Pro and Con 729

Posted 4-10-01

UNITED NATIONS BODY BACKS PALESTINIAN STATE April 9, 2001 Haaretz - The United Nations Commission on Human Rights passed a resolution on Friday supporting the establishment of a sovereign and independent Palestinian state based on the Palestinian people's right to self-determination.

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Please pray for my Mother, La Rue Harrison. She had been diagnosed with six ruptured discs in her back about six weeks ago, when she blacked out and fell. This afternoon I was told she also has terminal, inoperable cancer. The doctors have given her anywhere from two days to two weeks to live.

This has been a real blow, as two months ago she was an active, energetic, eighty-one year old senior who was never, never ill.

Please ask the Lord, if not for healing, for relief from the excruciating pain during the time she has left.

May the Lord bless you for the works you have done, and continue to do. In Christ

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The rapture seems to come before the First horseman (the AntiChrist) is released. In my opinion, after the rapture is when he brings forth the confirmation of Dan.9:27 treaty and the official beginning of tribulation. Therefore, I think that there will be a period of time between the rapture and the start of the tribulation--one long enough for the anti-Christ to bring his temporary peace. Maybe a month or more--could be less--just a guess. Sincerely

My reply

I thought there would be a gap too. However, we may be caught up before but on the same day that the covenant is confirmed. That is the way the 2nd Rapture seems. I think it is on the Day of God's wrath, but before the asteroids strike Earth at noon (Zech. 2:4,5). Agape

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FWD: 'Lost' asteroid could hit Earth, by Geraint Smith
At least one potentially dangerous asteroid is being discovered every night and the rate is increasing rapidly.

More than 300 asteroids with orbits that cross Earth's were found last year, and this year the discoveries are coming faster, Dr Duncan Steel of the University of Salford will tell the National Astronomy Meeting in Cambridge later this week.

However, even more worrying may be one that has gone missing.

"One, in particular, we need to find. It was seen for only 10 days in 1998, and it looked as though it might be on a potential collision course within the next 30 years.

"However, it was not seen for long enough to calculate the orbit to know for certain."

The object, known as 1998 OX 4, is about half a mile across, he said. "If it hit San Francisco, California would cease to exist. If it hit London, much of England would cease to exist."

My reply

Thanks. This makes us realize how extensive the damage can be. I would sure hate to be an unbeliever left on Earth when the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth. The first day of the millennial Day of the Lord is the Day of God's Wrath. Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come."

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Re: Time of Jacob's Trouble
On your Pro and Con 719, several people e-mailed you regarding the time of Jacob's trouble being declared in Israel on March 22.

It said the Orthodox and Hassidic Rabbonim declare the "Time of Jacob's Trouble"....started on March 22. Can you tell me where they read this on the internet or was it on the news?

I hope you and Ed are doing fine, and thanks so much for your answer to my questions regarding the timing of the rapture.

Over six months ago, I felt I heard the Lord speak...The Valley of Jehoshaphat, Watch and Pray, as I was awaking in the middle of the night. It really got my attention, so I looked it up in the Bible and found in Joel 3: 11.....Assemble yourselves, and come, all ye heathen, and gather yourselves together round about: thither cause thy mighty ones to come down, O Lord. Joel 3:12...Let the heathen be wakened, and come up to the valley of Jehoshaphat: for there will I sit to judge all the heathen round about.

How far into the tribulation does this event happen? Also, do you believe the tribulation has begun, or do you believe the church is raptured first? I myself have always believed in the pre-trib rapture, but now I'm beginning to wonder.

Also, check out this, on Jacob's Trouble and Israel's Peace, at I found it pretty interesting.

My reply

We are ok. I don't know where you can find "Time of Jacob's Trouble" now. Maybe someone will know. However, I think I saw it on the Internet, maybe on Koenig's World Watch Daily.

> > "from the point at which Jesus began His ministry (around 30 AD) until Jerusalem was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD was a period of 40 years." (quoted from Jason's Trouble and Israel's Peace, by Jason Seders.

I liked Jason's article. I place the Crucifixion in 30 AD, though. I also think this age has 7 good years and 7 bad years since the Oslo Accords were signed. One type is Jacob working 7 years for Leah (1st bride) and another 7 for Rachel (2nd bride). The other type is the 7 good years and the 7 bad years when Joseph was in Egypt.

