Pro and Con 682

Posted 2-2-01

Ed is feeling better now. It is getting to me somewhat today. I reported our bad-food experience at New World Buffet, Riverside, CA, to health dept. They will send inspectors over there.

Someone wanted a picture of Saturn. Here is one with some of her moons.

Incoming email

Subject: Access to your main page
Pls. give your main page adress - the whole adress to me. I have no access the system is telling me. Somethingwrong?

My reply

NEW: mjagee@pe.net (please change in your address book)
NEW: http://home.pe.net/~mjagee (pe server will be dropped soon)
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The Miracle of Teleportation

Mt. 14:22-34 says, "straightway Jesus constrained his disciples to get into a ship, and to go before him unto the other side, while he sent the multitudes away. And when he had sent the multitudes away, he went up into a mountain apart to pray: and when the evening was come, he was there alone. But the ship was now in the midst of the sea, tossed with waves: for the wind was contrary. And in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea. And when the disciples saw him walking on the sea, they were troubled, saying, It is a spirit; and they cried out for fear. But straightway Jesus spake unto them, saying, Be of good cheer; it is I; be not afraid. And Peter answered him and said, Lord, if it be thou, bid me come unto thee on the water. And he said, Come. And when Peter was come down out of the ship, he walked on the water, to go to Jesus. But when he saw the wind boisterous, he was afraid; and beginning to sink, he cried, saying, Lord, save me. And immediately Jesus stretched forth his hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt? And when they were come into the ship, the wind ceased. Then they that were in the ship came and worshipped him, saying, Of a truth thou art the Son of God. And when they were gone over, they came into the land of Gennesaret."

John 6:41 adds, "Then they willingly received him into the ship: and IMMEDIATELY (eutheos, directly, at once, forthwith, straightway) the ship was at the land whither they went." That miracle was Teleportation. They went from the midst of the Sea of Galilee, 6 x 12 miles, so they were teleported about 3 miles. Now look at the news below on teleportation.

http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3HW4CJGIC&live=true&tagid=IXLMS1QTICC&subheading=global%20economy

Teleportation no longer a myth, By Clive Cookson in Davos 1-27-01 - The World Economic Forum is moving to ever higher intellectual planes.

The opening day featured a space briefing on the search for extraterrestrial life. And on Friday Davos entered Star Trek territory with a session on "teleportation and other ways quantum physics might improve your life".

The star performer was the scientist who comes closest to being a contemporary Captain Kirk: Anton Zeilinger, professor of experimental physics at Vienna University. He is the leader of a small international band of researchers who have shown over the past two or three years that teleportation is not just a myth of science fiction but a practical reality - at least in the laboratory.

Teleportation is one of the weirdest consequences of quantum theory, predicted and then rejected by Albert Einstein because it seemed so counter-intuitive. It involves sending a particle - or a full quantum description of the particle, which comes to the same thing - instantly from one place to another over an indefinite distance.

Prof Zeilinger and colleagues have so far done no more than teleport photons (light particles) over a few kilometres but experiments are moving on to atoms, and even molecules are on the research agenda.

Incoming email

just wanted to let you know I'm still here reading your web site almost everyday for about four years. I'm still amazed at your knowledge and obvious love for our lord. What really impresses me is the way you lovingly and kindly refute those who (from what I've noticed) don't believe in 1. the Rapture, 2. Watching and trying to figure out when, 3. Christ, 4. Anything! I've read on your web site, more than once over the years, people writing that you should ignore this rapture thing and concentrate on spreading the word. I think they don't see Christ in your replies, but I wanted to let you know that I do. And I know you do.

