Pro and Con 719

Posted 3-28-01

Note: Please change my e-mail address in your address book to: mjagee@pe.net. I am quitting both pe and Juno.

My outgoing e-mail

I am going to have to quit Juno. I copied some of their new agreement below. I don't want to let them use my computer for math calculations.
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2.5. You expressly permit and authorize Juno to (i) download to your computer one or more pieces of software (the "Computational Software") designed to perform computations, which may be unrelated to the operation of the Service, on behalf of Juno (or on behalf of such third parties as may be authorized by Juno, subject to the Privacy Statement), (ii) run the Computational Software on your computer to perform and store the results of such computations, and (iii) upload such results to Juno's central computers during a subsequent connection, whether initiated by you in the course of using the Service or by the Computational Software as further described below. In connection with downloading and running the Computational Software, Juno may require you to leave your computer turned on at all times, and may replace the "screen saver" software that runs on your computer while the computer is turned on but you are not using it. The screen saver software installed by Juno, which may display advertisements or other images chosen by Juno, is an integral part of the Computational Software and you agree not to take any action to disable or interfere with the operation of either the screen saver software or any other component of the Computational Software. Juno may set different requirements for different subscribers with respect to the Computational Software (including without limitation whether use of the Computational Software is required and the volume of computations required to be performed) depending on service level or other factors we determine. You agree that, as between you and Juno, you shall be responsible for any costs or expenses resulting from the continuous operation of your computer, including without limitation any associated charges for electricity, and that you shall have sole responsibility for any maintenance or technical issues that might result from such continuous operation. You agree that, as between you and Juno, Juno shall have sole rights to the results of any computations performed by the Computational Software, including without limitation any revenues or intellectual property generated directly or indirectly as a result of such computations, without further compensation to you. If your usage of the Service is infrequent, Juno's ability to obtain the results of completed computations may be impaired. Consequently, you expressly permit and authorize Juno to initiate a telephone connection from your computer to Juno's central computers using a dial-in telephone number you have previously selected for accessing the Service; Juno agrees that it shall exercise such right only to the extent necessary, as determined in Juno's sole discretion, to upload the results of completed computations to Juno in a timely fashion; and you agree that, as between you and Juno, you shall be responsible for any costs and expenses (including without limitation any applicable telephone charges) resulting from the foregoing....

You acknowledge that your compliance with the requirements of this Section 2.5 may be considered by Juno to be an inseparable part of the Service

Incoming reply

THIS AGREEMENT IS TERRIBLE!!...

Incoming email

Re: Mideast
...about the Rabbis declaring this the time of Jacobs Trouble?!! Most serious and prophetic! They are not only following the script laid down by Jeremiah, but also that in Revelation
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BULLETIN: Orthodox and Hassidic Rabbonim Declare "Time of Jacob's Trouble"

At the Western Wall (March 22) and in yeshivas and synagogues and religious schools throughout Israel the sound of shofar blasts, the singing of Hebrew Psalms and cries and tears and wails of repentance were heard in response to a declaration by the Gedolei Yisrael (Great Ones of Israel) formally recognizing the beginning of the "time of Jacob's trouble."

It is considered highly significant that the declaration is signed by ALL 27 of the leading Orthodox and Chassidic sages, both he "maranan verabonon" (masters and teachers) and the "gedolei ha-Torah vehaChassidus (Torah sages among the Chassidut)."

The declaration begins and is formally designated: "IT IS A TROUBLED TIME FOR YA'ACOV BUT HE WILL BE SAVED."

If this is truly the "Time of Jacob's Troubles" then we are in the tribulation period. Time to put our house in order. Time to break up the fallow ground. Time to seek the Lord while He may yet be found. Sobering food for thought....

Watch and pray, more as soon as we have it, Barbara (Richmond)

Incoming email

Re: The time of Jacob's Trouble?
Orthodox and Hassidic Rabbonim Declare "Time of Jacob's Trouble"...

...an interesting post from Israel found on the Internet. Could this be a revelation to these Jewish religious leaders that we are indeed in that time prophesied by Jeremiah: "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it" (307)?

Most prophecy scholars believe that "the time of Jacob's trouble" is synonymous with either the 70th week of Daniel and/or the tribulation, and some believe we are in it already.

