Pro and Con 757

Posted 5-28-01


5-27-01 AP - ...Ramallah, U.S. Assistant Secretary of State for Middle East Affairs William Burns met for about two hours with Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. Burns is scheduled to meet with Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon later today...
...Sharon has called a security mini-cabinet meeting for this afternoon to formally discuss Israel's response. Prior to the meeting, he will meet with US envoy William Burns to discuss the implementation of the Mitchell Committee findings...
KOENIG 5-24-01 - Bush Urged by Arafat: 'Finish father's peace plan
...As reported this week, Arafat’s regime is near collapse and has called on Syria, Iran and Iraq to come to his aide.
Arafat to meet EU leaders this week. STOCKHOLM, 5-28-01 (AFP)
Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon will consult the European Union on latest Middle East peace initiatives at separate meetings in the next few days...

Swedish Prime Minister Goeran Persson, whose country currently chairs the 15-nation EU, will meet Arafat in Copenhagen this Wednesday and Sharon in Brussels the following Wednesday, a government spokeswoman said.
5-27-01 - Radio Palestine Inciting to “Save the Temple Mount” ( The PA’s Radio Palestine during the day continues to call upon PA residents to act to "save the Temple Mount," playing Islamic religious songs aimed at inciting the population to take action...
KOENIG - Crisis Update - Christian Friends of Israel
...the Jerusalem wedding hall collapse, which killed 23 people, wounded more than 300... The top floor of the Versailles wedding hall buckled Thursday night (5-24-01), sending hundreds of people into a black abyss....(emphasis mine)

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Reuters...The Bilderberg group, a semi-secret discussion forum for the Western world's power elite, will hold its annual meeting in the town of Stenungsund on the Swedish west coast on May 24-28....

Incoming e-mail

With all the trouble in the middle east going on with Isreal, Do you think the Antichrist is about to come forth now according to where we are in bible prophesy?The middle east situation is now hopeless and all the Arab states are gearing up for war.No way can they make peace among themselves. what do you think?

My reply

As soon as the Rapture takes place, I think the Beast and False Prophet will confirm the 7-year treaty. It seems impossible for them to agree on the terms of the peace treaty now, but don't forget that the Holy Spirit in us is restraining the revealing of the False Prophet now. After the restraining ends at the Rapture, things will come together, right on time.

II Thess. 2:1-8 (Rotherham) says, "we request you, brethren (believers),—in behalf of the Presence of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together unto him (the Pre-Trib Rapture), That ye be not quickly tossed from your mind, nor be put in alarm—either by spirit, or by discourse, or by letter as by us, as that the day of the Lord (the Millennium), hath set in: That no one may cheat, you, in any one respect. Because that day will not set in—except the revolt come first, and there he revealed the man of lawlessness, the son of destruction (perdition, i.e., the False Prophet), The one who opposeth and exalteth himself on high against every one called God, or an object of worship; so that he, within the sanctuary of God, shall take his seat, showeth himself forth, that he is, God:— Remember ye not, that, while I was yet with you, these very things, I was telling you? And, what (the salt of the Earth, indwelt by the Holy Spirit) NOW RESTRAINETH (katecho, HINDERS THE PROGRESS OF), ye know, to the end he may be revealed in his own fitting time (the Tribulation); For, the secret, of lawlessness, already, is inwardly working itself,—only, UNTIL, HE THAT RESTRAINETH AT PRESENT, SHALL BE GONE, OUT OF THE MIDST: And, THEN (tote, AT THE SAME TIME), SHALL BE REVEALED THE LAWLESS ONE,—whom, the Lord Jesus, will slay with the Spirit of his mouth, and paralyse with the forthshining of his Presence."

When the Rapture happens, the salt of the Earth will be gone, and the Holy Spirit will no longer restrain the appearance of the False Prophet. Salt has to be measured very carefully in bread making. Too much and the loaf will not rise. Too little and the loaf will overproof. After the wise Philadelphian virgins are caught up to Heaven, there will not be enough salt left on Earth to restrain the growth of evil.

