Pro and Con 717

Posted 3-24-01

Incoming email

Re: Pray, Pray, and Pray some more.
When I saw this article I really saw how AWESOME the Lord is!!! For a long time I have internally felt that the end was near, but when I read these articles for some reason my spirit jumped with anticipation for believers and sorrow for the lost. Please click the link below. Note: the articles that are marked in red are the most significant! Agape!!
http://www.upway.com/watchmenwatching/0301/W-Mar21-01.shtml

My reply

Thanks. We can see prophecy being fulfilled. Some tidbits I found are below. We need to take heed to Mt. 24:6: "ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: SEE THAT YE BE NOT TROUBLED: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet." It is drawing near though.
"Bush assured Israel of military aid and diplomatic cover for mutually agreed limited military actions...
ISRAEL IS BOMBING KEY TARGETS IN THE GAZA STRIP!"

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there is a lovely picture on Astronomy Picture of the Day.
http://www.antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html
Jupiter, Saturn, and the Pleiades star cluster. The narrative mentions that this weekend it will be possible to observe all the solar system's planets in a single night. Thought you would enjoy the picture of our soon-to-be dwelling place, if your investigation is on target.

A dear old Christian friend of mine just passed away at age 94. Larry was one of the oldest active pilots in the United States, piloting an airplane when he was age 90. One night, he, my husband, and I were on our way to a flying club meeting, under a star filled sky. Out of the blue, and we had never discussed this, Larry said, as he looked up at the night sky, "You know, Saturn is where heaven is." Larry is now with the Lord Jesus, and I believe I will see him again soon, and we can resume our flying together; only the Lord Jesus knows by what means we will be accomplishing this. I don't think we will need our internal combustion flying machines, though. Blessings to you and family. Looking up, watching, and praying always to be accounted worthy.

My reply

Thanks. I hope our fog is gone by then. I thought spring was here to stay, then the fog moved in. I expect Larry knows now whether he was right about Saturn or not. Agape

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Re: saved??
I have a problem with salvation some say just believe== some say confess the Lord Jesus Christ and believe in your heart. question when are my sins gone?? I know Jesus died for the world but who in the world is saved?? only those who obey him? and I thought the word of God said that baptism is for the remission of sins In acts where people got saved???? thank you for your letter.

My reply

The Bible is God breathed. It is our anchor of truth to keep us afloat in a sea of people's opinions.

Only people who believe in Christ are saved.

Rom. 10:9,10 says, "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

I prayed and said that I accepted Jesus Christ as my own personal Savior.

At the moment of salvation, all past sins are wiped off the books. We get a fresh start. When we sin after that, we need to use I John 1.9, confess all known sins so God can cleanse us of all unrighteousness.

Baptism does not save us. It is symbolic. First, it is a public confession that we believe in Christ. When we go under the water, it is symbolic of our dying to the old life and coming up out of the water to new life. Truly, a Christian is a new creature. We have eternal life. The body can die, but the spirit and soul do not. And, later on, we will get resurrection bodies if this body dies.

Ted, I don't want to put more on you than you are ready for. The first thing is to make sure you are saved. Then when you have questions, feel free to ask. I have studied the Bible as hard as I could go for 40 years. I may not have all the answers, but I have learned lots of things during this time. I hope you will write me back and tell me you have accepted Christ. That is what we were put on Earth for, to make that decision, whether we believe in Christ or not. To me, there is nothing to lose and everything to gain by accepting Christ. Hell is real, and we don't want to end up there. Only Christ can save us from that. Acts 4:12 says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Agape

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Re: Those Not Taken in Pre-Trib
There is something that has me worried.

I have been taught all my life that the rapture takes place before the tribulation begins and that those left behind will have no chance for salvation. I haven't ever had any in depth study shown to me to back this position up and no alternative view has ever been provided when this view was mentioned. It's just the position that is stated whenever the rapture and the tribulation are mentioned in the course of a sermon or lesson at the churches I have attended (only three on a regular basis during my lifetime). The only reference ever made is 2 Thess. 2:1-12.