My reply

Looks like Israel is beginning to see the handwriting on the wall. Jer. 30:7 says, "Alas! for that day is great, so that none is like it: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it." Dan. 12:1,2 says, "at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." I think the time of Jacob's trouble is one day, the 2300th of the Tribulation, day of the 2nd Rapture, but many think it is the 3.5 year Great Tribulation. Others think it is the whole 70th week of Daniel 9:27 (i.e., the 7-year Tribulation. Whatever, it is closing in on us. The Tribulation will start with the confirmation of the peace treaty (Dan. 9:27) and we should be outta here by then. Agape

My reply

...Thanks. Looks like the Israelis might just be waking up. I wish they would all turn to the Lord before the Tribulation starts but even a fraction of that seems impossible. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Time of Jacob's trouble declared in Israel
No doubt by now you have heard reports that on March 22 in Israel religious officials declared the Time of Jacob's trouble to be now. If true, does this now mean they await their Messiah to rescue them? If so, it would be an opportune time for the AntiChrist to step forward and claim to be their Messiah. Also, I wonder if the ten day warning mentioned in the Book of Rev (about having trib. for 10 days) might apply to the March 22 date as its beginning. After all, declaring the Time of Jacob's trouble is formally saying that Israel is in a time of tribulation, although I think the real time of Jacob's trouble(the 70th week) is yet to really begin. Sincerely

My reply

The report said, "The declaration begins and is formally designated: "IT IS A TROUBLED TIME FOR YA'ACOV BUT HE WILL BE SAVED."" They study the Old Testament. There is no reason that they would not know that in spite of being attacked by Gog's united nations' army, the Lord will save Israel. That much is plain enough. It is stupid of the Arabs to think that they can drive Israel out. They will come out on the short end of the stick, and they don't know it. Why, since it all pre-written?

Isa. 28:1-13 shows us why, so the wicked will be snared and taken. First, it says, "the Lord hath a mighty and strong one (Christ), which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm, as A FLOOD OF MIGHTY WATERS OVERFLOWING, shall cast down to the earth with the hand." This is like Isa. 51:9: "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (Christ, Isa. 53:1); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (lit., split) Rahab (Satan's planet), and wounded the dragon?" (Satan). It is also like Isa. 22:17-19. It says, "the LORD...will surely violently turn and TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country (Iraq): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee (Satan) from thy station (on the flaming sword of Gen. 3:24), and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

There are 2 large asteroid pieces that impact Earth. The "aster" of Rev. 8:10 comes in burning and impacts Iraq destroying Babylon. The great "mountain" burning with fire of Rev. 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea (Zeph. 2:4,5; Eze. 38:20) and stops Gog's army. A tsunami, a flood of mighty waters shall overflow. Only 1/6th of his soldiers will survive (Eze. 39:2).

Isa. 28:5f says, In that day (1st day of the Millennium) shall the LORD of hosts (Christ) be for a crown of glory (it is Coronation Day), and for a diadem of beauty, unto the residue of his people, And for a spirit of judgment (the Judgment Seat of Christ is that day) to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate....Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts....To whom he said, This is the rest (the Millennium) wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing (year of refreshing the heavens and the Earth, 5768; 2007/2008): yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

The Bible is written so that only the wise will understand. We need the guidance of the Holy Spirit. We have to put like accounts together to see the big picture. There will be different details given in separated places, so the wicked will not understand (Dan. 12:10). It is much like dumping out puzzle pieces on the table. They all fit together so we can see the picture, but we have to put them all in place to see the whole thing. Revelation is an outline into which we can fit OT prophecies to get them in chronological order, but the unbeliever doesn't see that. The Jews do not, as a general rule, read the New Testament. Therefore, they are hindered from seeing the whole picture. They can only see parts.

I expect the 10 days of Rev. 2:10 to fit between Ascension Day and Pentecost.

Here is the way I see the time of Jacob's trouble. The 70th week of Daniel is the Tribulation. The Day of God's Wrath is the 2300th day. The OT calls it "THAT DAY" many times. It is the time of Jacob's trouble. Jer. 30:7 says, "Alas! for THAT DAY is great, so that NONE IS LIKE IT: it is even the TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE, but HE SHALL BE SAVED OUT OF IT." Dan. 12:1,2 says, "at that time (when the False Prophet comes to his end, Dan. 11:45) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture will take place that day. Those left in Israel will be born in a day that day (Isa. 66:8). Agape

Incoming email

I found (or rather, was led to) a splendid calendar that displays the Jewish/Hebrew calendar and the European/American calendar interlacedly. Perhaps you may find it useful. I hope to be a help by having sent this email to you.

Here's the link. And here's a prayer (in faith and in the Name of Jesus) that God will bless me by making it work for you the first time that you click it. God bless you. Your brother in Christ
http://www.tichnut.de/jewish/images/year.htm

My reply

Thanks. It is something many of us could use. Agape
(I am adding it to my link page.)

