Pro and Con 714

Posted 3-19-01

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...Quick question: I'm trying to understand and learn how to answer people who query "this generation" as stated by Jesus who would see "all these things" come to pass (ie. first-fruits rapture etc. ).

1967 (six day way fulfillment of 'fig tree prophecy' when israel grew 4 leaves) plus 40 years plus 120 days insn't it? Where do the 120 days come from again? I can't remember how to explain that.

Sorry I'm a bit confused...and this a foundational thing for me to get cemented. I feel really strongly to study all of this more intensly with my open bible. So that I can explain this to others who want to know.

Can you also explain to me the '10 day' countdown that begins before the 28 May 2001 Feast of Pentecost. It has something to do with the first fruits harvest and the wheat and barley harvests in Israel doesn't it? I've been reading your site but I get a bit lost in the explanations sometimes.

Also: recently listened to a tape of Howard Pittmans' testimony of life after death. He was killed by a haemorrahge and was permitted by God to see angels, demons and the "highway to heaven" which is spoken about in the Bible which goees between heaven and earth and "only the redeemed walk there". I liked his testimony because it checked out with the Word 100%. I got it from a the Christian Gospel Tape Lending Library over here. It was a bit of a warning about the Judgement Seat of Christ actually.

One of the reasons we need to study the word everyday in relation to these things is to keep our faith built up and so the things of the world, the cares of the world don't build up and 'clog our flow' of Holy Spirit oil! I re-read an explanation of the Jewish Wedding and its significance for the disciples in relation to Jesus' promise that he would come again. Wow! It nearly made me jump for joy on the early morning train to work!

Agape my friend and keep that 'lamp of yours burning bright'. There are people all around the world who appreciate your ministry and pray for you very much.

PS: just think it won't be long now till we hear the shout "Come up hither!".

My reply

Thanks for your prayers and kind words.

> > "this generation"

In Mt. 23:36, Jesus told the Pharisees, "All these things shall come upon this generation." They did, in 70 AD. Counting Palm Sunday in 30 AD as day #1, when Jesus was refused as king, to Av 10 in 70 AD, when the temple burned, was 40 years plus another 120 days.

I Cor. 10:11 says, "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (lit., ages) are come." Adding the 40 years plus another 120 days to Iyar 28 (June 7, 1967, when Israel regained the temple area) brings us to Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007), when I think the millennial Day of the Lord begins. The first day is the Feast of Trumpets and the Day of God's Wrath on Earth, also the day of the Coronation of Christ, the Marriage of the Lamb and the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven.

> > Can you also explain to me the '10 day' countdown that begins before the 28 May 2001 Feast of Pentecost.

Pentecost is the 50th day from the Feast of Firstfruits. The anniversary of Jesus' ascension is the 40th day. That leaves a 10-day segment. Rev. 2:10 mentions 10 days. It says, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life." Isn't it nice that there is a 10-day cap on this "tribulation"? Those left behind at the 1st Rapture will have 2300 days of Tribulation (Dan. 8:13,14), including the 1040-day Great Tribulation.

How could it limit the span of time to 10 days unless Revelation was written as if it was 10 days before the Rapture? The Rapture is "at hand" in the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). Jesus signs off with, "Surely I come quickly." Ten days would be quickly, and he comes quickly at the Rapture (2:5; 3:11). Rev. 3:11 says, "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." That is written to the Philadelphians. They have no condemnation mentioned, and have the "open door" set before them (3:8). The Rapture is in 4:1, when heaven's door opens and the Lord says, "Come up hither."

The barley harvest starts on the Feast of Firstfruits, which is Resurrection Day. Christ is the seed of the woman in Gen. 3:24. There were other saints that came out of their graves that day in 30 AD and were seen in Jerusalem (Mt. 27:52). They were represented by the rest of the barley sheaf that was offered on Firstfruits. The wheat harvest ends at Pentecost. Agape

Incoming email

Lutherans split over Pope's role By UWE SIEMON-NETO, UPI religion correspondent PARIS, Mar. 11 (UPI) -- Lutheran bishops in Germany are split over whether the pope could act as a universally accepted spokesman for all Christianity, according to "Idea," a Protestant news service.

