Pro and Con 762

Posted 6-9-01

Great free online Bible program. Just putting the pointer over a Strong's number in the KJV brings it up fast. Clicking the Compare tab shows your verse in all the versions you have DL.
http://kingdomnet.com/freebibles/e-sword.htm

Look what I found. 2 Thess. 2:3-12 (WORLD ENGLISH BIBLE: "Let no one deceive you in any way. For it (the millennial Day of the Lord) will not be, unless the DEPARTURE (Pre-Trib Rapture) comes FIRST, and the man of sin (the False Prophet) is revealed, the son of destruction, he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things? Now you know what is restraining him, to the end that he may be revealed in his own season. For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way (at the Rapture). Then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nothing by the brightness of his coming; even he whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, and with all deception of wickedness for those who are being lost, because they didn't receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. Because of this, God sends them a working of error, that they should believe a lie; that they all might be judged who didn't believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness."
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PA officially requests UN peacekeepers
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2000/11/07/LatestNews/LatestNews.15072.html
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Fuel supply to PA stopped, water shortage expected
by Ha'aretz
http://www.virtualjerusalem.com/news/lateststories/?disp_feature=6haGHS.var
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6-9-01 - Un-Natural Storm And Deluge In Houston? From A Houston Resident
http://www.rense.com/general11/unnatural.htm
Any speculations what's behind the so-called Tropical Storm Allison? A "normal" tropical storm builds up for several days in the gulf. This one was non-existant until 2:00 pm Tuesday June 5, and by 6:00 pm the same day it was coming ashore with 60mph winds. A "normal" storm center keeps drifting inland as it steadily loses force and dissipates. This one has meandered around this quadrant of Texas all week, kept its strength, and is back by Houston again. Many residents are getting floodwater in their homes for the third time this week, as the downpours that resumed Friday evening June 8 have dumped up to 19 inches in seven hours. It's now 2:00 am Saturday and still pouring. What could be driving this thing?
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6-9-01The CIA director hosts Israeli and Palestinian security officials in Ramallah; Burns meets with Arafat (Reuters) (Note: Meetings coincide with Houston's catastrophic flooding.)
http://www.watch.org/articles.html?mcat=1

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Re: Major Eclipse June 21!
Pittsburgh Post Gazette 6-2-01
"Angola will import 6 million pair of protective glasses ahead of a total eclipse of the sun on June 21."
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6 Million!
This must be some eclipse! Isn't it interesting that it falls on that date? Perhaps, it will be blamed for a great number of disappearences. (grin) Keep looking up! Because of Him

My reply

Wow, that is a lot. Thanks for telling me the solar eclipse will be on June 21, first day of summer. I wonder which countries will be able to see it. I'm looking up. I figure I have already seen signs in the Sun, Moon and constellations. In Luke 21:28, Jesus said, "when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption (apolutrosis, riddance, deliverance, redemption) draweth nigh." Right after that, in the fig tree parable, he said "SUMMER IS NOW NIGH AT HAND" and "when ye see these things (trees shooting forth) come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand" (21:30,31).

In Luke 21:33-36, he said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day (the Rapture, when the kingdom of God is nigh at hand) COME UPON YOU UNAWARES. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE (ekpheugo, flee out) all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

I don't want to be caught unaware. Agape

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DANIEL’S TWO TIME QUESTIONS

QUESTION NUMBER ONE: Daniel 8.13
"How long will the things in this vision [of the little horn] last--the daily sacrifices, the turning away from God that brings destruction, the Temple being pulled down, and the army of heaven being walked on?" NCV

How long shall be the vision [of the little horn] concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? KJV

"How long will the events of this vision [of the little horn] last? How long will the rebellion that causes desecration stop the daily sacrifices? How long will the Temple and heaven's armies be trampled on?" NLT

"How long will it take for the vision [of the little horn] to be fulfilled--the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, the rebellion that causes desolation, and the surrender of the sanctuary and of the host that will be trampled underfoot?" NIV

"How long will the things in this [of the little horn] vision--the daily burnt offering, the destructive rebellion, the surrender of the holy place, and the trampling of the army--take place?"GWT

How long shall be the [little horn] vision of the continual and of the transgression that maketh desolate, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden down under foot? DNT