In Mt. 5:13, Jesus said, "Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be CAST OUT, and to be trodden under foot of men." Those that have, because of unconfessed sin, quenched the Holy Spirit that indwells them, are the foolish Laodicean virgins. They will be pruned from the vine (Christ) temporarily and left behind for the beasts of the Earth to summer on them.

Isa. 18:3-6 says, "All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign on the mountains; and when HE BLOWETH A TRUMPET, hear ye. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest (a Sabbatical Year, like 5761 (2001)?), and I will consider (nabat, see, look at) in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of HARVEST. For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower (in the SPRING), he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches. THEY SHALL BE LEFT together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall SUMMER upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them." Agape

Incoming e-mail

Re: End Times...How do I know if I am saved?
Thank you for your reply. I have accepted Christ as my personal saviour and assume from what you said I am saved. I don't really have time to attend church even though I would like to. My parents and sister aren't into this as much as I am and think that I am nuts when I talk about The Lord and the such. I know that I am not nuts, but it is hard to get someone else to believe once you do. I was talking with a friend and co-worker the other day and she said that once a person verbally states that they accept that The Lord died for your sins and rose again, that you have been saved and I have always believed that. Thanks again for being there and explaining things to me and have a wonderful memorial day.

My reply

You are more than welcome. As long as I am here, I will do my best to answer questions. I'm so thankful that you can have the assurance that you are saved. We all need that.

At the moment of salvation, the Spirit of Christ/Spirit of God indwells us, seals us until the day of Redemption. From that time on, we are walking with the Lord. He said that he would never leave us. He is a friend that sticketh closer than a brother. You have a great holiday too. Agape

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Christian Greetings. Some time ago I read your book and from time to time I read pros- and -cons. I was under the impression that you did not believe in the trinity of persons in the "Godhead"( so called). Have you changed on that issue?

Your response to the statement of the Muslim surprised me

Also, your interpretation of the word "bow" in revelations being "plain fabric". Where do you derive this information from? Thanks, Brother...

My reply

I haven't changed. I believe in the trinity. How could I not believe it? Mt. 28:19 says, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." Isa. 48:16 says, "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD (1), and his Spirit (2), hath sent me" (3). We are told what we need to know to pass our test and be saved. That isn't always enough to satisfy our curiosity, but we will know after the Rapture--everything in its own time.

I also believe it when Jesus said, "I and my Father are one" (John 10:30). I believe II Cor. 5:19. It says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." I believe De. 6:4: "Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHVH) our God (Elohim, plural) is one (echad, united) LORD (YHVH)." I believe Gen. 1:26,27: "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness...So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." Whatever the Bible says, I believe it. Whether I fully understand it or not, I accept it as truth. The male and female become echad, united. Gen. 2:24 says, "and they shall be one (echad, united) flesh."

> > the word "bow" in revelations being "plain fabric". Where do you derive this information

My Strong's 5117 says, "a bow (appar. as the simplest fabric)." Just as Cepheus (i.e., Christ), the great king in the Zodiac, is holding aloft a handful of ribbons to show that he is a religious leader, the Beast is also a man of the cloth, a religious leader. Agape

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From Singapore 5-27-01 Re: A light to the Gentiles
It is been one year since I first visited your site. It is the Lord Himself that leads me to there. I was reading a article on the Noah Ark (The one regarding claims that the it was at Turkey) when I had an impression to surf the web for more information regarding the topic. There was two hits when the search was conducted and one of it is yours.

It has been a year since I started reading you Pros and Cons and been marveled on your gift of wisdom and gift of knowledge.

It has been one year since the first rapture date you estimated based on your limited scriptural knowledge till this point of revelations upon revelations as each date passed.

It has been one year since I read about people been saved by your works and people failing to understand the true purpose of the great Commision.

Dear Mjagee, I believe you. I believe that the rapture will come to passed one of these days as I read in one of the Pros and Cons that says "The Rapture will happen when it happened". Surely God has and is going to use you in great ways to accomplish whatever He had in plans. You are like a Light to the Gentiles as Jesus did and now is doing. You are truly touching people with your sincerity and you love for the Lord and His people alike. Thank you and keep up the good work my dear sister, and I hope we meet up again in heaven.

