatican document [4 Sept 2000] - The Catholic Church in England and Wales, Catholic Information Centre THE Pope has amended a Vatican pronouncement that the Roman Catholic Church was the "only way to salvation", saying that Heaven is open to all as long as they are good. He said at an audience that "all of the just on Earth, including those who ignore Christ and his Church" were "called upon to build the kingdom of God". His words repeated what was pronounced at the Second Vatican Council 40 years ago, but were clearly intended to repair harm to religious dialogue caused by a document issued in September. The document, signed by Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the Pope's chief of doctrine, said that the way of salvation was "only in the unique and universal Catholic Apostolic Church". The amendment follows criticism of the pronouncement, which called other faiths "gravely deficient" as a means to salvation. --- From Marilyn: Anyone that would say "that Heaven is open to all as long as they are good" must not read the Bible for themselves. It is sad to hear this from anyone, worse to hear it from the Pope. Being good won't get anyone into Heaven, not even one person. We can't be good enough to get in that way. If we ever sin once, we are lost and on a slick slide to Hell. Rom. 3:23 tells us why we would ALL be lost: "For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." Isa. 64:6 explains, "But we are ALL as an unclean thing, and ALL our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we ALL do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away." I Jn. 1:10 says, "If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us." That is why we so desperately needed a Saviour. Without Y'shua/Jesus Christ, there is no hope whatsoever for anyone anywhere. Try as we might, we cannot succeed on our own. We cannot ride to Heaven on the train marked Goodness. It doesn't go there. Since we can't get to Heaven by being good, how can we get there? In his letter to the ROMANS (10:8-10), Paul said, "The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of FAITH, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." Acts 4:12 says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." There just is no other way.

Incoming email

This is very interesting, check it out: http://www.torahvoice.org/pleiades.htm

My reply

Thanks....Here are the main things he said:
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The Heavenly Sign the World Awaits? Ancient Writings of Torah Sages
Predicted Change in Constellation Kimah, by ben Yosef, 10-27-99

If the sages of Torah are correct and Y'shua the Nazarene's predictions come to pass, the world will shortly see a dramatic sign in the Heavens above. Two stars in the Constellation known as Kimah (a.k.a. Pleiades, the Seven Sisters and the head of the bull, Taurus) are to be moved from their place and form a Cocav David in the early pre-dawn sky.

Exactly when this world-changing phenomenon would occur...is not certain, although we do have some clues if we go by the historic events that caused these two stars to earlier be removed from their place....

What interests us about this constellation and this "sign," is its purpose. Especially: Why was the constellation most directly related to the House of Joseph singled out? If and when this sign occurs, will it be of such magnitude to persuade the Orthodox and Torah observant of the House of Judah to welcome the descendants of the non-Jewish Assimilated Northern Kingdom led by the House of Joseph, to return to their historic possessions?

The answer to both of these questions may lie in the ancient writings about Kimah and the clarification of those writings by the Prophet (to Judah) and Messiah (to the Assimilation), Y'shua. Since Y'shua singled out this sign to an audience of JUDAH, as pertaining to him personally, JUDAH is within its rights to claim that only if and when the sign is fulfilled, is his office validated and applicable to JUDAH....for Orthodox "Joes," such an extra-biblical sign (alluded to in the writings of Torah sages), validates the core message of Y'shua and its continuity with Torah and Tanach as the promised "shaliah" to the Lost (Assimilated) Sheep of the House of Israel.

The Torah sages wrote that Hashem "took two stars away from KIMAH and brought the flood!"

...there is an ancient opinion that when the time of the Messiah nears, the people will look for a sign in the constellation KIMAH. B’reshit Rabbah 10....

The Ba'al HaTanya wrote "just as the re'eym lifts its lowered horn with a single sudden jerk, so does Israel's salvation arise suddenly, without hesitation or delay." The illustration below shows how this could happen if one of the horns (the star at bottom right) moved from position A to position G through a range of vector products, AA through GG.

This means the two horns would be linked, tied, bound or chained together (as is the case of the horns on a bull) and would move in sync with each other.

The Talmud, Tosefta and other rabbinic writings present this record of the KIMAH as the only constellation which has undergone any observable change since Creation. Consequently, if there were to be a sign in the Heavens that would be accepted by the rabbinim or leaders of Judah today, especially as it pertains to validating the Return of the House of Joseph, it might be an occurrence in KIMAH that would rectify the change recorded in the earlier rabbinic writings and alluded to in Scripture...