Hans Christian Knuth, presiding bishop of the United Evangelical Lutheran Church in Germany, suggested that Protestants might recognize the pontiff in this role. Johannes Friedrich, Lutheran bishop of Bavaria, seconded Knuth's suggestion. Friedrich is also in charge of his denomination's relations with the Roman Catholic Church....

Ishmael Noko, General Secretary of the Lutheran World Federation in Geneva, reacted more cautiously to Knuth's and Friedrich's suggestion. He told "Idea" that Lutherans could certainly look to the Pope "as a spiritual leader in the word."

But, Noko said, "One cannot disassociate his spiritual role from his place as primate of the Roman Catholic episcopate."

The Lutheran leader then asked, "Does globalization really call for a global spokesman for all Christians?"

My comment

I think it will come to pass. The Tribulation Pope will probably head up United Religions.

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Originally from: "ben Yosef"

Shalom, Tonight I ran into a Kairite Jewish friend having dinner with his sister at the Jerusalem Mall who was excited to tell me that this afternoon he had located a field of barley IN AVIV!

AVIV is a stage of barley growth that indicates it is mature and almost ready for harvest or "in the ear."...

This sighting provides the biblical basis to reckon the start of all of the coming Hebrew festivals and celebrations, Passover, Shavuot, Rosh Hashanah, Yom Kippur and Succot. However, at this juncture, these dates are determined by RABBINIC sanction and "intercalation" of the Hebrew calendar and do not always agree with the actual lunar sightings associated with these dates in ancient times when the Pharisees relied on a Sanhedrin to proclaim each new month as the moon was sighted.

...the barley field in Aviv was located at ELON, near Ma'ale Adumim or about 15 kilometers east of Jerusalem....

...The rabbinic "intercalation" of the calendar is designed to make the observances easier on the people by adjusting the date of the fast of Yom Kippur, for instance, so it does not fall on a Shabbat or the day before or after a Shabbat, which makes preparing food a real hardship and interferes with commands related to the Shabbat. When you adjust that date, if you predetermine that each month will alternate between 30 and 29 days, you adjust the entire calendar. The intercalation is also designed to be sure that the festival of Passover is celebrated as close as possible to the vernal equinox beginning the season of Spring, which usually falls on March 20 in the Gregorian calendar.

That the Jewish spiritual leaders have been given the authority by G-D to so adjust the calendar has been a debate among the Orthodox who hold to the oral tradition that God fixed the seven days of the week but the festivals can be adjusted, and Kairites (who reject the oral tradition in its entirety) for untold centuries. These debates go even further back historically to the differences between the Pharisees and Saducees...Today...until a Sanhedrin is reconvened...that wisdom has been invested with the modern Pharisees (Orthodox rabbis) who intercalate the calendar.

There are many convincing proofs in my mind that TODAY the rabbis continue to have this authority sanctioned by Hashem to regulate THEIR WEEKS. Most notable is the expression "in YOUR weeks" which pertains to the counting of the Omer. If the omer is counted -- as is the Kairite practice beginning on the first "first day" of the week following a Passover, those WEEKS beginning with Sunday and ending with Shabbat, are determined by Hashem from Creation and cannot be changed, but the seven weeks from the second day of Passover to Shavuot (the Orthodox reckoning) can begin and end on any day of the week thus they are OUR weeks and different from Hashem's weeks. Similarly the festivals are called YOUR festivals meaning the rabbinic beit din (in the place of a Sanhedrin) has the authority to regulate them....

But until a Sanhedrin can be reconvened, and until the rabbis are convinced it is time to revert to the biblical means of determining the start of each month through physical observations of the moon, Joes who submit to rabbinic authority (the seat of Moses which even Y'shua invested with the Pharisees), should observe the rabbinically sanctioned dates....

Since Passover for the Kairites would be celebrated two nights earlier when the moon is full and it is the Kairite practice to begin the 50 day counting of the omer leading to Shavuot or Pentecost, on the Sunday during the week of Passover (the "morrow of the Shabbat"), the Kairite Jews will begin counting the omer on Sunday, April 8. The Orthodox Jews begin the count of THEIR WEEKS on the following day, Monday, April 9, the second day of Passover.