I agree that one wife is a type of the wise virgins. They will be caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture. I also agree that Jacob's other wife represents the Tribulation saints. They will be caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture. The first Rapture is probably on the day the Tribulation starts, probably the Feast of Weeks/Pentecost in 2001. I think the second Rapture is probably on the 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation.

> > How far into the tribulation does this event happen?

I think Joel 3:13-16 is talking about last day of this age and then the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord on the 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:13,14). Joel 3:13-16 is talking about the last day of this age. It says, "Put ye in the sickle (as in Rev. 14:18), for the harvest is ripe: come, get you down; for the press is full, the fats overflow; for their wickedness is great. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the day of the LORD is near (the Millennium begins the next day) in the valley of decision. The sun and the moon shall be darkened, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel."

> > do you believe the tribulation has begun, or do you believe the church is raptured first

I think the Pre-Trib Rapture is before the Tribulation begins. Agape

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Fwd: Pesach Pilgrimage and Omer Offering to the God of Israel
you may have already read this latest notice from the Temple Mount Faithful in Jerusalem, written by their leader, Gershon Salomon. Towards the end of the notice, in which Gershon tells of the movement's intention to offer the omer on the morning of April 10th, he calls on the government of Israel to open the Eastern Gate, spiritually and physically, to prepare for the entrance through it of Mashiach ben David, who is coming to redeem Israel. As I can recall, this is the first call to open the Eastern Gate, and this hit me as prophetically significant, and one more marker that the return of our Lord is close, close, close. Hope you and family are well. Looking up, watching, and praying always to be accounted worthy
Pesach Pilgrimage and Omer Offering to the Gd of Israel on the Temple Mount

On the third day of Pesach, 17th Nisan (Tuesday 10th April, 2001), The Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement will hold their annual Pesach Pilgrimage to the Temple Mount and will bring the Omer offering (the first wheat from the fields of Israel. The offering will be cut from the fields of Israel and will be carried by the pilgrims as an offering to the Gd of Israel exactly as was done in the time of the First and Second Temples according to the Word of Gd in the Torah:

"And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, Speak to the people of Israel, and say to them, When you come to the land which I give to you, and shall reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the first fruits of your harvest to the priest; And he shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you; on the next day after the sabbath the priest shall wave it....

The Pesach sacrifice was, perhaps, the most important and exciting sacrifice throughout the history of Israel. It expressed the saving of Israel from Egypt by Gd and Israel becoming one nation, the nation of Gd. According to the Word of Gd in the Torah, this sacrifice was to be an eternal sacrifice. It was to be made by every individual or family on the evening of the 14th day of Nisan on the altar in the temple and be eaten in a special gathering and ceremony which is held by families or groups called a Seder. It had to eaten before midnight on the night of the Seder. It had to be eaten only on the Temple Mount or in Jerusalem. ...

In Jewish tradition, the month of Nisan is called the month of redemption. This tradition holds that Israel was redeemed in Nisan at Pesach and they will again be redeemed in Nisan at Pesach. Every year the Jewish people prayed and expected to be redeemed again in this month. Our prayers follow this month for a complete redemption of Israel, for the rebuilding of the temple and the coming of Mashiach ben David....

The Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement has renewed the Pesach sacrifice in the life of Israel over the last 3 years. As we could not perform this very holy sacrifice on the Temple Mount because of the situation, we decided in any case to perform it on a hill overlooking the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and to open a new era in the life of Israel and to take the first step for the sacrifice of the Pesach sacrifice in the place where it should be done according to the Word of Gd, on the Temple Mount. Every year we do our best to perform this sacrifice on the Temple Mount and only when we cannot perform it there do we hold in on the hill of Hannaniah where the high priest used to live in biblical times. We always remember the tradition which started after the destruction of the temple that once the Pesach sacrifice is again performed for the first time on the Temple Mount it will open the door for the complete redemption of the temple, the rebuilding of the temple and the coming of Mashiach ben David. It is not a mystical tradition but a very practical one. Its meaning is very clear: once Israel trusts in Gd and is emboldened to fulfil His expectations of her in these prophetic end-times in which we are now living, then the Temple Mount will be liberated by Israel, and with it, Jerusalem, the land and all the people of Israel. Israel's return in all faithfulness to the Temple Mount, the Gd of Israel and His values, will open a new era when all the enemies of Israel will be defeated and the land and people of Israel will be free. We trust and know in the Word of Gd that the destiny of Israel and even of all the world depends on and is connected to this holy hill of Gd where He dwells among His people, Israel. Even the desire of the enemies and the nations to take the promised land away from Israel will pass away. Gd says this to Israel very clearly in Exodus...

The Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement have made every effort to perform the Pesach sacrifice this year on the Temple Mount. However, because of the situation in Israel the Israeli authorities have again not allowed us to do so on the Temple Mount. Again they showed their weakness and their fear of the Arabic reaction and the reaction of the great powers. But we shall never give up. We know and believe that it cannot be stopped for much longer and soon the gates of the Temple Mount will be open to the Pesach sacrifice and the rebuilding of the temple. nobody can prevent the godly process of the redemption of the people and land of Israel.

This year the 14th day of Nisan falls on Shabbat. For this reason that we cannot even perform the sacrifice outside the Temple Mount on the hill of Hannaniah. On a Shabbat the sacrifice can only be performed on the Temple Mount and in the temple.

In order not to miss this godly event, we decided to perform the Pesach sacrifice on the 14th day of the following month, Iyar (7th May). On the 15th day of Iyar, according to the commandment of Gd there is a second Pesach for those who could not observe it on the original date because he was unclean or on a journey...

As we said, on the 10th April at 9:30 AM The Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement will march to the Temple Mount for the pilgrimage and to bring the omer as an offering to the Gd of Israel. We shall also pray the holiday prayers and swear faithfulness to the Gd of Israel, to His holy mountain, to Jerusalem and to the land of Israel. Our statement will be that we shall not allow the Temple Mount, the heart of the Israeli nation, to fall again. It will also be a march of sovereignty and loyalty with the blowing of shofars. We shall also demonstrate asking that the barbaric destruction of the holy remains of the First and Second Temples be immediately stopped and that they not be allowed to steal any of the remains from the holy temples. On the Temple Mount in front fo the Gd and people of Israel we shall renew the eternal covenant between Gd, Israel and the promised land. Then we shall march around the walls of the Temple Mount and blow the shofars exactly as Joshua ben Nun did at Jericho in order to bring down the walls of hatred against the Gd and people of Israel. We shall specially march to the Eastern Gate (Sha'ar haRachamim or Mercy Gate) where we shall demand of the Israeli Government that this holy gate be opened spiritually and physically and with it the way for Mashiach ben David, to purify the Temple Mount from the pagan presence and worship, to rebuild the temple and to fly the flag of the Gd and people of Israel over it. We shall state that we shall never move again from this most holy place of Israel.

My reply

It's good to hear from you. Thanks. I hadn't seen this one, and hadn't heard anything about their wanting to open the Eastern Gate. That is a surprise. I wonder why.

Eze. 44:1-3 says, "Then he brought me back the way of the gate of the outward sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut. Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall be shut, it shall not be opened, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, the God of Israel, hath entered in by it, therefore it shall be shut. It is for the prince; the prince, he shall sit in it to eat bread before the LORD; he shall enter by the way of the porch of that gate, and shall go out by the way of the same."

They said, "This tradition holds that Israel was redeemed in Nisan at Pesach and they will again be redeemed in Nisan at Pesach." How they can say this and not see that it happened is beyond me. They even mentioned, "these prophetic end-times in which we are now living." Why doesn't the whole picture fall in place for them? Oh how I wish it would. Another thing that surprised me was their plan to offer wheat. I thought the sheaf on Firstfruits was barley.

We're ok....Agape

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Re: I heard an interview an NPR
* Exodus 8:8: Then Pharaoh called for Moses and Aaron, and said, "Intreat JEHOVAH, that he may take away the frogs from me, and from my people; and I will let the people go, that they may do sacrifice unto JEHOVAH."...And he (Moses) said, Be it according to thy word: that thou mayest know that there is none like unto JEHOVAH our God."

* Deuteronomy4:35: Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that JEHOVAH he is God; there is none else beside him. 36: Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.37: And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt;...JEHOVAH he is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else....

* 2 Samuel 7:20:...22:Wherefore thou art great, O JEHOVAH: for there is none like thee, neither is there any God beside thee, according to all that we have heard with our ears.

