Pro and Con 669

Posted 1-12-01 Posted 1-8-01. An unprecedented surge in planetary moon discoveries continues as astronomers announced Friday the discovery of 10 more moons orbiting Jupiter....The discoveries bring to 28 the total number of moons orbiting the giant planet, with 12 of the moons discovered in just over a year....

Although Jupiter is the largest planet in the solar system, even these latest discoveries do not make it the planet with the most moons. That honor goes to Saturn and its 30 moons, 12 of which were discovered since late October by another group of astronomers from France, Canada, and the United States. Like the Jovian discoveries, Saturn's newly-discovered moons are also small and in distant, elliptical orbits, suggesting in both cases that the moons are captured bodies from either the asteroid belt or the Centaurs, a family of small icy bodies orbiting between Saturn and Uranus.

Incoming email

Re: Bowl of Wrath again
This thought occurred to me yesterday: Suppose the 'bowl' is NOT a bowl, but the 'cup of trembling' that the Lord is about to turn Jerusalem into (Zech.12.2)? This would be more in line with imminent prophetic events as we understand them, wouldn't it?

My reply

It would fit pretty well. Not all cups have handles. When we used to get Chinese food at a restaurant, the teacup had no handle. This cup might be spilling some contents because of the trembling. That passage in Zechariah 12:2,3 is talking about the Day of God's Wrath too. Jerusalem is "a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people."

That is the day Gog's army attacks Israel (Eze. 38). It is when a stone (asteroid) impacts the Mediterranean Sea (Zeph. 2:4,5, Rev. 8:8, Eze. 38:20). It is the day the trumpet judgments hit Earth and the bowls of wrath are poured out. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Mat 24:36
...As always, you are a blessing to many, and a specific encouragement to me in my studies.

Thought you might want to check out a version (or maybe you already have) for the scripture people write to you about regarding whether we should know when the Rapture maybe. Recently I bought the complete text of the Greek New Testament by Paul r. McReynolds and of course I looked up Mat 24:36. This is a unique interlinear translation which shows the Greek, with Strong's number and the English translation under each word. So the sentences are structured in Greek, but you can see each word in english which should put to rest what was originally written.

Here is the translation...."About but the day that and hour no one has known, but not the messengers of the heavens but not the Son, except the Father alone." As you can see, it was a past tense, as you have been saying all along....

Keep up the wonderful work you do. I look forward to seeing you in heaven. Agape

My reply

Thanks much. I'll have to save this to a text file so I can find it again.

> > it was a past tense, as you have been saying all along

Not exactly. I said that knoweth was present tense. Past tense is even better than what I thought. I haven't seen this Interlinear. Would you look up Heb. 12:23's "general assembly" for me? I'd sure appreciate knowing what it says there....Agape

Her reply

Here is Hebrews 12:23 in the Greek New Testament interlinear translation by Paul R. McReynolds. "and assembly of firstborn ones having been enrolled in heavens and judge God of all and spirits of right having been completed".

I have really enjoyed reading this version, as it seems like the writers are speaking outloud to us. Let me know if you would like any other verses from it. Agape

Incoming email

Re: What if?
First I want to commend you on all your devotion to uncovering certain Biblical truths, and your commitment to study. You have certainly set an example for all who read or find your web pages. My concern is 2-fold: 1) To point out all the numbers and connections to the end times is interesting, but what does it all mean for the everyday Christian trying to walk in faith. It seems like all the information you have would produce a sense of urgency in sharing the Gospel and living as Jesus did, but I did not get that sense in reading your pages...I am not questioning your sincerity, but maybe with your information you could present more ideas to people in these areas, and 2) Noone "knows" the day or the hour and I am concerned with your conviction on the exact times...what if you are wrong? So many others have come before you and claimed this date, this year, this time, with much of the same information (Van Impe, Hagin, Roberts,etc.). You are much different than they are in probably all other espects, but in the setting dates you are not. That is dangerous territory to tread. I know you know the scriptures that speak on falsely informing people, and I don't think that is your intent, but nonetheless you are making predictions that are beyond any persons scope of information. The more important thing is to fulfill the Great Commandment and the Great Commission. Please do not be discouraged and I know you probably have many questions you would like to ask me, but I am a sold-out believer, bornagain, spirit-filled follower of Jesus Christ and I love my brothers and sisters. If I had a page with things you thought were questionable I would hope and expect you to respond to me also. Take care and remain faithful. In the Vine

My reply

I am not predicting anything. How could I do that? I am not a prophet. I study the Bible and share any clues I find. I share how it looks to me. That is all. It is the reader's duty to compare what I, or anyone else, says with Scripture. What agrees with Scripture, keep. What does not, throw away. It is my opinion that there are no prophets of God on Earth until Moses and Elijah come at the beginning of the Tribulation. Everything anyone says needs screening.