This means Shavuot will fall according to the Kairite reckoning on the day of Sunday May 27. The rabbinically sanctioned Orthodox Shavuot begins at dusk that evening....
Shalom Shalom & Hashem's love & blessings, ben Yosef

My reply

Thanks. This means that there wouldn't be a month's delay this year. Agape

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From: CAPS

Most realize that the word Pentecost means to "count 50." Howerver, there are other uses of the number 50 that seem to add to the evidence that the Day of Pentecost is indeed the Day of the Rapture.

II Samuel 24:24: And the king said unto Araunah, Nay; but I will surely buy it of thee at a price: neither will I offer burnt offerings unto the LORD my God of that which doth cost me nothing. So David bought the threshingfloor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver. Look at this. FIFTY SHEKELS OF SILVER FOR THE PRICE OF THE THRESHINGFLOOR.

II Kings 2:1-7: And it came to pass, when the LORD would take up Elijah into heaven by a whirlwind, that Elijah went with Elisha from Gilgal. And Elijah said unto Elisha, Tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Bethel. And Elisha said unto him, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they went down to Bethel. And the sons of the prophets that were at Bethel came forth to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he said, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace. And Elijah said unto him, Elisha, tarry here, I pray thee; for the LORD hath sent me to Jericho. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. So they came to Jericho. And the sons of the prophets that were at Jericho came to Elisha, and said unto him, Knowest thou that the LORD will take away thy master from thy head to day? And he answered, Yea, I know it; hold ye your peace. And Elijah said unto him, Tarry, I pray thee, here; for the LORD hath sent me to Jordan. And he said, As the LORD liveth, and as thy soul liveth, I will not leave thee. And they two went on. And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.

NOTICE THAT 50 (as in PENTECOST) MEN WITNESSED THIS EVENT. Coincidence?? I don't think so. This "rapture" was witnessed by the number 50.

My reply

Thanks for sharing your studies.

> > David bought the threshingfloor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver.

It ties in. Christ is the greater Son of David. We are wheat. The threshingfloor suggests the wheat harvest, which is the Rapture. Buying the threshingfloor suggests redemption. To redeem means to buy at a price. Christ is our Redeemer, and he paid the price for his wheat in full. The Rapture is our day of redemption. Eph.1:12-14 says, "Christ. In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession." Eph. 4:30 says, "grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption."

Boaz chose Ruth as his bride on the threshingfloor too. He gave her 6 measures of barley. That may be a type of 6000 years. They were married after that. That even fits. I think the 6000th year since Adam was cast out of the Garden was in 5758 (1997/1998).

> > And fifty men of the sons of the prophets went, and stood to view afar off: and they two stood by Jordan.

Now I realize why they stood "afar off." Fifty applies to the Pre-Trib Rapture. Elijah was a type of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, which seems to be on the Feast of Trumpets. He was caught up in a chariot of fire, because fire will fall that day. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Orion
Several times, in my own reading, I have found references to Orion and the 7 stars, they being in the hand of Jesus. I can find it in only four places in the Bible but it seems very important. Amos 5:8, Revelation 1:16, and Rev. 1:20, and 3:1. It seems very significant. Could you tell me what it means?

In an earlier e-mail you told me about the three heavens, do you think any of the UFO's are of this origin? The reason I ask is that in 1966 I was visited by one that meets no description of any I have ever heard of. Ofcourse, you know I was not believed! Thank you

My reply

Job 9:5-9 says that God "removeth the mountains, and they know not: which overturneth them in his anger. Which shaketh the earth out of her place, and the pillars thereof tremble. Which commandeth the sun, and it riseth not; and sealeth up the stars. Which alone spreadeth out the heavens, and treadeth upon the waves of the sea. Which maketh Arcturus, Orion, and Pleiades, and the chambers of the south.

Job 28:38-32 says, "Hath the rain a father? (yes, Christ comes as the rain (Hos, 6:3) or who hath begotten the drops of dew? Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it? The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen. Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth (the Zodiac) in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus (Bootes, the good shepherd) with his sons?"

Amos 5:7-8 says, "Ye who turn judgment to wormwood, and leave off righteousness in the earth, Seek him that maketh the seven stars and Orion, and turneth the shadow of death into the morning, and maketh the day dark with night: that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The LORD is his name."