Incoming e-mail

I thought you'd enjoy this article on the Catholic view of the end-times and the rapture ...especially the last sentence. I found this on Spiritdaily.com and just couldn't resist seeing what their interpretation was. Boy, am I glad I woke up and left Catholicism! It's scary. And so many follow it simply out of tradition (like I did) because their family has just always been Catholic. No one bothers to really question the teachings I guess. Blessings to you & Ed. Agape
http://e3mil.com/vm/index.asp?vm_id=6&art_id=1705

My reply

Thanks. There are differences in what we believe about the end times. Here are a few excerpts. Get the rest of the story at the above URL. My comments follow.
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Catholics and the Rapture, by Carl Olson

3/20/01 - Eschatology, the study of the "last things," flows directly from ecclesiology, the doctrine of the Church. This accounts for significant differences between what Catholics and Fundamentalists believe about the end times....

While Catholics do not believe in a secret Rapture, we do believe in the Second Coming...

From the Catholic perspective the term "Rapture" is problematic. On one hand it can refer to being "caught up" to Christ (1 Thess. 4:17), which we believe will happen at the Second Coming. On the other hand, the term is basically owned by Dispensationalists. When used in popular discourse it almost always refers to the secret snatching away of "true believers," usually before the Tribulation, and always prior to and distinct from the Second Coming...

What happens to Israel in the Catholic understanding of End Time events? The Church's one explicit teaching on this matter is that: "[t]he glorious Messiah's coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by 'all Israel', for 'a hardening has come upon part of Israel' in their 'unbelief' toward Jesus."...

The Church does say a bit more about a time of Tribulation, teaching that there will be a time of great trial; however, we do not know when it will occur or how long it will last. The Catechism states that "Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. ...This time of trial will be at the start of the last days...

"For, of course, all that has been said about the manner of interpreting Scripture is ultimately subject to the judgement of the Church which exercises the divinely conferred commission and ministry of watching over and interpreting the Word of God."
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From Marilyn: Rom. 11:25 says, "blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in." The gathering of the Gentiles precedes Israel's acceptance of Christ.

If we thought that we had to wait until all Israel came to accept Christ, we might wait too long to get ready and get caught without enough oil of the Holy Spirit in our vessels (bodies) with our lamps.

According to this article, even the Tribulation seems off in the distant future sometime. Olson says, "we do not know when it will occur or how long it will last." I get the feeling that he has no idea that it is near. Not believing in a Pre-Trib Rapture, and not thinking that the Tribulation is near, could lead to one's being caught unaware. People need to study their Bibles for themselves. Agape

Incoming email

FWD: Re: HOW TO ESCAPE THE GREAT TRIBULATION!!!
Dear friends:
The Lord Jesus wants us to be escapists. Really! In fact, He commanded us to be. Let me explain how you can be assured escape from the Great Tribulation.

After describing the horrible events of the Tribulation, Jesus exhorted: “WATCH ye therefore, and PRAY always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man” (Luke 21:36).

This verse makes many sincere Christians nervous and uncertain because they are afraid they will not be accounted worthy to “escape.” However, in this verse there are three key prerequisites to escaping, and all are based on FAITH:

1. WATCH. If you are watching for the Lord’s return, you pass the first step. All non-Christians and many Christians are not watching. Those who are sincerely watching are relatively few. Watching is an act of FAITH -- faith in Jesus’ promise to return and in His Word, which describes the signs.

2. PRAY. Pray what? Pray to be accounted worthy. Problem: We know ourselves and see the remaining flaws. As long as we see one single flaw, doubt can have opportunity to torment us, which is not of God. We know we will never be worthy in ourselves, because we know that in our flesh “dwelleth no good thing” (Romans 7:18). Even Paul said he was not perfect (Philippians 3:12). Solution: By FAITH, agree with God’s Word, and “be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the FAITH of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by FAITH” (Philippians 3:9).

3. BELIEVE. We know that it is God’s will that we pray to escape. We also know “This is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we WE KNOW THAT WE HAVE the petitions that we desired of him” (1 John 5:14-15). Jesus also promised: “What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, BELIEVE that ye receive them, and ye shall have them” (Mark 11:24).

If you do this, if God's Word is true, you will escape. And God's Word is true.

Like salvation and everything else we receive from God, it is not based on us nor on our performance. It is all based on Him and our FAITH. Those who depend on their own worthiness for salvation will not make it. Those who depend on their own worthiness for escape will not make it. Depending on our own worthiness for anything is an offense to the cross.

God would say to us to fear not the things coming upon the earth, but WATCH, PRAY, BELIEVE and RECEIVE. Jim

My reply

> > Like salvation and everything else we receive from God, it is not based on us nor on our performance. It is all based on Him and our FAITH. Those who depend on their own worthiness for salvation will not make it.

