Pro and Con 738

Posted 4-24-01

Incoming email, Part II

To conclude, Marilyn, I'm going to put all of the above to the most difficult test I can think of in the Bible: see if it fits with no contradictions into Daniel 11.21-45 and Revelation 13.1-10. I think you will agree with me that Daniel 11 is the most controversial chapter in the Bible when it comes to who is who and which army is attacking which other army. I have read more than 100 books on Daniel in the last thirty years and have yet to see two writers agree on much of anything. All theories end up in Biblical contradictions with other portions of the Word. Let's see how this version stands up.

The match mark of the sacrifice and the abomination in Daniel 11.31 puts this verse into the last days, or more accurately, at the midpoint of the tribulation. As discussed above, these particular end time verses in chapter 11 begin with verse 21, the vile king.

Daniel 11.21-45
21 In the estate of the line of these Greek kings will rise to power a despicable man [the Muslim antichrist] who is not directly in line for royal succession. But he will slip in when least expected and take over the kingdom by flattery and intrigue.

22 Before him [the Muslim antichrist] great armies will be swept away, including a covenant prince [the high priest in charge of the Jewish Temple sacrifice allowed by the seven-year treaty/covenant that was confirmed by the Muslim antichrist in Dan 9.27].

23 By making deceitful promises, he [the Muslim antichrist] will make various alliances [through the seven-year treaty/covenant]. With a mere handful of followers, he will become strong.

24 Without warning he [the Muslim antichrist] will enter the [oil] rich areas of the land [Saudi Arabia, specifically Medina] and do something that none of his predecessors ever did distribute among his followers the plunder and wealth of the [oil] rich. He will plot the overthrow of strongholds, but this will last for only a short while.

25 "Then the he [the Muslim antichrist] will stir up his courage and raise a great army against the king of [Egypt] the south [Dan 8.9]. The king of the south [Dan 8.9] [Egypt] will go to battle with a mighty army, but to no avail, for plots against him will succeed.

26 Those of his [king of Egypt] own household will bring his downfall. His army will be swept away, and many will be killed.

27 Seeking nothing but each other's harm, the Muslim antichrist and the king of Egypt will plot against each other at the conference [peace negotiation] table, attempting to deceive each other. But it will make no difference, for an end will still come at the appointed time.

28 "The northern king [the Muslim antichrist] will then return home with great riches [Dan 11.43]. On the way he will set himself against the people of the holy covenant [Israel], doing much damage before continuing his journey.

29 "Then at the appointed time he [the Muslim antichrist] will once again invade Egypt, but this time the result will be different.

30 For warships from western coastlands [USA? British? European?] will scare the Muslim antichrist off, and he will withdraw and return home [Dan 11.44]. But he will vent his anger against the people of the holy covenant [Dan 11.44] [Israel] and reward those who forsake the covenant [who break the seven year treaty].

31 His [the Muslim antichrist] forces will take over the Temple fortress, polluting the sanctuary, putting a stop to the daily sacrifices, and setting up the sacrilegious object that causes abomination [Dan 8.12, 9.27].

32 With flattery he [the Muslim antichrist] will corrupt those who abandon the promise [covenant, seven year treaty of Dan 9.27]. But the people who know their God [the believers, saints] will be strong and take action.

33 "Those [the people who know their God] who are wise will give instruction to many. But for a time many of these teachers will die by fire and sword, or they will be jailed and robbed.

34 While all these persecutions are going on, a little help will arrive [for the people who know their God], though many who join them will not be sincere.

35 And some [of the people who know their God] who are wise will fall victim to persecution. In this way, they will be refined and cleansed and made pure until the time of the end, for the appointed time is still to come.

36 "The King [the Muslim antichrist] will do as he pleases, exalting himself and claiming to be greater than every god there is, even blaspheming the God of gods. He will succeed until the time of wrath is completed. For what has been determined will surely take place.

37 He [the Muslim antichrist] will have no regard for the gods of his ancestors [Allah], or for the god beloved of women [Jesus], or for any other god [Elohiym], for he will boast that he is greater than them all.