And then there is the mystery which has puzzled humanity as long as mankind has gazed at the stars above. The mystery is why the KIMAH is called the Constellation of Seven Sisters, when only six stars are visible with the naked eye? Is it possible that one of the stars was a doubled star? Or, was it possible that before the flood, the constellation's six stars formed a seventh, the Cocav David or Star of David? If this Cocav David will again appear in the pre-dawn sky, what does it mean?...

In the Last Days, followers of Y'shua also are told to look into the Heavens for specific signs. This raises the question of whether the sign the rabbinim expect is the same sign that Y'shua promised would be revealed to his followers and which would validate his mission as the shaliah (one sent) to the Lost Sheep of the House of Israel....

Most mystifying, however was Y'shua's declaration of a Heavenly sign that would signal the coming of the Son of Man, a title by which he often referred to himself.

Matthew 24 calls for signs in the Heavenlies when the REDEMPTION draweth nigh. Y'shua told his followers to "stand erect and look up" into the night skies when they see earthquakes, famines, floods and other "natural" disasters occuring on the face of the Earth.... While most of verses 30-31 is written with imagery estranged from human experience, whatever this phenomenon -- the sign of the Son of man in heaven -- shall be will JOLT, STARTLE and STRIKE in the minds of those, especially not prepared for it.
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My comments on the above:
I agree with the STARTLING JOLT, but am distressed that they are looking for the WRONG SIGN. Ben Yosef thinks the Sign of the Son of Man in Mt. 24:30 will be the moving of 2 stars in Taurus. I don't think this is what Y'shua meant. The passage is talking about the end of this Age and the beginning of the millennial Day of the Lord. Mt. 24:29,30 says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days (Mid-Trib on, the Great Tribulation) shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS of heaven with power and great glory." The ordinary sense of the words "SEE THE SON OF MAN" shows us that people will look up and see Y'shua/Jesus Christ himself.

Rev. 6:12-17 explains this sign further. It says, "when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and HIDE US FROM THE FACE OF HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" They look up and see Y'shua's FACE.

Eze. 38:18-23 literally mentions the FACE of the Lord GOD being seen that day. That is the FACE OF THE SON OF MAN, Y'shua/Jesus Christ. He is the Lord GOD. Eze. 38:18-22 says, "at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my FACE. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel (the asteroid impacts the Mediterranean Sea (Zeph. 2:4,5): So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (paneh, FACE), and the mountains (asteroids, Rev. 8:8,10) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground....I will plead against him (Gog) with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands...an overflowing rain (a tsunami), and great hailsones, fire, and brimstone. Thus will I magnify MYSELF, and sanctify MYSELF; and I will be known (i.e., seen) IN THE EYES OF MANY NATIONS, and they shall KNOW that I am the LORD (YHVH)."

Eze. 11:8-12 says, "Ye have feared the sword; and I will bring a sword upon you, saith the Lord GOD. And I will bring you out of the midst thereof, and deliver you into the hands of strangers, and will execute judgments among you. Ye shall fall by the sword; I WILL JUDGE YOU IN THE BORDER OF ISRAEL (the Mediterranean Sea); and ye shall KNOW that I am the LORD. This city shall not be your caldron, neither shall ye be the flesh in the midst thereof; but I WILL JUDGE YOU IN THE BORDER OF ISRAEL: And ye shall KNOW that I am the LORD: for ye have not walked in my statutes, neither executed my judgments, but have done after the manners of the heathen that are round about you."

Y'shua is the the Lord GOD in the body of Jesus. He is "Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us" (Mt. 1:23), just as Isa. 7:14 said: "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel. He is the LORD (YHVH). He is also the LORD of hosts and the angel of the LORD. Many do not understand the enormity of who he really is, YHVH the King of Israel AND YHVH of hosts. It may take this Sign of the Son of Man to convince some Jews of who Y'shua really is. This sign may be one big reason that the nation will be saved in a day--that day.

Zech. 12:8-10 says, "In that day shall the LORD (YHVH) defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them. And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem (Gog's united nations' army). And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall LOOK ON ME WHOM THEY HAVE PIERCED, and they shall mourn for him (Jesus, the Son of David), as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Here are my study notes on WHO IS THIS KING OF GLORY.