We are saved by faith, but we can work for rewards. There are things we should add to our faith. II Peter 1:4-11 says, "given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE (the Holy Spirit), having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, ADD TO YOUR FAITH virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind (like the Laodiceans), and CANNOT SEE AFAR OFF (Heaven), and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins (when he first accepted Christ and was saved). Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your CALLING AND ELECTION sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall."

Rev. 17:14 says, " they that are with him (Christ) are CALLED, and CHOSEN, and FAITHFUL." Mt. 22:14 says, "many are CALLED, but few are CHOSEN." That is the parable where the man without a wedding garment was cast outside the doors. V. 13 says, "there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."

Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (2300 days of the shortened Tribulation) with the UNBELIEVERS." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."

Let's do everything we can to be sure that we are CHOSEN. I think that among the foolish virgins and the Laodiceans will be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH" when they are cast outside the door. Won't the Laodiceans weep when they are spued out of Christ's mouth? (Rev. 3:16). We can't work for salvation. It is a free gift. However, we can work for rewards. We can run the race to win the PRIZE of the HIGH CALLING OF GOD in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:14). I think that is the Pre-Trib Rapture.

To hear Christ say, "Come up hither" is the prize I am working for. If we don't hear "Come up hither," we could be castaways, although the Lord will take care of those that literally can't hear. I Cor. 9:27, Paul said, "I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." We want to be able to say with Paul, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith" (II Tim. 4:7). Agape

Incoming email

Subject: The Rapture
I hope everything with you and Ed are fine. I was wondering if you have any other possible dates for the Rapture other than May 28, 2001-- if it doesn't happen then. I know we have to be in the general time frame of the rapture due to everything that is happening now in the world. I have read a lot of books on end-time prophecy, and most writers believe it will happen on Rosh Hashanah some year. After reading Lev. 25:9, I always thought it could happen on Yom Kippur. I know you believe in two Raptures and I also see how you say it will happen in Spring due to the Song of Solomon.

I dreamed of the Rapture a couple of years ago. My father appeared to me and my family in a dream. I must have been in Alabama, because my mother was in the dream, along with my two brothers that live there. I currently live in Texas with my husband and son. When my dad appeared, we were all astonished to see him and said, "Daddy, it's you"! He said, don't be afraid, it's time to go, and then someone spoke up and said that Daddy had not seen my son yet. We all went in to wake him up and my dad stood far back holding a lantern. He said he didn't want to frighten my son. Then he said, "Don't be afraid, I'm going to tell you exactly what they told me. It's a beautiful place there, it's different from this place, but you are really going to like it there. We all got dressed, walked out the front door and the next thing I remember were clouds, faded moons (as the moon looks during the day) and then I saw an archway, with beautiful designs. As we are going through this gate, I suddenly woke up! I must have cried for a least 15 minutes. I now wonder if this is the way it will happen. I took a harder look at 1 Thes. 4:17, where it says, Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. If they do appear to us first and then we are caught up, this reminds me of the saints in the Bible that appeared to many after they came out of their graves. I guess they were the firstfruits of the resurrection along with Jesus.

I only started reading books on Bible Prophecy after my fathers death in 1995. I now have over 200 books, most of them are about end-time events. Boy, did the Lord wake me up in his timing. He always manifest's Himself, in due season and not before because it would be too hard for us to bear. I've never trusted Him more than I do now, even though I was saved as a young teenager.

Keep up the good work, no matter when He appears. I can just hear Him saying, Well done, my faithful servant! Isn't it nice to know, He becomes your Father, when you lose your earthly dad. My dad was the best, so I guess since Christ lived in my dad, he showed me a partial view of my heavenly Father thru his life. Daddy really knew the Lord! I can't even imagine seeing Jesus face to face-- what a day that will be!

My reply

We are ok....

That was a great dream. It would be nice if our loved ones that have gone to Heaven could come get us, but I can't think of another scripture that would back it up. We might have a better chance to meet them in the air, but whenever it is, it will be wonderful.

I don't have another time I think likely for the Rapture. I try to consider other times, but I always find something that seems to bring me right back to Pentecost. It isn't just Song of Solomon, either.

Isa. 18:3-6 sounds like late spring. It says, "All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign (flag) on the mountains (nations, i.e., the One World Government); and when he bloweth a trumpet (the "trump of God," I Thess. 4:16), hear ye. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider (nabat, see, look at) in my dwelling place (Heaven) like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest (wheat harvest, i.e., Pentecost). For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower (end of May or early June), he shall both cut off the sprigs (with no fruit) with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches (with no fruit). They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth (Rev. 13): and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them."

When they went in to spy out the promised land, it was "the time of the firstripe grapes" (Nu. 13:20). Job 5:24 says, "thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and thou shalt VISIT THY HABITATION, and shalt not sin."

Yes, what a day that will be. Agape

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