Pro and Con 70, Uploaded 3-8-98
Incoming Email Your pages is more important than practically any other document I know of (other than the Bible on line).
My reply Wow! what a wonderful thing that is to read. Thanks.
Incoming Email Had an opportunity to hear a small amount of your radio broadcast last evening. Couldn't get a lot of it as the station kept fading in and out, but heard the name of your book and your name. Did some surfing and found your web site. I don't know how to explain my life lately but after reading some of your web site I believe that you are correct and that the intensity and persistence with which Christ is effecting my life, tells me to get at it. I thank you so much for your work. I can't read it fast enough.
My reply Bless you. Truly, now is the time to "get at it."
Incoming Email I heard you on the talk show last night. Though my reception here in Ky. was fair with a lot of crackling and interference, I did hear some of the report. It was very interesting. Thanks! I'm sure your audience too, learned a lot.
My reply I am glad you liked it.
Incoming Email I only caught a portion of your radio interview on 2-22, but I ordered the full tape of your last radio interview. I just got it today and it's terrific! Thanks!
My reply Thank you. You are one up on me. I don't even have that tape. At the time, I thought a lot got covered in one hour though.
Incoming Email Thanks a million for your detailed reply to my first questions . Your guidance was very much appreciated in setting me straight on a few things. I EM'd some other questions to you yesterday before I received your response. But I had to run for my train out of the office. Yep, who can resist the Ice Skating? At severe risk of imposing too heavily on your airtime - would you mind me finishing off with yet a few more of the questions I missed?
First, I pray for your recovery and protection - your double pneumonia and rear end "accidents" are a reminder to all that you are seriously exposed in your work. I trust others may feel called to do the same. Its certainly no game that you are involved in.
The fact that you have exposed yourself to the fire of the internet to test your prophecies (as directed by the Lord), speaks for your personal integrity. People who give you a hard time about possible misinterpretations, such as "we shall not know the day or the hour", should recognise that whatever their own legitimate personal view, I'm sure God respects anyone holding a sincere view in good conscience supported by considered biblical reasons with an open mind to the Truth, such as that you have witnessed here. The various denominations have never been able to agree on things as sacred as Baptismal doctrine and practices, so why are so many of the same so self righteous about end-time? Whoever thinks that they have a perfect understanding of God's Word and Will - let them cast the first stone!
OK then, if all these questions aren't making you too sleepless.
1. I appreciate your reasoning on why you feel the first Rapture will be public. However, only 3 of the Disciples were allowed to see the Transfiguration (why?), and then they were told to keep it secret until after the Resurrection. The Bible doesn't say that secular people saw the Ascension either? Does it need sight from the Holy Spirit to see the Rapture happen? Or do the rest of the people just find the Christians vanished?
2. There is some emphasis in the double rapture scenario on there being two DOORS (plural) ..... However, "Both the outer sanctuary and the Most Holy Place have DOUBLE DOORS". Eze 41:23. (NIV). The inner sanctum has ONE opening with 2 doors. You pass through one set of double doors to get to the other set. Comment?
3. Although the overall intent of the 10 virgins parable (Mt 25) is clear, it has a number of intriguing elements to it that have always left me very curious. Here are some of dumb questions I usually feel too silly to ask.
Why 10? Why 5 of each wise + foolish? - Why was the spare oil in flasks (Amplified) or jars (NIV) and not in a bigger lamp? Can our fleshly nature only take so much of the Holy Spirit in one time, or what? - Why did the foolish virgins somehow think they could just go and BUY more oil, like any other commodity? The Holy Spirit is a gift of Grace that comes for free - we just need to be clean vessels and keep our ego's out of the way to let God to grow his Spirit in us. Is that another reason they were foolish? - The call came at **midnight** to go meet the Bridegroom. But the wise virgins figured that they may need enough oil to light their way last until the morning (Rapture?) before they married. Could it mean that we should be prepared to trust Him through the "night" of the Tribulation in faith, knowing that he will keep His promise to look after those who were truly watching? Just as God asked the Jews in Egypt to trust Him the night of Exodus - also starting at **midnight**.
