Pro and Con 761

Posted 6-7-01

Israeli, Palestinian ministers to attend EU meeting
http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/article.html?s=asia/headlines/010607/world/afp/Israeli__Palestinian_ministers_to_attend_EU_meeting__sources.html
BRUSSELS, June 7 (AFP) - Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres and Palestinian minister for international cooperation Nabil Shaath will attend an EU foreign ministers' meeting in Luxembourg on Monday....

Solana and Persson are to hold talks with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak...
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Israel, Palestinians to meet tomorrow in Cairo
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/06/07/LatestNews/LatestNews.27741.html
Israel, Palestinians to meet tomorrow in Cairo CIA head George Tenet is scheduled to participate in the summit aimed at facilitating the resumption of security coordination between Israel and the Palestinians.

Tenet arrived in the region this afernoon for talks with Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat.
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Tenet-Arafat meeting concludes on 'positive' note
By Aluf Benn and Daniel Sobelman, Ha'aretz Correspondents
http://www2.haaretz.co.il/breaking-news/peace_process/365981.stm
6-7-01 The meeting between director of the Central Intelligence Agency George Tenet and Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat ended Thursday night after more than two hours. All senior members of the Palestinian security services participated in the meeting....

The source estimated that at the security meeting between the heads of the Palestinian and Israeli security services, due to take place in the West Bank city of Ramallah on Friday, the two sides will agree to joint patrols that will cover the areas around the West Bank cities of Bethlehem, Ramallah, Nablus and Tul Karm.
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Hamas tells JPost Radio: Arafat did not order cease-fire By Blake Lambert
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/06/05/News/News.27575.html
Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat did not tell Fatah and Hamas to stop the violence at a meeting on Monday night, a senior Hamas spokesman told Jerusalem Post Radio this afternoon.

Dr. Abdel Aziz Rantissi said Arafat explained to representatives from the factions about the pressure he was under to stop the violence, but he did not order them to stop their "resistance."
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Palestinians Warn Israel Against Reoccupation of Gaza Strip, West Bank
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200106/04/eng20010604_71753.html
...Israel has decided on Saturday morning to take a series of measures against the Palestinians, including a lockade on all parts of the West Bank and Gaza Strip to prevent what they called the Palestinian saboteurs from sneaking into Israel.

Israel also decided to impose a naval siege on the coast alongside the Gaza Strip, close down the airport at Rafah, a border crossing between Egypt and the Gaza Strip, and ban air flights, including Arafat's plane.
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Israel ready to isolate PLO area, By Abraham Rabinovich
http://washingtontimes.com/world/20010604-81010793.htm
6-4-01 WASHINGTON TIMES - JERUSALEM In the event that the Palestinian Authority does not satisfactorily respond to Israel's demands for curbing terrorrists, Israel has drawn up a list of military and administrative options designed to inflict real pain on the Palestinians without sparking a regional explosion....

Administrative steps would be aimed at hurting the Palestinians economically and undermining the rule of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat....

* A ban on the transfer of funds, fuel or mail to the Palestinian Authority. Since all physical access to the area is through Israel, these bans could be enforced. Food and medicine would not be affected.
* No goods would be allowed to transit through Israel to the Palestinian Authority, crippling construction and other commercial activities.
* The West Bank would be divided into two parts and no contact would be permitted beween them.
Gaza Port, from which Palestinian fishermen sail, would be closed. So would the Dahaniya Airport in Gaza, the only airport in the Palestinian areas.

Also contemplated, according to the media, are a curbing of telephone services in the Palestinian territories...
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From: 5doves site: Jovial (4 June) "Fragments of Matthew"

It was posted at
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2001/donnas62.htm
that some fragments of Matthew (in Greek) were found dating back to the 2nd century. I would like to add that there are copies of all the gospels dating back to the 2nd century written in Aramaic and Latin. Now many adversaries of the gospel know this and still try to discredit the timing of the gospel by saying there are no Greek manuscripts prior to the 4th century. So obviously this is a rather biased argument. Additionally, there are COMPLETE manuscripts from the 2nd century in Aramaic and even Latin, and they are substantially the same as the Greek versions, with some minor variations here and there. If you found a copy in Sanscrit dated to 70 AD it would be significant as long as it substantially matched the original text. It would help substantiate that the gospel had been translated and spread to that part of the world and thus written some time prior to that date. Shalom, Joe

