> > I dont want to go to hell
Once you have accepted Christ, you can't go to hell. When we accept Christ, he baptizes us that moment with the Holy Spirit. This seals us until the day of redemption. We cannot be lost. After being born into God's family, we can't get unborn any more than we could when we were babies born into this world. We have security and eternal life. At that point all our old sins are wiped off the books, and we get a new start. After that, when we sin, we must confess it to God (not a priest) so God can cleanse us of all unrighteousness. I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
The Biblical order is faith in Christ first, then baptism as a public confession of your faith. Baptism does not save us. It follows Salvation. In baptism by immersion, you identify with Christ in his death and symbolically come up to a new life in Christ. I was sprinkled in the Methodist Church, but when I found out that Jesus was immersed, I was baptized again by immersion.
If you play the organ at church, surely you are old enough to make your own decision where you want to worship the Lord. The Catholic Church service might be so filled with rituals that there would not be much time for real Bible study. You will have to compare the two church services and see which one teaches you more about the Bible. I changed from the Methodist Church to the Baptist Church because the Baptists opened their Bibles and studied straight from Scripture. I like that, because then we can be sure that what they are saying is right. Otherwise, we have to take time to compare what they say with Scripture to be sure whether or not it agrees with the Bible. Humans can be wrong. The Bible can't be wrong. Our understanding of it might be wrong, but the scriptures are 100% true.
The Bible is the only rock-hard truth we have to go by. It is the standard by which all else must be measured. Start with the New Testament, and read it for yourself so you will know if something is the truth or not. Pray for wisdom. James 1:5-7 says, "If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord."
Pray and ask the Lord to show you where you should worship him. It isn't up to your family to decide for you. You must make your own decision. I would go where I could open my Bible and really study Scripture. This life is a test. God gave us a manual so we could pass our test. It isn't his fault if we don't read it.
The Rapture is drawing near. In Luke 21:36, Jesus said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things (the Tribulation) that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Agape
FIRST RAPTURE=PRESENT DAY SAINTS WHO ARE OVER-COMERS AND DEAD IN CHRIST IN ALL SORTS OF SPIRITUAL CONDITIONS.
SECOND RAPTURE=TRIBULATION SAINTS WHO MUST FIRST MAKE THEIR ROBES WHITE. THIS DOES NOT CREATE A CORRECTLY PROPORTIONED PICTURE.. ??????? DOES IT?
I agree. The Lord is fair. Surely each will be with the group they have a right to be in.
> > THE DEAD IN CHRIST IS A MUCH LARGER GROUP AND THEY DIED IN ALL DIFFERENT KINDS OF SPIRITUAL CONDITIONS TOO!!!! THEY WILL BE A PART OF THE BRIDE OF CHRIST BECAUSE THE BIBLE SAYS THE DEAD IN CHRIST WILL RISE FIRST!
I don't think all the dead in Christ will be part of the Bride group. Salvation is free, but to be in the Bride group caught up in the 1st Rapture is a prize that has to be earned. The First Resurrection is in ranks. Christ first, then those that came out of their graves on Resurrection Day in 30 AD. Next will be the Bride of Christ at the Pre-Trib Rapture. Last will be the rest of the Body of Christ at the Pre-Wrath Rapture. I Cor. 15:22, 23 says, "in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."
> > ARE THE DEAD IN CHRIST WHO WERE VERY SPIRITUAL GOING WITH THE FIRST GROUP IN RAPTURE #1 AND THOSE DEAD INCHRIST WHO WERE NOT AS SPIRITUAL GOING IN THE SECOND RAPTURE WITH THE TRIBULATION SAINTS?
It makes sense to me that those that are filled with the Holy Spirit will be among those at the Pre-Trib Rapture. If they are foolish servants, they are in danger of getting cut off and appointed 2300 days with the unbelievers. Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
> > FIRST RAPTURE=PRESENT DAY SAINTS WHO ARE OVER-COMERS AND DEAD IN CHRIST IN ALL SORTS OF SPIRITUAL CONDITIONS. > > SECOND RAPTURE=TRIBULATION SAINTS WHO MUST FIRST MAKE THEIR ROBES WHITE. > > THIS DOES NOT CREATE A CORRECTLY PROPORTIONED PICTURE.