My reply > Does it need sight from the Holy Spirit to see the Rapture happen? Or do the
> rest of the people just find the Christians vanished?
Since Psa 40:1-3 says that many will see it, fear and trust in the Lord, I take it that nonbelievers will be able to see the Rapture take place. Believers already trust in the Lord.
>The inner sanctum has ONE opening with 2 doors. You pass through one set of
> double doors to get to the other set. Comment?
The inner Holy of Holies is the part that represents Heaven.
>Why 10? Why 5 of each wise + foolish?
I don't know if this means half will go as the Bride or not. Joseph took up 1/5th of the grain in the seven good years. Maybe the number 5 means division. Five in one house were divided (Lu. 12:52,53).
> Why was the spare oil in flasks (Amplified) or jars (NIV) and not in a bigger lamp?
It seems to me that our bodies are referred to as vessels. The lesson is that we are to have the HS in our vessels, these bodies of clay. We are told to be filled.
> Why did the foolish virgins somehow think they could just go and BUY more oil
Jesus, the Almighty himself, taught the people in parables, using ordinary things that they could easily understand. He also told the Laodiceans, "I counsel thee to BUY of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich: and white raiment" (Rev. 3:18). I think it means to acquire, in words easy to understand.
It does not mean we can buy anything of the Lord with literal money. Acts 8:20 says, "Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money." Isa. 55:1 says, "HO, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price."
> the wise virgins figured that they may need enough oil to light their way last
> until the morning (Rapture?) before they married. Could it mean that we
> should be prepared to trust Him through the "night" of the Tribulation
I don't think the wise virgins will go through the Tribulation at all.
His reply and my answers
> You've already given me (and countless others) the eternal gift of opening up
> the vast depths of His Word - so what you've already given is precious. Your email
> commentaries are not wasted, as they do inspire us to dive into the mainline web
> pages, and dig out the Word for ourselves.
> I know that you understand that the depths of His revelation
> that you have brought to us takes time to assimilate.. We all have to
> put aside our preconceptions, doctrines and prejudices, and just go back
> to taking it directly from the Word. So I hope you will forgive the
> naive questions we ask and our reservations in working through it.
I learned so much faster after I ended my seven years of reading man's words about the Bible and immersed myself in the Bible itself. My background studies were good, but I found things in the Bible that man had not figured out yet. You can't beat God's Word itself.
> Anyway, you have successfully highlighted enough in the Word
> thus far to convince this initial skeptic that there's better than even
> odds of us meeting in a few months when I can thank you in person, His
> Grace being willing.... I guess I'll recognise you by the typewriter
> keys grafted to your fingers and reciting the bible backwards and inside-out!
> > God took the supreme risk of destroying Himself and our Universe that he holds up.
I ahad said, "I doubt this."
> Gulp..... it comes from thinking..... what would have happened had Jesus not overcome
> and resisted all sin (the possibility was always there of course)? What would have
> happened had he fallen, even once? Since the Almighty Holiness of the Trinity is
> inseparable and immutable, is it conceivable that the consequences might be along the
> lines envisaged above? Or perhaps would it be less presumptuous to say that the full
> consequences are beyond our human ability to fully comprehend?
God is omniscient and omnipotent. He knew Jesus would not sin, and he always has the power to make things work out the way he wants them to. He is in complete control. We tend to forget that at times.
Incoming Email I know you are a Spirit filled good Christian by your longsuffering my questions! Thank you for your swift and eloquent reply. Regarding the timing of Ez 38, again, considering what is occuring in Israel, the False Prophet's ministry, the two witnesses, the 144,000 Jewish evangilists, the Angels ministering the Word to the world, the murder of Christian believers who do not take the mark of the beast and the near constant war....how can God describe the timeframe in Israel as being (Ez 38:8) "and they shall dwell safely all of them." Why is Syria not mentioned in the lineup of nations, it seems God goes into detail regarding the nations involved. I am the last person to seem to argue, there is far too much of that in the body already but I am in need of some help with these questions. If your longsuffering can continue a little longer I am much obliged! Also, short term, what do you think of the current situation regarding Iraq? Will we have a greater war than in 1991? God Bless and thanks again.