Always keep this in mind, we are doing the works of our Father, and we are proud of it, For we love Him as much as He love us that He sent His only Son to die for us. Amen and Agape.... From Singapore. Brother in Christ

My reply

Many thanks for all your kind words. I just want to do my part to the best of my ability. I keep studying and writing as I promised the Lord. I keep learning new things too. I appreciate my new Bible programs. As I look up original words with a click of my mouse instead of thumbing through Strong's Concordance on my desk, I am finding new gems. Oh, how I wish I had had this opportunity years ago. Anyway, I am enjoying having it now.

May the Lord bless you with all spiritual blessings. I too hope we meet one of these days soon. We are so priviledged to be a part of the group that is to be raptured. To be part of the Bride group is a prize worth working for. Agape

Incoming email

It gets me every time someone brings up John Nelson Darby as the beginning of the rapture theory.

Even if it did start with him, which it did not, WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE? The rapture has always been in the New testament, whether we understood it or not was the only matter. Somewhere, someone first figured out what it meant. They figured it out because God said in Daniel we would start to understand these things when the time of the end was at hand.

Until recently everyone figured "The generation" that Christ referred to was in 1948 when Israel became a nation, now most believe it was when Jerusalem came under Israel control in 1967. As time goes by things get clearer.

My reply

It doesn't really make one whit's difference when the Rapture was first taught. All that matters is what Scripture says. Both Raptures are in Scripture, but how many see that today? It seems that there are more that don't than those that do. That doesn't erase them from Scripture. They are there for anyone to find.

I figured the last generation started in 1948 until 1968. On the day Bobby Kennedy died on the anniversary of the beginning of the Six-Day War (June 5), it came clear to me that Israel grew leaves and fulfilled the fig tree parable of Mt. 24:32-34 in 1967. I wrote Hal Linsey and explained it, but at that time, he paid no heed. After 1988, he accepted it.

You are so right that things come clearer as time goes on. Watching pays off. Agape

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Re: binary asteroid
I went to the site last night and was struck by the front page report of a binary (double) asteroid doing a 12.6 lunar distance close flyby of earth on may 25... It seemed to go on to say that this pair of space mountains passes the Sun eeven closer than Mercury, and it's orbit repeats every 188 DAYS.

Could you project that time period forward to 2300 days in Jewish years to see if these 'rocks of rashab 'could be here about 13th Sep. 2007. There is a lot of activity also reported up the such as disintegrating comets etc. which could interrupt other space junk orbits.

I look forward to seeing you all very soon, even if the calenders are slightly out and the rapture doesn't happen on Monday or even today, it will be very very soon, and this is the best reasoned to be quickened ...Agape

My reply

> > orbit repeats every 188 DAYS. Could you project that time period forward to 2300 days

Thanks. 2300 days divided by 188 does not come out even. Wouldn't that mean that it would not be as close to Earth then as now?

What really shocked me about the article is the distance between the 2 parts of the binary asteroid. It says, "DOUBLE ASTEROID: Astronomers announced Thursday that near-Earth asteroid 1999 KW4 -- a space rock that passed 12.6 lunar distances from Earth on May 25th -- is a binary! Data from NASA's Goldstone Planetary Radar reveal "separations up to at least 2 km between the components, whose sizes differ by a factor of at least three." 1999 KW4 will brighten to 11th magnitude in the days ahead --an easy target for modest amateur telescopes equipped with CCD cameras-- as it zips through the constellations Aquila and Ophiuchus. Agape

Note: This shows that the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 do not have to be joined before they hit the Roche Limit (11,000 miles out). Aquila and Ophiuchus both represent Christ in the Gospel in the Heavens. Aquila is the pierced one falling. The bright star AL TAIR is Arabic for THE WOUNDING. AL OKAB (Arabic) means WOUNDED IN THE HEEL, which leads us to OPHIUCHUS, who is wounded in the heel as he runs along the ecliptic, but battles the serpent to keep him from reaching CORONA, the crown. He is just about to crush the Scorpion SCORPIO. A star in the bruised foot is SAIPH, meaning bruised, referring to Gen. 3:15.

