Pro and Con 735

Posted 4-19-01

Not only does the Moon have a sodium tail, the Earth has a different kind of tail.
The first large-scale pictures of the hidden machinations of the Earth's magnetic force-field are now available, including confirmation of a suspected but previously invisible "tail" of electrified gas.

The tail, which streams from Earth towards the Sun, was spotted by NASA's Imager for Magnetopause to Aurora Global Exploration (IMAGE) spacecraft and is featured on the cover of the Jan. 26 issue of the journal Science....

Larger picture:
Major solar flare erupts BY SPACEFLIGHT NOW 4-16-01 - A massive solar flare erupts from the surface of the Sun as seen by the Soho observatory's Extreme-ultraviolet Imaging Telescope on Easter Sunday. Photo: ESA/NASA

One of the largest solar flares ever recorded erupted from the sun's surface at around 1350 GMT on Sunday. The powerful flare, which sent a shower of high energy protons into space, was fortunately not directed at Earth....

Sunday's flare is the fourth most powerful on record. After more detailed analysis the flare might rival the record-toping solar eruption on April 2 this year, according to an update on the Soho project's website.
The water crisis is apparently worse than originally feared, and Water Commissioner Shimon Tal has called for "cuts in everything." An updated estimate of available potable water for the year 2001 shows that Israel has 475 million cubic meters of water less than it needs to meet its water requirements - 20% worse than previous estimates. This past March was the driest March in over 40 years. Water experts in the north forecast that many water sources in the north will dry up this summer, and that there will be water shortages in many areas of the country. Tal said that he hopes the government will authorize his recommendations on water saving and consumption cutbacks.
It is interesting that they mentioned 40 years. Forty years from when Israel grew leaves (Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, Sinai, West Bank) and regained the temple area in the Six-Day War of 1967 is 2007. I think the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord will be Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007).

Incoming e-mail

From 5doves site. Testimony, Janet Conrad (12 Apr)

My reply

That passage INDIRECTLY applies to the Pre-Trib Rapture, because the 1st Rapture is before the Tribulation. However, Isa. 26:20,21 DIRECTLY applies to the 2nd Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture. This passage mentions "THE INDIGNATION," which is "THE DAY OF THE LORD'S VENGEANCE."

Isa. 34:1-10 says, "COME NEAR, YE NATIONS, TO HEAR; AND HEARKEN, YE PEOPLE: LET THE EARTH HEAR, AND ALL THAT IS THEREIN; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the INDIGNATION OF THE LORD is upon ALL NATIONS, and his fury upon all their armies (Eze. 38): he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter.... For it is THE DAY OF THE LORD'S VENGEANCE, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion. (probably Tishri 1, 5768; Sept. 13, 2007) And the streams thereof shall be turned into pitch, and the dust thereof into brimstone, and the land thereof shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night nor day; the smoke thereof shall go up for ever: from generation to generation it shall lie waste; none shall pass through it for ever and ever."

To me, it looks like Isa. 18:3-6 applies to the Pre-Trib Rapture and the foolish servants who are left behind and Isa. 26:20,21 applies to the Pre-Wrath Rapture. After the 1st Rapture comes the Tribulation. After the 2nd Rapture comes Isa. 27:1: "In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword (the binary asteroid, the flaming sword that turns every way in Gen. 3:24) shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent (that goes into the False Prophet, the 7th head of the great red dragon), even leviathan that crooked serpent (Satan, the 'eighth' of Rev. 17:11); and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea" (nations, Rev. 17:15).

The information from Isa. 18:3 to Isa. 34:17 applies, not only to Israel, but to the whole world. Isa. 18:3 starts off with "All ye inhabitants of the world. Isa. 34:1 starts off with, "Come near, ye nations, to hear."

Isa. 18:3-6 seems to apply to the Pre-Trib Rapture, when SOME are cut off (Luke 12:46; Mt. 24:51). Isa. 26:20,21 seems to apply to the Pre-Wrath Rapture, when NONE are cut off.

