Pro and Con 702

Posted 3-4-01

ISRAEL GIVES PA ‘SEVERAL DAYS’ TO END VIOLENCE OR RISK MASSIVE ATTACK
3-3-01 - Middle East Newsline - Israel has warned the Palestinian Authority of a massive attack unless it immediately ends the current insurgency campaign against the Jewish state. The warning gives the PA 'several days' to crack down on the ruling Fatah party and Islamic militants. The Israeli message also rejected negotiations with the Palestinians before the halt of six-month-old mini-war, which has spread from the West Bank and Gaza Strip to Israel.

The message was also relayed to the United States, government sources said. They said Israel has sent several leading intelligence officers and defense officials to Washington to present evidence that PA Chairman Yasser Arafat is behind the current bombing campaign against Israel. 'The most important aim is to return security to Israeli citizens and this is what we will do,' Prime Minister-elect Ariel Sharon said.

The sources said Israel's military has drafted plans for a brief but massive attack on the West Bank and Gaza Strip that could end up forcing Arafat to flee into exile. They said some of the military's plans have been approved by the government and that the capture of the PA could take a matter of hours.

Incoming email

Ever think you would be here long enough to write #700? :-)

My reply

Not hardly. I could never have forseen even being on the Internet. Only the Lord knew what he was training me for.

Our son, David Agee, needs our prayers right now. He was in a four-vehicle accident yesterday. As I understand it, a car crashed into his truck from the rear. His truck hit a truck in front of him. That truck hit a car in front of him. That lady had stopped suddenly because she could not clear the intersection. Everyone slammed on their brakes, but could not avoid the crash. He felt so weird, lip pulling up and twitching and a muscle in his side doing something like that on a bigger scale, etc., the paramedics wanted him to go to the hospital, but the police were going to tow his truck somewhere. Then he would have to find transportation to get to his truck, and he had to go get his kids. He chose to go get the kids and go to his chiropractor today instead. He could drive the truck, although the back-up lights flicker off and on when he puts on the brakes. Among other things aching and twitching, bones twisted and popping in his back as he lays down, there is damage to a bone in his neck that shows up on X-ray. He just came home from the chiropractor's. He didn't need this. His back was in such bad shape before this (injured it moving furniture several years ago) that he didn't know if he would be able to walk after the old injury. That one pinches the sciatic nerve. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Two Witnesses Prophesy During 1st or 2nd Half of Tribulation?

In response to my 2/27 post at
http://web.singnet.com.sg/~spirit5/letters/feb2001/donnad227-1.htm, Marilyn Agee in her letter below to me shows me why she believes the two witnesses will prophesy during the 1st half of the tribulation period. However, the 2300 days mentioned in Daniel 8:13, 14 that the Jewish people need to sacrifice in a completed temple in Jerusalem may not fit into the 2,520 days of the tribulation period at all. This Bible passage in Daniel may not apply to the tribulation period. If the Jewish needed 2,300 days to sacrifice, their daily sacrifice would have to end 220 days before the end of the 2,520 tribulation period since 2,520 - 2,300 days = 220 days. If the nation of Israel is fleeing into the wilderness as shown in Rev. 12:14 for 1,260 days, how will they still be sacrificing in the Temple for the full 2,300 days if they are in the wilderness??? I really don't know how God will shorten the days of the Tribulation, but what if an asteroid were to hit Earth speeding up its rotation making the days go by more quickly??? That's a possibility. Also the two witnesses don't necessarily have to be here for the Jewish people to sacrifice in the Temple as their function is just to prophesy in sackcloth and not sacrifice since they know that Jesus was the sacrifice for our sins.