38 Instead he [the Muslim antichrist] will honor the god of fortresses, a god his ancestors never knew, and lavish on him gold, silver, precious stones, and costly gifts [looted from other nations].

39 Claiming this foreign god's help, he, [the Muslim antichrist] will attack the strongest fortresses. He will honor those who submit to him, appointing them to positions of authority and dividing the land among them as their reward.

40 "In the end times the southern king [Egypt] will attack him [the Muslim antichrist]. The northern king [Gog and his allies] will rush at him like a storm with chariots, horses, and many ships [all but one sixth of which is destroyed]. He [the Muslim antichrist in retaliation] will invade countries, overwhelm them, and pass through their land.

41 He [the Muslim antichrist] will enter the glorious land of Israel [to the west: the pleasant land of Dan 8.9], and many nations will fall, but Moab, Edom, and the best part of Ammon will escape.

42 He [the Muslim antichrist] will conquer many countries, and Egypt [toward the south: Dan 8.9] will not escape.

43 He [the Muslim antichrist] will gain control over the gold, silver, and treasures of Egypt [Dan 11.28], and the Libyans and Ethiopians will be his servants.

44 "But then news from the east [Oriental armies] and the north [European armies] will alarm him [the Muslim antichrist], and he will set out in great anger to destroy many as he goes.

45 He [the Muslim antichrist] will halt between the glorious holy mountain [of Israel] and the [Mediterranean] sea and will pitch his royal tents there, but while he is there, his time will suddenly run out, and there will be no one to help him.

*****
v 22 a covenant prince -nagiyd, Aramaic [5057/617b] some high official connected with the Temple; high-priest

-beriyth, Aramaic [1285/136a] treaty between men as opposed to a treaty between man and God

v 24 the richest areas of the land -mashman, Aramaic [4924/1032b] fat, oil; from shamam, Aramaic [8080/1031b] fat, oil

-mediynah, Aramaic [4082/193b] Medina- a city in Saudia Arabia; the holiest site in Islam.

v 40 Gog and his allies Ezekiel 38-39
--Russia (Magog, Rosh) All its bands and peoples (members of old USSR)
--Turkey (Meshech, Tubal, Togarmah)
--Germany (Gomer)
Countries east of the Rhine and Danube River Valley areas (most of the Balkans)
--Iran (Persia)
--Libya (Put)
--Ethiopia
--Ezekiel 39.2 shows the quick destruction of 5/6 of Gog and his allies on That Day.

Revelation 13
The Muslim Antichrist 1-10
1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy [Image of Nebuchadnezzar's dream: Daniel 2].

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority [the four beasts of Daniel's vision: Daniel 7].

3 And I saw one of his heads [11th Horn/Muslim antichrist; Daniel 7] as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him [11th Horn/Muslim antichrist] a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies [Daniel 7.8]; and power was given unto him [11th Horn/Muslim antichrist] to continue forty and two months [Daniel 7.24].

6 And he [11th Horn/Muslim antichrist] opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven [Daniel 7.25, 11.36].

7 And it was given unto him [11th Horn/Muslim antichrist] to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations [Daniel 7.21, 25; 8.24].

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him [11th Horn/Muslim antichrist][Daniel 11.36-37], whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

The False Prophet 11-18
11 And I beheld another beast [the false prophet] coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

12 And he [the false prophet] exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him [11th Horn/Muslim antichrist], and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast , whose deadly wound was healed.

13 And he [the false prophet] doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast [11th Horn/Muslim antichrist]; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

15 And he [the false prophet] had power to give life unto the image of the beast [11th Horn/Muslim antichrist], that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

16 And he [the false prophet] causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

The following Appendices really help in getting a big picture overview that show how the prophets and Jesus were all talking about the same person: the Muslim antichrist. There is too much common usage of match marks words and phrases for them to be talking about more than one person.

I know you have a life time worth of comments on all of the above, but I would ask you that your first comment address Jesus' statement in Matthew 24.15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"

According to Jesus, this is a FUTURE event. He does not qualify Himself to be speaking only of the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet in chapter 9.7. If the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet in chapters 8.11 and 11.31 were fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 BC, I believe Jesus would have so informed us. I know of no statement by Jesus that does not mean exactly what He says.