Mt:24:36: But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Could it be possible that Jesus wasn't referring at all to "time" itself but to the event instead? He didn't say, "But the day and hour..." He said, "But of that day and hour..." It's sort of like when you know you're going to an event. Maybe a concert, maybe a baseball game, maybe a wedding. You picture in your mind how everything is going to unfold but quite often the reality of it is totally different. "Of that day", or knowledge of that day, the event, then, is really unknown. In the case of the Rapture, even "the angels of heaven" have never witnessed such an event as the mass exodus of believers to be with the lord! So "of that day", the reality of the experience of that day "no, not the angels of heaven" could know either. Any way it was just a thought. I always like to read what you think! Love in Christ

My reply

Thanks for your kind words of encouragement. I love the Lord dearly, couldn't get through the day without him. I'm glad it shows.

Mt. 24:35,36 says, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." After all the discussion, I think it is amazing to realize that we can now KNOW the day and hour that part of the heavens and part of the elements of Earth will pass away.

II Peter 3:5-7 says, "this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of old, and the EARTH standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the HEAVENS and the EARTH, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against THE DAY OF JUDGMENT (the Judgment Seat of Christ, the Day of God's Wrath) and perdition of ungodly men." It is talking about the HEAVENS and the EARTH being destroyed on "THE DAY," one particular day. I think it's Tishri 1, 5768, Sept. 13, 2007.

Verse 10 says, "the day of the Lord (the Millennium) will come (1st day) as a thief in the night (Rev. 3:3, i.e., the Pre-Wrath Rapture will precede God's Wrath); in the which the HEAVENS shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the EARTH also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." That is "THE DAY."

Noon is the hour Zeph. 2:4,5. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Letter of Warning
I can now more clearly see that scripture does seem to point to two different raptures.

Thank you for the thorough and very thoughtful response. It helped clear up a very confusing area as far as the way future events may unfold.

You are truly blessed!! God is using you in remarkable way! Keep up the GREAT WORK! Your friend in Christ Jesus

Incoming email

For a futurist viewpoint, your site is great. It remains to be seen as to whether there will be "two raptures."

I am currently of the view that the rapture of the church will occur as Christ descends to the Mount of Olives.

Obviously you disagree. The truth will be in the proof. It cannot be far away now.

But we need to bear this in mind. God can choose another "window of opportunity if He wishes." He did this when the Israelites rebelled and the entry into Caanan was put back by 40 years.

If we are still here in 20 years time, I will not be surprised. I will not be surprised if we are not either.

Within five years, the Australian government is going to force every one here to carry a card with a microchip containing all their information based on the person's DNA recorded in the chip. No one will be able to say no. This was confirmed in the Sunday Telegraph 14 Jan. 2001 page 29.

This is the last step before the actual mark of the beast to be enforced in the right hand or forhead. Everything is ready.

If the church goes through the tribulation period as I think it will, life will not be so easy for those of us who refuse this mark....

You cannot even get a prescription issued at a pharmacy here now without producing your Medicare card. This had just been inplemented silently.

If you would like an interesting Israeli email discussion net for your information, try britam@netvision.com.il

Rabbi yair Davidy is conducting some interesting discussion! Kind regards

My reply

> > I am currently of the view that the rapture of the church will occur as Christ descends to the Mount of Olives.

Pre-Trib Rapture. The wise virgins go with the Bridegroom when he comes. He snatches up the 24 elders (12 patriarchs of Israel and 12 apostles, John included) before the Tribulation starts. They sit on 12 thrones in Rev. 4:4. The rest of the Bride group are caught up at the same time. They are the ones "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" in Rev. 5:9. They see Christ given the little book, the Title Deed of the Earth. They are in Heaven BEFORE he has the book and BEFORE he breaks the 1st seal in Rev. 6. They are the ones kept "FROM" the trial that is to come upon the whole world (Rev. 3:10). They are the wise virgins that will "be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS THAT SHALL COME TO PASS, AND TO STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN" (Luke 21:36).

Pre-Wrath Rapture. The 2nd Rapture is of "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, (who) stood before the throne, and before the Lamb" Rev. 7:9. "These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14). They are in Heaven AFTER the 6th seal has been broken in Rev. 6:12 and BEFORE the 7th seal is broken in Rev. 8.