> > what does it all mean for the everyday Christian trying to walk in faith.

It should be a wake-up call for them to get ready. I tell them how to do that over and over until it is like a broken record. The wise Philadelphian virgins are not told to repent. They already have. They are in the Bride group because they are wearing white spiritual wedding garments.

The foolish Laodicean virgins ARE told to repent. Rev. 3:15-19 says, "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I WILL SPUE THEE OUT OF MY MOUTH. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and NAKED: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and WHITE RAIMENT, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: BE ZEALOUS therefore, and REPENT."

If these do not repent and confess their sins, they may be in danger of being left behind at the Rapture. All sins committed since accepting Christ need to also be brought under the blood of Christ.I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

We can learn our lesson the easy way, or the hard way, but we will learn it. When the Tribulation saints are raptured, they will have "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14). For me, I want to learn my lessons the easy way. What advantage could there be in risking being cut off in the Pre-Trib Rapture?

Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation, Dan. 8:13,14) with the unbelievers." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." Mt. 22:13,14 says of the man without a wedding garment, "Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but FEW ARE CHOSEN." We need to be sure that we are in the chosen group.

> > what if you are wrong?

I will be wrong. I am human, not a prophet, not God. I can't say that anything has to happen when I think it will. I just show the scriptures that make me think the way I do. It is up to you to search the scriptures and see if these things are so.

> > maybe with your information you could present more ideas to people in these areas

Go to just about any Christian Church or Website or read scads of Christian books, and you will find the kind of information you suggest I concentrate on. It is all over the place. I have a file for people that need that kind of thing. I have links also. I write email to people who need to hear the gospel. I do my level best to bring them to accept Christ as their own personal Saviour. Some have. I need to do what I think the Lord would have me do. You could set up your own web site that will teach exactly what you think people need to hear. We are different parts of the Body of Christ. We have different gifts and different functions. We all need to work for Christ, you as well as me. Put your teachings out there for all to benefit from. I will put a link on my site so people can find your Web page. Just let me know when it is online.

> > in the setting dates...That is dangerous territory to tread

Then don't tread there in your pages.

> > The more important thing is to fulfill the Great Commandment and the Great Commission.

Write it up and I will post it for all to see.

> > Take care and remain faithful

I will. Agape

Incoming email

How are you, I haven't written to you for a couple of years and i don't expect you to remember me. I have a couple of your books and really enjoy your insightful probings into bible prophecy.

do you happen to have a list of the feast dates for the next few years that you could e mail me with out too much trouble? I'm specifically looking for dates of the feast of trumpets, and want to compare them to passings of toutatis in 2004 and 2028

I would also love to read any new theories or insights that you have. sincerely

My reply

I have these dates for Tishri 1.
18 Sept 2001, 7 Sept 2002, 27 Sept 2003, 16 Sept 2004, 4 Oct 2005, 23 Sept 2006, 13 Sept 2007, 30 Sept 2008

I have a new Home Page you might like to read. The part about the signs in the heavens is essentially the same as before, but the rest is different. It explains evidence I found that the Rapture will be on a feast day. The word for "general assembly" in Heb. 12:23 is panegurei, a festal assembly (Thayer). Pentecost is the only feast that seems likely to me. Isa. 18:3-6 indicates spring. It is listed too. It is addressed to "all ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth." It mentions the Lord blowing a trumpet. It also says, "I will consider (nabat, see, look at) in my dwelling place." Sounds like the Pre Trib Rapture to me. Verses 5 and 6 sound like the Laodiceans and foolish virgins being cut off (Lu. 12:46).

On the 5doves site, I found this from Lyn Mise: > > (Song 2:10 KJV) My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away.