2:1-12: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I had never heard of two raptures until I came across your web site. I am convinced through my own study of the information you have provided that you are correct and that there are two raptures. The thing that has me worried is what the many who have been taught as I was will believe if and when they realize they have not been taken in the pre-tribulation rapture. I think there are going to be very many in this category. It seems that the only way for them to become serious about God will be to get into his word and search out the scriptures and come to the same conclusions then that you (and myself and many others) have come to now. However, I think there will be no motivation to do this if they believe that they now have no chance of salvation. They may think that they weren't really saved after all.

There are a couple of possiblities.

1.) God can move in their hearts and cause them to know that they are his and cause them to get into his word and figure out the truth in that way.

2.) They may be confused enough about having missed the rapture that they begin to study their Bible to find out why and figure out the truth that way.

3.) This isn't a big deal because there aren't that many who have been taught the way I was or who would think the way I might have (although it will be a big deal to those - even if there was only one - who are in this condition).

I know that all I can do is to make sure that I am ready and that I do all I can to help others to be ready both by accepting Jesus Christ as their Saviour and by making sure that they are living for him day by day and moment by moment in a constant state of readiness to meet him face to face. I feel confident in leaving everything in his hands because I know that he is more concerned about others more than I could ever imagine being. If you have any thoughts on the subject I would like to hear from you.

One other question that has come to my mind recently (my wife has expressed concern over it) is what might happen to our children at the pre-tribulation rapture. We have two daughters (one 2 years, 7 months and the other 4 months). Is there any indication in the Bible about what will happen to young children at this time? Once again, I know that this is in God's hands and that he is perfectly just. I feel confident that he will do what is right.

Thanks for responding to my questions and for all the hard work you have invested. I know God will reward you for it.

My reply

Thanks for those kind words.

> > what might happen to our children at the pre-tribulation rapture.

I feel confident that they will be raptured with you.

> > that the day of Christ is at hand.

It is unfortunate that this mistake was made. Almost all major MSS have the correct day of the Lord. It is translated that way in the RSV, ASV, BBE, Darby, Weymouth, etc.

> > a falling away first

The greek word "apostasia," means departing, separation, as in an "apostaciou," divorcement. It was translated as departing in early Bibles, The Geneva Bible (1560 AD), Tyndale's translation, Cranmer's version, the Great Bible (1539), Breecher's Bible, Beza's translation and the Coverdale Bible (1535). The Liddell-Scott-Jones Lexicon of Classical Greek has departure, disappearance. "Apostasiou" is translated as divorcement in Mk. 10:4, Mt. 19:7, and Mt. 5:31). It is translated "forsake" in Acts 21:21. Going away from, forsaking or departing speaks of the Pre-Trib Rapture. It will come before the millennial Day of the Lord begins.

> > now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed
> > The thing that has me worried is what the many who have been taught as I was will believe if and when they realize they have not been taken in the pre-tribulation rapture.

Mt. 24:24 says, "there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, IF IT WERE POSSIBLE, they shall deceive the very elect." It does NOT say that the elect will be deceived. It may NOT be possible.

II Thess 2:-8 says, "ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let (Old English for hindereth will hinder), until he be taken out of the way. And then (tote, at the same time) shall that Wicked be revealed."

That "tote" is one reason I think we will have to wait until the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost for the Rapture. Another reason is that all the other feasts are in rainy months. Tishri is the former rain. Nisan is the latter rain. See Song of Sol. 2:10-14. It says that the rain is over and gone. It also is when there are firstripe grapes. That is end of May and beginning of June.