All the saints of both Raptures are in Heaven on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord, the day of God's Wrath, 7 months before the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13). This is Christ's Coronation Day, also the day of the Marriage of the Lamb, the Rapture of the Tribulation saints and the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Rev. 11:15-18 shows this. It says, "there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world ARE BECOME (this day) the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and HE SHALL reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art (on the 1st day of the Millennium), and wast (at the First Coming), and art TO COME (at the Second Advent 7 months future); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations WERE angry (Gog's army is attacking Israel), and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, SMALL AND GREAT; AND shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth" (with the asteroid impacts on the same day).

Those saints, small and great, are in Heaven 7 months BEFORE the Second Advent. Eze. 39:12,13 says, "And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD." He is glorified at the Second Advent. Mt. 25:31 says, "When the Son of man shall come in his glory (Second Advent), and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory."

Luke 13:28 says, "There shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out." The time when Abraham is in the kingdom of God is the time of the 1st Rapture. That is when the foolish virgins are "THRUST OUT." It cannot be at the time of the 2nd Rapture, because on that day ALL saints, "small and great" are in Heaven getting their rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.

On the Day of God's Wrath, day of the 2nd Rapture, the smoky atmosphere rolls back like a scroll and men look up and see the Sign of the Son of Man (Mt. 24:30). It is the day that the 6th seal is opened. At 6 PM, the Day of God's Wrath will begin. Rev. 6:12-17 says, "when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and HIDE US FROM THE FACE OF HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE, AND FROM THE WRATH OF THE LAMB: FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"

On the day of the Second Advent, all the saints are in Heaven with Christ. Then he comes to Earth riding on a white horse with all his saints following him. Rev. 19:14 says, "And the armies WHICH WERE IN HEAVEN FOLLOWED HIM upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean." On that day, "the LORD my God shall COME, and ALL THE SAINTS WITH THEE" (Zech. 14:5).

> > God can choose another "window of opportunity if He wishes."

He could, but I don't think he will. He made a plan before the world began. At that time, because he was/is omniscient, he knew exactly how everything was going to take place. No changes need to be made now. As for Israel's 40 years in the wilderness, I think that was all in the plan from the beginning. Because he is omniscient, he knew how that would go down too. That 40 years of testing and probation was a type of the 40 years of testing and probation from 1967 to 2007.

> > If the church goes through the tribulation period as I think it will, life will not be so easy for those of us who refuse this mark.

When the first group of saints out of all nations is seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9, before the 1st seal on the little book is broken in Rev. 6, I don't understand how you could think the church would go through the Tribulation. Only those foolish servants cut off will do that. Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the foolish servant) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the Tribulation) with the UNBELIEVERS." Jesus was talking about a foolish BELIEVER being left behind WITH THE UNBELIEVERS. Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH." This is the man without a wedding garment that is cast outside Heaven's door at the Rapture. The kings says, "Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH. For many are called, but few are chosen."

Mt. 25:27,30 says, "at my coming (at the Rapture)...cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness (lit., outside the doors darkness): THERE SHALL BE WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."

You can sure see by world events that the Tribulation is close. That makes the Rapture even closer. Agape

Incoming email

Re: pseudo-elijah. Here is some more I found on this man I thought you'd like to know.

My reply

> > Barak, you are a law breaker and judgment upon this land is because the blood is on your hands and your governments hands for what your doing. You set me, you let them take me to that interior department, torment me every time I come into the country, every time I went out, you allowed those people to torment me and the interior department with the Haredim and then you had the secret police harass me, pick me up, you had the Massad come against me and haul me to a mental hospital. They tried to destroy me with drugs and pills but God raised me up, God kept me alive, God gives me life, you can't kill me.