The Bible doesn't tell us the intervals between the trumpets/vial judgements nor does it tell us exactly when the mark of the beast is implemented. It does appear from my chart on my 2/28 post entitled "When Do The Two Witnesses Prophesy and Die In The Tribulation Period" that the two witnesses die during the end of the tribulation period although an exact date is not given in the Bible. However, if the two witnesses need 1260 days to prophesy before they can be killed plus 3 1/2 more days before they are resurrected, and the antichrist needs 1260 days to reign on earth before he is thrown into the lake of fire, the two witnesses could conceivably come to Earth and start prophesying 3 1/2 days before the Antichrist's reign begins. That way the two witnesses would still die 3 1/2 days before the Antichrist's reign ends. After their resurrection, they ascend up to heaven in a cloud; and shortly thereafter, the 7th angel sounds a trumpet. Since this trumpet announces all the kingdoms have become Jesus, this could be Christ's second coming. He may already approaching near Earth in the heavens above when the two witnesses are resurrected and ascend up to heaven in a cloud (Rev. 11:11-11) possibly to meet Jesus in the air, and then a great earthquake takes place (Rev. 11:13). Also Zechariah 13:4 shows the Lord Jesus standing on the Mt. Olives at his second coming and the Mt. of Olives splits in two (sounds like a great earthquake to me). The resurrection of the two witnesses, the reign of the antichrist ending, and Jesus second coming could conceivably happen on the same day.

Why would the two witnesses prophesy for the main part during the latter part of the tribulation period?? Various scriptures in the Bible tell us that God needed the word two witnesses to testify against someone to put them to death. The testimony of just one witness wasn't enough. Examples are found in Deut. 17:6, 19:15, Matt. 18:16, 26:60, 2 Corin. 13:1, 1 Timothy 5:19, & in Hebrews 10:28. Of course, the two witnesses will probably be prophesying against taking the mark of the beast, but the testimony of these two witnesses will place the antichrist and the false prophet in the lake of fire. In Christ, Donna Danna

My reply

> > the 2300 days mentioned in Daniel 8:13, 14 that the Jewish people need to sacrifice in a completed temple in Jerusalem may not fit into the 2,520 days of the tribulation period at all. This Bible passage in Daniel may not apply to the tribulation period.

Here is the way I understand it. The 2300 days do definitely apply to the Tribulation. At least the altar has to be rebuilt. Antiochus Epiphanes was a type when he desecrated the temple, but there is no way that he fulfilled all this prophecy. Daniel 8:9 starts talking about the final "little horn," who is the Satan-possessed False Prophet. Satan "waxed great (Mid-Trib), even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host (1/3rd of the angels, the wicked ones, Rev. 12:4) and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them. Yea, he (the Satan-possessed False Prophet) magnified himself (when he sits in the temple 'shewing himself that he is God," II Thess. 4:4) even to the prince of the host, and by him (the Satan-possessed False Prophet) the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place (the asteroid called Wormwood, Rev. 8:10,11) of his (Satan's) sanctuary was cast down (on the Day of God's Wrath, Rev. 8:8,10). The vision of the 2300 days follows in verses 13 and 14, and in v. 17, Daniel is told, "Understand, O son of man: for AT THE TIME OF THE END SHALL BE THE VISION." Verse 19 says, "I will make thee know what shall be in THE LAST END OF THE INDIGNATION." Verse 23 says, "in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up." This is the False Prophet, "and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (Jesus Christ); but he shall be broken without hand. And THE VISION OF THE EVENING AND THE MORNING (the 2300 days) WHICH WAS TOLD IS TRUE" (Dan. 8:25,26).

Dan. 8:14 says, "Unto two thousand and three hundred days (lit., evenings and mornings); then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

> > If the Jewish needed 2,300 days to sacrifice, their daily sacrifice would have to end 220 days before the end of the 2,520 tribulation period since 2,520 - 2,300 days = 220 days. If the nation of Israel is fleeing into the wilderness as shown in Rev. 12:14 for 1,260 days, how will they still be sacrificing in the Temple for the full 2,300 days if they are in the wilderness