Isa. 18:3-6 says, "ALL YE INHABITANTS OF THE WORLD, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign (flag, i.e., the OWG or UN flag) on the mountains (nations); and when HE BLOWETH A TRUMPET (the first "trump of God," I Thess. 4:16), hear ye. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider (nabat, see, look at) in my dwelling place (Heaven) like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of HARVEST (probably Pentecost, when some are left behind). For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower (latter part of May or early June), he shall both cut off the sprigs (i.e., with no fruit) with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches (twigs with no fresh growth or fruit). THEY SHALL BE LEFT together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts (2 beasts of Rev. 13) of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them (after the spring Rapture comes summer), and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them."

See what you think. Agape

Incoming email

i have been reading your postings for about a month now and have enjoyed it. recently i have came across a web site, it brings up some very good questions, and has me confused. both views can't be right. if you have a chance and the spirit willing check it out and maybe you can answer her questions. they will post your response. the website is thanks.

My reply

Excerpts plus my comments marked with ***.
Letter of Warning, by Sheila Lewis Busby

Many Christians have been taught that they will be raptured out before the great tribulation begins, but does the Bible really teach that?

***Definitely. Luke 21:34-36 says, "take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day (of the Pre-Trib Rapture) come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

***Rev. 3:10 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM (ek, out of) the hour of temptation (peirasmou, trial), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

***Isa. 57:1-3 says, "merciful men are taken away (acaph, to be gathered, removed, taken up), none considering that the righteous (wise virgins with enough oil of the Holy Spirit) is taken away (acaph, taken up) FROM the evil to come. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness. But draw NEAR hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore." The Tribulation is "near."

There is definitely a rapture (1 Cor 15:51-52 and 1 Thes 4:16-17) and we, born-again Christians, will definitely be raptured out before God's wrath commences (1 Thes 5:9), but what is the sequence of events during the endtimes?...

It seems that Paul associates the rapture with the beginning of the "day of the Lord"... rapture then wrath!...

***There is a Pre-Wrath Rapture, but, there is also a Pre-Trib Rapture. The 1st Rapture is before the Tribulation. The 2nd Rapture is on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, but before the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5).

***Before the Tribulation, those who are ready and watching will be caught up (harpazo) to the "third heaven" (1. Mars, 2. Jupiter, 3. Saturn), as Paul was "caught up" (harpazo) to the "third heaven" (II Cor. 12:1-7).

What else does Paul say?...Here again he is identifying "our gathering together to Him" [what else could this be but the rapture] with "the day of the Lord," and maintains that this cannot occur until "the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God" [also known as the abomination of desolation.] but here he also includes "the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ."...

***The Greek apostasia, translated above as apostasy, means separation and departure, as in a divorcement. Apostasiou is translated divorcement in Mark 10:4, Mt. 19:7 and Mt. 5:31. Apostasian is translated forsake in Acts 21:21.

***The brethren (believers) were not shaken or troubled by the news that the millennial Day of the Lord was "at hand." They were troubled that the Rapture had not happened before the supposed Tribulation that leads to the Day of God's Wrath on the 1st day of the Millennium. Paul tells them that the DEPARTURE (Rapture) will come first. Then the man of sin, the False Prophet will be revealed.

***Only after the salt of the Earth, containing the indwelling Holy Spirit, is "taken out of the way" at the Pre-Trib Rapture, will the False Prophet be revealed. Up to that time, the Holy Spirit restrains the appearing of the man of sin.

What does Jesus say? Matthew 24, Mark13, and Luke 21 seem to have a consistent order to them. "When you see the abomination of desolation"... "then there will be great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall" [worse than the holocaust?]... "but for the sake of the elect those days shall be cut short"... "But immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, and the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken"... "and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky with power and great glory. And He will send forth His angels with a great trumpet and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other." (Matt 24)... " from the farthest end of the earth, to the farthest end of heaven." (Mark 13.)

***This is the first day of the Millennium. All the saints are gathered in Heaven for the Judgment Seat of Christ is about to convene. The Bride group that was caught up at the Pre-Trib Rapture will be gathered from Heaven. The Tribulation saints will be gathered from the Earth, as Mark 13:27 says.