* 1 Kings 8:57:...keep his commandments, and his statutes, and his judgments, which he commanded our fathers.59: And let these my words, wherewith I have made supplication before JEHOVAH, be nigh unto JEHOVAH our God day and night, that he maintain the cause of his servant, and the cause of his people Israel at all times, as the matter shall require: 60: That all the people of the earth may know that JEHOVAH is God, and that there is none else. 61: Let your heart therefore be perfect with JEHOVAH our God, to walk in his statutes, and to keep his commandments, as at this day.

* Isaiah 43: 9: Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. 10:Ye are my witnesses, saith JEHOVAH, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.11: I, even I, am JEHOVAH; and beside me there is no saviour....

* Isaiah 44: 6: Thus saith JEHOVAH the King of Israel, and his redeemer JEHOVAH of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God....

* Isaiah 46:9: Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me...

* Hosea 13:...4: Yet I am JEHOVAH thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me....

My reply

I don't think they used much of the interview. The pain I had lived with so many years is better just lately. I finally have 2 prescription medicines that actually help and are not just pain pills. Thank you Lord, and thanks to the people that helped me. (My back is not pain free, but I don't walk crooked when I first get up, and I don't have to put a cold pack on it when I first sit down at my computer. That's significant improvement.)

There are 2 main ways to transliterate YHVH. Jehovah or Yahweh. In most places in the KJV, the translators used "LORD" for YHVH and "Lord" for Adonai.

> > Deuteronomy4:35: Unto thee it was shewed, that thou mightest know that JEHOVAH he is God; there is none else beside him. 36: Out of heaven he made thee to hear his voice, that he might instruct thee: and upon earth he shewed thee his great fire; and thou heardest his words out of the midst of the fire.37: And because he loved thy fathers, therefore he chose their seed after them, and brought thee out in his sight with his mighty power out of Egypt.

Do you know who YHVH/Jehovah really is? In the above, we can see that he was the one that spoke to Moses at Sinai." Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHVH) the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD (YHVH) of hosts; I am the first (YHVH, King of Israel), AND I am the last (YHVH the redeemer, the YHVH of hosts, Jesus Christ); and beside me there is no God."

Isa. 48:12,13,17,18 says, "I am he; I am the first (YHVH King of Israel), I ALSO am the last (YHVH the redeemer, YHVH of hosts, Jesus Christ). Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together...Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I (YHVH of hosts, Christ): and now the Lord GOD (1), and his Spirit (2), hath sent me (3. YHVH of hosts, Christ). Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer (YHVH of hosts, Christ), the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD (YHVH) thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to MY COMMANDMENTS!" YHVH of hosts, the Pre-incarnate Christ, gave us the commandments at Sinai.

> > Hos. 13: 4: Yet I am JEHOVAH thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour besides me. 5: I did know thee in the wilderness, in the land of great drought. 6: According to their pasture, so were they filled; they were filled, and their heart was exalted; therefore have they forgotten me. 7: Therefore I will be unto them as a LION

Did you see the Blood Moon as it appeared over Jerusalem 1-9-01? It is on my Home page. There was the face of a lion cub on it. That cub will be a full-grown lion by 2008, when I think YHVH of hosts, Jesus Christ, will return. He is the lion of the tribe of Judah. Rev. 5:5 says, "THE LION OF THE TRIBE OF JUDAH, the Root of David (YHVH of hosts, the Pre-incarnate Christ), hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof."

YHVH is both the root (YHVH king of Israel) and the offspring of David (Jesus). In Rev. 22:16, Jesus Christ says, "I am the root AND the offspring of David." In Rev. 1:8, he says, "I am Alpha AND Omega, the beginning AND the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), THE ALMIGHTY." Agape

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Re: I heard an interview an NPR
Well, then, Praise JHVH the father, JHVH the son, and JHVH the spirit.