Incoming e-mail

What is the evidence that Pentecost is a two-day (or multi-day for that matter) feast? I've read that it may be considered a two day event. Thanks. In Christ

My reply

It is my understanding that when the Jews were dispersed among the nations, the ones far away were not able to know for sure which day it was. Therefore, they kept the feast 2 days to be sure they got the right day. Agape

Incoming email

From: CAPS 6-3-01
Marilyn and Chrissa, attached is an article received today. I believe today is the Day of Pentecost. However, the verse that comes to mind is the one from Matthew 25:5 "While the Bridegroom TARRIED...they all slumbered and slept." What are your thoughts on this? God Bless.
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Special Jerusalem Report, by Barbara Richmond
...Arab press reports that Egypt, Syria and Iraq have put all their military on alert and in the Sunday government newspaper in Syria, there was a long article extolling the "virtue" of the Tel Aviv bombing.

Although Arafat made a statement late yesterday for a unilateral cease-fire, shooting by Palestinian gunmen in various parts of the country has continued, making a mockery of his statement. Army radio reported today that while Arafat made the statement to the international press, he did not issue an order to his own people to stop shooting...13 Palestinian groups met in various areas of the West Bank and Gaza today, vowing to continue fighting until they destroy Israel.

Prime Minister Sharon now has but a few hours to issue the orders for Israel's retaliation. He has just moments ago called for another security cabinet meeting....
Keep praying and watching, Barbara www.foryourglory.org

My reply

Whenever he or his prophets tarry, it seems that it is on purpose, that someone is being tried.

Remember how king Saul (meaning asked for) was tried? and why he failed? I Sam. 13:8 says, "Saul, he was yet in Gilgal, and all the people followed him trembling. And he tarried seven days, according to the set time that Samuel (meaning NAME OF GOD) had appointed: but Samuel came not to Gilgal (a circle, i.e., a sphere); and the people were scattered from him." Saul didn't wait for Samuel. He offered the burnt-offering himself." Verse 10 says, "And it came to pass, that as soon as he had made an end of offering the burnt offering, behold, Samuel (NAME OF GOD) came." In verses 13 and 14, Samuel said to Saul, "Thou hast done foolishly: THOU HAST NOT KEPT THE COMMANDMENT OF THE LORD THY GOD, which he commanded thee: for now would the LORD have established thy kingdom upon Israel for ever. But now thy kingdom shall not continue: the LORD hath sought him a man after his own heart, and the LORD hath commanded him to be captain over his people, because thou hast not kept that which the LORD commanded thee."

What did the Lord command us to do? Over and over, he said to WATCH. No matter how long it takes, we must do what he said. Heb. 10:35-38 says, "CAST NOT AWAY THEREFORE YOUR CONFIDENCE, WHICH HATH GREAT RECOMPENCE OF REWARD. FOR YE HAVE NEED OF PATIENCE, THAT, AFTER YE HAVE DONE THE WILL OF GOD, YE MIGHT RECEIVE THE PROMISE. FOR YET A LITTLE WHILE, AND HE THAT SHALL COME WILL COME, AND WILL NOT TARRY (chronizo, delay, tarry, tarry so long). Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him."

This could be our final test. We have come this far. It is no time to fall back now. We should hang tight. We can see that things in Israel are building to a climax. Hang on as long as it takes, whatever happens. There is no use being anxious. We should rest in the Lord and wait on his good pleasure. He has good reasons for what he does and when he does it. Trust him implicitly. Lean on him rather than on our own understanding.

Between now and the beginning of summer on June 21 is a likely window of opportunity. Let's see what happens. Agape

His reply

Thanks , Marilyn. I needed your word of encouragement. I really appreciate your kindness. The thought of having an "open ended" on-going sojourn in this present evil world is not very palatable. May God continue to bless you and your efforts.

My reply

Actually, the news is encouraging. The peace treaty seems to be the most closely watched pot that is boiling now. The UN and the Pope have even made overtures. Just watch it all come together. Remember, God is in complete control. When it does come together, I think we will be outta here.

Many blessings. You will be rewarded for your diligence in studying the scriptures.