> > I looked at the actual words spoken. The word for "Rise" means to abide, perform, or to establish oneself. The word for "come away" means to walk, bear, march, pursue, or grow. This takes place in the spring and appears to be a command for the bride to prepare herself and to walk worthy. It does not mean "come up hither" as I had thought for a long time.

> > I had thought that the following verse:

> > (James 5:7 KJV) Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain.

> > indicated the the Lord would come for the Firstfruits right after the latter rain which ends in the spring. However, the word rain is not in the oldest manuscripts. Therefore, the verse says the "Husbandman" waiteth patiently for the early and latter fruit. The early fruit is the Firstfruits, and the latter fruit is the Main Harvest.
I looked up "Rise" in Song of Solomon 2:10. It is Strong's 6965, quwm, a prim. root: TO RISE. It also lists "LIFT UP." Gesenius has "ARISE," but what caught my eye was that it can also mean "to cause to stand," "to perform a promise." To me, that fits the Rapture very well

In James 5:7, the Vatican MS has "the early and latter rain" with "rain" in italics. The Siniatic MS has "the early and the latter fruit." Fruit makes sense here, but the former and latter rains are such definite times in Israel that they are listed on their calendars that list feast days and times of harvest.

Green's Interlinear has "be patient until the coming of the Lord. See, the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, having patience for it until IT GETS THE EARLY AND LATE RAIN."

This agrees with Song of Sol. 2:11, "the winter is past, the rain is over and gone."

> > the word rain is not in the oldest manuscripts. Therefore, the verse says the "Husbandman" waiteth patiently for the early and latter fruit.

If it doesn't say rain, it probably doesn't say fruit either. The Bible interprets itself. What is mentioned elsewhere as having the early and latter? the rain. The former and latter rains are even listed on the Jewish calendars that list the harvest times.

De. 11:14 says, "I will give you the rain of your land (Israel) in his (Christ's) due season, the FIRST RAIN (First Advent) and the LATTER RAIN (Second Advent)."
Psa. 72:6 says, "HE SHALL COME DOWN LIKE RAIN upon the mown grass: AS SHOWERS that water the earth."
Hos. 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, AS THE LATTER AND FORMER RAIN unto the earth."
Lev. 26:3,4 says, "If ye walk in my statutes, and keep my commandments, and do them; Then I will give you rain in due season" (i.e., in Christ's due season).
Job 37:6 says, "he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the SMALL RAIN, and to the GREAT RAIN OF HIS STRENGTH."
Job 38:28 says, "Hath the rain a father?" Yes, The former and latter rain represents the comings of Christ.
Prov. 16:15 says, "In the light of the king's countenance is life; and HIS FAVOUR IS AS a cloud of the LATTER RAIN."
Joel 2:23 says, "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the FORMER RAIN, and the LATTER RAIN in the first month" (i.e., Tishri 1 and Nisan 1). Agape

Incoming email

This sounds like it will be 2300 days from the Abomination to the second coming, not from the start of the seventieth week to the second coming:

Daniel 8:11-14: "It set itself up to be as great as the Prince of the host; it took away the daily sacrifice from him, and the place of his sanctuary was brought low. Because of rebellion, the host [of the saints] [1] and the daily sacrifice were given over to it. It prospered in everything it did, and truth was thrown to the ground. Then I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to him, "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled--the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?" He said to me, "It will take 2,300 evenings and mornings; then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated."

My reply

> > "How long will it take for the vision to be fulfilled--the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?

The "daily sacrifice" is offered up during the 1st half of the Tribulation. The "rebellion that causes desolation" is Mid-Trib.

The sacrifice will be offered daily for the 1st 1260 days of the Tribulation. When the False Prophet is Satan-possessed at Mid-Trib, he will desecrate the temple and the sacrificing will stop for the remainder of the Great Tribulation.

Here is the way I understand it. The KJV has "he (the False Prophet) magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him (the False Prophet) the daily sacrifice was taken away (Mid-Trib), and the place of the sanctuary was cast down. And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered. Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (the first half of the Tribulation, when they do sacrifice), and the transgression of desolation (Mid-Trib), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot (the latter shortened period of 1040 days when they cannot sacrifice)? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days (lit., evenings and mornings); then shall the sanctuary be CLEANSED." 2300 days - 1260 for the first half of the Tribulation = 1040 for the Great Tribulation that is to be shortened.

