Pro and Con 701

Posted 3-2-01

Incoming email

Marilyn, take a look at this version of an on line study help:
the same site, another page to enter stuff:§ion=2&version=str&showtools=1

My reply

Thank you so much. I put both on my Favorites list. I can hardly wait to do some research with their tools. That is so much quicker than going to the Library too. Agape

Incoming email


There has been much confusion about when the barley and especially the WHEAT was harvested in ancient Israel. We need to remember that the entire nation was and is only about the size of Rhode Island. Therefore it is not accurate to compare the timing of the U.S. wheat harvest of the plains to the time of the wheat being harvested in the Old Testament times in Israel. It also may not be accurate to compare it to todays nation of Israel either--because of the additon of other crops to be harvested and other factors.

We need to remember that in the Old Testament times that the nation was entirely an agricultural one and that all the efforts of the people were to bring in the crops at the appropriate times.

The reason I am interested in this is because of the following scriptures in the book of Ruth: 2:21 And Ruth the Moabitess said, He said unto me also, Thou shalt keep fast by my young men, until they have ended all my harvest. 2:23 So she kept fast by the maidens of Boaz to glean unto the end of barley harvest and of wheat harvest; and dwelt with her mother in law.

It is clear that Ruth was a Gentile that ended up marrying Boaz. Ruth is read by the Jews on the Feast of PENTECOST. In chapter 3 there is the scene of the threshing floor and comments from Naomi about the need for Ruth to have REST ( a picture of the Rapture ?).

Many have been mistaken about the START AND END of the Wheat Harvest in ancient Israel.


Some have said that Pentecost was the Start of the Wheat Harvest. I will show that is not correct. Since Ruth is a type of the Church (being a Gentile) then IF the night she approached Boaz at the threshingfloor was at Pentecost , then this is a VERY STRONG INDICATION THAT THE RAPTURE WILL BE ON PENTECOST. For this to be true , the ENDING of the Wheat Harvest would have to be at the time of the Feast of Pentecost---since the context of the above verses indicate that Ruth continued in the fields UNTIL THE END OF THE BARLEY AND WHEAT HARVESTS. Since that comes just before chapter 3, in context, it would mean that the END of the Wheat Harvest is at the time of Pentecost and that the celebration of the Harvest Feast of Pentecost was indeed to celebrate the conclusion of the grain harvest of both barley and wheat. That is, the cutting of the barley and wheat would be completed, and the threshing would then start. Indeed , this is just what Boaz was doing in chapter 3, threshing the Barley---which would have already been cut.

First let's look at some verses which are relevant to this study. In the context of the plagues on Egypt there was, toward the end of these palgues, the palgue of hail. At this time, which was probably a few days before the Passvoer in Exodus 12, there was this comment: Exodus: 9:31 And the flax and the barley was smitten: for the barley was in the ear, and the flax was bolled. 9:32 But the wheat and the rie were not smitten: for they were not grown up.

Some have "jumped on" this verse to 'show' that the season of the Passover was not the proper time when the Wheat was to be Harvested. However, actually these verses show just the opposite. Why? Because the Barley was always harvested First, JUST BEFORE THE WHEAT WAS HARVESTED. The Grain harvest (of the Barley 1st and then immediately afterwards the wheat) started on one to five days after Passover. Since these verses were written in the context of the plague of hail, before the Passover, it is only showing that the wheat was not JUST YET ripe for harvest. In fact, just the mention of the fact that the wheat was not smitten, is indication that it was fairly CLOSE to when the wheat was ripe enough to ALMOST HAVE BEEN smitten! That should be clear. Notice it did not say the "grapes were not 'grown up"--since it was OBVIOUS that the grapes did not ripen until MUCH LATER. The mention of the wheat not being grown up is indication that it was CLOSE ENOUGH that it was almost ripe or "grown up."