Psa. 24:10 asks, "Who is this King of glory?" and answers, "The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. Selah."

Every Selah we see is like a flag stuck in the text to get our attention. It means pause and think about this; it is important. As I look at this verse again, I think we are supposed to wonder who, exactly, is the LORD (YHVH) of hosts? That must be what is important.

The Bible starts out with what "God" did. God created Heaven and Earth. God said, "Let there be light." God called the light Day. God said, "Let there be a firmament." God called the firmament Heaven. God said, "Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together." God called the dry land Earth. God said, "Let the earth bring forth." God said, "Let there be lights." God made two great lights. God set them in the firmament of the heavens. God said, "Let the waters bring forth." God created. God blessed. God said, "Let the earth bring forth." God made the beast.

Then in Gen. 1:26,27, something different is introduced. "God said, Let US make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness." "So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." We know that these two count as one flesh for Eve was taken out of the side of Adam. Gen. 2:24 says, "they shall be one (echad, united) flesh (basar, body).

The united Elohim shows up in Gen. 3:22, "the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil."

This is stepping off into deep water, looking at things not easy to fully comprehend, but that flag "Selah" is directing me to think about deep things. In some way, the united flesh of Adam and Eve is like our united God. De. 6:4 gives us something similar to ponder. It says, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD (Heb., YHVH Elohenu YHVH echad)." There is that "echad," united, again. It is applied to Adam and Eve and also to God.

Gen. 2 starts out like the first chapter, "God blessed the seventh day," so I expect it to keep right on saying God this and God that, but it doesn't. It abruptly changes. Now, it is "the LORD God made the earth and the heavens." The LORD God had not caused it to rain. The LORD God formed man. The LORD God planted a garden. Out of the ground made the LORD God to grow every tree. The LORD God put man into the garden. The LORD God commanded the man. The LORD God said, "It is not good that the man should be alone." The LORD God formed every beast. The LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam. And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman.

Gen. 3 continues the same way. The serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. They heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden. Adam and Eve hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God. The LORD God called unto Adam. The LORD God said unto the woman. The LORD God said unto the serpent. The LORD God made coats of skins. The LORD God said, "Behold, the man is become as one of US, to know good and evil." The LORD God sent Adam forth from the garden. "So he (the LORD God) drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of the tree of life" (Gen. 3:24).

Isa. 44:6 gathers all this together and shows how this unity of Elohim is possible. It says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH) the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD (YHVH) of hosts; I am the first, AND I am the last; and beside me there is no God." Here YHVH the King of Israel is the first and YHVH of hosts is the last. They are united, and besides them "there is no God." So the LORD of hosts is YHVH's redeemer.

The last book in the Bible ties this all up in a package and makes it clear. Yahwehshua (meaning Yahweh saves), Y'shua, Jesus, "his redeemer," explains, "I am Alpha AND Omega, the beginning (YHVH King of Israel) AND the end (YHVH of hosts), the first AND the last...I am the root (YHVH) AND the offspring of David" (Y'shua/Jesus) (Rev. 22:13,16).

In the Old Testament, man had to deal with the Pre-incarnate Christ. In the New Testament, man has to deal with the Incarnate Christ.

It is as II Cor. 5:19 tells us, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world (kosmos) unto HIMSELF."

I Cor. 10:9 says, "Neither let us tempt CHRIST, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents. Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer." That Christ is the LORD of hosts is plain when we compare this with the Tanakh/Old Testament corollaries.

Ex. 17:2,7 says, "Wherefore the people did chide with Moses, and said, Give us water that we may drink. And Moses said unto them, Why chide ye with me? wherefore do ye tempt the LORD (YHVH)?...And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the LORD (YHVH), saying, Is the LORD (YHVH) among us, or not?"
Nu. 21:6,7 says, "And the LORD (YHVH) sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD (YHVH), and against thee; pray unto the LORD (YHVH), that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed."

That the Lord of hosts is the King of Israel AND the Redeemer AND the God of Israel is seen in many verses.
Psa. 46:7: "The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah." The LORD of hosts is the God of Jacob. Selah, stop and think of that.
Isa. 47:4: "As for our redeemer, the LORD of hosts is his name, the Holy One of Israel."
Psa. 84:3: "O LORD of hosts, my King, and my God."
Isa. 1:24: "Therefore saith the LORD, the LORD of hosts, the mighty One of Israel, Ah, I will ease me of mine adversaries, and avenge me of mine enemies."
Amos 4:13: "The LORD, The God of hosts, is his name."

