Pro and Con 69, Uploaded 3-1-98

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Subject: A Great and Wonderous Sign (Rev 12)
Wanted to share this with you...ASTRONOMICALLY SIGNIFICANT EVENT details from a Messianic Jew.
"A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. Then being with child, she cried out in labor and pain as she was about to give birth. And another sign appeared in heaven: Behold a great fiery red dragon with seven heads and ten horns and seven crowns on his heads. His tail swept a third of the stars out of the sky and flung them to the earth. The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. The woman fled into the desert to a place prepared for her by God, where she might be taken care of for 1,260 days." Revelation 12:1-5

There is a sequence of four celestial snapshots taken on Yom Teruah (The Feast of Trumpets) 5757-5760(1996-1999) The snapshots show a progression of the new moon that may be seen as the birth pangs. In 5757 and in 5760, the sign occurs on Shabbat(Sabbath). It is believed that 5757 begins the birth pangs with the birth taking place in 5760.


The Dragon is the constellation, Draco. Chamah (Sun) is just below the horizon such that Bethulah is 'clothed' with Chamah. Chamah must be below the horizon in order to have any possibility of seeing this 'sign'. Lavanah (moon) is 'new' and after 'birth Lavanah will move directly to the feet of Bethulah (Virgo, the virgin) within 24 hours.Over Bethulah's head is the mazzaroth (constellation) known as 'Bernice's hair'. This is the crown of twelve stars! Higher and above her legs, we will find Draco, the Dragon, poised to devour Bethulah's child.

The beginning sign occurs in 5757(1996) which is year 19 of the 19 year lunar cycle. 5758 will begin a new lunar cycle of 19 years. Those who celebrate Rosh Chodesh (the new moon) have learned that Messiah is represented by Lavanah (Moon). Lavanah represents Messiah in this unique astronomical event.

Remember: God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for SIGNS, and for seasons and for days and years." Genesis 1:14

The SIGN depicted above, is how it looks from Jerusalem! Remember that God's view is aways from Jerusalem.

Consider this an interesting speculation. Not as gospel truth, could this be how God will display this sign?? It does seem to suggest that it might be the sign spoken of in Revelation 12.

This info found at http://

Here's One More SIGN, Keep Looking Up Jesus Is Coming!

My reply

I think the sign in Rev. 12:1 represents Israel in the middle of the Tribulation. There are 1260 days left of the 7-year Tribulation (v. 6). This is when Satan is cast out of Heaven to the Earth (v. 9). Notice that the woman flees into the wilderness (v. 6), something that literal stars do not do. The reference to the sun, moon and stars goes back to Joseph's dream. They represented his father, mother, Joseph and his brothers (Gen. 37:9,10).

The man child has been thought to be Christ, yet the overcomer of Rev. 2:27 will also rule with a rod of iron. The word "man" is not masculine, but neuter, which seems strange if it means Christ. Also, Christ does not ascend in the middle of the Tribulation. Who does? God's two witnesses of the previous chapter.

And why does the woman flee into the wilderness? Because the False Prophet becomes indwelt by Satan in the middle of the Tribulation. He loses no time sitting in the Temple shewing that he is God. He demands worship which the two witnesses will not give him. He kills them. This is why the flight into the wilderness in necessary for "the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (v.17). The False Prophet will "make war" with this remnant.

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Your right, the sign in Rev 12 does represent Israel in the middle of the Tribulation.

The great pageant appearing in the stars portrays things to come. This sign is appearing in the stars before it (the fleeing- Which is the literal part) literally takes place on earth.

The pageant of constellations now appearing have never before appeared and will never be repeated. Revelation 12:1-5 is written in the stars. Revelation 12:6 is the literal fleeing of Israel.

So what does this sign mean? The writer notes it is important that the emphasis is on the woman, not on the man child. The sign seems to be telling us what the woman is going to do.The obvious question, then is who is the woman? Jeremiah 3:20 compares Israel to a faithless woman. Ezekiel 16 likens Jerusalem to a woman. Isaiah 66:5-9 seems to be the closest match to our passage in Revelation 12.

The writer thinks this Isaiah passage is indicating that the woman represents the people who come forth from Zion, her true citizens. The child he believes is the Messiah(?) The child, is in heaven while the woman flees into the wilderness to be protected for 1260 days. This sign, in Revelation 12 seems to be the signal that the children of Zion are going to flee into the wilderness to begin a period of 1260 days of nourishment and protection by GOD.

I am looking forward to reading Revelations 2000 and getting your insight.