Here is a comment from Smith's Bible Dictionary re the timing of the barley and wheat harvests:
Barley is one of the most important of the cereal grains, and the most hardy of them all. It was grown by the Hebrews, (Leviticus 27:16; 8:8; Ruth 2:17) etc., who used it for baking into bread chiefly among the poor, (Judges 7:13; 2 Kings 4:42; John 6:9,13) and as fodder for horses. (1 Kings 4:28) The barley harvest, (Ruth 1:22; 2:23; 2 Samuel 21:9;10) takes place in Palestine in March and April, and in the hilly district as late as May. It always PRECEDES the wheat harvest, in some places by a WEEK, in others by fully three weeks. In Egypt the barley is about a month earlier than the wheat; whence its total destruction by the hail storm. (Exodus 9:31)

Notice that the Barley harvest "precedes" the wheat harvest by only ONE TO PERHAPS THREE WEEKS. This is why the verses in Exodus ch. 9 were written as they were. The palgue of hail took out the Barley and almost took out the Wheat , but the wheat was not just yet ripe, only being a few weeks later.

Yet another verse that some "jump on" to "prove" that Pentecost is the beginning and not the end of the wheat harvest is Exodus 34:22 : "you shall observe the feast of weeks, of the firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end."

Notice that this verse DOES NOT say "the 'beginning' of the wheat harvest." It is simply a statement that the Feast of Weeks (Pentecost) was to be observed with the Firstfruits of the Wheat Harvest that had just been completed !! It was celebrated WITH the firstfruits of the wheat that had just been harvested, that is with new flour. Notice Easton's Bible Dictionary's comment on this verse:

"The purpose of this feast (Pentecost) was to commemorate the COMPLETION of the grain harvest. Its distinguishing feature was the offering of "two leavened loaves" made from the NEW GRAIN of the COMPLETED harvest, which, with two lambs, were waved before the Lord as a thank offering."

This verse had caused many to conclude that Pentecost was the beginning of the wheat harvest . In actual fact, it proves that the wheat harvest had JUST BEEN COMPLETED and the firstfruits of the completed harvest were offered in the two loaves. Remember that the wheat had to be cut before it could be made into flour for the 2 loaves of bread.

Finally, here are some additional authoritative comments from several Bible Dictionaries all saying the same thing, that Pentecost was a Harvest Festival that celebrated the COMPLETION OF THE WHEAT HARVEST:

Here is the JFB commentary on Ruth 2:21 "And Ruth said, He said to me also,You shall keep fast by my young men, UNTIL THEY HAVE ENDED ALL MY HARVEST." 21. all my harvest--both barley and wheat harvests. The latter (the WHEAT) was at the end of May or the beginning of June.

Note that Pentecost is celebrated at the end of May or the beginning of June, just as the wheat harvest is also completed.

Here is what Easton's BD has to say on the subject of the HARVEST: the season for gathering grain . At the start of the harvest a handful of ripe ears of grain was offered as a first-fruit before the Lord, and immediately after this the harvest commenced (Leviticus 23:9-14; 2Sam 21:9,10; Ruth 2:23). It BEGAN with the feast of Passover and ENDED with Pentecost, thus lasting for seven weeks (Exodus 23:16). The harvest was a season of joy (Psalms 126:1-6; Isaiah 9:3). This word is used figuratively Matthew 9:37; 13:30; Luke 10:2; John 4:35....

Here is Easton's commentary on the subject of 'Pentecost': The purpose of this feast was to commemorate the COMPLETION of the grain harvest. Its distinguishing feature was the offering of "two leavened loaves" made from the new corn of the completed harvest, which, with two lambs, were waved before the Lord as a thank offering.

And finally, here is a quote from the Revell Bible Dictionary (page 768) on the subject of Pentecost: "The Feast of Weeks marked the END of the grain harvest."

This particular Bible Dictionary gives several excellent charts that show the time of the year that crops were harvested. Barley was harvested in the 2nd half of March and completed by the end of April. Wheat was harvested starting around the Start of May and ending by the start of June. The completion of the wheat harvest coincides with the date of Pentecost , which is celebrated in late May or early June.

We need to remember that in ancient Israel the whole effort of the people was to get the harvest in as soon as possible. There was always the "next" crop to work on. After the completion of the wheat harvest the efforts then were directed to the first figs and vine tending in the months of Late June and all of July.