All the Zodiac tells the story of Christ, the child of the virgin, the Redeemer, the Bridegroom, the King, and the conflict between Christ and Satan. The Bride becomes Queen Cassiopia. Both Orion and Bootes represent Christ, As Bootes, he is the good shepherd that takes care of his sheep in the Greater and Lesser Sheepfolds (now called Ursa Major and Ursa Minor or the big and little dippers. That's a pretty good name, for we will be dipped up in the Raptures. Orion represents Christ as the winner. He is holding up the head and skin of a lion as a victory trophy. Therefore I Peter 5:8 says, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour." God's picture book in the stars shows us that Draco will be deposed and the great king Cepheus (Christ) will take dominion.The pole star moved from Thuban in Draco to Polaris, which is now under the king's foot.

ORION means ONE COMING FORTH AS LIGHT. The star BETELGUEZ, in the right shoulder, means THE COMING OF THE BRANCH. RIGEL means THE FOOT THAT CRUSHES. BELLATRIX means QUICKLY COMING. The star in his right leg is SAIPH, BRUISED. ORION's sword has a lamb's head on the handle. This constellation is the most easily recognized one in the sky. It rules the winter sky. I miss it in the summer.

I have 3 files on this picture book in the stars. It was given to man before Scripture was written. Enoch and Seth are thought to have drawn it under the inspiration of God. The gospel story told there goes out to all nations. They all have had knowledge of it from ancient times too.

> > Revelation 1:16, and Rev. 1:20, and 3:1

These are not Orion. The 7 stars in Jesus' hand in the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1 have just been caught up to Heaven. They are the star achievers of the 7 churches.

> > In an earlier e-mail you told me about the three heavens, do you think any of the UFO's are of this origin?

No. I think they are demon's trickery. Have you noticed that very little stays the same in the different accounts? They play with men's minds. Agape

Incoming email

> > YOU WROTE..."Luke 17:36,37 says, "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken (to Heaven in the Pre-Wrath Rapture), and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (the Body of Christ, i.e., the Bride group) is (in Heaven), thither will the eagles (high flying Tribulation saints) be gathered together." Isa. 40:31 says, "they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."

Re 19:17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

My reply

These things take place at two different times. Luke 17:36,37 is talking about the Pre-Wrath Rapture. It is as the days of Lot, when fire fell that same day. It is the Feast of Trumpets (Tishri 1), the Day of God's Wrath.

Re 19:17 is the battle of Armageddon that takes place after all the saints return with Christ. There are 7 months (Eze. 39:12,13) between the Day of God's Wrath (Eze. 38:20) and the 2nd Advent on the following Nisan 1 (Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3). Agape

My reply

Thanks. I'm glad you stepped up another rung on the spiritual ladder. Every time we do that, we are tested for awhile to see if we will hang on to it. Show your determination, and the test will end and turn to blessing. Agape

Incoming email

I know you believe that the two witnesses will witness during the first 1260 days of the tribulation period, and be killed at the mid-point of the tribulation period by the Antichrist who will then seat himself in the temple in Jerusalem and claim to be God. Don't you think it's going to look strange if they are resurrected 3 1/2 days after he killed him since God has the power to resurrect someone, and the Antichrist is claiming to be God? If the two witnesses are witnessing against the coming Antichrist who is going to claim to be God, and they are urging people not to take the mark of the beast in the forehead or in the hand in order to buy or sell, what kind of explanation do you think the the Antichrist might give for the cause of their resurrection? I think he is either going to deceitfully claim that he resurrected them because he has forgiven them for speaking falsely against him, and is rewarding them by sending them on a mission up in heaven to him, or people will think that someone other than the Antichrist resurrected them like the real God. Just wondering what you thought on the subject. In Christ

My reply

Unless we are told something like that in Scripture, all we could do would be to guess. God has caused his say on the matter to be written down. When people see the 2 witnesses raptured, I think a large number will realize that the Bible is true and accept Christ. Rev. 7:9,14 shows that is a great multitude that no man can number that will be saved out of the Tribulation.

For 3.5 days, the False Prophet will be sending his soldiers after those Israelites that flee. Rev. 12:17 says, "the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ." He will soon be occupied with the damage caused by the earthquake that kills 7000 the same hour that the 2 witnesses ascend.