My reply

Thanks for your book order and your patience. I am terribly sorry it has taken so long....I am promised by Avon Books that I will have them within 14 days now. I had no idea it took several weeks to get an order of books....

> Isaiah 66:5-9 seems to be the closest match to our passage in Revelation 12.

That's right. In Isa. 66:7, the woman is Israel, and there, the man child is Jesus Christ. However, he was born "BEFORE she travailed... BEFORE her pain came."

In Rev. 12:2, "she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and PAINED to be delivered." If Christ was born before her pain came, I do not see how the "man child" in Rev. 12 could be Christ, as many teach. The woman is the same, but the time is different. The man child here must be the two witnesses who "ascended up to heaven in a cloud" in Rev. 11:12.

In the middle of the Tribulation, Satan and his angels are cast down to Earth, "and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered for to devour her child as soon as it was born" (Rev. 12:4).

Satan killed the two witnesses in the exact middle of the Tribulation for they would not bow to him or his image. They were resurrected after 3 1/2 days, "And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them." There was nothing Satan and his angels could do about the witnesses then, so "the dragon was wroth with the woman (Israel), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (Rev. 12:17). By this time, the remnant that know their Bible have a 3 1/2 day lead on the forces Satan sends after them. They fled Judaea for the mountains as soon as they saw the "abomination of desolation" (Mt. 24:15) in the temple Mid-Tribulation.

Rev. 12:13-16 says, "And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child. And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle (airplane?), that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place (Petra), where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time (the 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation), from the face of the serpent. And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman...And the earth...opened her mouth, and swallewed up the flood."

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...the books...I am enjoying them so very much and plan on reading and rereading them. The amount of work you have put into your study is overwhelming, it is much appreciated!

Secondly, I wanted to ask you a question regarding bible translations. I currently have the KJV and the New KJV and I noticed that you use many different translations. Two that stick in my mind that you have mentioned are the LAMSA and the Jerusalem bible. I was wanting to get another translation to help in my studies and wanted to see if you could recommend one.

Thirdly, (and this is kind of unusual!).....We have two sons that are 10 and 11 years old. We have bible study together with them every morning before taking them to school. We are very serious about learning God's word and we all enjoy it very much. Several months ago our youngest son came to study and said "While I was still in my bed I saw a big I in front of me and I looked and it said 'Isaiah 23:6' ". I must tell you that we are not the brand of Christians that are always running after some kind of sign or wonder! This boy is very tender before the Lord but this is the first and only time he has ever claimed to have any kind of experience like this. He is a very honest child who loves the Lord very we were kind of surprised by this occurance!!!..and of course we looked up the scripture which reads in the New KJV "Cross over to Tarshish; Wail you inhabitants of the coastland". Do you have any light to shed on this particular scripture? This is one of the reasons I would like another translation also, it possibly could help in studying this.

Anyway, we love your website, we check it daily.....and we are waiting for the Lord's return with great anticipation and excitement. We truly do love His appearing (and wonder at our fellow Christians who don't seem concerned one way or the other!) God Bless you Marilyn!

My reply

> I was wanting to get another translation to help in my studies and wanted to see if
> you could recommend one.

First, I would not get the RSV.

Next to my most used KJV, the Scofield Bible, I use the Septuagint (LXX) most (English Translation of the Greek Scriptures used in Jesus' day). The 70 men who translated it had to do it under duress in a short time, so it is not considered a perfect translation. However, Jesus put his stamp of approval on the Scriptures they had in that day. I think that had to cover the Hebrew Masoretic and the Greek Septuagint. It must have been good enough. After the LXX, I'd want the NIV.

I think I have about 15 different versions of the Bible. I go to used book stores and pick up any I do not have. I had to buy the NASB new and replace my worn out Scofield with a new one, but think most of the rest I found used. I have one with 4 versions in it. Each time I set out to read the Bible again, I want to read a different version. I learn something more each time just because it is put in different words. I also enjoy the Berkely Version and the Jerusalem Bible, but take the notes with a grain of salt, which you have to with any notes anyway. The Lamsa is useful in places, but on the whole follows the KJV pretty closely.

Of course, I can't do without Green's Interlinear, either. Part of a decision could rest on how much you want to spend. The LXX wasn't cheap. I paid $40 used for Green's Interlinear Old Testament (3 vol.) and had to buy the New Testament separately. I think the NIV is not very expensive.

Now that I have read my collection already, the way I use them is to look up certain verses I am trying to understand in them all. The different words used to translate reveal more meaning than I can get from one alone.

Re" 'Isaiah 23:6'. Here is the (LXX) "Depart ye to Carthage; howl, ye that dwell in this island."