Isa. 5:7: "the vineyard of the LORD of hosts is the house of Israel."
Isa. 51:15: "I am the LORD thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The LORD of hosts is his name."
Isa. 54:5: "For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called."
Jer. 51:5: "For Israel hath not been forsaken, nor Judah of his God, of the LORD of hosts; though their land was filled with sin against the Holy One of Israel."

Isa. 13:13 says, "Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger."
Isa. 31:5 says, "As birds flying, so will the LORD of hosts defend Jerusalem; defending also he will deliver it; and passing over he will preserve it."
Zech. 1:17 says, "Cry yet, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; My cities through prosperity shall yet be spread abroad; and the LORD shall yet comfort Zion, and shall yet choose Jerusalem."

Zech. 8:22 says, "Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the LORD of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the LORD."
Jer. 32:18 says, "Thou shewest lovingkindness unto thousands, and recompensest the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them: the Great, the Mighty God, the LORD of hosts, is his name."
Isa. 37:16 says, "O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth."

Isa. 24:23 says, "Then the moon shall be confounded, and the sun ashamed, when the LORD of hosts shall reign in mount Zion, and in Jerusalem, and before his ancients gloriously."
Isa. 6:3 says, "one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his GLORY." Here, we come full circle. Who is the King of glory? "The LORD of hosts, he is the King of glory. He is also the Christ, Y'shua, the Messiah of Israel, Jesus, born of a virgin.

Isa. 7:14 says, "Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."V Mt. 1:23 agrees: "Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."

Mt. 1:21 says, "And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins."
I Cor. 5:7 says, "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us."
Isa. 53:5,6 agrees: "he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all." Y'shua is YHVH's redeemer. The redeemer also is known as the Lord Jesus Christ.

Christ took sin out of the way as an issue in Salvation. Now, the question is "What think ye of Christ? whose son is he?" (Mt. 22:42). Truly, he is the Son of God, but he is also our Lord and our God in whom we must trust.

Psa. 84:12 says, "O LORD of hosts, blessed is the man that TRUSTETH in thee."
Psa. 2:7,12 says, "the LORD (YHVH, the Father) hath said unto ME (YHVH of hosts), Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten (yalad, at the time of delivery) thee...Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their TRUST in him" (YHVH of hosts, Son of God, Immanuel, Y'shua, Jesus Christ).

The title LORD (YHVH) is used of BOTH the Father and of the Son.
Rev. 11:15 says, "the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord (the Father), and of his Christ" (the Son of God).
Acts 4:26 says, "The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were gathered together against the Lord (the Father), and against his Christ" (the Son). This is from Psalm 2:2: "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD (the Father), and against his anointed" (the Son).

Psalm 110:1 says, "The LORD (YHVH, the Father) said unto my Lord (adonai, the Son), Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool." Jesus repeated this in Mt. 22:41-46; Mk. 12:35-37; Lu. 20:41-44. In Acts 2:34-36, on Pentecost, Peter said, "David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, Until I make thy foes thy footstool. Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same JESUS, whom ye have crucified, BOTH LORD AND CHRIST."

I Cor. 15:47 says, "The first man is of the earth, earthy; the second man IS THE LORD FROM HEAVEN." This helps us understand Isa. 9:6. It says, "unto us a child is BORN (inheriting his human nature from his mother), unto us a son is GIVEN (being given his deity by his Father): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace."

The Holy Spirit is also called Lord and God. I Thess. 3:11-13 says, "Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you." We also see this in the Old Testament. In Isa. 48:16-18, the Son is speaking. He says, "Come ye near unto ME (the Son), hear ye this; I (the Son) have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I (the Son): and now the Lord GOD (the Father), and his Spirit (the Holy Spirit), hath sent me" (the Son). Thus saith the LORD (YHVH of hosts, the Son), thy Redeemer (Yeshua, the Saviour), the Holy One of Israel; I AM the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to MY (the Son's) commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea." Thus, the LORD of hosts, the Son, met Israel at Sinai and talked face to face with Moses and gave Moses the commandments.