Thank you, Marilyn, for reading all this. I look forward to hearing from you on this. Give my best to Ed. Always Agape

My reply

Re: incoming e-mail, last part first:
> > I know you have a life time worth of comments on all of the above, but I would ask you that your first comment address Jesus' statement in Matthew 24.15 "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"
> > According to Jesus, this is a FUTURE event. He does not qualify Himself to be speaking only of the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet in chapter 9.7. If the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet in chapters 8.11 and 11.31 were fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 BC, I believe Jesus would have so informed us. I know of no statement by Jesus that does not mean exactly what He says.
> > I look forward to hearing from you on this.

***From Marilyn: Thanks for sending me your interpretations. We can all learn more by sharing our ideas. No matter what view we end up with, we have looked at the scripture details closely, searching for clues. Some may see points that others miss. Putting them together, we all see more of the entire picture.

***You and I agree on most points. A lot of what I write will be similar to what you wrote. I have to just think the whole thing through again in order to see if there is scriptural reason to change my view.

***Here is a difference in our views. You think the 1st beast of Rev. 13 desecrates the temple. I think it is the 2nd beast.

Re: Antiochus Epiphanes, there must be some misunderstanding somewhere. Maybe I failed to mark all my comments ***, or something. We agree on this. I DON'T think that "the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet in chapters 8.11 and 11.31 were fulfilled by Antiochus Epiphanes in 165 BC." He was a type, but when "the daily sacrifice was taken away" in Dan. 8:11 and they "shall take away the daily sacrifice" of Dan. 11:31, this takes place Mid-Trib. Dan. 11:31 adds that "they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate." That is what Mt. 24:15,16 is talking about. When the "abomination of desolation" stands in the Holy Place, "Then (Mid-Trib) let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains."

***This is echoed in Rev. 12:6,14: "the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days....And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent." Here we find that "time, and times, and half a time" equals 1260 days. Therefore, The Beast and False prophet are each to rule 1260 days (before the last half of the Tribulation is shortened to 1040 days for the elect's sake (Dan. 8:13,14).

***Like a chain reaction, the "time, and times, and half a time" leads us to Dan. 12:7. After this 3.5 years, "and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, ALL THESE THINGS SHALL BE FINISHED." Verse 11 adds, "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up (Mid-Trib), there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." This extra 30 days is the mourning for the dead. Nu. 20:29 says, "they mourned for Aaron THIRTY DAYS." This fills in information not given in Daniel.

***Isa. 28:13 shows why we have to follow the trail like this. It says, "the word of the LORD was unto them (the unsaved) precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." Daniel 12:10 reinforces this: "the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." The wise need to piece together the puzzle pieces, using the matchmark clues to put like things together to gather the extra information that will be in some of the accounts.

***The Beast rules the first 1260 days of the Tribulation (Rev. 13:5). The False Prophet comes to full power Mid-Trib and rules the 1040 days that are left of the 2300 of Dan. 8:13,14. It is this Great Tribulation, during which the False Prophet rules, that is to be shortened for the elect's sake (Mt. 24:21,22).

***The beginning of the False Prophet's rule is marked by the sacrificing that stops Mid-Trib because the False Prophet becomes Satan-possessed and sits in the temple "shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4). He is "that Wicked" "whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and SIGNS AND LYING WONDERS" (II Thess. 2:8,9; see Rev. 13:13-15).

> > you are really stretching it way past the limit when you claim 8.10 occurred in 165 BC but 8.14 will happen in the future.

***I must not have made myself clear. Other people tell me that they think Dan. 8:9 was fulfilled in Antiochus Epiphanes. Even Scofield's note says, "The 'little horn' here is a prophecy fulfilled in Antiochus Epiphanes." I DISAGREE. Antiochus was a type of the coming wicked one, but THIS PASSAGE PROJECTS INTO THE FUTURE. I think Dan. 8:9's "little horn" is the Satan-possessed False Prophet and v. 10 is when Satan casts down the fallen angels Mid-Trib. At that time, v. 11 will be fulfilled when the Satan-possessed False Prophet desecrates the temple. II Thess. 2:4 says, "Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."