My reply > how can God describe the timeframe in Israel as being (Ez 38:8) "and
> they shall dwell safely all of them."
Ezek. 38:10,11 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD, It shall also come to pass, that at the same time shall things come into thy (Gog's) mind, and thou (Gog) shalt think an evil thought: And thou (Gog) shalt say, I (Gog) will go up to the land of unwalled villages; I (Gog) will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling without walls, and having neither bars nor gates, To take a spoil, and to take a prey...upon the people that are gathered out of the nations."
It is not God's thought, but Gog's thought. The believers have fled Judaea in the middle of the Tribulation. The unbelievers that are left are not at the moment under attack. The 7-year peace treaty is still in effect.
> Why is Syria not mentioned in the lineup of nations
Not all nations are mentioned, the list would be long. Verse 6 says, "and many people with thee." Ezek. 39:4 says, "Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee."
Since the invading army is coming in from the north, and "Damascus is taken away from being a city, and it shall be a ruinous heap" (Isa. 17:1), it seems that Syria will be involved in the attack. All nations may be involved in the attack. It may be the army under the thumb of the False Prophet. At that time, he will be head of the World Church and the World Government.
> the current situation regarding Iraq? Will we have a greater war than in 1991?
I don't know. Mt. 24:6 says, "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these thing must come to pass."
Incoming Email greetings in Jesus! i read a very complimentary posting from David Hill on Israel and the Church tonite on the five doves site about you. it was nice to see someone speak so well of you, praise the Lord!
you have mentioned seeing your name in the Bible, "Agee". it appears once in the Old Testament. 2 Samuel 23:11, i believe.
it is in the Hebrew roster (in Strong's Concordance).
it is number 89.
hebrew R to L = 98
Hope you are blessed. it's no accident.
My reply Thanks do much. I read the piece David wrote last thing before going to bed last night. It was so nice, I couldn't even go to sleep for awhile.
That is neat about Agee too. I had not realized that.
Here is what I found: "Israel & the Church, by David Hill
David Hill (23 Feb)
"Israel and The Church"
"I read your letter on the Rapture and Irag etc. I know this is beating a 'dead horse' so to speack, but the Rabbi's are not seeing the Rapture of the Church, they are seeing the Awakening of Israel, in accordance with Ez chapters 36-37. This is a 100 year process that started with Theodore Herzl in aug of 1897. His first trip, (as the man that fulfilled the first half of that process) to Israel was in the summer of 1898, again 100 years. Abraham was 100 years old when Issac was born, and the 'birth' of the 144,000 is a result of the Marriage (Rapture of O.T. and N.T. Saints-Heb 11:40), this is why the start of the Trib, is called the Begining of Birth Pains. The world is feeling the birth pains of the 144,000. We have to differentiate between Israel and the Church (Adam and Eve). The Rapture of the Church will no doubt be in 1998, as the Spirit seems to be making clear to all that love His appearing.
"But God 'does' everything decently and "In Order" or in it's "Proper Order." Passover is the Lord's Holiday (Order) and Pentecost is the Church's Holiday (Order). They are the firstfruits of the Wheat Harvest (Two Loaves of Bread), as Jesus was the Firstfruits of the Barley Harvest (ONE Barley Sheaf), and as the 144,000 are the Firstfruits of the Final Harvest (Fruit Harvest, specifically the Figs). The Fig Tree was regrafted in 1948, and the 144,000 are the 'green figs' that appear in the Springtime, at the time of Pentecost. This is also the time when they were originally set apart and dedicated to the Lord. There is a proper order to the Ressurections, and this order is established in the Harvest Feasts. There are three Harvest's with their respective Firstfruits, and there are three groups of Firstfruits named in the New Testament. Jesus, The Church and The 144,000. I reiterate that what the Rabbis' (Israel) are seeing, is not specifically the Rapture (Though this is tied together) they are seeing the Awakening of Israel.