...I got tickled when I read the news that Egypt said they would not lose another war to Israel. They just don't take God into consideration, but he will rule nevertheless. If he doesn't want Egypt to win, she won't win, no matter what she thinks or does. Remember all that equipment she left behind before? That can happen any time she goes against God's plans. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Fw: Re: Encouragement
From: LynMize@aol.com - Sent: 6-5-01
In a message dated 6/4/01..._______writes:

<< Pls give us some encougagement we need it now >>

Hello ____________________,
If you are looking forward to the Firstfruits Rapture--which I know you are--then you can be greatly encouraged. The article following this message shows that Israel is about to destroy the terrorist infrastructure, and the core of this infrastructure is Damascus.

The whole world is in fear that there will be a nuclear war in the Middle East, and their fears are justified. I have been watching and waiting for Damascus to be destroyed so I can participate in the Midnight Cry. The Midnight Cry is "The Bridegroom cometh, go ye out to meet him." We have expected Damascus to be destroyed several times in the last few years in accordance with
http://www.thefirstfruits.org/2ndcoming/damascus.htm">

The Burden of Damascus-Isaiah 17. Even Arafat is afraid now but it appears that the situation is now out of his hands. The following article shows that Hamas does not support a ceasefire. One more major terrorist attack and Israel has vowed to wipe out the terrorist infrastructure.

When Damascus goes the whole world will be in shock, and the "five wise virgins" will initiate the Midnight Cry. The five wise virgins are those faithful Christians looking for the Lord to return and beckoning for Him to return.

I felt very strongly that the Firstfruits Rapture would be after Pentecost, but before summer, as the Lord stated that when it happened, summer would be at the door. Summer is June 22nd. Also, a good friend of mine had a dream several years ago that the Bridegroom came when it was the last quarter moon. The last quarter moon begins on June 13th and ends on June 21st with the new moon. We are greatly anticipating the Bridegroom in the next couple weeks.

I greatly encourage everyone to pray Luke 21:36.

I am sending a copy of this to many to encourage them also.
God Bless, Lyn

My reply

I don't see why anyone would think Damascus is to be destroyed now. Isa. 17:7,11,13 says, "At that day (1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord) shall a man look to his Maker, and his eyes shall have respect to the Holy One of Israel (the Sign of the Son of Man seen in the sky, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f)...the harvest shall be a heap in the day of grief and of desperate sorrow...The nations shall rush like the rushing of many waters: but God shall rebuke them." It is the Day of God's Wrath, when Gog's army attacks Israel and the Lord saves them.

I was looking up certain words in Strong's, and was surprised at what turned up as alternate meanings. Isa. 18:3-5 says, "All ye inhabitants (yashab, to dwell, settle, marry) of the world (tebel, globe), and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up (nasa, lift up, lofty, marry) an ensign on the mountains; and when he bloweth a trumpet, hear ye. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider (nabat, look intently at, regard with favor) in my dwelling place (Heaven) like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest (qatsiyr, severed, harvest as reaped). For afore the harvest, when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks, and take away and cut down the branches. They shall be left together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall summer upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them."

The word "nasa" is also used in Gen. 7:17: "the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up (nasa, lift up, lofty, marry) above the earth." I wonder if these 40 days, during which the Ark was lifted up, apply to us now. The full 40 days would be Tamuz 16, 5761 (July 7, 2001). However, the Ark may have floated free of the ground before that. The 1st day of summer is June 21 on my calendar. That is Sivan 30 on the Jewish Talmudic Calendar. Keep watching. Agape

Incoming email

From: Todd Black 6-6-01
Subject: In Love...
In the opening of the Book of Acts, Jesus told his disciples to wait in Jerusalem for the promise from His Father and they asked " Will you at this time restore the Kingdom to Israel?" and his response was "It is not your affair to know the times or the seasons which the Father has placed under his own authority." I respect your heart to seek the coming of our Lord and the glory that shall follow. Surely this hope is what purifieth our hearts (1 John 3:3), but it is not our affair to know the times or the seasons. Since 1996 or so, you've sought diligently to find the "sign" of the restoration of Israel and the timing of such events, only to fail miserably. I will go on the record as to say you will NEVER know, because "it's not our affair to know the times or the seasons which the Father has placed under his own authority." YES it's a great hope. YES it brings great joy to our hearts to look forward to such a glorious day and time. YES I want the Lord to return and gather us unto himself as much as any true believer in the Son of the Living God. YES I respect you and love you as a sister in Christ our Lord.