Incoming email

To Chad Harvey from --- --- (through Marilyn's web site) Chad, I learned more about you from your little eight sentence e-mail to Marilyn than you can imagine. First of all, I take offence that as a Christian, you would have the nerve to call her Jezebel. You must feel pretty secure with your relationship with Jesus to presume to call any woman with a name obviously meant as an insult. I don't recall anywhere in scripture our Lord calling anyone a name with the intent to insult. In fact, it seems the only ones Christ rebuked were the religious leaders of the day, which is how you come across to me. Just another pseudo intellect, religious, pious know it all. Be careful. My advice to you, man to man, is rise above your satanic inspired hate and ask Marilyn and then our Lord to forgive you. Or will your foolish pride stop you?From what I've read of her writings, I'm sure she already has.

Secondly, don't presume you know as much as you think you do. How any man can tell that God is going to send someone to hell always reveals they have placed themselves above that person in their own mind. In the First Epistle to the Romans, Paul said, "Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits." Do you know what's in Marilyn's heart? Only God can truly know her heart, so how can you presume to know? We can only catch glimpses into her heart from her writings on the internet. She shows more Christian attributes than most people I know, including myself. God knows I would not have responded to your letter with as much patience and understanding as she did.

Thirdly, don't consider that people who read her web site and actually glean a little understanding from her understanding of the scriptures are her followers. I have been lucky enough to find her web site in January 1998. I have read pretty much every pro and con since then and actually look forward to coming home and reading them (I'm a 50 year-old airline pilot and travel a lot). I've seen how she gently refutes her antagonizers in a Christian manner that more represents Christ than your letter does.

I'm a follower, but of Christ. I'm sure she counts no one as a follower. Instead, I can say that I love Marilyn (and I've never even met her) because she loves Christ and is seeking the truth. If she is seeking to find a rapture date and sharing that with the whole world, why should that bother you so much? I've read testimony on her web site from people around the world who claim they have come to Christ through her pros and cons. Are they lying? I don't think so. Her understanding has helped me. I've then shared it with other people. Some were interested, some weren't. You don't have to agree with her, but you do have disagree in a more Christian like manner.

She is not a prophet. She has told the world that repeatedly. She is just like you and me, the only difference being she puts herself, through her web page, in front of the whole world and says, "This is only how it looks to me. You should search the scriptures and see if it is so." Have you put youself in front of the whole world, subject to so much criticism Chad? I haven't. Show me some wisdom and I'll read your web page too. I truly believe Marilyn is one of those servants, that Jesus will say, "Well done!"

Hope to see you all May 28th 2001. If not then, well...soon. Marilyn, thank you again for all your lifetime work in searching the scriptures and sharing it for us all to see. Love in Christ

My reply

Thanks for your kind words. All the best, agape

Incoming email

From: John Didymus Pope
Well as you can see it is 2001, no RAPTURE in 1998 as you predicted, let me clue you in, there NEVER WILL BE A SECRET RAPTURE, that word RAPTURE is not in the Bible, the word resurrection is in the scriptures 42 times, no less, the "RAPTURE" teaching is false,,, Gods Church will go through the Great Tribulation, see Revelation 12:17- 13:10. Also Matthew 24:29-31. 8-)

Yes those that keep the 10 commandments, including the weekly Sabbath and Gods Feast days of Levioticus 23, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ, are Gods elect, His Church, whose head is Jesus Christ, and there are two general resurrections, but there is no such an event as a "Secret Rapture" please, give the Bible a break..8-) John Didymus Pope

My reply

You know something? I don't think there will be a secret Rapture, either. :-) I think it will be seen. Psa. 40:1-3 says, "I waited patiently (as in Rev. 3:10) for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He BROUGHT ME UP also out of an horrible pit (out of the Earth), out of the miry clay (i.e., out of these bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established MY GOINGS. And he hath put a NEW SONG (as sung in Rev. 5:9 after the Rapture) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."