The final fulfillment of this is found in 24:3-6 (LXX): "The earth shall be completely laid waste, and the earth shall be utterly spoiled: for the mouth of the Lord has spoken these things. The earth mourns, and the world is ruined, the lofty ones of the earth are mourning...because they have transgressed the law, and changed the ordinances, even the everlasting covenant. Therefore a curse (the asteroid, the flying rolling thing, "the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth," Zech. 5:1-3) shall consume the earth, because the inhabitants thereof have sinned: therefore the dwellers in the earth shall be poor, and few men shall be left."

Way back, when I was learning things about the Bible so fast I felt like I had a tiger by the tail, President Johnson was given a statue of Isaiah 22" high. When I saw that tiny account in the newspaper, I ran to look up Isa. 22 and was utterly astonished at what I found.

Isa. 22:15-19 (Berkeley Version) says, "Come, go to this steward, to Shebna (arrogant administrator, type of Satan), who is over the palace [and say,] What do you have here (i.e., World Government and World Church at Babylon), and whom have you here (the Satan indwelt False Prophet), that you have here carved a sepluchre for yourself, you who are carving out a lofty sepulchre for yourself, hewing out A HOME in this rock (asteroid) for yourself? Behold, the LORD will hurl you away with violence, you strong man; He will thoroughly cover you. He will twist you together [and cast you] as a ball into a far-reaching land (KJV, large country, i.e., Babylonia, now Iraq); there you will die and there will be your luxurious chariots. You are the disgrace of your master's palace. I will thrust you from your office and will pull you down from your position."

Satan lived on the planet Rahab. After it was split into pieces forming the Asteroid Belt, he has lived on a piece of it. This asteroid will destroy Babylon in one hour (Rev. 18:10,21). It is the key of the bottomless pit (Rev. 9:1,2). The smoke from the impact will shut out the light of the sun, moon and stars (Mt. 24:29).

For comparison, Here is Isa. 22:15-19 in the Jerusalem Bible: "The Lord Yahweh Sabaoth says this: Go and find that steward, Shebna, the master of the palace: 'What do you own here, who gave you the right for you to hew yourself a tomb here?' He is hewing himself a tomb, is digging a RESTING-PLACE for himself in the rock. But Yahweh will throw you away, strong as you are, will grasp you in his grip, will screw you up into a ball, a ball thrown into a vast space. There you will die, with your splendid chariots, disgrace to your master's palace! I shall hound you from your office, I shall snatch you from your post."

Here is the same passage in the NIV: "This is what the Lord, the LORD Almighty (Christ, Rev. 1:8; Isa. 9:6), says: Go, say to this steward, to Shebna, who is in charge of the palace: What are you doing here and who gave you permission to cut out a grave for yourself here, hewing your grave in the height and chiseling your RESTING PLACE in the rock? Beware, the LORD is about to take firm hold of you and hurl you away, O you mighty man. He will roll you up tightly like a ball and throw you into a large country. There you will die and there your splendid chariots will remain--you disgrace to your master's house! I will depose you from your office, and you will be ousted from your position."

Here is the LXX: "Thus saith the Lord of hosts, Go into the chamber, to Somnas the treasurer, and say to him, Why art thou here? and what hast thou to do here, that thou hast here hewn thyself a sepulchre, and madest thyself a sepulchre on high, and hast graven for thyself A DWELLING in the rock? Behold now, the Lord of hosts casts forth and will utterly destroy such a man, and will take away thy robe and thy glorious crown, and will cast thee into a great and unmeasured land, and there thou shalt die: and he will bring thy fair chariot to shame, and the house of thy prince to be trodden down. And thou shalt be removed from thy stewardship, and from thy place."

Here is Green's Interlinear: "This says the Lord Jehovah of hosts, Go! Go to this treasurer, to Shebna who (is) over the house, What (is) to you here? And who (is) to you here, that you have carved a tomb for yourself here, (as one) having cut out his tomb on high, having carved out A HOME FOR HIMSELF in a rock? Behold, Jehovah hurls you (with) a hurling, O man, and grasps you with a grasping. Whirling He will surely whirl you like a ball (remember David's leather sling that threw the smooth rock at Goliath) into a broad land. You shall die there, and there your glorious chariots (shall be) the disgrace of the house of your lord. And I will drive you from your position; and he will pull you from your office."

Notice how by reading different translations, you learn more? Instead of a resting place, we can understand that this asteroid is now Satan's home.