The wicked one in II Thess. 2 is the False Prophet. He will be Satan-possessed. What withholdeth is the Holy Spirit in the salt of the earth--the saints. Mt. 5:13 says, "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men." The salt that has not lost its savour will be raptured before the Tribulation begins. The salt that has lost its savour, the foolish Laodicean virgins, will be cut off and left behind at the 1st Rapture. They will be caught up at the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his PORTION with the unbelievers." The one cut off will only have a "portion" with the unbelievers. They are not lost. They will be in the remainder of the Body of Christ that will be caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

> > I had never heard of two raptures until I came across your web site.

I don't understand why it was not taught from the 1st century on, but it is as the Jews not understanding that there were 2 comings of Christ. The prophets saw both Advents, but didn't see the valley between the 2 mountains.

It is hard enough for some people to see one Rapture, let alone two. To me, it is so clear. At the first trump (I Thess. 4:13-18), it merely says, "the trump of God." There is no need to say it is the first, because there has been no other trump of God. In I Cor. 15:51,52, it is "the last trump," because another trump had been sounded before that one. You can't have a last one without a first one. The "last trump" is the last in a series.

Some people assume that "the last trump" is at the 7th trumpet judgment, forgetting that no believer is going to have the Wrath of God hit them. "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thess. 5:9). They try to make only the vials God's Wrath, but that isn't right, either. The vials fill up the Wrath of God, but the trumpet judgments begin it. The 6th seal is opened in Rev. 6:12. Rev. 6:17 says, "the great day of his wrath is come." In Rev. 7, the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place. In Rev. 8, the 7th seal is broken and the 7 trumpet judgments BEGIN to strike Earth. The shortening of the Great Tribulation is between the breaking of the 6th and 7th seals. The 6th is on the last day of this age. The 7th is on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. The saints and children will be caught up before the 2 asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5).

> > 2.) They may be confused enough about having missed the rapture that they begin to study their Bible to find out why and figure out the truth that way.

That they should do. After the Rapture, I hope one of them will copy my web site and keep it up. I am trying hard to show where Scripture indicates 2 Raptures. I Thess. 4:13-18 (first trump), Mt. 24:37-41 (as the days of Noah), and Rev. 4:1; 5:9 (group out of all nations in Heaven) belong to the 1st Rapture. I Cor. 15:51,52 (last trump), Luke 17:28-32 (as the days of Lot), and Rev. 7:9,14 (another group out of all nations is in Heaven) belong to the last Rapture. Fire only falls after the "last trump" sounds (Luke 17:29).

Those that take this "last trump" to be the 7th trumpet judgment just don't realize that fire falls BEFORE the 1st trumpet judgment falls and as the first trumpets sound. Rev. 8:5-7 says, "the angel took the censer, and filled it with FIRE of the altar, and CAST IT INTO THE EARTH: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an earthquake. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound. The FIRST angel sounded, and there followed hail and FIRE mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up."

At the 2nd trumpet, the "great mountain burning with FIRE" is cast into the Mediterranean Sea (Zeph. 2:4,5). At the 3rd trumpet, The larger asteroid falls from heaven "BURNING as it were a lamp" (Rev. 8:10). These are catastrophies. They hit Earth before the 7th trumpet sounds. There is no way for the 2nd Rapture to be at the 7th trumpet judgment. Those judgments are for unbelievers. Agape

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From: CAPS. Re: MATTHEW CHAPTERS 24 & 25
Here is the way I see the sequence of Matthew chs. 24 & 25 . Some say this book of Matthew was only written to the Jews and that the prophecies apply only to them. However the DISCIPLES to whom Jesus was directly speaking very well could represent the Church.

In Matthew 24 is the famous Olivet Prophecy. I believe that this discourse by Jesus "weaves" back and forth in describing the conditions of the 2nd coming and at other times the conditions right BEFORE the Rapture. You can read this chapter for yourself and see that verses 27 & 28 speak about a COMING as the "lightning"(meaning in a moment,quickly) and mentions in verse 28 that "where the carcass (body of Christ) is there the eagles(church saints) will be GATHERED together." THEN in the very next 2 verses Jesus says "Immediately after the Tribulation of those days...." and " Then shall appear the Son of Man.....COMING IN POWER AND GREAT GLORY."