I went through all of this study primarily to "locate " the 3rd chapter of the book of Ruth that comes after the barley and wheat harvest. It appears to be a Pentecost setting when Ruth goes to meet Boaz at the threshingfloor in chapter 3. That then is a perfect picture of the "REST" of the gentile bride at Pentecost.

My reply

Thanks for looking this up in several references. It looks like the preponderance of the evidence is for Pentecost to be the end of wheat harvest. That fits except for Mt. 13:30, but the wheat and tares there can be merely illustrative of what the Lord will do on the first day of his kingdom. Mt. 13:42-43 says, "The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father." This parallels Rev. 14:18,19: "Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe (it is Tishri 1, the vintage). And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God."

I looked again in Unger's Bible Dictionary. On page 1146, it lists wheat harvest as April, May and June. On pp. 163/4, it lists for Abib (Nisan), Barley harvest begins and wheat coming into ear. For Zif (Iyar), it lists Barley harvest, general, and wheat ripening on the uplands. For Sivan, it lists "wheat harvest begins on uplands...grapes begin to ripen." For Tammuz, it lists "Wheat harvest on highest districts."

I went to the Bible Browser site to look up verses you mentioned in several versions. These looked interesting:
Ruth 2:21 (Young's Literal Translation): "And Ruth the Moabitess saith, 'Also he surely said unto me, Near the young people whom I have thou dost cleave till they have completed the whole of the harvest."
Ruth 2:23 (Bible in Basic English): "So she kept near the servant-girls of Boaz to take up the grain till the cutting of the early grain AND the cutting of the late grain were ended; and she went on living with her mother-in-law."
Ex. 9:31 (BBE): "And the flax and the barley were damaged, for the barley was almost ready to be cut and the flax was in flower."
Ex. 9:32 (Darby): "But the wheat and the spelt (rye) were not smitten; for they were not come out into ear."

Ex. 23:16-21 (KJV) says, "the feast of harvest (Pentecost), the firstfruits of thy labours, which thou hast sown in the field...The first (saints of the Pre-Trib Rapture) of the firstfruits (later includes the 144,000 of the Pre-Wrath Rapture) of thy land thou shalt bring into the house of the LORD thy God....I send an Angel (Angel of the Lord, i.e., the pre-incarnate Christ) before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into THE PLACE WHICH I HAVE PREPARED....obey his voice" (when he says, "Come up hither," Rev. 4:1). The PLACE is Heaven. John 14:2-4 says, " In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare A PLACE for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know" (they knew of Saturn).

See if you think the 50 days should be counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning. Consider first the days of unleavened bread. Lev. 23:6-8 says, "on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day (Nisan 15) ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein." The 15th is the "first day." Therefore, the seven days are: (1) 15, (2) 16, (3) 17, (4) 18, (5) 19, (6) 20, and (7) 21, counted by inclusive reckoning where the 1st day is counted as #1. Ex. 12:18,19 agrees. It says, "In the first month, on the fourteenth day (Passover) of the month at even (6 PM, when Nisan 15 begins), ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even" (till 6 PM, when Nisan 22 begins). These seven days of unleavened bread are always the same, from the beginning of Nisan 15 to the end of Nisan 21.

When scripture says "at even," we have to figure out which even is meant. It is not always the same. The fourteenth starts at 6 PM (at even) on Nisan 13. The fourteenth ends at 6 PM (at even) on Nisan 14.

The Day of Atonement is similar. Lev. 23:32 says, "It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath." This is from Tishri 9 at 6 PM to Tishri 10 at 6 PM.

Since the Feast of Unleavened Bread is from 6 PM on Nisan 14 to 6 PM on Nisan 15, Passover has to be the preceding day, from Nisan 13 at 6 PM to Nisan 14 at 6 PM. The Lord passed over the Israelites 6 hours after Passover began--at midnight on the 14th. The next midnight was that of Nisan 15, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, not the Passover.