In these, you can see the "prince of Tyrus" (rock, i.e., the False Prophet) and the "king of Tyrus" (rock, i.e., Satan) of Ezek. 28 (KJV). The first sits in the temple saying, I am a God, I sit in the seat of God, in the midst of the seas; yet thou art a man, and not God, though thou set thine heart as the heart of God." The second "hast been in Eden the garden of God." To him, the Lord says, "Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire" (Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, RAHAB, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto).

This curse is the "great star (aster, star, meteor or asteroid) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp" of Rev. 8:10. It's name is "Wormwood" (8:11). Therefore, Satan lives on Wormwood.

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My husband and I appreciate all of the energy and hours you put into your web site and study of God's word. Thank you! We look forward to reading your books.

1) Do you think that the European Union is the Revised Roman Empire?
2) Do you think that earth will last forever?

My reply

Thanks for the appreciation.

No, I do not think the EU us the Revised Roman Empire. At one time, I did, though. However, after finding out that Revelation is written as if the Rapture was "at hand" (Rev. 1:3; 22:10), and as I studied Rev. 17:12, I found out different. Here is what 17:12 says," And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have RECEIVED NO KINGDOM AS YET; but receive power as kings one hour WITH THE BEAST."

At the Rapture, the ten kings are not yet crowned. Now look at Rev. 13:1. As the Tribulation begins, John "saw a beast (the Beast of Rev. 19:20) rise up out of the sea (nations, Rev. 17:15) having seven heads and ten horns, and UPON HIS HORNS TEN CROWNS." This shows that there is a gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation. They have no crowns at the Rapture, and they are crowned as the Tribulation begins.

I think that as the Tribulation begins, the seven-year peace covenant will be confirmed (Dan. 9:27). Two men, the Beast of Rome and the False Prophet of Israel, will sign it, along with other leaders. The Beast will head up the world government and world church. Under him, these ten leaders will be set up to help him govern. Some of them may be in power now, but not yet as officials in the world government.

> 2) Do you think that earth will last forever?

Yes. The Jews "shall inherit the land for ever" (Isa. 60:21). Psa. 78:69 says, "And he built his sanctuary like high palaces (planets), like the earth (a planet) which he hath established for ever." Psa. 102:25,26 says, Of old hast thou laid the foundation of the earth: and the heavens are the work of thy hands. They shall perish, but thou shalt endure: yea, all of them shall wax old like a garment; as a vesture shalt thou change them, and they shall be changed."

They will be refreshed on the outside, as in Adam's day, as the "new" heavens and "new" earth are refreshed for the Millennium. The word translated "new" means to refresh. This is necessary at the beginning of the Millennium because--"BEHOLD, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof....The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word....because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse (the asteroid, the flying rolling thing of Zech 5, the star, "aster," of Rev. 8:10) devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left" (Isa. 24:1-6).

Thank God believers are to be caught up to Heaven before this happens. The first Rapture is as the days of Noah, when no fire fell. The second Rapture takes place the same day the fire falls, just as it was in the days of Lot. After he got out of Sodom, an asteroid destroyed Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plain. Like a giant hammer, it punched down the bedrock below the Dead Sea 2,615 ft. below sea level.

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In I Cor 15:51 the reference is to "all". There is no distinction made between "types" of believers. How do you hnadle this we a partial rature theory? I'm teachable. I know the passage says "last trump" but it has nothing in it about a first trump but it is written to include "all". Help

My reply

First, some background. As I understand it, I Thess. 4:13-18 applies to the Pre-Trib Rapture. It is when "the trump of God" sounds and "we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air, and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Because the five wise virgins go with the Bridgroom when he comes, I think the first Rapture is for the Bride of Christ. At that time the Philadelphian wise virgins will be caught up, but NOT ALL the Body of Christ will go in the first Rapture. The foolish lukewarm Laodiceans will be spewed out of his mouth (Rev. 3:16).

This is the first trump. You can't have a last trump without a first trump. These are the two trumpets of Nu. 10:2-5: "if they blow but with one trumpet (i.e., the first trump), then the princes (12 of the 24 elders of Rev. 4), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee." However, "when they shall blow with them (both), ALL the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee."

The first trump is the "trump of God," not the same as the seven trumpet judgments. Those trumpets are sounded by angels. This first trump is like the voice of Christ in Rev. 4:1. It says, "behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither." This refers back to the Preview of the Rapture in Revelation, chapter one.

In Rev. 1:10, John said he became "in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet, Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last." This is Christ (Rev. 22:13).

The first Rapture is as the days of Noah. He went into the Ark before a seven-day wait for the rain to fall. The seven days prefigure the seven-year Tribulation, and Christ is to return as the latter rain (Hos. 6:1-3).