Sounds like the rapture to me, with the trumpet, and with people gathered from both the earth and heaven. When you were a kid, before you learned "theology," isn't that what you thought? Of course you could do as others have done and have two or more raptures (one book I've read even speaks of seven raptures) but that has always bothered me....

***One might outwit himself with this kind of thinking if he/she was not careful. We should look for the reason why one Rapture is as the days of Noah, when no fire fell, only rain, and the other Rapture is as the days of Lot, when fire fell that same day. Both did not take place at the same time. One was RADICALLY DIFFERENT from the other, too.

***In the former, Noah and ALL his family were floated upward by the water, symbol of the Holy Spirit, because they were in the Ark, symbol of being IN CHRIST THE SAVIOUR. In the latter, Lot and PART of his family escaped and then the Earth was hit by an asteroid that punched down and broke the bedrock and formed not only the Dead Sea but the Great Rift Valley that reaches from Turkey to Lake Nyassa in Africa.

***The 1st group raptured out of all nations is seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. The 2nd group out of all nations is seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:9,14. The 1st group is raptured before the 1st seal is broken, i.e., before the Tribulation. The 2nd group is raptured between the breaking of the 6th and 7th seals, i.e., before the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth on the Day of God's Wrath.

***Of the 1st Rapture, Isa. 57:1,2 says, "merciful men are taken away (acaph, gathered, removed, be taken up), none considering that THE RIGHTEOUS IS TAKEN AWAY (acaph, taken up) FROM the evil TO COME (the coming Tribulation). He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness. But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore." The Tribulation is near when the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place. This "FROM" is repeated in Rev. 3:10: "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee FROM (tereo ek, to keep out of) the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial, i.e., the Tribulation), which shall (in the future) come upon all the world, to try (peirasai) them that dwell upon the earth."

***At the 1st Rapture, only the wise Philadelphian virgins will be caught up. At the 2nd Rapture, all saints will be caught up, including the foolish virgins and the Laodiceans. By that time, they will "have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." They should read II Peter 4-11 and I John 1:9. Heb. 12:14 warns, "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord."

some people, most people I've talked to, have the sign in the sun, moon, and stars happening three times in order to make their chronology work. Is that kosher? Well, what do you think?

Just draw the occurrence in each of the three passages below onto the timeline....Matt 24:29...Acts 2:20...Rev 6:12...

***Mt. 24:29 is the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Rev. 6:12 is the previous day, the last day of this age. Acts 2:20 is also the last day of the Age of the Church. The smoke of the incoming asteroids starts after the 6th seal is broken on the last day of this age. The asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth the next day at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5). Then there is thick darkness (Joel 2:1-3). The last day of this age is also when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky when the smoke is rolled back like a scroll (Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f).

How many did you get? If you got more than one, does that seem right to you, or does it bother you too?

***I got one time, when the asteroids come in and impact Earth, but the smoke is spread over more than one literal 24-hour day. All the green grass burns. One third of the trees burn, etc. It takes more than one day to accomplish just the aftermath of the 2 major impacts.

If Jesus is right (isn't He always?) then this sign happens AFTER the "great tribulation", and how long does He say that the "great tribulation" lasts? Well, He doesn't come right out and say, but He does tell us that it is "cut short," and then He comes back, right? (see Matt 24 and Mark 13.)

***The darkness is at the end of the 1040-day Great Tribulation (2300 days of Dan. 8:13,14 minus 1260 equals 1040). Mt. 24:27-31 and Mark 13:24-27 are talking about the end of this age and the beginning of the Millennium, which is the 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation.

By the way, did the Bible ever say that the great tribulation is God's wrath?

***The Tribulation is not ALL God's Wrath. Only the 2300th day is the Day of God's Wrath.

According to the writers of Acts and Joel, this sign in the sun, moon and stars occurs BEFORE the "day of the Lord" comes. Well, that seems to fit with what Paul was saying, rapture then wrath!...