It is interesting that the witnesses are dead 3.5 days, then there is an earthquake. If the Tribulation wasn't shortened, the Messianic Jews would be in the wilderness and Petra 3.5 years (Rev. 12:6,14). The earth opening her mouth and swallowing up Satan's forces in Rev. 12:15,16, may be at the same time as the earthquake in Jerusalem (Rev. 11:13). The timing would fit. Agape

Incoming email from the above

Re: Revelation 8:12
I know that you believe that the first half of the tribulation period will contain 1260 days and the second half will contain 1040 days, but I would like to know what your explanation of Revelation 8:12 is which says, "And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise." Since the sun, moon, and stars cannot be turned off and on with a light switch and it will seem like the sunlight is missing for 4 hours and it will seem like the moonlight and starlight is missing for 4 hours, how do you think it would it be possible for a third part of the of the sun, moon, and stars to be darkened so that the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise? Do you think that we will have eight hours of sunlight and 8 hours of moonlight, and eight hours of cloudy skies? Or do you think it's possible that the two asteroids coming down to Earth will speed up the rotatation of the Earth giving us a shortened day of eight hours of of sunlight and eight hours of moonlight so that the days will pass more quickly? As you know, I think that we will have 666 (24 hr.)days during the 2nd half of the tribulation period, and 594 (16 hr.) days. This 594 (16 hr.) days would make it seem like 396 (24) days had gone by on the calendar. Jesus does say in Matt. 24:22 that the days would be shortened because otherwise there would be no flesh saved, and for the elect's sake the days would be shortened. So you do have the 2nd half of the tribulation period shortened to 1040 days, but I still like to know what your interpretation of Rev. 8:12 is? In Christ

My reply

> > I would like to know what your explanation of Revelation 8:12 is

The 2 main asteroid pieces impact Earth in Rev. 8:8,10. It will be on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial Day of the Lord.

Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come." Joel 2:1,2 says, " Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations." The united nations' army under Gog is attacking Israel. The asteroid that impacts the Mediterranean Sea (Zeph. 2:4,5) will stop them. Only 1/6th of his forces will be left (Eze. 39:2).

Mal. 2:3 says, "your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it." Hos. 9:5 says, "What will ye do in the solemn day, and in the day of the feast of the LORD?" Hos. 5:7 says, "They have dealt treacherously against the LORD: for they have begotten strange children: now shall a month (chodesh, new moon) devour them." The only feast that is on the new moon is the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1.

Rev. 8:12 is talking about this darkness. The air is darkened by smoke from the asteroid impact.

> > do you think it's possible that the two asteroids coming down to Earth will speed up the rotation of the Earth giving us a shortened day

No. The Earth will be turned upside down. "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof." (Isa. 24:1). I think it will be Jesus' Long Day. Jesus from the Hebrew is Joshua. I think Joshua's Long Day was a type of Jesus' Long Day. Joshua 10:11 says, "it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword."

The LORD will do the same type of thing when he stops Gog's army and destroys Babylon. Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high (in the asteroid Wormwood), and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? (the asteroid) Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. He will surely VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country (Iraq): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

> > Jesus does say in Matt. 24:22 that the days would be shortened because otherwise there would be no flesh saved.

The space covered by the Great Tribulation is to be shortened, not the day. Rev. 12:12 says, "rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that HE HATH BUT A SHORT TIME." Rev. 17:10 says, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other (the False Prophet) is not yet come; and WHEN HE COMETH, HE MUST CONTINUE A SHORT SPACE."

The Great Tribulation, the last 3.5 years, is the space to be shortened. The way it is brought about is that the 7th seal is broken the next day after the 6th seal is broken (Rev. 6:12,17; 8:1). It may be that the asteroid will come in at an oblique angle, and if it hit Earth on the next pass, it would be enough of a direct hit to blow Earth apart like Satan's planet Rahab was split apart to form our Asteroid Belt. The way the "aster" of Rev. 8:10 comes in is revealed in Isa. 14:22,23. It says, "I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts, and cut off from Babylon the name, and remnant, and son, and nephew, saith the LORD. I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the besom of destruction, saith the LORD of hosts." This sweeping with the broom of destruction will cut a swath from Babylon to Egypt. Egypt will be hurt so badly that no one will live there for the next 40 years. Agape

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