The above is just one example of the discussion of 2 COMINGS. NOTICE CAREFULLY THAT THE VERSES 27 & 28 DISCRIBE A COMING THAT COMES BEFORE THE TRIBULATION MENTIONED IN VERSE 29.

Also the describtion of the RELATIVELY NORMAL TIMES IN VERSES 38 ,39 could ONLY be BEFORE the Rapture. Nobody can read the CLIMACTIC upheavals of the Trumpets and Bowls of Wrath in the book of Revelation and say that there is going to be "relatively normal times" just before the 2nd coming in Power with most of the earth destroyed and great percentages of the population of the planet destroyed.

In chapter 25 Jesus then goes on to speak of the 10 virgins. In this parable Jesus speaks of the virgins as "SLEEPING". Do you think people, especially Jews , will be sleeping ( which pictures times of normalcy as mentioned in parts of chapter 24 ) right before the 2nd coming when their nation is being invaded and conquered and great signs in the heaven ?? Absolutely not. No, this setting of sleeping pictures the Church members sleeping BEFORE the Rapture and BEFORE the tribualtion just as the DISCIPLES (who represent the Church ) SLEPT IN THE GARDEN OF GETHSEMANE JUST BEFORE THE CLIMACTIC ARREST OF JESUS. Since the disciples did not MAINTAIN THE WATCH they DID ENTER INTO TIMES OF TEMPTATION which pictures the Church members (typified by the 5 foolish virgins) not maintaining the watch before the Rapture.

The next parable , wnich is given IMMEDIATELY after the 10 virgin discussion, is that of the "TALENTS" and the subsequent rewards. This, in sequence, then pictures the Rewards of the Saints of the Church at the Bema Seat. Paul wrote we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ to give account of those things done while in the body.

Next in sequence is the parable of the sheep and the goats which is clearly at the 2nd coming in power. This starts in Matthew 25:31 and following. CLEARLY THIS IS THE JUDGEMENT OF THE GENTILES to see who is going to enter the physical Kingdom of God on earth.

In summary, the RIGHTLY DIVIDING of the scriptures results in perfect sequencing.
First is the Rapture.
Second is the judgement of the believers who have just been Raptured.
Third is the judgement of the Gentile nations at the 2nd coming in Power.

Many miss the point of these PARABLES BEING IN THE ABOVE SEQUENCE !!

They therefore fail to see that the judgment of the TALENTS is for the believers and that AFTER THAT is the sheep and goat JUDGEMENT of the GENTILES.

We should also remember that the parables above are meant to represent something and events that are really going to happen. Some "jump on " the use of 10 virgins and miss the overall point that Jesus is trying to convey. Trying to interpret a parable too specifically is like getting so close to a tree that when looking at the "detail" of the bark of a tree that you conclude that it is no longer a tree.

Thank God and the Holy Spirit for the correct discernment of His Word. Amen.

My reply

> > I believe that this discourse by Jesus "weaves" back and forth in describing the conditions of the 2nd coming and at other times the conditions right BEFORE the Rapture.

I think that ONLY his coming at the Pre-Wrath Rapture is in Mt. 24:27-31, not the Pre-Trib Rapture or the Second Advent. There are 7 Jewish months (Eze. 39:12,13) between this day of destruction on Tishri 1 and the Second Advent on the following Nisan 1 (Eze. 29:17,21: Hos. 6:3). Jesus does not put his feet on Earth on the day of destruction. The Second Advent is not until Mt. 25:31: "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.

> > 27 & 28 speak about a COMING as the "lightning"(meaning in a moment,quickly) and mentions in verse 28 that "where the carcass (body of Christ) is there the eagles(church saints) will be GATHERED together."