Ex. 12:5-13 says, "Your lamb...keep it up until the FOURTEENTH day...kill it in the evening (as Nisan 14 began at 6 PM on Nisan 13) the flesh in THAT NIGHT...let nothing of it remain until the it; with your loins girded, your shoes on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and he shall eat it in haste: it is the LORD'S PASSOVER. For I will pass through the land of Egypt THIS NIGHT, and will smite all the firstborn...when I see the blood, I will pass over you."

On Nisan 13 in 30 AD, because of the large number to be sacrificed, they killed the lambs at the temple between the evenings, between 3 and 5 PM, so they could be roasted and ready to be eaten after 6 PM. Jesus died around 3 PM that day as they were killing the passover lambs. The first day he was in the grave was Passover, the second was the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The third was the Feast of Firstfruits. Since the Feast of Unleavened Bread is from 6 PM on Nisan 14 to 6 PM on Nisan 15, the Feast of Firstfruits is from 6 PM on Nisan 15 to 6 PM on Nisan 16. The men on the road to Emmaus said, "we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done" (Luke 24:21). From 6 PM Thursday to 6 PM Friday is the 1st day. From 6 PM Friday to 6 PM Saturday is the 2nd day. From 6 PM Saturday to 6 PM Sunday is the 3rd day "since" Thursday, when Jesus was crucified on Nisan 13.

Since the Feast of Firstfruits began at 6 PM on the 15th, and because the seven days of unleavened bread are counted inclusively, it now seems more likely that the 50 days to Pentecost are counted inclusively and end with Sivan 6 (May 28 in 2001). This makes sense since the 2300 days (Dan. 8:13,14) from next Pentecost to the Feast of Trumpets in 2007 must be counted inclusively to fit.

It now seems that the "corn" (grain standing on its stalks) harvest started with barley on Firstfruits and ended with wheat on Pentecost. Christ was the Firstfruit, The Seed, the Head of the Body of Christ. The saints that came out of their graves, the rest of the sheaf, were taken to Heaven on that Resurrection Day. John 20:17 says, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Later in the day, after he returned to Earth, he could be touched. Then counting that as day #1, we come to the 50th day on Sivan 6, Pentecost/Feast of Weeks (May 28 in 2001). The part of the Body of Christ called the Bride of Christ should be complete on that day. The rest of the Body of Christ should follow on the Feast of Trumpets (in 2007), making fulfillments on Firstfruits, Pentecost, and then Trumpets.

The 50 days seem to be the final countdown to the Rapture, and 50 does suggest the Jubilee. We will certainly be jubilant when the Rapture finally does take place. Whether it is May 28 or June 3, we will rejoice just the same. It is interesting that debts were forgiven and property returned to the owner on Jubilee. I can see that happening at the Rapture too. Agape

Incoming e-mail

To: CAPS. Cc to: Marilyn. Re: Rev 14 and Harvests
Your writing on wheat and barley is excellent. Everything you wrote I agree with regarding the grain harvests.

I have been looking at Revelation 14 now for almost a year, and I still can not dismiss two scriptures Rev 14:4 and Rev 14:14-20. I accept, and I know Marilyn does as well, that the 144,000 are part of the Redeemed Bride, which will include the Church which has been Redeemed and seen in Heaven in Rev 5:9. They are clearly referred to as Firstfruits. In Rev 14:14-20, we have the "Harvest Judgement" WHICH IS PERFORMED BY ANGELS. The Harvest Judgement clearly fits the Day of the Lord, which I accept that Marilyn has correctly discerned as being on September 12/13 of 2007. We have mention of clusters of the vine of the earth, with grapes that are fully ripe. This is a terrifying harvest in Rev 14:19, for it is thrown into the great winepress of the wrath of God. But before this is the other Harvest of Rev 14:15-16. Mentioned AFTER the Firstfruits redemption of the 144,000, and BEFORE the wine press. This Harvest fits Wheat no matter how you look at it. The wheat harvest must be tribulation saints. It is true that Jesus Christ was the Firstfruits, but we ALSO see this description for the 144,000, which are ALSO in the Redeemed Bride. Wheat is gathered over a period of time, which you correctly point out. But the Barley is a Firstfruits Harvest.