The Jews will sacrifice 1260 days, then the False Prophet will become Satan possessed when Satan is cast out of Heaven and down to Earth Mid-Trib (Rev. 12). Satan immediately causes the False Prophet to go to the temple to "shew himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4). The sacrificing stops then. So the total 1260 days when the Jews sacrifice and the 1040 days when they don't in the shortened Great Tribulation equal 2300 days for the shortened Tribulation. Evidently, the 2 witnesses are teaching in the temple when the False Prophet goes there. They will not bow down to the Satan-possessed False Prophet or his image. Therefore, the False Prophet kills them. Three and a half days later, they are resurrected and raptured. Within one hour, the earthquake at Jerusalem takes place (Rev. 11:12,13). At this time, only 1260 + 3.5 days of the Tribulation have taken place. The earthquake is local, at Jerusalem, not the worldwide earthquake of Rev. 16:18 and Eze. 38:20 that takes place 7 months before the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13). In that one, every wall will fall worldwide (Eze. 38:20). The cities of the nations will fall (Rev. 16:19), not just part of Jerusalem.

> > If the nation of Israel is fleeing into the wilderness as shown in Rev. 12:14 for 1,260 days, how will they still be sacrificing in the Temple for the full 2,300 days if they are in the wilderness

Only the Messianic Jews will flee. Rev. 12:17 says, "which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." They are like the Nazarine Jews, who keep the Law, but add faith in Christ to it.

There will be no sacrificing in the Temple after the False Prophet desecrates the temple. Dan. 8:13,14 is about the time that they do sacrifice (1620 days) plus the time that they do NOT sacrifice (1040 days).

> > I really don't know how God will shorten the days of the Tribulation, but what if an asteroid were to hit Earth speeding up its rotation making the days go by more quickly

The number of days will be shortened for the elect's sake, or no flesh would be saved (Mt. 24:21,22). The asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 will impact Earth on the 2300th day instead of the 2520th day. My guess is that if the asteroids were not caused by the whirlwind (Jer. 23:19) to come in at an oblique angle on that pass, sweeping with the broom of destruction from Babylon to Egypt, they would come straight in later and cause mass extinction. Isa. 14:23 says, "I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts."

The day the asteroids impact Earth is, I think, Jesus' long day, prefigured by Joshua's long day. Jesus from the Hebrew (Yehoshua, Y'shua) is the same as Joshua in Hebrew. On Joshua's long day, more died from the falling rocks than the Israelites killed. That will be true on the Day of God's Wrath too. Jos. 10:11 says, "the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword." This globe will be turned upside down. Isa. 24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof."

> > That way the two witnesses would still die 3 1/2 days before the Antichrist's reign ends. After their resurrection, they ascend up to heaven in a cloud; and shortly thereafter, the 7th angel sounds a trumpet. Since this trumpet announces all the kingdoms have become Jesus, this could be Christ's second coming.

The two witnessed die Mid-Trib on the 1260th day of the Tribulation, the day the False Prophet begins his reign. The 7 trumpets do not sound until the 2300th day. That is 7 months before the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13).

> > The resurrection of the two witnesses, the reign of the antichrist ending, and Jesus second coming could conceivably happen on the same day.

The resurrection and ascension of the 2 witnesses is 1263.5 days into the Tribulation, the 1260 days of Rev. 11:3 plus the 3.5 days of Rev. 11:11. The False Prophet is deposed on the 2300th day (Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, Joel 2:1-3). The Second Advent is 7 Jewish months after that (Eze. 39:12,13), on Nisan 1 (Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3). That year must be a Jewish Leap Year for there to be 7 months between Tishri 1 (first day of the Jewish Civil Year) and Nisan 1 (first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year). 5768 (our 2007/8) is a leap year.

> > Why would the two witnesses prophesy for the main part during the latter part of the tribulation period

They don't. They prophesy during the first 1260 days (Rev. 11:3). Since the last 1260 days is shortened to 1040 (2300 - 1260 = 1040), there would not be 1260 days left during which they could prophesy. They sure aren't going to be on Earth when the Wrath of God falls on the 2300th day.

> > Of course, the two witnesses will probably be prophesying against taking the mark of the beast

You are on the right track there. They are killed Mid-Trib because they won't bow down to the Satan-possessed False Prophet or his image. They won't take the mark of the beast. Agape

Incoming email

Re: False Prophets about the rapture
CHECK IT OUT! Read Deuteronomy 13:1-11; 1 John 4:1-3...already in the world --- when John wrote.