The eagles are the Tribulation saints instead of the church saints. They are gathered and added to the Body of Christ that is already in Heaven. Mk. 13:27 says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN" (the Bride group that was taken up in the Pre-Trib Rapture.

> > THEN in the very next 2 verses Jesus says "Immediately after the Tribulation of those days...." and " Then shall appear the Son of Man.....COMING IN POWER AND GREAT GLORY."

You left out the word "sign." It is the Sign of the Son of Man, not the Second Advent. Mt. 24:29, 30 says, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days (at the end of this age as the Millennium is about to begin) shall the sun be darkened (6th seal, Rev. 6:12f), and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: then shall appear the SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." This is not the Second Advent. It is when he sends the angels to gather both the Bride group in Heaven and the rest of the Body of Christ from the Earth to the assembly in Heaven on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the Millennium.

The darkness starts as soon as the 6th seal is broken. The smoky atmosphere must be rolled back like a scroll so the people can see the Sign of the Son of Man (Rev. 6:12f). The day of the Second Advent is not a dark day. Zech. 14:5-7 says, "the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light."

> > NOTICE CAREFULLY THAT THE VERSES 27 & 28 DISCRIBE A COMING THAT COMES BEFORE THE TRIBULATION MENTIONED IN VERSE 29.

Mt. 24:27,28 says, "For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming (parousia, appearing) of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase (the Body of Christ) is, there will the eagles be gathered together." This is his appearing (the Sign of the Son of Man) when the Tribulation saints (high flying like eagles) will be gathered where the Body of Christ is (in Heaven). Isa. 40:31 says, "they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; THEY SHALL MOUNT UP WITH WINGS AS EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."

> > Also the describtion of the RELATIVELY NORMAL TIMES IN VERSES 38 ,39 could ONLY be BEFORE the Rapture.

I agree. Jesus changed the subject in Mt. 24:32. He had been talking about the last day of this age as the Millennium was about to start. Then he changed to when the Rapture is "near" (v. 33). The Second Advent is not until Mt. 25:31: "When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory.

> > Next in sequence is the parable of the sheep and the goats which is clearly at the 2nd coming in power

It is soon after the Second Advent on Nisan 1. I think it will be right after the 2520 days of the Tribulation. It seems that it is not shortened for the unbelievers and Satan, only for the believers that are raptured out of here just before the asteroids strike Earth. The 2520th day is Nisan 15 (Apr. 20 in 2008), the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Dominion will probably be taken away from Satan the next day. That is when I think Armageddon begins. It is Satan's last ditch stand.

> > First is the Rapture. Second is the judgement of the believers who have just been Raptured . Third is the judgement of the Gentile nations at the 2nd coming in Power.

I agree. The Judgment Seat of Christ seems to be on the 2300th Day of the Tribulation. It is the Feast of Trumpets that begins the Millennium. The 7 months of Eze. 39:12,13 fit between that Tishri 1 and the following Nisan 1, the Second Advent (Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3). The reason it is 7 months is because that year is a Jewish Leap Year. Agape

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www.ctst.com
UK Bank Gives Smart Cards To Corporate Customers
Lloyds TSB, one of the United Kingdomís four major commercial banks, is testing a smart card-based business-to-bank Internet security system called Key Online Banking with 150 business customers....

Japanese Banks Begin Their Migration to Smart Cards Several Japanese credit card issuers will begin issuing smart cards next month, beginning the conversion of Japanís 240 million magnetic-stripe credit cards to chip. Visa International officials estimate that 5% of the nationís credit cards will be reissued as smart cards this year, or 12 million cards....Japanese credit card issuers are moving to smart cards primarily to cut growing card fraud. Counterfeit credit cards fraud jumped 40% last year, say Visa officials. (3-6)

Electronic Money Test Expands in Japan A stored value smart card backed by a coalition of major Japanese companies is getting a broader test. Three am/pm convenience stores in Tokyo, part of a national chain of 1,100 stores nationwide, have begun distributing Edy chip cards to their customers....