Then, this man cannot be the real Elijah. Rev. 11:5,6 says, "if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and DEVOURETH THEIR ENEMIES: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will." Agape

Incoming email

Hope all is well with you. Saw this translation of Greek and found it interesting. Love in Christ
http://wedg.westhost.com/cgi-bin/forum03.cgi?fn=980790993&topic_page=9807 36314&msgdate=0101

Re: Two theories / could it be?, Author: LEK, 1-29-01

I do believe that a "partial rapture" theory is probable. There is too much in the New Testement where the Lord admonishes us to be "watching".

My husband is Greek and reads classical greek. In Luke, CH 21, Verse 36 Jesus says, "Watch therefore, and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass. andto stand beofre the Son of Man."

Mike tells me the greek for "watch therefore" is a word they use for "sleeping with one eye open". The "pray always" is to literally "begging" to be found worthy.

Food for thought.
A pre-trib partial rapture ("Harpazo") for those found watching and ready. Then the rest to join Jesus and the saints at the 2nd coming.

My pastor has taught on this - there are several verses he uses to support this theory. Look at the story of the 4 stewards in Luke 12:41-48. All 4 types are saved...but all are not raptured. In Jesus

My reply

Thanks. Re: "watch" in Lu.21:36: Strongs and Thayer have "agrupneo," to be sleepless, i.e., keep awake, watch." I added "sleeping with one eye open." That sounds like the way a shepherd sleeps. Predators can sneak up on the flock at night.

The verse that shows some of the Lord's servants will be left behind is Lu. 12:46. It says, "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." Agape

Incoming email

I'm not sure I agree with everything written in this post, but the fact that there is technology in place to produce such an event, is interesting. Satan mimics everything God does. Anyway, perhaps you'd like to read it. Agape.

My reply

> > : ARE YOU PREPARED IF THE ILLUMINATI STAGES A FAKE RAPTURE OF THE TRUE CHRISTIAN CHURCH? -Subtitle: The Illuminati now claims to have the technical capability to stage the Rapture, they might just carry it out in order to throw extreme panic, confusion, and despair into the hearts of genuine Christians just before their beloved Antichrist arises. Would you be ready?

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1375.cfm
> > "I have learned that the [New Age] Movement has devoted a great deal of research and attention to the use of holographic images. These are three-dimensional images created in space by use of laser beams. David Spangler said in a meeting in Southfield, Michigan, February 1, 1982, that laser beam projectors had been installed for use on top of the Cathedral of St. John the Divine, Episcopal, in New York City.
> > "I talked to lighting experts to see what laser beam projectors are capable of and I was told they can be beamed onto telecommunications satellites. The New Agers have several of these at their disposal. When the lasers bounce from the satellite back to earth, the light rays can be bent in such a manner as to appear that flames are coming from the sky. These satellites can also be used to project a three-dimensional holographic image viewable by up to one-third of the earth's population. There is even technology to make the image speak in the language of the areas to which it is beamed." [Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow , pg. 24, published in 1983]
> > "And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire." [Rev 16:8] Here we see Jesus Christ empowering this angel with Divine ability to scorch men with fire, the fire of the Sun.
> > ...the word 'power' in the original Greek meant "ability", "competency", "mastery over", and "superhuman". The word is Strong's G1849, 'exousia', and is power granted by a superhuman outside force. In other words, Jesus Christ is prophesied to allowSatan to give the forces of Antichrist special "ability, competency, and mastery over" the knowledge as to how to carry out these specific acts of Divine Judgment.

The author failed to see that Rev. 16:1 says that these are "the vials of THE WRATH OF GOD." This is when the False Prophet is deposed from office. The Sword of the Lord "shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened" (Zech. 11:17). He is on the receiving end of the wrath of God, not able "to carry out these specific acts of Divine Judgment." God doesn't need any help from the False Prophet to pour out God's wrath on the False Prophet and Gog's army that is attacking Israel.