Also see: THE RAPTURE, FACT OR FICTION?
http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/compaq/1446/id44.htm

My reply

I have not prophesied anything. I have just studied the Bible as hard and deep as I can go for the last 40 years. I just tell how things look to me. It is up to you to compare it with Scripture and see if these things are so.

> > 1 John 4:1-3

It says, "believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God. And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world."

I definitely say, "Jesus Christ is come in the flesh." More than this, Christ is the "redeemer the LORD (YHVH) of hosts" of Isa. 44:6. He is the first (YHVH king of Israel) and the last (YHVH of hosts). He says, "I am the first, AND I am the last; and beside me there is no God." The Pre-incarnate Christ was the one that talked to Moses at Sinai. In Isa. 48:16-18, he said, " Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (1. the Father), and his Spirit (2. the Holy Spirit), hath sent me (3. the Pre-incarnate Christ). Thus saith the LORD (YHVH), thy Redeemer (the Pre-incarnate Christ), the Holy One of Israel; I (the Pre-incarnate Christ) am the LORD (YHVH) thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments!"

> > see: THE RAPTURE, FACT OR FICTION?

> > http://www.fortunecity.com/skyscraper/compaq/1446/id44.htm > > church of Christ, Brookings, South Dakota RAPTURE, FACT OR FICTION, By Ray Hawks

I hope Ray Hawks is not the pastor of this church. He is all mixed up. Anyone that thinks Revelation took place in 70 AD is fooling themselves. The Earth is going to get hit by 2 pieces of an asteroid (Rev. 8:8,10). The destruction is the greatest since there was a nation. Dan. 12:1,2 says, "there shall be a time of trouble (Jacob's trouble), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time (LAST TRUMP of God) thy people shall be delivered (the 144,000), every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake."

If anyone follows Hawks, they will be mixed up too. He can't even get it exactly right how to be saved, let alone understand prophecy correctly.

> > Hawks: Today, one may become a member of Christ’s spiritual kingdom by being born again, (John 3:3, 5). The new birth consists of believing the gospel (Mark 16:16), repenting of past sins (Acts 2:38), confessing Jesus as God’s Son (Acts 8:37); Rom. 10:9, 10), and being immersed into Christ (Rom. 6:3, 4; Gal. 3:27). God adds the obedient to his Son’s body, the church (Acts 2:47) which is the same as translation (Col. 1:13).

Let's break this down and see what are some of the things he thinks one has to do to be born again (i.e., be saved).
(1) "believing the gospel (Mark 16:16)"
(2) "repenting of past sins (Acts 2:38)"
(3) "confessing Jesus as God’s Son (Acts 8:37); Rom. 10:9, 10)"
(4) "being immersed into Christ (Rom. 6:3, 4; Gal. 3:27)"

Rom. 10:9,10 says, "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." If one says he really believes in the Lord Jesus, does he need to do anything else, like repent of sins or be baptized? No.

If we confess with our mouth the Lord Jesus and really believe that God hath raised him from the dead, we are saved. At the moment of Salvation, Jesus Christ baptizes us with the Spirit of Christ/Spirit of God/ Holy Spirit. Rom. 8:9 says, "ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

> > Hawks: "Jesus spoke of that desolation when the temple was destroyed in A.D. 70. The book of Revelation reveals what Daniel was told to seal up (Dan. 12:9). John was told of things to “shortly come to pass” (Rev. 1:1 3; 22:6, 10)."

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is when he is revealed to us at the Pre-Trib Rapture. The book of The Revelation of Jesus Christ is written as if the Rapture were at hand. It is "at hand" in both the 1st and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). Jesus signs off with, "Surely I come quickly." Rev. 2:10 may show that he will come just 10 days after some Christians are cast into prison. Therefore, The Revelation of Jesus Christ seems to be written as if the Pre-Trib Rapture is just 10 days away, when it truly is "at hand."