I know you've probably heard this many times and have deflected many harsh and oftentimes ungodly correction or reproof on the matter; but I felt it appropriate to remind you that WE, the Body of Christ, will not be given any sign of any such restoration of a kingdom or know of any season or any time to which the Father has placed in His own authority. Thus saith the Lord.

May God continually bless you with all spiritual blessings in the heavenlies in Christ Jesus, our coming Lord and Saviour. Peace be with you. Todd

My reply

> > "It is not your affair to know the times or the seasons which the Father has placed under his own authority."

You left off part of it. Jesus was talking to "THE APOSTLES" (Acts 1:2). Acts 1:6-9 (KJV) says, "When THEY therefore were come together, THEY asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto THEM, It is not for YOU to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. BUT YE SHALL RECEIVE POWER (to know the times or seasons), after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

The apostles were the elders of the church (also in Rev. 4 and 5). They received the power "to know the times or the seasons" 10 days later when "they were all filled with the Holy Ghost" (Acts 2:4) on Pentecost. There were 120 disciples that were filled with the Holy Spirit at the same time. Besides the 120, the "same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls (Acts 2:41). The church has had the power ever since that day in 30 AD. However, there was one thing that kept them from figuring out "the times or the seasons." The Sign of the End of the Age had not yet appeared. Only after it appeared could the schedule of the end times be dropped into its slot in the calendar.

As Jesus "sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be THE SIGN OF THY COMING, AND THE END OF THE WORLD (aion, AGE)?" I think we are the ones that are privileged to have seen this sign.

After giving them some information they needed to get oriented so that they would not think the sign and the end of the age would appear in their days, Jesus answered their question with the fig tree parable.

Mt. 24:32-40: "Now learn a parable of the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7); When his branch (klados, scion, i.e., modern Israel grafted into its old rootstock) is yet tender (apalos, soft, young, i.e., no more than 19, considered the young at the Exodus), and putteth forth leaves (Gaza Strip, Golan Heights, Sinai, West Bank), ye know that summer is nigh (the Six-Day War started June 5; summer started June 21, when Israel was 19): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things (modern Israel growing), know that it ('the kingdom of God,' Luke 21:31) is near, even at the doors (the 2 Raptures, Rev. 3:8). Verily (amen, so be it, i.e., this is very important) I say unto you, This generation (born in 1967) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven (ouranos, sky, i.e., atmospheric heavens, as in II Peter 3:10,11) and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day (when the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth causing the elements to melt) and hour knoweth (present tense, i.e., on that day) no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."

We have an opportunity that many before us did not have. Whether we figure it out exactly or not, we have a better chance than the church did in previous centuries. We have the completed scriptures and have seen the Sign of the End of the Age. We know that Jesus said, "take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mark 13:23). Jesus told us to watch. We need to keep watching and studying the prophecies.

There was no way in the 1st century to figure when the asteroids would impact Earth on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. They didn't even know what an asteroid was. Today, we may be able to figure it out. 1967 + 40 = 2007. Joel 1:15 shows that "the day of the LORD" will come "as a destruction from the Almighty." Mal. 2:3 says, "your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it." Also, see Hos. 5:7 and 9:5,6. Joel 2:1,2 shows that the destruction is on the Feast of Trumpets. I think Eze. 38:20; 39:12,13 shows that there are 7 months between that Tishri 1 and the following Nisan 1, when Christ returns (Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3). That means that that Jewish Year must be a leap year, and 5768 is a leap year. I think Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007) has a good chance to be when the elements will melt. However, the Talmudic Jewish Calendar may be off a bit, but it should get us into the ball park.

The Jewish 5768 is not only a leap year, but also a Sabbatic Year. So is 5761, the year we are in now, and it will end as Tishri 1, 5762 begins on Sept. 18, 2001. Because of the week of years in Dan. 9:27, it would be like God's logical way of planning to have the Rapture happen in a Sabbatic year 7 years before the Second Advent in a Sabbatic year. From now to Sept. 18 seems like a window of opportunity for the Rapture to take place.