Zech. 5:4 says of "the curse," the asteroid, "I WILL BRING IT FORTH, SAITH THE LORD OF HOSTS (Christ, Isa. 44:6), and it shall enter into the house of the thief (False Prophet, a thief like Judas Iscariot), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Beast, the Tribulation Pope): and it (the asteroid of Rev. 8:10) shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

> > the standard prophecy teaching that the Church will be Raptured before Antichrist will appear -- based upon 2 Thessalonians 2 -- is based solely on his [and other's] private interpretation....This is also the interpretation of standard prophecy teaching today, and has resulted in millions of Christians falsely believing they will never see Antichrist because they will be taken in the Rapture beforehand.

We will be taken beforehand. Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Spirit-filled believers must be caught up in the Rapture, THEN (tote, at the same time) the False Prophet will be revealed. II Thess. 2:6-8 (Concordant Literal Bible) says, "now you are aware what is detaining, for him (the False Prophet) to be unveiled in his own era (the Tribulation). For the secret of lawlessness is already operating. ONLY WHEN the present DETAINER (the Holy Spirit filled Church) may be COMING TO BE OUT OF THE MIDST (the Pre-Trib Rapture), then (tote, at the same time) will be unveiled the lawless one."

> > Therefore, such Christians will possibly suffer two double whammies -- first, they will be shaken to discover they have not been taken in a false Rapture which they believe to have been real; secondly, they will be immediately treated to the spectacle of Antichrist arising on the world scene, in full view of TV cameras, displaying unprecedented occult power, lying signs and wonders, and deceiving multitudes, an event they have been conditioned to believe will never happen.
> > Such Christians will be overwhelmed with doubt, because they thoroughly believed the standard prophecy line that was never based upon Scripture in the first place, but only on the "private interpretation" of a phalanx of Bible prophecy teachers.

There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when unwise servant believers are spued out of Christ's mouth (Rev. 3:16) and left behind to suffer during the 2300 days of the shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:13,14). Lu. 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion with the UNBELIEVERS."

> > Christians thus indoctrinated to the Rapture occurring before Antichrist arises will thus have been delivered a double whammy blow. Most of these Christians also do not know when the 7-year Tribulation Period actually begins. Most erroneously believe it begins when Antichrist arises, even though Daniel 9:27 makes it quite clear that the 7-year period begins the moment Antichrist "confirms the Covenant" with the "many" -- Israel's leaders. Thus, a period of time will occur from the moment Antichrist arises to the moment he convinces the Jewish Orthodox leadership he is their Messiah, thus prompting Jewish religious leaders to announce to their followers that this man is their Messiah. Antichrist can confirm the Covenant only after being officially accepted by Jewish religious leadership.

The Tribulation will begin when the covenant of Dan. 9:27 is confirmed. The False Prophet is not in full power until the middle of the Tribulation, after the Beast rules the 1st 1260 days. Therefore, the False Prophet will confirm the covenant before being accepted as "another" (Rev. 13:10) who comes in his own name that they will accept. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Singing planet
I saw this, and just thought you might be interested.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast19jan_1.htm

Earth Songs
Our planet is a natural source of radio waves at audio frequencies. An online receiver at the Marshall Space Flight Center is playing these songs of Earth so anyone can listen....

January 19, 2001 -- If humans had radio antennas instead of ears, we would hear a remarkable symphony of strange noises coming from our own planet. Scientists call them "tweeks," "whistlers" and "sferics." They sound like background music from a flamboyant science fiction film, but this is not science fiction. Earth's natural radio emissions are real and, although we're mostly unaware of them, they are around us all the time.

"Everyone's terrestrial environment almost literally sings with radio waves at audio frequencies," says Dennis Gallagher, a space physicist at the Marshall Space Flight Center (MSFC). "Our ears can't detect radio waves directly, but we can convert them to sound waves with the aid of a very low frequency (VLF) radio receiver."

Lightning strokes...are the source of the eerie-sounding radio emissions that surround us.

My reply

Thanks. Reminds me of Job 38:4-7. It says, "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy." Agape

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