The word "CLEANSED" is the Hebrew tsadaq. Strong's 6663 has to be right, cleanse, clear self, justify self. Gesenius says, "Niphal, prop. to be declared just; hence to be vindicated from wrongs. Dan. 8:14."

The LXX has, "and will be vindicated the sanctuary." Vindicated means avenged (Webster's). That fits the Day of God's Wrath on the 2300th day of the Tribulation.

Dan. 8:19 says, " I will make thee know what shall be in the LAST END OF THE INDIGNATION: for at the time appointed THE END shall be." This end can be the end of the shortened Tribulation on the 2300th day.

Dan. 8:25,26 says of the False Prophet, "by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes; but he shall be BROKEN WITHOUT HAND. And THE VISION OF THE EVENING AND THE MORNING (i.e., the vision of the 2300 evenings and mornings) which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days." The False Prophet will be deposed when the asteroids impact Earth.

Eze. 45:18 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary." The word here for cleanse is chata, Strong's 2398. One of the meanings Gesenius lists is "to expiate, to cleanse by a sacred ceremony." This happens on Nisan 1, the day of the Second Advent, after the Jews bury the bodies for 7 months so Christ can return in glory (Eze. 39:12,13). See what you think. Agape

Incoming email

I just want to say hello and let you know I find your web site an encouragement. Though I don't agree with everything you write about it is obvious that you love the Lord and looking for his soon return. I believe you do reach people. I believe your work is important to God so I encourage you to keep up the good work you are doing. You are much more knowledgeable of the scriptures than I am and if nothing else you have encouraged me to study, which I am. Thanks. Your Brother in Christ

My reply

Thanks for the encouragement. I don't think any two people in this world would agree on everything in the Bible. It is far too complicated for that. There is too much to dig out in one lifetime. We learn step by step. The Lord helps us understand what we need to know at a certain time. I have read verses over and over and think I understand them, then one day, it is like turning on the light. It had a meaning I had not seen before. Part of it is that the more you already know about the Bible, the more you can see as you go through it again. Verses on the same subject need to be put next to each other. There may be one piece of information in one that fits into the other and expands the meaning.

For instance, we read about Jesus and Peter walking on the water in Mt. 14:22-34. Verse 34 says, "when they were gone over, they came into the land of Gennesaret (garden of the prince, or harp)." There is nothing startling in that. In the account in Mk. 6:45-53, it omits Peter walking on the water. Verse 53 says, "when they had passed over, they came into the land of Gennesaret." Both of these accounts mention that they were in the midst of the sea. The Sea of Galilee was about 6 x 12 miles. In the midst could mean that they were about 3 miles from land. John 6:15-21 gives us nothing about Peter walking on the water, but verse 21 is startling. It says, "and IMMEDIATELY THE SHIP WAS AT THE LAND WHITHER THEY WENT." They had traversed 3 miles instantly.

If we hadn't read all the accounts of Jesus walking on the water, we would have missed the transportation miracle, and I think it demonstrates how we will be transported to Heaven, the Garden of the Prince. We can't skip over a passage because it sounds like something we already know. There might be one thing different that we need to know.

That fast transportation is like Philip disappearing after baptizing the eunuch and being transported to Azotus. Acts 8:38-40 says, "he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away (harpazo, i.e., as at the Rapture) Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. But Philip was found at Azotus (a strong place)." So at the Rapture, the Spirit of the Lord will catch us away.

The other places where "harpazo" is used help us understand more about the Rapture. In I Thess. 4:17, we shall be caught up (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." In II Cor. 12:2, Paul is "caught up (harpazo) to the third heaven." In the next verse, Paul is "caught up (harpazo) into paradise" (i.e., the 3rd Heaven is our Paradise). In Rev. 12:5, "her child was caught up (harpazo) unto God." It looks to me like we will be caught up by the Spirit of the Lord, be taken to God, and will immediately find ourselves in Paradise in the third Heaven. What do you think? Agape

Incoming email

Re: What I think
I believe you are correct. I do believe in the rapture. why else would we be told to pray that we might be found worthy to escape the things that are coming on this world lk 21:36. I am very concerned for those that are around me. I pray for them every day. I believe are time is short even if the rapture does not happen in my life time. (I believe it will) James 4:14 says are life is like a vapor. I know that Jesus died for my sins and that God raised him up and that it is his will that none should perish. I know that I am not doing enough to reach others so I strive to better. It is very important to study and to watch and pray. I Believe that all the members of the body are joned together by God and we each have a job. I believe you have a gift and that God is using you. It is my prayer that there would be a great awakening in this country. I want to take as many with me as I can.