Gemplus; IBM To Introduce Card Management System Gemplus International SA and the Global Services unit of IT giant IBM Corp. have announced they are working together on a card management system, hoping that multiapplication smart cards will catch on with issuers. Gemenos, France-based Gemplus believes banks will be among the first solid prospects for the system...

Italy Poised To Roll Out Chip-Based ID Cards The Italian government plans to start a rollout of chip-based citizen ID cards in 2002, following pilots in about 100 cities...

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Subject: Hallelujah!
P&C 714 regarding the sighting of barley made me soar in the Spirit.

We all can agree 100% now that every clue we can muster indicates that we are going to be redeemed before the end of Sunday May 27th, Jerusalem reckoning.

Indeed the LORD has told us all things. I am looking forward to spending eternity with both of you, and with all the other members of the Church. God Bless You

My reply

That would be nice. I'm ready. Sivan 6 begins at 6 PM on our May 27 and ends at 6 PM on our May 28. God Bless and agape

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you wrote...In 2001, April 15 is Nisan 22, not the day of a holy convocation, according to the Bible

it most assuredly is...it is the last day of pesach...the first and last days of pesach are to be a holy convocation.

Leviticus 23:5-8 The LORD'S Passover begins at twilight on the fourteenth day of the first month. On the fifteenth day of that month the LORD'S Feast of Unleavened Bread begins; for seven days you must eat bread made without yeast. On the first day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work. For seven days present an offering made to the LORD by fire. And on the SEVETH day hold a sacred assembly and do no regular work.'"

The seventh day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath that is commemorated with a "sacred assembly".

Exodus 12:14-17 "This is a day you are to commemorate; for the generations to come you shall celebrate it as a festival to the LORD--a lasting ordinance. For seven days you are to eat bread made without yeast. On the first day remove the yeast from your houses, for whoever eats anything with yeast in it from the first day through the seventh must be cut off from Israel. On the first day hold a sacred assembly, and another one on the seventh day.

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Re: When Will The Dead, Unrpentant Christian Be Raised from the Dead?
When do you think the DEAD, back slidden, unrepentant Christian will be raised from the dead? Is he raised from the dead with the dead in Christ at the resurrection-rapture while the ALIVE, unrepentant Christian goes through the tribulation to become repentant? Just wondering what you thought on the subject. In your opinion when would King Solomon being raised from the dead? He lost his first love for God and went after the other gods of his wives. If Abraham was one of the many saints that was raised from the dead after Christ's resurrection (Matthew 27:50-53), do you think these saints have a glorified body and went into heaven with Christ, or did they die again and await the future resurrection? Would they go to heaven in the resurrection of the dead in Christ because they believed in the promise of the Messiah? In Christ

My reply

> > When do you think the DEAD, back slidden, unrepentant Christian will be raised from the dead?

We are not told, but knowing that the Lord is fair is a guide. My guess is at the 2nd Rapture. I don't know about Solomon, but I wouldn't expect him to be in the Bride group.

> > do you think these saints have a glorified body and went into heaven with Christ, or did they die again and await the future resurrection?

I think they went to Heaven and will come back with Christ. They will get their resurrection bodies, then we will rise up "together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air" (I Thess. 4:17).

Heb. 11:40 says, "God having provided some better thing for us, that THEY WITHOUT US SHOULD NOT BE MADE PERFECT." Heb. 12:22-24 says, "ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the general assembly (festal assembly) and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the SPIRITS OF JUST MEN MADE PERFECT, And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant."

> > Would they go to heaven in the resurrection of the dead in Christ because they believed in the promise of the Messiah?

Yes. Broadly speaking, Old Testament saints were actually saved because they believed that the Messiah would come. NT saints are saved because we believe that Y'shua/Jesus is the Saviour that came. Agape

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