Look, there is no reason for any of us to be concerned about whether or not we can convince one another of our proposed date of Redemption. We are all watching, and this is marvellous. My point is that it can not be stated dogmatically that Wheat is associated only with Pentecost. Both agriculturally and scripturally.

It matters not whether anyone accepts that I have been given a gift of prophecy. The point is that EVERY single prophecy that I have had has come to pass 100%, on time, EXCEPT for what has not been fulfilled yet. I know what I was told on February 13th of 2001, Feasts (plural), and persecution of the Body of Christ (Church) for ten days. I was not told that the Rapture would be after the ten days, that is my supposition. I am suggesting that it would make sense, based on Revelation 2:10. There is one prophecy that I have been given that will be irrefutable. Only my wife and one very reliable Christian witness know what I was told. I will not share it with anyone else until it comes to pass. Be so kind as to allow me to leave this comment at that.

There is no crown that I can find mentioned for "getting the date of Redemption right". The issue that I want to emphatically stress among all three of us is that we know with much assurance that it will be this year. Let us rejoice in this, and enjoy our discussions! God Bless

My reply

> > In Rev 14:14-20, we have the "Harvest Judgement" WHICH IS PERFORMED BY ANGELS

The first reaping here seems to be the Pre-Wrath Rapture of all remaining believers, and the second reaping is the unbelievers who receive the wrath of God. I think that is what you mean too for you said, "But before this is the other Harvest of Rev 14:15-16."

> > The wheat harvest must be tribulation saints.

Micah 7:1 says, "Woe is me! for I am as (symbolic language) when they have gathered the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage: there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the FIRSTRIPE FRUIT" (i.e., at the 1st Rapture in the spring). The vintage is in Elul and Tishri. Here Micah is playing the part of a Tribulation saint. The firstripe fruit probably was at the 1st Rapture on Pentecost. The grapegleanings of the vintage seems to be the 2nd Rapture on Trumpets, Tishri 1 (probably Sept. 13, 2007).

> > My point is that it can not be stated dogmatically that Wheat is associated only with Pentecost.

He convinced me. He has good references to back him up. Read the enclosed e-mail I just sent him and see what you think. Agape

Incoming email

> > > Pentecost this year is NOT on Sunday, so I have to discard it, according to YOUR correct reasoning.

> > However, since that, I realized that "the Lord's day" could be "one of the days of the Son of man" (Luke 17:22), which represents the Rapture. Verse 23 says, "as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days (plural) of the Son of man." The other day of the Son of man is as the days of Lot (Luke 17:28). It is the Pre-Wrath Rapture

Marilyn, Just reading from your pro and con and I thought Pentecost started on Sunday eve 6pm and included May 27 and May 28. Having been praying for your health. Glad to hear you are well. I am praying for my family and friends and am hoping that I can talk to them at Easter time that we all can be counted worthy of the first rapture. You don't know much about me but I was a former Catholic and became a Baptist. Long story will have to tell you in heaven agape! My parents and some of my sibling are Catholic. The problem is they Love God but have no idea about the bible. I have in the past tried to witness and tell them about the bible and what is written and it sometimes gets very heated, unfortunately. I have come to the conclusion that we both Love God in our own way. That we know that Christ is our Savior, and that is what is important. However I know more than that. My hope is that I can again in love at Easter show them from God's word about what is going to happen and how they can be sure. I am amazed that we don't know as much about the Jewish faith and customs as we do and the more I learn the more it becomes clear. I keep thinking that the key is there.Well this is rambling and you are doing a great work you have sparked me on and I am a better person for it. I thank You So Very MUCH. You have helped me greatly you have shown me that it is easy to Love people that love you but it is harder to Love people that don't love you but you keep trying. Because that is what God's Love is, unconditional love agape. Maranatha!!!!

PS My question was is not the start of Pentecost on Sunday at 6pm on May 27th? If so then it is still Sunday the first day of the Week and still the LORD'S DAY????