> > The way I see it Marilyn, the antichrist will be a Muslim religious person who unites the entire Muslim world. He confirms the treaty that the ten-nation confederacy pushes on the world in the aftermath of the disruption and chaos caused by the Rapture. It is this Muslim antichrist that carries out the dirty deed of the match mark of the sacrifice and the abomination.

***Here we differ. The great red dragon has "seven crowns upon his heads" at Mid-Trib (Rev. 12:3). The 7th crown is upon the head of the False Prophet Mid-Trib. Rev. 13 does not say that the 7 heads are crowned, because at the beginning of the Tribulation, the 6th head is crowned, and the 7th is not crowned until Mid-Trib.

***Rev. 6:2 says, "behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow (toxon, simple fabric, i.e., this is a religious leader, a man of the cloth); and a CROWN was given unto him." The white horse is a symbol of a prince of peace. I have thought that this man was the Tribulation Pope, but let's keep an open mind and see what we can find out about him.

***We know that he is called "the beast" and not the "false prophet." Rev. 19:20 says, "the beast was taken, and with him the false Prophet." We read about The Beast in Rev. 13:1-10 and about the False Prophet in Rev. 13:11-18. The 2nd man is called ANOTHER in Rev. 13:11 and Dan. 7:8,24.

***We know that there are 1260 days in the first half of the Tribulation, and that The Beast rules during this 1260 days (Rev. 13:5). We also know that there is another 1260-day period, the Great Tribulation, during which the False Prophet rules. The 1260th day of The Beast's rule ends Mid-Trib. Then the False Prophet begins to rule the next day, the 1st day of the 2nd 1260-day period.

***Since there are 1290 days "from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up," we also can see that the False Prophet desecrates the temple on the 1st day of his rule. Rev. 12:14 agrees: "to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent." Satan indwells the False Prophet. From the 1st day of the 2nd 1260 days, the False Prophet speaks "as a dragon" (Satan) (Rev. 13:11). No wonder he understands "dark sentences" (Dan. 8:23).

***The "ten horns out of this kingdom (led by The Beast, the 6th head of the great red dragon) are ten kings that shall arise: and ANOTHER (the False Prophet, the 7th head) shall rise after them; and he (the False Prophet) shall be diverse (another man) from the first (he is not The Beast brought back to life), and he (the False Prophet) shall subdue three kings. And he shall speak great words against the most High (Christ), and shall wear out the saints of the most High... and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time (the last 3.5 years, the Great Tribulation), But the judgment shall sit (Judgment of the Nations on the next day after the full latter 1260 days end), and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end" (of Armageddon) (Dan. 7:24-26).

> > Isaiah 28:18
> > And your [Israel] covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge [the Muslim antichrist's armies] shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

***In Rev. 6:8, "Death" is the False Prophet, "and Hell (Satan) followed with him." When the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea on the 2300th day of the Tribulation, "the overflowing scourge (tsunami) shall pass through. Gog's united nations' army "shall be trodden down by it." Only 1/6th will be left (Eze. 39:2).

***What happens to the False Prophet that 2300th day? Zech. 11:17 says, "WOE to the idol shepherd (another man of the cloth, a religious leader over the United Religions as well as the OWG) that leaveth the flock! (he moves to Babylon) the sword (Sword of the Lord, the asteroid) shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened."

***In Rev. 9f, the 3 WOES are cast on the False Prophet and his kingdom. First, a star (aster, asteroid, star or meteorite) opens the bottomless pit, the center of the Earth. The fallen angels are released to torment unbelievers on Earth 5 months of the 7 before the Second Advent. Jude 6 says, "the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day." The 7 trumpet judgments are cast on Earth at the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven that 1st day of the Millennium.