> > that word RAPTURE is not in the Bible

Neither is trinity. Does that matter? The New Testament was written in Greek. What is in the original for II Thess. 4:16,17's "caught up" is harpazo. If you would rather use the Greek word, go ahead. You could use the catching up, or the snatching away by force, which harpazo means. When the Greek scriptures were translated into Latin, the word "rapiemir" was used to translate "harpazo." When "rapiemir" was translated into English, it became Rapture, but Bible translators prefer using "caught up." The meaning is clear to more people; we will be caught up and meet Christ in the air. I remember when someone asked me, "What is the Rapture?" Unless one knows what it is used to represent, "caught up" is clearer.

> > Gods Church will go through the Great Tribulation

I don't see how. The saints already in Heaven in Rev. 5:9 are "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." They are with the Lamb of God in Heaven, and they sing the "new song." All this is before the Tribulation begins when the first seal on the Title Deed of the Earth is broken. We need to understand that there are Old Testament saints, church saints and Tribulation saints.

The church saints receive crowns. Rev. 3:10,11 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I ALSO WILL KEEP THEE FROM (ek, out of, away from) THE HOUR OF TEMPTATION, WHICH SHALL COME UPON ALL THE WORLD, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly (at the Rapture, not the Second Advent when every eye shall see him): hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take THY CROWN." No crowns are mentioned for the Tribulation saints. In the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1:6, we find out that he "hath made us KINGS AND PRIESTS unto God (Jesus Christ is God) and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen." In Rev. 5:10, the Bride saints "which have not defiled their garments" (Rev. 3:4) have been made "unto our God KINGS AND PRIESTS."

The Tribulation saints are not so lucky. When they get to Heaven, they are "before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple," but no crowns, no being made kings and priests is mentioned.

Paul said we are running a race to win an incorruptible crown. Those that do not win this crown can be "castaways" (I Cor. 9:27) at the Pre-Trib Rapture. "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling (the 'Come up hither') of God in Christ Jesus" (Phil. 3:14).

In Luke 21:34-36, Jesus said, "take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Isa. 57:1,2 says, "THE RIGHTEOUS perisheth (abad, ESCAPES, vanishes), and no man layeth it to heart: and MERCIFUL MEN ARE TAKEN AWAY (acaph, to gather and take away), none considering that THE RIGHTEOUS IS TAKEN AWAY FROM THE EVIL TO COME. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness."

> > see Revelation 12:17- 13:10. Also Matthew 24:29-31

These are Tribulation saints. Rev. 12:17 says, "And the dragon (Satan) was wroth with the woman (Israel), and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ" (the Messianic Jews). Satan is cast down to Earth Mid-Trib. This is when he possesses the False Prophet and sits in the temple showing himself that he is God (II Thess. 2:4). This is the signal for all the believing Jews that are there to flee Judaea and head for the wilderness area and Petra (Mt. 24:15,16). When the Bible says to run, they had better run, for "the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood. And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth" (Rev. 12:15,16).

Rev. 13:10 says, "He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints." These are Tribulation saints. There is a great multitude which no man can number saved during the Tribulation (Rev. 7:9,14). Rev. 13:6 speaks of the already raptured ekklesia, called out ones. It says, "And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN." How do you think they got there? You bet, they were raptured before the Tribulation started. You see them in Heaven at the beginning of the Tribulation in Rev. 17 too. V. 14 says, "These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM (IN HEAVEN) ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL." I want to be in that group. They are the Bride of Christ. They win crowns that are not mentioned for the Tribulation saints.

Mt. 24:29-31 is talking about one day, the 2300th day of the Tribulation. V. 31 says, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet (the first 'trump of God,' I Thess. 4:16), and they shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER." In that verse, all the ekklesia, called out ones, that won the prize of the high calling of God are already in Heaven. They got there in the Pre-Trib Rapture. Agape

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