The first Rapture group is the saints "out of evey kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Rev. 5:9) that are in Heaven with the 24 elders before the 1st seal is broken. John is one of the 24 elders, of whom 12 are the apostles. III John 1:1 says, "The elder unto the wellbeloved Gaius, whom I love in the truth." I Peter 5:1 says, "The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed" (at the Pre-Trib Revelation of Jesus Christ). When John is caught up in Rev. 4:1, Peter is also caught up to Heaven. All the elders are caught up at the same time. They are seen crowned and sitting on thrones right after the Pre-Trib Rapture (Rev. 4:4).

The other 12 elders are the patriarchs of Israel. They are caught up when the FIRST "TRUMP OF GOD" (I Thess. 4:16) sounds. Nu. 10:1-4 says, "the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee two trumpets (because there are 2 Raptures) of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (both, i.e., at the "LAST TRUMP" (I Cor. 15:51,52), all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with one trumpet (i.e., the FIRST TRUMP), then the princes (12 patriarchs), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

When the FIRST "TRUMP OF GOD" sounds, I think all 24 elders and the Bride of Christ will be caught up to Heaven. That Rapture is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37; Lu. 17:26). No fire fell, only water, symbol of the Spirit of Christ. They are in Heaven before the 1st seal is broken on the Title Deed of the Earth.

When the "LAST TRUMP" OF GOD sounds, the Tribulation saints of Rev. 7:9,14 will be caught up the Heaven just before the 7th seal is broken. They are the "great multitude...out of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" that come "out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." Notice that those that are caught up at the FIRST TRUMP do not have to wash their robes. The Philadelphians, who have the "OPEN DOOR" set before them, receive no words of condemnation from Jesus. They are caught up at the FIRST TRUMP.

The Laodiceans get cut off and have to wait until the 2nd Rapture. Luke 12:46 tells of their cutting off. It says, "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the shortened Tribulation, Dan. 8:13,14) with the unbelievers." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

> > Hawks: When you take such passages as Acts 6:14; Rom. 13:11, 12; Rom. 16:20; 1 Cor. 1:7, 8; 13:8-10; Eph. 4:11-13; Heb. 2:26-29; James 5:7-8; and 1 Pet. 4:7 with Matt. 24:27 you can see the passages refer to the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple. This is spoken of as the “coming of the Son of man.” ...Jesus speaks of the destruction of the temple by the Romans which took place in A.D. 70.

Hawks would rob us of all prophecy being fulfilled today. If it all came true in 70 AD, Dan. 9:24 would have come true in 70 AD. It says, "Seventy weeks (70 x 7 = 490 years) are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city (Jerusalem), to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy." We still have sin in the world. Satan is still transgressing. Everlasting righteousness will not arrive until Christ is anointed the most Holy. Prophecies are still being fulfilled. To think all these have already been fulfilled is to park our brains and blind ourselves to the truth. Anyone should be able to see that evil is still in the world.

To think that Christ came in 70 AD is against reason. When "his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south." That has not happened yet, either.

James 5:7-9 says, "Be patient therefore, brethren (believers), unto the coming of the Lord (at the Pre-Trib Rapture). Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early (former rain in Tishri) and latter rain (in Nisan). Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door." To understand it, we need to see what period of time it is talking about. Verse 3 says, "Ye have heaped treasure together for THE LAST DAYS." When the Rapture is near is when "the judge standeth before the door" of Rev. 3:8;4:1) Therefore, James 5:7-9 is talking about THE LAST DAYS, when "the coming of the Lord draweth nigh." We are living in THE LAST DAYS now.

> > Hawks: Actually, Matt. 24:34 is the passage that destroys the remillennial contention of this prophecy. Jesus said, "Verily I say unto you, this generation whall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Jesus answered the question about what would be the sign of his coming and the end of the age with the parable of the fig tree. It was fulfilled in 1967, when Israel grew 4 huge leaves, Sinai, Golan Heights, Gaza Strip and West Bank, in the Six-Day War of 1967. A generation is 40 years plus another 120 days. Jesus told the Pharisees in Mt. 23:36, "All these things shall come upon this generation." They did, in 70 AD. Counting Palm Sunday, when Jesus presented himself as king and was rejected, as day # 1, that generation lasted 40 years plus another 120 days.