***Upon whose kingdom does the harlot "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" sit? She sits "upon a scarlet coloured beast (the great red dragon), full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns" (Rev. 17:3). Thus the Mystery Religion of Babylon sits on all 7 heads of the great red dragon, of (1)Babel, (2) Babylon, (3) Media-Persia, (4) Greece, (5) Rome, (6) Ecclesiastic Rome, headed by The Beast, and (7) Ecclesiastic Rome, headed by the False Prophet, who "exerciseth all the power of the first beast" (Rev. 13:12).

***Rome destroyed the temple in 70 AD. Therefore, the "prince that shall come" of Dan. 9:26 is a prince whose people are Romans. And HE shall confirm the covenant with many for one week" (Dan. 9:27). This is the last 7 years of the 10 Jubilees (10 x 49 = 490 years). And "in the midst of the week (Mid-Trib) HE (the 2nd beast of Rev. 13) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (because he sits in the temple "shewing himself that he is God," II Thess. 2:4), and for the overspreading of ABOMINATIONS (idols) HE (the False Prophet) shall make it (the temple) desolate, even UNTIL THE CONSUMMATION" (Dan. 9:27) (the 2300th day of the Tribulation), when the asteroid will pour God's wrath on the desolator (the False Prophet, who becomes Satan-possessed and desolates the temple the first day of his reign.

***The prince desolator rules during the last 1040 days of the Tribulation in Dan. 9. By "him the daily sacrifice was taken away" (Dan. 8:11). This prince commits "the transgression of desolation" (Dan. 8:13). This prince shall "stand up against the Prince of princes" (Christ), Dan. 8:25. He rules during the Great Tribulation and is the 2nd beast of Rev. 13, the False Prophet. Because he desolates God's temple, Jer. 51:29 says, "the land shall tremble and sorrow: for every purpose of the LORD shall be performed against Babylon, to make the land of Babylon a DESOLATION without an inhabitant."

> > Jeremiah 47:2
> > Thus saith the LORD; Behold, waters [tidal wave from an asteroid hit in the Mediterranean Sea] rise up out of the north, and shall be an overflowing flood, and shall overflow the land, and all that is therein; the city, and them that dwell therein: then the men shall cry, and all the inhabitants of the land shall howl. [destruction of the Muslim antichrist's armies]

***I think it is the destruction of the OWG's army of Eze. 38. It strikes Israel on the last day of this age and is destroyed on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Zech. 13:7 says, "Awake, O sword (Sword of the Lord, the asteroid), against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd (the Satan-possessed False Prophet, now the Pontifex Maximus of the United Religions and the Mystery Religion of Babylon), and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones."

> > The rulers of the darkness of this world are Lucifer and his fallen angels. Just as Jesus has His chief princes Michael and Gabriel commanding under Him, Lucifer also commands his own chief princes who have responsibility over certain geographical areas. These chief princes of Lucifer are very powerful angelic beings: the chief prince of Persia withstood Jesus for three weeks in 10.13 until Jesus' chief prince Michael came to help Him. In verse 20, Jesus informs Daniel that he is returning (to the heavens) to fight with the chief prince of Persia and the chief prince of Grecia after He makes Daniel understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

***Jesus is the Almighty (Rev. 1:8). He is omnipotent. He cannot be held back for 3 weeks against his will. He needs no help from Michael to do anything he wishes.

> > (Rev. 13:)6 And he [11th Horn/Muslim antichrist] opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven [Daniel 7.25, 11.36].

***The 10 horns are upon the 6th head of the great red dragon. Dan. 7:7 says, "it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and IT HAD TEN HORNS." Thus the 10 kings are in power during the reign of The Beast.

***The 11th horn is the 7th head, the False Prophet. Dan. 7:24 says, "the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and ANOTHER shall rise AFTER THEM; and he (the False Prophet) shall be diverse from the first (not The Beast resurrected, but another man), and he (the False Prophet) shall subdue three kings" (of the ten). Dan. 7:8 agrees. It says, "there came up among them (the ten) ANOTHER little horn, before whom there were three of the FIRST HORNS plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn (the False Prophet) were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things." He is Satan possessed, and "shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished" (Dan. 11.36).

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