***Rev. 6:12 takes place late on the last day of this age. At 6 PM, the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord begins. The dark smoke begins when the first rocks hit our atmosphere. First, Earth is peppered with small rocks. Then at noon the next day, the two large pieces of Rev. 8:8,10 hit Earth. The Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place either in the night or morning before the asteroids strike at noon.

when is wrath first mentioned in the Revelation? Answer: Rev 6:16, after the sixth seal is opened and the signs in the sun, moon, and stars has begun....

***Correct. The Day of God's Wrath starts at 6 PM on the last day of this age. Rev. 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" The wrath of God hits on one day, the 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation.

scripture itself says "After this" denoting some kind of sequence), it would mean that the wrath (trumpets and bowls) could not begin (Rev 7:3) until the sealing of the 144,000 and the arrival of the great multitude in heaven... rapture then wrath!...

***That is correct. The Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place in the night or early morning before the asteroids hit at noon. The type was when Daniel's friends were saved out of the fiery furnace. The Tribulation saints will be saved so as by fire....

could His coming at the rapture have been imminent before the Jews were back in their land?...

***I don't think the Bible says that Christ's coming is imminent. I consider that a man-made doctrine. I think the Pre-Trib Rapture is, and always has been, a set time.

"But when these things begin to take place, straighten up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near." (Lk 21:28)...

***She left out the verse that "begin" refers us back to. Luke 21:25 says, "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars (lit., constellations); and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring." When the SIGNS, NOT DARKNESS, in the Sun, Moon and Constellations BEGIN to come to pass, the Pre-Trib Rapture is near. My Home page shows pictures of some of these signs. The Pre-Trib Rapture is truly near.

I used to be "pre-trib" and I would much rather be raptured out before the great tribulation begins. (I invite anyone to help me return to my pre-trib beliefs:-) Secondly, as far as I knew, I was the only one on the face of God's green earth who believed the way I did, and I wasn't pre, mid or post! I didn't even know what I was! Finally, a book came out titled, The Prewrath Rapture of the Church by Marvin Rosenthal. I not only had found another Bible student who had come to the same conclusions I had, but I now had a label, "Prewrath."

***I used to read what Rosenthal wrote in a little Jewish newsletter. He made good sense, and I was learning more about Jewish customs. Then, all of a sudden, he wasn't with them anymore. He had changed from Pre-Trib to Pre-Wrath. What he doesn't see is that both things are correct. We don't have to decide if we are Pre-Trib or Pre-Wrath. There really are two Raptures.

If this scenario is really the true meaning of what the Bible says, then that means that Christians will indeed go through the great tribulation (and then be raptured out before the day of the Lord's wrath begins.) And how does Jesus describe the great tribulation? "...there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall."...

***Even when quoting this, she can't see that this is one literal day "such as has NOT occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever shall." This one day is the 1st day of the Millennium.

I plan to develop a unit to be taught on how to prepare for and persevere during the great tribulation...

***Isn't it strange? God has told us how to prepare for the Rapture (II Peter 1:4-11; I John 1:9, etc.), but he has been strangely silent on how to prepare for the Tribulation. Why isn't that hard to discern? It is because we have set before us the chance to be "ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS" that are coming upon the Earth in the Tribulation. The foolish Laodiceans aren't listening, and even if they were, there is no list saying, ham radio, flash light, batteries... gauze, tape, scissors, needle and thread, tooth paste, hair brush, water, Clorox, soap, rice, dried beans...paring knife, plastic bags, clothing, blankets, candles, matches etc.

Incoming email

Re: the rapture
Your are truly tenacious in your efforts to seek the truth through his word. I wish I had your zeal. I surely don't pretend to be any where near your level of knowledge of eschatology. But a thought accured to me the other day.

You have always suggested that the rapture would occur on a Jewish feast day. But it isn't the jews that will be raptured but the church. This weekend is the holiest of days on the church calendar, Easter. It is when we celebrate his resurrection. Is it not interesting that he arose on the third day (why 3 days, a forshadowing of something to come?) and that we are prophetically at the beginning of the 3rd day (2000 years since his first appearance), that in Hosea 6:2 after 2 days he will revive us; on the 3rd day he will restore us, that we may live in his presence.