No. The 1st Rapture is of all those in Christ that are counted as wise virgins with enough oil of the Holy Spirit in their vessels (bodies).
The 2nd Rapture is every saint that was not included the 1st time. Agape
The PRIZE Paul pressed ahead for...he knew who was going to win that PRIZE... CHRIST in him and through him and he knew he could never keep it because it would be layed at the feet of THE KING OF GLORY WHO PERFORMED THE WORK IN HIM!! We do not get ANY CREDIT for being saved or walking the walk or winning the PRIZE...GOD does not intend to share HIS GLORY witha man or a woman. ALL GLORY BELONGS TO HIM! Otherwise we could turn to our fellow believers and say " Look what I accomplished". No true Christian on earth wants to make that claim...for THE LORD would certainly correct the person...we must take care that we do not try to SHARE THE LORD'S GLORY. someone tried that once and he was cast away!
If that is so, then don't run the race to win the prize. I prefer to do like Paul. He said, "I press toward the mark for the PRIZE OF THE HIGH (ano, upward) CALLING OF GOD IN CHRIST JESUS." That upward calling is the Rapture. I am running the race to win the prize.
> > we must take care that we do not try to SHARE THE LORD'S GLORY
I don't want what belongs to the Lord. I don't want glory. I simply want what rewards I have earned since I accepted Christ. There are those that shall receive a reward and those that shall be saved; yet so as by fire, i.e., with no reward other than their salvation. I already have salvation. Now I am working for rewards.
I Cor. 3:10-15 says, "let every man TAKE HEED how he buildeth thereupon. For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; EVERY MAN'S WORK SHALL BE MADE MANIFEST: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's WORK of what sort it is. IF ANY MAN'S WORK ABIDE WHICH HE HATH BUILT THEREUPON, HE SHALL RECEIVE A REWARD. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall SUFFER LOSS: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."
If you'd rather "suffer loss," so be it. You will still be saved, yet so as by fire. Agape
PEOPLE WHO JUST MUST WORK THEIR WAY TO HEAVEN SO THEY CAN TAKE PARTIAL CREDIT SO THEY WILL FEEL IMPORTANT ARE MORE IN DANGER OF MISSING THE RAPTURE THAN A CONTRITE SINNER...PAUL ALSO SAID...HE WHO SAYS HE IS WITHOUT SIN IS A LIAR. ONLY CHRIST IS WORTHY...HE MADE US WORTHY BY HIS GOING TO THE CROSS AND YOU CAN NOT ADD FILTHY UNWORTHY RIGHTEOUS WORKS...TO THAT AND MAKE HEAVEN!!
You are mixing up Salvation with the Rapture. They are 2 separate things. Salvation is free, solely by grace, a free gift in return for our accepting Christ. The Rapture is something that happens when the Bridegroom (Christ) comes for his Bride. All believers have Salvation. Not all believers are chosen as part of the Bride of Christ, only the wise virgins with enough oil of the Holy Spirit in their vessels (bodies). In Mt. 22:1-14, the man without a wedding garment (white) was cast outside the door. Verses 13 and 14 say, "cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are CHOSEN." I aim to be one of the chosen. You make your own choice. Just don't blame me if you end up weeping and gnashing your teeth. In Rev. 17:14, the Rapture has just taken place. Those "that ARE WITH HIM ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL."
> > HE MADE US WORTHY BY HIS GOING TO THE CROSS AND YOU CAN NOT ADD FILTHY UNWORTHY RIGHTEOUS WORKS...TO THAT AND MAKE HEAVEN!!
Because we accepted Him as our Saviour, he gave us the gift of Salvation and a heavenly home. He just didn't say at which Rapture we would get there, though, the one that is as the days of Noah (water fell) or the one that is as the days of Lot (fire fell that same day, Lu. 17:29). At the first Rapture, some will be spued out of Christ's mouth (Rev. 3:16), because they are not wearing spiritual white wedding garments. They will have to endure chastening (Rev. 3:19) and be caught up in the second Rapture. By that time, they will have "washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14). All our known sins committed since we accepted Christ need to be confessed, so he can cleanse us of all unrighteousness (I John 1:9). Then we are wise virgins wearing white robes.