I Cor. 10:11 says, "Now all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (lit., ages) are come." I think applying the 40 years plus another 120 days to our days reveals when this age will end. Israel lost the temple in 70 AD. She regained the temple area on Iyar 28 (June 7) in 1967. Adding the 40 years plus another 120 days brings us to Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007), the Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial Day of the Lord.

That is an important date for another reason. The Oslo Accords were signed Sept. 13, 1993. Adding the 7 good and the 7 bad years, as when Joseph was in Egypt, brings us to Sept. 13, 2007. The Olso Accords were ratified 3 days later, on Tishri 1, 5754. Adding the good and bad years brings us to Tishri 1, 5768, which is Sept. 13, 2007, the Feast of Trumpets that I think begins the Millennium. That smacks of something God would do.

I think that Christ will be crowned King of kings and Lord of lords that day in Heaven. Following the Coronation will be the Marriage of the Lamb and the Judgment Seat of Christ. Rev. 11:18 tells us what will happen that day in Heaven and Earth. The saints will all be in Heaven getting their rewards while the catastrophe hits unbelievers left on Earth after the 2nd Rapture takes place. Rev. 11:18 says, "the nations were angry (Gog's united nations' army is attacking Israel), and thy wrath is come (the asteroids will impact Earth, Rev. 8:8,10), and the time of the dead, that they should be judged (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Isa 24:1 tells us what happens to this globe floating in space when the asteroids impact it. "the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof." It is ridiculous to assume that this happened in 70 AD.

We know that the 2nd Rapture takes place before the wrath of God hits Earth, because it takes place before the 7th seal is broken on the Title Deed of the Earth. The 7 trumpet judgments come out of the 7th seal.

When the 2nd trumpet sounds, "a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea" (the Mediterranean Sea. Zeph. 2:4,5 says, "Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast." Amos 8:9 says, "it shall come to pass in that day, saith the Lord GOD, that I will cause the sun to go down at noon, and I will darken the earth in the clear day." A little later, "the sea...became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea." Did this happen to the Mediterranean Sea in 70 AD?

> > Hawks: In Mark 9:1 Jesus told his disciples, "Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power." Those disciples would see the kingdom come before they died! They lived in the first century. Therefore the kingdom came in the first century before they died!

Peter, James, and John saw Christ transfigured (Mt. 17:1f). That was a view of Christ as if in the kingdom of God. John saw vision of Christ coming to set up his kingdom on Earth in The Revelation of Jesus Christ. At that time, he was probably the last living apostle. Rev. 19:11-16 says, "I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS." Did this happen in 70 AD?

The saints are the armies that were in Heaven. They had been caught up at the two Raptures, Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath. Zech. 14:5 says, "the LORD my God shall come, and ALL THE SAINTS with thee." They had to already be in Heaven to return to Earth with the Lord at the Second Advent. Zech. 14:9,11 says, "the LORD shall be king over all the earth...and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited." You know Jerusalem was not safely inhabited in 70 AD. This is future. It is for the last days.

> > Hawks: John wrote in Rev. 1:9 that he and those he wrote to were "in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ." If the kingdom was going to be established in 1995, how could John, Paul, the Colossean church, and other saints be members of it in the first centruy?

I think the 1st day of the Kingdom will be the Feast of Trumpets in 2007. John, Paul, the rest of the elders and the members of the Bride of Christ that have died will come with Christ at the Pre-Trib Rapture, maybe on Pentecost, 2001. I Thess. 4:16-18 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

I'm sorry that you have no comfort since you do not think this could happen to you. It is repeated again for emphasis too. I Thess. 5:9-11 says, "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another." Agape

   Pro and Con 703   Or Return   Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@pe.net


Send me e-mail now


8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110


© 1996-2001, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 3-4-01