My reply

Amen. The Old Testament and the New Testament agree. Mt.28:19 says, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (one name) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Agape

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I am fed daily by your Web Site and I love how you feed God's people with persistent compassion as you try to open their eyes and ears to God's restoration and redemption plan. Your past several P/Cs you have been under attack by a couple of 'FAITH' preachers (I use that term loosely). They seem to be operating under an "...another gospel...", which is "...not another...", but a perverted (or changed gospel, Galatians 1:6-7) in their understanding of God's whole Word. In the day and hour that we are living, there are many messages going forth in the realm of that which calls itself Christendom, or the Church of Jesus Christ. There is one true gospel, and untold thousands of perverted messages. Some are so far fetched that one would think no one could possible be deceived by them. However, I can see by following your web site that people are deceived by apostasy within the Body of Christ. Others are much more subtle, missing the mark only slightly, thus deceiving many; for no matter how slight the change, the truth and power of the gospel is destroyed.

In comfort I offer you the scripture in II Thessalonians 2:10-12 that all those that "...receive not the love of the truth..." shall be deceived, no matter how simple and gullible or how wise and / or knowledgeable they are. Nevertheless, I know there are some that love the truth, and are overwhelmed by the flood that spews daily from the mouth of the dragon (Revelation 12:15, by his "...ministers...," II Corinthians 11:14-15). May the Lord God grant you an unending discernment, agape' love, strength, and compassion in correcting your readers lack of understanding and/or error of the Scriptures, especially when it comes to the differences between Salvation and the Rapture doctrine. The way I see the condition of the church is that the majority of saints simply never understood the sin atonement message and are for the most part running around either without a wedding gown, or, their garments are spotted by their flesh. We don't go through the New Jerusalem Gate with spotted garments. Our garments must be made ready. Christ did His part and more. He gave us freedom from sin. We now must do our part and wash our garments. Why, some of us so called Christendom saints simply ain't been saved, converted, filled with the spirit, ect. They continue to simply choose to sin by partaking of "...the tree of the knowledge of good and evil..." instead of choosing / partaking of "...the tree of life..." with a "...whole heart...." We have given mental assent to God's Word but we lack a true and pure repentant (changed) heart to do God's will. No, it is much more than thinking that one has faith, it is the evidence of our fruit or the cleanliness of our garments that will bear witness against us. Salvation is one thing, but in an instant (the twinkling of an eye) to stand before Him when called is another. We must be made ready for "...the time is at hand..."

To all those 'FAITH' preachers, "...Thou hast faith, and I have works: show me thy faith without thy works, and I will show thee my faith by my works" (James 2:18). To all those called by His Name who claim to live by FAITH (TRUST) in God's Word, I John 3:6 says, "Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him". The best part is I John 1:8-9 where we are given in part, a remedy to getting ourselves ready. It reads, "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness". This Passover would be a start in accepting in spirit and in truth what was accomplished on that tree of life. We need to be real partakers of that blood covenant by doing (works) our part of His redemption plan (Revelation, Chapter 2 and 3).

In closing, Marilyn, I wasn't preaching to you. If you chose to publish this maybe, just maybe someone will work out their own salvation and their order of rapture with humble prayer, fear, and trembling. As a faith preacher (student of E.W.KENYON), I apologize for their behavior and pray that someday they will try reading the Old Testament for a more complete understanding of God's Word and the work that He is trying to accomplish in our hearts...only if we (the church) will let Him.

Agape'...Baruch Ha Shem v'Shalom!

P.S. Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepard of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant, make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well-pleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ; to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen. (Hebrews 13:21-22, KJV)

My reply

I appreciate your kind words. I have hopes for one, but here is what I got from the other. "Hello Marilyn, I chuckled when I got your letter and thought. She might as well quit pounding away about the split rapture to me because I won't ever believe it. Don't get mad. I'm laughing." It is not a really a good idea to say "I won't ever believe it" lest one be proved wrong on down the line. I am different. I am always seeking to understand one more thing in the Bible. I'll change my view in a split second if I can see that Scripture indicates otherwise. I let Scripture adjust my view. Agape

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Re: Worthy?
I found this pretty good about being WORTHY to make the Rapture escape!!

Makes me want to try harder to live a Holy and pure life, as we are instructed to live lives of integrity(Ps 25:21, Ps 26:11). We can count on the BLOOD for salvation, but we have to WORK for the GREAT ESCAPE! AMEN

My reply

Thanks. Here is a good point the writer made: "In Revelation 3:4, we see that the Church of Sardis had a FEW members who stood out from the rest. Overall, the Church of Sardis was dead; but it did have a FEW who were found WORTHY. They were found WORTHY because they had not defiled their garments." Agape

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