We know at the rapture that the dead in christ will rise first (be resurrected). What do you think? In Christ

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

> > You have always suggested that the rapture would occur on a Jewish feast day. But it isn't the jews that will be raptured but the church.

Rom. 12:5 says, "we, being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." Gentiles are grafted into the "good olive tree" (Rom. 11:24). Why? Rom. 11:30-32 says, "as ye (Gentiles) in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their (Israel's) unbelief: Even so have these (Israel) also now not believed, that through your (Gentile's) mercy they also may obtain mercy. For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all."

Joel 2:15-18 says, "Blow the trumpet (it's the Feast of Trumpets) in Zion, sanctify a fast (the Days of Awe start, then end on the Day of Atonement), call a solemn assembly (the 'general assembly' of Heb. 12:23): Gather the people (both from Heaven and Earth, Mk. 13:27), sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders (caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture), gather the children, and those that suck the breasts (at the Pre-Wrath Rapture): let the bridegroom (Christ) go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her closet (chuppah). Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people."

In Hos. 6:1-3, Israel says, "Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days (or 2000 years) will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up (fulfilled in 1948), and we shall live in his sight. Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." I think he came as the former rain on Tishri 1, in BC 5, and will return as the latter rain on Nisan 1, as in Eze. 29:17,21. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Rapture Date on Earth.
Good evening, I just would like to ask you about the rapture date here on earth?, coz i was reading your website and i noticed the thing you said about the day of the rapture, that it may would be on the 28th of May 2001 coz it's Sivan 6th on the Jewish calendar(Pentecost Day). I was blessed to have downloaded a copy of the Jewish Calendar month of May. And i noticed that if rapture would fall on the 28th of May this would be on a Monday. And the Lord's Day on John would be a question.

What i think the Lord would do is to come(Rapture) on the Eve of Sivan 6 w/c is Sivan 5 on Earth( May 27, 2001) coz this would be on a Sunday the Lord's Day, and Celebrate it in Heaven on the Day of Pentecost which is Sivan 6 on earth(May 28, 2001), Pentecost Day, Monday. So Rapture may would be a day earlier, on the Eve of Pentecost which is May 27,2001 (Sivan 5, Erev Shavout, 49th Day of Omer).

What do you think? Hope you would answer me back and clarify if this could be possible.

May the Lord Christ Jesus Bless us, Keep Us, and Guide Us in seeking and Understanding His Word. God Bless.

My reply

The Jewish Sivan 6 begins at 6 PM the day before. There are 12 hours of night and then 12 hours of daylight. I think that night would be a good guess, but I sure won't be unhappy if it is on the Erev Shavout. Of course, I am 10 hours behind Jerusalem time, so that could place it on the Eve of Pentecost here anyway.

For many years, I thought "the Lord's day" in the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1:10 meant Sunday. He was resurrected on Sunday. Maybe the Bride of Christ that is asleep in Jesus would be too. In Luke 17:22, the 2 Raptures are called "the days of the Son of Man." If I have figured the 2nd Rapture correctly, it will be on Thursday, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). If the 2nd Rapture is not on Sunday, maybe the 1st one is not on Sunday, either. The Lord's day in Rev. 1:10 may merely signify the day of the Son of Man, the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Peter Michas (Greek) said the term in Rev. 1:10 meant the Imperial Day. That seems to fit, because Rev. 1:6 says, "hath made us kings and priests." Rev. 5:10 says, "hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, over) the earth."

Some have thought Rev. 1:10 was talking about the millennial Day of the Lord. To me, that seems impossible, because Mal. 4:5 says, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD."

Others have thought Rev. 1:10 indicates the Sabbath, for Christ is Lord of the Sabbath. I think Jesus was born on the Sabbath and will rule during the millennial Sabbath. I also think his throne is on Sabbatai (Saturn). I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture will be on the 1st day of the millennial Sabbath, but I'm not sure that the Pre-Trib Rapture will be on a Sabbath. Agape

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