There is a second Rapture, seen in Rev. 7:14. It takes place between the breaking of the sixth seal of Rev. 6:12 and the breaking of the seventh seal in Rev. 8:1. It is on the Day of God's Wrath. The last verse of Rev. 6 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come." The Rapture is before the "great mountain burning with fire" hits the Mediterranean Sea at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5). This Rapture is as the days of Lot. Fire fell that same day and destroyed Sodom, Gomorrah and the cities of the plain.

I Cor 15:51,52 has to do with the second Rapture. It says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep (i.e., die, sleep in Jesus), but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptibe, and we shall be changed."

It is possible that at the last trump all the assembly in heaven will become immortal, but I think this means that by that time all will have been changed.

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My reply


I don't think so. The 1260 days of the first half of the Tribulation are literal days on the Jewish calendar. All the days mentioned in Revelation, Daniel 8:14 and Daniel 12 are literal days, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning, where the first day is counted. The 2300 days run from the Feast of Weeks (beginning the Seventieth Week of Daniel) in 5761 (our 2001) to the Feast of Trumpets (the Day of God's Wrath) in 5768 (our 2007). This is not true in just any set of years. It drops the schedule of end-time events into its proper slot in our calendar. That this is the correct place is confirmed by the seven months that the Jews bury the dead (Ezek. 39:12) from Tishri 1, 5768 to the following Nisan 1, 5768 when Christ returns. Normally, there are only six months, but 5768 is a leap year, which is approximately every third year, when they add an extra month.

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...I am writing from Ireland. I really enjoy your website, keep up the good work. I just have one question. You say that: "The Rapture will probably take place during the night, which for the Jews PRECEDED the daytime. Their day starts at 6:00 P.M." Could you tell me what time it will be in Ireland...

My reply

Note: I put a link to Time Zones on my link page.

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Thank you for all that you have shared from your years of study....I enjoy your website and check it every few days for updates.

Your studies and responses have quickened my heart again to keep watching and be prepared. If you are right about the date, then thanks for keeping me prepared and ever watchful. If this date is wrong, then thanks again for reminding me that I should always be ready and watching.

A Bible teaching friend of mine that I knew years ago believes that the Earthly Kingdom will be comprised of the Old Testament saints as well as the Christians who don't have their lamps topped up with oil, with David as their king. The Heavenly Kingdom will be comprised of the spiritually prepared Christians as well as a select few of the old testament saints, such as Abraham etc. This would make sense of what Jesus said concerning John the Baptist, that he was greatest of all the prophets, but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven will be greater than John. This is because John would be part of the earthly kingdom as he died before the resurrection of Jesus.

What are you views on this?

Also I have another question. All Christians who have died and will die prior to the first rapture. Will they also be separated into two groups, that of the Bride of Christ, and the Body of Christ? If so, what will be those who were not ready when they died be doing when the Bride is taken up for the wedding feast? Will they 'sleep' until the second rapture or what?

I appreciate your time in answering all the questions that people send in, and please forgive me if you have already discussed these points in your books, but I can't find where to get your books where I live, and if I have to order them from America, then by the time they arrive will not give me a lot of time until the rapture, and I intend to be going at that time. Bless you heaps for your work. With you in His love,

My reply

> Earthly Kingdom will be comprised of the Old Testament saints as well as the
> Christians who don't have their lamps topped up with oil, with David as their king.

I think the OT saints will be put back on Earth with David as king, or prince, under Christ the King of kings, who will return to Heaven after the millennial government is set up. The Jews were promised the Earth. The Christians are promised Heaven. How much oil they have just seems to make the difference in which Rapture they go to Heaven in, also whether they are the Bride of Christ or just a member of the Body of Christ. The wise virgins go with the Bridegroom when he comes the first time. The rest will go in the second Rapture.

> The Heavenly Kingdom will be comprised of the spiritually prepared Christians
> as well as a select few of the old testament saints, such as Abraham etc.

All believers and some OT saints will end up in Heaven.

> All Christians who have died and will die prior to the first rapture. Will
> they also be separated into two groups, that of the Bride of Christ, and the
> Body of Christ?

It looks that way to me. I can't see how one could lose the reward they had earned or gain a reward they had not earned just because they died.

> what will be those who were not ready when they died be doing when the Bride is
> taken up for the wedding feast? Will they 'sleep' until the second rapture

I don't think so. At the time of the second Rapture, what happens in Heaven? Mt. 24:31 says, they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. That does not sound like sleeping.

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