James 2:18 says, "shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works." Agape
No, and I didn't say that. Christ is the judge, and I'm quite sure he has his own criteria. It doesn't matter whether you agree with me or not. I personally am running the race to win. What you do is your own decision. We are put here to be tested.
> > YOU ARE ALREADY UNDER CONDEMNATION WHEN YOU STAND AS JUDGE OF ANOTHER BELIEVER
I am not judging anyone. I know better than that. Mt. 7:1 says, "Judge not, that ye be not judged." Whether you are chosen as one of the Bride group is between you and the Lord. I could not even hazard a guess. I don't know that much about you. I just try to quote I John 1:9 frequently to everyone to be helpful in case someone hadn't remembered that we are supposed to confess all our sins, so He can cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Why that should upset you, I haven't a clue. I am not accusing you of anything.
> > YOU ARE SETTING YOURSELF UP FOR A FALL!!!! PRIDE COMETH BEFORE A FALL.
I am a humble 72-year old woman. I have no pride or desire for fame. I couldn't care less about that. I actually shrink from that. I merely want to be helpful if at all possible. If you will think about it, I did not single you out and send you e-mail. I answered e-mail you sent me.
> > THE VERY FACT THAT YOU THINK YOU ARE ONE OF THE CHOSEN SET APART FROM THE BODY OF CHRIST SHOWS THAT YOU HAVE NOT ENTERED IN THE NARROW GATE...GRACE.
Oops. Are you judging?
> > YOU ARE SEPARATING THE RAPTURE FROM SALVATION AND THAT IS IN ERROR. SALVATION, THE RAPTURE, ETERNAL LIFE, FELLOWSHIP WITH CHRIST ARE ALL IN ONE VERY COMPLETE PACKAGE
OK. You just keep hanging on to that. I'll hang on to I John 4-10. It says, "these things write we unto you, that your joy may be full. This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
> > I WANT YOU TO GO IN THE RAPTURE, MARILYN. CAN YOU SAY THAT TO ME AND SINCERELY MEAN IT?
Of course. Why else would I be spending every minute I can answering e-mail?
> > PROBABLY ONLY IF I WILL CONCEDE TO YOU AND ADMIT THAT YOU ARE CORRECT AND HAVE COMPLETE REVELATION FROM GOD ON THIS SUBJECT WHICH I COULD NEVER DO.
Unconditionally, I sincerely want you to be part of the Bride group, a wise virgin ready when the Bridegroom comes. I have no direct revelation from God on any subject. The only time he spoke to me, he said, "Be still and know that I am God." That is all. I have just studied the Bible as hard and as deep as I can go for over 40 years. My opinions are just that, my opinions. Your duty is to compare them with Scripture and see if these things are so. Why are you yelling at me? Do you have a chip on your shoulder?
> > BUT KNOW THIS...ACCEPT FOR THE GRACE OF GOD I WOULD BE LOST AND SO WOULD YOU!
Very true. We would all be on a slick slide to Hell if God hadn't taken pity on us and provided us a Saviour. You know, he didn't have to. He has no one more powerful than he to tell him what he should or shouldn't do. We are so lucky that we have a good God that cares about us. We are powerless to save ourselves. Without Christ, the first time we told a lie, we would have been done for--lost forever. Agape
Of course, I forgive you. I can't imagine what gave you the idea that I was not saved. I made sure of that before I started studying the Bible as hard as I could go.
> > it greatly concerns me that people will try to find a way to Heaven without Christ!
There is no other way. Acts 4:12 says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Christ is the foundation upon which we build. I Cor. 3:11-15 says, "For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire." Salvation cannot be earned; it is a free gift. Without Christ as the foundation, nothing else counts. Rewards can be earned by believers.