Whether right or not, this has been my reasoning on the 2300 days of Dan. 8:13,14. Maybe you can see how they can apply in a different way. Daniel's vision of the 2300 evenings and mornings in chapter 8 apply to the last end of the indignation. Dan. 8:17 says, "at the time of the end shall be the vision." V. 19 says, "in the LAST END OF THE INDIGNATION: FOR AT THE TIME APPOINTED (mowed, a fixed time, or specifically, a FESTIVAL) THE END SHALL BE." This seems to tie in with the Feast of Trumpets. In Dan. 8:25,26, "he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (Christ); but he shall be broken without hand. And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days."

Dan. 8:13,14 says, "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (when the Jews do sacrifice), and the transgression of desolation (Mid Trib), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; THEN SHALL THE SANCTUARY BE CLEANSED."

Maybe the 2300 days end at the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008) instead of Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). Eze. 45:18 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month (Nisan 1), thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and CLEANSE THE SANCTUARY." If the 2300 days ends on Nisan 1, 5768, they would begin on Teveth 6, 5762 (Friday, Dec. 21, 2001, first day of winter). Hmmm. Food for thought.

> > I respect your heart to seek the coming of our Lord and the glory that shall follow. Surely this hope is what purifieth our hearts (1 John 3:3), but it is not our affair to know the times or the seasons.

Then what does Jesus mean in Rev. 3:3? He says, "Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. IF THEREFORE THOU SHALT NOT WATCH, I WILL COME ON THEE AS A THIEF, AND THOU SHALT NOT KNOW WHAT HOUR I WILL COME UPON THEE." Don't you think that means that if we watch, he will not come on us as a thief, and we will know what hour he will come upon us?

Jesus comes as a thief for the Tribulation saints at the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Rev. 16:15 says, "the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty. Behold, I COME AS A THIEF. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon."

I Thess. 5:1-6 says, "But of the times and the seasons, brethren (believers), ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (the Millennium) so cometh as a thief in the night. For when THEY shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But YE, BRETHREN (BELIEVERS), ARE NOT IN DARKNESS, THAT THAT DAY SHOULD OVERTAKE YOU AS A THIEF. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. THEREFORE LET US NOT SLEEP, AS DO OTHERS; BUT LET US WATCH AND BE SOBER."

> > I will go on the record as to say you will NEVER know, because "it's not our affair to know the times or the seasons which the Father has placed under his own authority."

Ok, I will post this, so you will be "on the record." However, the word "NEVER" is probably not what you meant to say, because believers will know one of these days.

> > "I felt it appropriate to remind you that WE, the Body of Christ, will not be given any sign of any such restoration of a kingdom or know of any season or any time to which the Father has placed in His own authority. Thus saith the Lord."

I would be afraid to make such a statement. Mt. 24:3,4 says, "as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the SIGN OF THY COMING, and of the end of the world (aion, age)? And Jesus answered..." I think he gave us the fig tree parable so we could recognize THE SIGN OF HIS COMING AND THE END OF THE AGE.

In Luke 21:25-32, the Lord said, "THERE SHALL BE SIGNS IN THE SUN, AND IN THE MOON, AND IN THE STARS (astron, constellations) AND UPON THE EARTH DISTRESS OF NATIONS, WITH PERPLEXITY; THE SEA (nations, Rev. 17:15) AND THE WAVES (people) ROARING (echeo, loud sound, reverberating); Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man ('THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IN HEAVEN,' Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f) coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And WHEN THESE THINGS BEGIN TO COME TO PASS, THEN LOOK UP, AND LIFT UP YOUR HEADS; FOR YOUR REDEMPTION (apolutrosis, deliverance) DRAWETH NIGH. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth (spring), ye see and know of your own selves that SUMMER IS NOW NIGH AT HAND. So likewise ye, WHEN YE SEE THESE THINGS COME TO PASS, KNOW YE THAT THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NIGH AT HAND. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."

I think we've had signs in the Sun, Moon and constellations. There is on earth now distress of nations, with perplexity. Zech. 12:3 says, "in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it." Jerusalem has become a burdensome stone. Summer is near. Is the kingdom of God now nigh at hand? How would we know if there were no signs?

In Mt. 16:3, Jesus said to the Pharisees and Sadducees, "When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowering. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?" I hope we will do better than they did. Shalom and agape

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