My reply

Thanks for your kind words and your prayers. I'm glad I can be of help. That is only because the Lord helps me to think logically. He helps me think of connecting verses to put segments of this puzzle together. He put the information here a little and there a little so the unbelievers would not understand and would fall backward and be taken. Isa. 28:13 says, "the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." It is our job to gather all the verses that talk about the same things together to get the whole picture. The more we know about the Bible, the more we can know. There is no end to what we can dig out. Only God could pack so much information into such a small book.

> > is not the start of Pentecost on Sunday at 6pm on May 27th? If so then it is still Sunday the first day of the Week and still the LORD'S DAY?

Yes. You are right. I too think Pentecost, Sivan 6, 5761 will start at 6 PM on our May 27 and last until 6 PM on May 28. Sivan 6 is on Monday this year. To us, the 6 hours between 6 PM May 27 and midnight are still Sunday, but not to the Jews. The Bible is a Jewish book. We can see through the glass more clearly when we are oriented to think in terms of the Jewish calendar and a new day starting at 6 PM.

I don't know if "the Lord's day" of Rev. 1:10 is Sunday or just "one of the (2) days of the Son of man" (Luke 17:22), the 1st of the 2 Raptures. It is not referring to the millennial Day of the Lord. That is the day of the 2nd Rapture and the day of destruction. Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come." The 2nd Rapture is on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, so that is also the other one of the days of the Son of man. Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007) is on Thursday.

The 2nd day of the Son of man is the day the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky (Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f). That day is as the days of Lot. The "same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all" (Luke 17:29). So the 2nd Day of the Son of Man is also the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Agape

Incoming email

Re: The Days of the Tribulation Period Are Shortened

Jesus in Matthew 24:22 and in Mark 13:20 mentions the days of tribulation being shortened, and always wondered how until I was reading an article at:
that "Another possible side effect of shooting such a large object (asteroid) past Earth, the scientists say, would be to increase the planet's rotation" which must mean a large asteroid passing by Earth could make the earth rotate or spin faster.

Revelation 8:12 says, " And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so AS the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise." Does this verse show an increase in the speed of the earth's rotation making the days shorter? If the days were 1/3 shorter by 8 hours and the nights were 1/3 shorter by 8 hours, then you would have 16 daylight hours that the sun was shining and 16 hours during which the moon and stars are shining. If you looked at your clock, it would seem like there were missing hours as they wouldn't match the time on your clock. It would take 16 hours for the earth to revolve once when it normally takes 24 hours; therefore, you could still have 1,260 days in the Great Tribulation period that take less time to happen. 1260 days of 16 hrs.each (1260 x 16 = 20,160) would be equal to 840 days of 24 hr. days (840 x 24 = 20,160). However, we don't know exactly what day of the tribulation period this might happen, but we do know that it will happen after the 4th angel sounds the trumpet.

My reply

> > Jesus in Matthew 24:22 and in Mark 13:20 mentions the days of tribulation being shortened, and always wondered how

Mt. 24:20-24 says, "pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days (the 1260-day last half of the Tribulation) should be shortened (to 1040 days), there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days (the 1260 is reduced to 1040) shall be shortened. Then (Mid-Trib) if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets" (the False Prophet comes to full power Mid-Trib).

The Messianic Jew's flight is Mid-Trib, when the 1040-day Great Tribulation will start (2300 - 1620 = 1040, Dan. 8:13,14).

Mark 13:20 says, "except that the Lord had shortened those days (the 1260 of the Great Tribulation), no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days." Prov. 10:27 says, "the YEARS of the wicked shall be shortened." The wicked one is the False Prophet. His years shall be shortened. Rev. 12:12 says, " rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you (Mid-Trib, Rev. 12:9), having great wrath, because he knoweth that HE HATH BUT A SHORT TIME." Rev. 17:10 says, "there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he (the False Prophet) cometh, he must continue a short SPACE."

> > we do know that it will happen after the 4th angel sounds the trumpet

I think all 7 trumpets sound on the 2300th day of the Tribulation, the Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial Day of the Lord (Joel 1:15; 2:1-3). Joel 1:15 says, Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come." The trumpet sounds in 2:1: "Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand." Mal. 2:3 says, "your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it." Agape

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