I do have a question that you have probably answered before it's about matthew 24. Three separate times(vs 5,11,and 24) jesus talks about false christ do you think these are three different times or is he repeating himself. In vs 9 has this happened because the deciples were all killed except John. I am honestly trying to understand this better. I have read several commentaries and I don't think they helped very much. Some say that some of these things have happened and others say they have not. In any case I do believe that we are not appointed to wrath and that the rapture will happen soon.

I do not want to take up your valuable time I appreciate your work so if you have already written about the above question and can point me to it that would be great. Thanks. In Christ

My reply

I know what you mean about commentaries. I haven't found them very useful, or their teaching very deep. I don't always want a verse just stated in other words. I can get more out of just reading the Bible and looking up words in Strong's Concordance.

> > matthew 24. Three separate times (vs 5,11,and 24) jesus talks about false christ. do you think these are three different times or is he repeating himself. In vs 9 has this happened because the deciples were all killed except John.

I think these 3 references apply to different times in progression. Jesus is looking forward through time and seeing false prophets arise all along the course of this age. I Peter 2:1 says, "But there WERE false prophets also among the people, even as there SHALL BE false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."

The 1st reference in Mt. 24 is closer to Jesus in time, the 2nd skips a bit farther on, and the last is in the Great Tribulation. The section of the Olivet Discourse that applies to the first century is found in Lu. 21. Lu. 21:10 speaks of nation rising against nation. Verse 12 says, "But BEFORE all these, they shall persecute you."

Mt. 24:5 says, "For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many." This may apply to the time before the first World War, which could have been "the beginning of sorrows (odin, pangs of childbirth)" in v. 8. We are not to take it as being during the Tribulation, for v. 6 says, "but the end is not yet."

A bit later on, v. 9 talks about the Jews being hated and killed. This probably applies specifically to the Holocaust of 1945. Again, we are told that "many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many" (Mt. 24:11). This skips to our days, because v, 12 mentions that "the love of many shall wax cold." This is seen in Rev. 2:4's "thou hast left thy first love" and the lukewarmness of the Laodiceans in 3:16. V. 13 says, "But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved." Those that endure are like the overcomers of Rev. 2 and 3. Rev. 2:26-28 expands on this. It says, "he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations: And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father. And I will give him the morning star (Heaven is a morning star at the time of the Rapture). He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

Starting with Mt. 24:15 and continuing to v. 31, we are reading about the Great Tribulation, the last 1040 days of the 2300 days of the shortened Tribulation (Mt. 24:22). Then Mt. 24:24 says, "there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." Verse 26 says, "he is in the desert," referring to the False Prophet when his headquarters is at Babylon. During the Great Tribulation, the False Prophet will rule until the end, the Day of God's Wrath on the 2300th day of the Tribulation.

Jn. 5:43 says, "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER shall come in his own name, him ye will receive." This is "ANOTHER beast" of Rev. 13:11, the False Prophet.

I John 2:18 says, "Little children (the last generation), it is THE LAST TIME: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is THE LAST TIME." A time can mean a year, as in Rev. 12:6,14. This may be referring to the year between Pentecost, 2000 and Pentecost, 2001

If so, look at what follows. Verses 20 and 21 say, "ye have an UNCTION (anointing) from the Holy One, and YE KNOW ALL THINGS. I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because YE KNOW IT." Verses 27 and 28 say, "the ANOINTING (unction) which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as THE SAME ANOINTING TEACHETH YOU OF ALL THINGS, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. And now, little children (the last generation), abide in him; that, when he shall appear (at the Rapture), we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming."

These are the days when we should really apply ourselves to Bible study. Now is when Christ's followers will have help from the Spirit of Christ to understand all things. Rom. 8:9 says, "ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." To get the Spirit of Christ, first, we must accept Christ as our Lord and Saviour. Second, we must confess any sins committed after we accepted Christ so God can cleanse us from all unrighteousness." When we are filled with the Holy Spirit, we can understand things that God wants to reveal in our days. Agape

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