From the scriptures in which both the Father and Jesus Christ are called Lord, and others in which the Holy Spirit is called Lord, it is evident that both terms, "God and Lord," are applied to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Mt. 28:19 says, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in THE NAME (singular) of the Father, AND of the Son, AND of the Holy Ghost." De. 6:4 agrees. It says, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHVH) our God (Elohim) is one (echad, united) LORD" (YHVH). Our united Elohim cannot be separated. He is all at the same time, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Acts 10:48 says, "Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord." Therefore the Father and the Son and the Holy Ghost are all one united LORD.

The Spirit of Christ is the Spirit of God. Rom. 8:9,10 says, "ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." I Peter 1:11 shows that the same Spirit of God/Spirit of Christ was in the Old Testament prophets. It says, "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow."

When we see God, we will still see him in the face of Jesus Christ. Rev. 22:3-5 says, "the throne (one throne) of God AND of the Lamb shall be in it (New Jerusalem); and his servants shall serve him (singular): And they shall see his face (one face); and his name shall be in their foreheads. And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the LORD GOD giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever." Agape

Her reply

My position is not like unto yours, however...my interest in what Ben Yosef says is that he is illustrating more astronomical activity in the skies as relative to the time of the coming of the son of man. The moving of the two stars is illustrative in the same way the work of Avi Mordechai is.

My reply

Since you mentioned Avi Ben Mordechai's book, I pulled out his "Signs in the Heavens" to determine if you see something there that I have missed.

Since I disagreed with some of Avi's early dates, I didn't may too much attention to his sky charts on those days. He went by the Hebrew calendar in the Book of Jubilees and said that the serpent came to Eve on the "17th day of the second month at the end of the seventh year in the first week of years, after creation." He thought that was May 14, 3996 BCE. He also placed the 1st day of Noah's Flood on the "17th day of the second month in the Jewish year 1656" and set that on May 7, 2347 BCE.
The time of the Flood is a benchmark in Bible Chronology. If we add up the years beginning with Adam, almost all chronologers get 1656 AH, so I paid attention to what Avi put for the Flood.

I have 2387 BC (1656 AH). The difference is the 40 years I think Adam spent in Eden, so I can see where he got his year. What I can't figure out is why he thinks the 17th day of the second month falls in May. This was before the Exodus. Wouldn't the 2nd month be Cheshvan on the Jewish Civil Calendar? Their Sacred Year began at the Exodus. Can you think of any reason that we should extrapolate the Sacred Year backward?

I wondered about this before when I saw Scofield's note on Gen. 7:11. It says the "second month" and the note says, "i.e. May." I can't see why this would be true before the Sacred Year began with the Exodus. Can you? Cheshvan 17 this year was Nov. 15.

What really caught my eye in this section of Avi's book is what he said about the bombardment of Jupiter by the 21 pieces of Comet Shoemaker-Levi 9. On pp. 406/7, he said, "First and most important, I believe the Shoemaker-Levi 9 comet crash of July 16-22, 1994 said something to Jewish people worldwide whether they were paying attention or not. And if they were listening to G-d, I think they heard the message loud and clear because the timing of this event is exceedingly important! The date of the first comet impact on Jupiter was July 16, 1994, perhaps just another summer night according to the world's calendar. On the Jewish calendar, however, it was Tisha B'Av, or the "9th of Av." Two temples were set fire on this date.

I agree, those explosions should have gotten their attention--and ours. Surely it was a sign. Even the 21 pieces could be significant, since it is a multiple of 7. The comet broke apart on 7-7-92, and the pieces hit Jupiter over a 7-day period. It demonstrated to this world that such a thing could happen to Earth. We are not immune. The 7 could tie in with the 7 trumpet judgments of 2007.

Av 9, 5754 started at 6 PM on July 16th, 1994. The Jewish 5754 was a significant year already, because the Oslo Accords were ratified in Israel on Tishri 1, the first day of 5754. Those explosions on Jupiter certainly called attention to that year, which I think was the 1st of the 7 good years. On Tishri 1, 5768, the 7th month of the Jewish Sacred Year, the end of the 7 bad years, I expect asteroid pieces to collide with Earth, as in Rev. 8:8,10. The year 5754 + 7 good years + 7 bad years = 5768.

I expect the Sign of the Son of Man to be seen in thy sky after the 6th seal is broken on the last day of this Age. That should be convincing. I hope the Jews paid attention to the comet pieces hitting Jupiter in the same year that the Oslo Accords were signed. The explosions were good exclamation marks emphasizing the importance of that year. Agape

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