"Let me expound alittle more. Just as God formed Adam first, so God called Israel first. Just as God put Adam to sleep so that He could form Eve, so God put Israel to sleep so that He could form the Church. Just as God drew Eve from the side of Adam, so God drew the Church from the side of Israel. And just as God presented Eve to Adam, AFTER HE AWOKE, so God will present the Church to Israel (Rature-Marriage) AFTER THEY AWAKE. The Rabbis are EXPERIANCING the Awakening (spelled out in Ez) which occurs just prior to the Marriage (Rapture). If you remember in the Vison of the Dry Bones, the Bones came together and were covered with Muscles, and then Organs were added, and then finally the Skin. However, they were still 'dead'. This is the case for Israel, they are complete, but still 'dead' (asleep). We are on the Verge of the Awakening of Israel, which I believe will coincide with the Second Exodus (out of the North Courtry) which Steve Lightle has been preaching for over ten years.
"I am convinced Jim, that the Rapture will occur on Pentecost, in our proper order. Also, I will say, that with all the datesetting that has occured in the Church's Past, one woman got the year right, back in 1968. She published her word in 1987, and maintained her position even through the hub bub of '88 Reasons for the Rapture in 1988'. If the Lord correctly showed her the date for the Rapture in 1967, the chances are He also showed her the Right date. She believe's in her heart, that the Rapture of the Church will occur on Pentecost, 1998. She has believed this for thirty years. This is longer than any one. It is also my belief as well. I am of the personal opinion, if there is any thing to the "Secrets of Wisdom,being double..." that MARY(lyn) AGEE, is the second fulfillment of MARY MAGDALENE, who was the first person to see the Ressurected Savior. Mary Agee, if she is proved to be correct, deserves to see the Lord first because she has been faithful to this date longer than anyone. And from my own personal experience, this requires a tremdous amount of Patience. And I have only been waiting/watching for five years. Mary Agee is the second Mary Magdelene, and she deserves to be. The Lord must really Love her, cause she has proven her Devotion to Him. It has been an Honor to comune with her."
Incoming Email I found your website kind of by accident. I am enjoying reading it just about every day. I especially enjoy the pros and cons. I have two questions that don't really pertain to the return of Jesus. First.....do you see any significance in the fact that the end of 1997 (for the most part) many famous people were killed or died? Everyone I talk to thinks I am nuts, but I think that God is trying to tell the world that it doesn't matter how much money or how much fame you have, you have to be prepared for eternity. Michael Kennedy, Princess Diana, Chris Farley, Sonny Bono, Mother Teresa....that was a lot of famous people to die in only a few months. Second.....the crazy weather we have been having in just the past few months....people are blaming it on El Nino, but I think it is more than that. I think that God is trying to wake people up so that more will turn to Him before it is too late. Just wanted to throw those ideas at you. About the return of Jesus on Pentecost, everything you have said so far has, for the most part, made sense to me. I live in Georgia, so at 4:50 pm I am going to head upstairs, get on my knees and make sure that I don't have any unconfessed sins and ask for a renewed filling of the Holy Spirit (I am doing these things now, just in case He comes before then). Then at 4:55 pm, my two children and I are going to go outside and wait and praise and pray. Between my feet I will have a note wrapped around a rock for my neighbors who don't know Jesus, but who may find the note and accept Him when they see me gone. But, if Jesus does not come, that is ok too, I will just keep watching and praying. Bless you Marilyn.
My reply Glad you like my Web site. It is full, so I have to remove things to put on more pro and cons, but like you, others want me to continue to post interesting email, so, Lord willing, I will do that.
I can't think that famous people dying are any kind of sign, and since El Nino comes every few years, I am not convinced that it is a sign.
However, it is strange that it is named El Nino for the Christ child. It brings us flooding here in California, and water is a symbol of the Holy Spirit. The former and latter rains are when Christ is to come (Hosea 6:1-3). It is possible that it has a connection. I'm just not sure it does.
I don't know if we know the exact hour of the Rapture. If it is midnight Jerusalem time, do we figure our time zone, or is it all at once all around the globe, or does it happen on Sivan 6 in each time zone? Jesus said to occupy till I come. Two are working in the field, one taken, the other left, and two in bed, one taken , the other left, sounds like it may be at one instant everywhere because half of the globe is in darkness and the other half is light.