The prize can be earned by believers. To escape in the 1st Rapture, we all must be accounted worthy. That is the difference between the wise and foolish virgins, the wise and foolish servants. The wise are accounted worthy. They have enough oil of the Holy Spirit. Jesus told his disciples, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." The lord of the foolish servant "will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him (the foolish believer) his portion with the UNBELIEVERS." Agape
There is a Scripture that says, "I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images." (Isa 42:8)
However, read the Scripture below and be awed:
" And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:" (John 17:22) John
I am currently studying Biblical Prophecy, specifically the 'End Times' and would appreciate any help you can give. I have quite a few sources, but none are quite as clear as your own. One that comes to mind is written by Timothy Dailey and David Howard (both Ph.D.'s), "Amazing Prophecies of the Bible". Unfortunately, I am not currently a member of any church as we just recently moved to a new area, and none of the few pastor's I've spoken with seem to want to address this issue, at all. I think it is essential! I am truly not obsessed, yet, however, I would like to find as much information as possible, and hopefully come to at least an approximate day/month these events will occur--specifically the Rapture.
Are you still suggesting the Tribulation begins this year, 2001? If so, is it at all possible the Rapture will not occur until the end of the 3 1/2 years of so called 'peace'? There are so many different interpretations and the more I seem to read of other sources, the more I get confused. In addition, by Study bible (NKJV) does not give me quite the information I'm looking for either.
I would greatly appreciate it if you could point me in the right direction, or tell me if you've found any answers.
Thank you for taking the time to read my request, and may God bless you in all your efforts. Yours Truly
The first edition was called Exit: 2007: The Secret of Secrets Revealed. After that, Avon Books changed the title to The End of the Age.
> > I find your logic quite compelling, and have had a difficult time trying to figure out where the dates went wrong?
1998 was so definitely marked, it surely has great significance, even if it wasn't the Rapture. It was the 480th year in the Modern Parallels. I think it was the 6000th year since man's test being mortal and knowing both good and evil began when Adam was cast out of Eden. It seems to have been the beginning of the years mentioned in the parable of the barren fig tree in Luke 13:6-9 too. What I didn't see, until someone reread the parable carefully and suddenly saw it in a new light, was that Christ only spoke in the 3rd year. He came in the 2 previous years to check for fruit on the fig tree (Israel), but did not speak until the 3rd time. At the Rapture, he speaks and says, "Come up hither."
> > Are you still suggesting the Tribulation begins this year, 2001?
Yes, I'm hoping for Pentecost, May 28, 2001, for first the Rapture, then the beginning of the Tribulation.
> > is it at all possible the Rapture will not occur until the end of the 3 1/2 years of so called 'peace'?
I don't see how that could be possible.
> > tell me if you've found any answers
I found that "general assembly" in Heb. 12:23 is "panegurei," a FESTAL assembly (Thayer). It was translated that way in the NAB, Berkeley, RSV, Phillips, and JB. That points to the Rapture on a feast day. I still think Song of Sol. 2:10-14 indicates a spring Rapture. The rain being over and gone knocks out the 3 feasts of Tishri (month of the former rain) and the 3 feasts of Nisan (month of the latter rain). Only Pentecost is left. Only at Pentecost are there green figs and firstripe grapes.
The other thing I found was in II Thess. 2:6-8, It says, "now ye know what withholdeth (the Holy Spirit in us, the salt of the Earth) that he (the False Prophet) might be revealed in his time (when he confirms the covenant of Dan. 9:27 as the Tribulation begins). For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (the Holy Spirit in us) who now letteth will let (Old English for hindereth will hinder), until he be taken out of the way (at the Rapture). And THEN (TOTE, AT THE SAME TIME) shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders." It looks like the Rapture could be just before the confirming of the covenant, on Pentecost, 2001 (May 28).
If the 3rd year in the parable of the barren fig tree represents the year of the Rapture, it fits. 1998 + 3 = 2001. We don't have long to wait to find out.
Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." We should use I John 1:9 and confess all known sins since we accepted Christ. All must be brought under the blood of Christ. Agape
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