Yet, Song of Solomon 2:16,17 says, My beloved is mine, and I am his: he feedeth among the lilies. Until the day break, and the shadows flee away." This could indicate that the Rapture of the Bride of Christ will take from midnight to dawn. How can we be sure?
Incoming Email ...I am starting to see your way of thinking as far as the tribulation coming some time later after the rapture. My reasoning for this: A confirmation of a 7 year peace treaty actually starts the tribulation, correct? If that is the case, I don't see how anyone could step in and get the attention of anyone in the world on the same day as a catastrophic event like the rapture. There will be too much pandemonium and chaos for someone to restore peace that soon. It could take weeks, or months, or as you have figured, a couple of years.
My reply I agree that it seems impossible for a peace treaty to be signed that day. Good for you. I had not thought of that. I think there are 3 years from the Rapture to the beginning of the Tribulation. They are counted as four years in the Parable of the Barren Fig Tree in Luke 13:6-9 because the Jews use inclusive reckoning, where the first year is counted.
Incoming Email I have just recently found your web site and am slowly making my way through the pros and cons. All the dating and prophecy about the Rapture are logical to me and I have no trouble accepting them. Where I run into problems is with the literal location of heaven. I haven't read your book, just read from your website. I assume that you are locating this on Venus. I'm having trouble reconciling this with space probe discoveries about Venus - intense pressure at the surface, very high temperatures and high levels of sulfuric acid in the atmosphere. Wouldn't Venus need some major reconstruction before humans could inhabit it?
My reply It is not on Venus. Heaven is the third heaven. Venus is next to the Earth. Maybe what is confusing you is that it is a morning star. Any planet seen in the morning sky is a morning star. Heaven is a morning star five months out of the year and an evening star five months out of the year. We cannot see it as it swings around the sun.
The third heaven is Paradise. In II Cor. 12:2-4, Paul said, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into PARADISE, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."
Incoming Email The feast of Pentecost has already been fullfilled with the holy spirit. The feast of trumpets has not. This feast does not go with the trumpet judgements as many think.(it is our inheritance)
My reply According to the Jewish prayer for the New Year, called the Un'saneh Tokef, the Feast of Trumpets is the day of God's judgment of the world.
The seven trumpet judgments will hit on a feast day. Mal. 2:1-3 says, "O ye priests...if ye will not hear, and...give glory unto my name, saith the LORD of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you...your solemn feasts; and one (the Feast of Trumpets) shall take you away with it."
Destruction, i.e., the seven trumpet judgments, falls on a feast day.
Hos. 9:5-7 says, "What will ye do in the solemn day, and in the day of the feast of the LORD (the Feast of Trumpets)? For, lo, they are gone because of destruction...The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the prophet (the False Prophet) is a fool, the spiritual man (the Beast) is mad."
Joel 1:15; 2:1,2,15,17,18,20 says, "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come....BLOW ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it....Blow the TRUMPET in Zion (the Feast of Trumpets), sanctify a fast (the Day of Atonement is the only feast that is a fast day), call a solemn assembly (the Feast of Tabernacles)....Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them....Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people....I will remove far off from you the northern army, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate."
This ties in with the seven trumpet judgments of Rev. 8f. The "sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood, And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth" (Rev. 6:12,13) just prior to the seven trumpets sounding.
The army under Gog has just attacked Israel. The seven trumpet judgments (of the Feast of Trumpets on the first day of the seventh month of the Jewish Sacred Year) stop him. Only 1/6th of his forces will be left (Ezek. 39:2).
The millennial Day of the Lord begins on the Feast of Trumpets, the very day Israel is attacked and blows the alarm on the trumpets.
Hosea 8:1 says, "SET the TRUMPET to thy mouth. He (the False Prophet) shall come as an eagle against the house of the LORD, because they have transgressed my covenant, and trespassed against my law."
"What will ye do in the solemn day, and in the day of the feast of the LORD? For, lo, they are gone because of destruction" (Hosea 9:5,6).
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