Till when is the [little horn] vision of the continual sacrifice, and of the transgression, an astonishment, to make both sanctuary and host a treading down? YLT

ANSWER NUMBER ONE: Daniel 8.14
2300 DAYS:
then the holy place will be repaired. NCV
then shall the sanctuary be cleansed. KJV
then the Temple will be restored. NLT
then the sanctuary will be reconsecrated. NIV
Then the holy place will be made acceptable to God. GWT
then shall the sanctuary be vindicated. DNT
then is the holy place declared right. YLT

QUESTION NUMBER TWO: Daniel 12.6
How long shall it be to the end of these wonders [of the vision of the little horn]?

ANSWER NUMBER TWO: Daniel 12.11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up [mid-tribulation], there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days [then the holy place will be made acceptable to God–Dan 8.14].

1st Half of Trib - 1260 days
Mid-trib to end of little horn vision-Dan 12.11-1290 days
Total-2550 days
Less-2300 days
150 days

The 2300 days of Daniel 8.14 begin 150 days after the Two Witnesses begin their 1260 day witness (Rev 11.30) on day one of the tribulation.

This is when the little horn is given his power by the confederacy of Ten and then overthrows three of the ten.

Let me know what you think of this. Agape

My reply

We are not told directly what the 1290 days of Dan. 12:11 apply to. Since the Israelites "mourned for Aaron thirty days." I thought they might mourn for the "goats" cast into the lake of fire at the Judgment of the Nations for those extra 30 days.

We are told in Dan. 12:7 that at the end of the "time, times, and an half," 3.5 years or the 2nd 1260 days, "ALL THESE THINGS SHALL BE FINISHED."

The end of the 70th week of Daniel would come when the 2nd 1260 days end. At that time, the 70 weeks of years end and wrap up all the things mentioned in Dan. 9:24. It says, "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to FINISH the transgression, and to make AN END of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and TO SEAL UP THE VISION AND PROPHECY, AND TO ANOINT THE HOST HOLY." I think that at the end of the 2nd 1260 days, dominion will be taken away from Satan at the Judgment of the Nations.

It seems to me that the "FINISH" of all these things is at the end of the 2nd 1260 days. How does it look to you when you think about these verses?

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Re: 2300 DAYS
In P&C 761, you gave a great reply to the person who said, "it's not our affair to know the times or the seasons which the Father has placed under his own authority." However, you failed to mention the scripture which completes the whole truth of the matter and exposes how only one-half of a Truth can be more deceptive than a 100% lie.

1 Thessalonians 5:1-2
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

Paul is reminding the Thessalonians to remember what they had been taught about the times and seasons of the Rapture. He says this some twenty-plus years AFTER the Spirit came at Pentecost and began to instruct the believers as to the times and seasons.

Also in P&C 761 you said, "Maybe the 2300 days end at the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008) instead of Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007)."

We know the second half of the tribulation is 1260 days (Dan 7:24-25, 12:6-7: Rev 11.2, 12.6, 13.5). However, Daniel 12.11 is clear on the fact that it will be 1290 days from mid-tribulation to the point in time when "the sanctuary be cleansed". It appears that these are two distinct events.

The first distinct event is a 1260 day time period beginning at mid-trib that ends (Dan12.7):
-When the power of the holy people has been completely shattered GWT
-at the completion of the scattering of the power of the holy people. YLT
-When the shattering of the holy people has finally come to an end NLT
-When the power of the holy people has been finally broken NIV
-when the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end NRSV

In my opinion, "the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end" on the Feast of Trumpets, the Jewish New Year, That Day, etc. If this is true, then this 1260 day period ends 1260 days after mid-tribulation.

The second distinct event occurs 1290 days after mid-trib. In 12.6, Daniel asked how long it would be to the end of the wonders of the vision of the little horn that began in chapter eight. The answer comes in verse 11. "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up [mid-tribulation], there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days". I believe the end of this 1290 day period of time is also the end of the 2300 day period of time that Daniel speaks of in 8.14 (when the sanctuary will be cleansed).

1st Half of Trib-1260 days
Mid-trib to end of little horn vision-Dan 12.11-1290 days
Total-2550 days
Less-2300 days
150 days

The 2300 days of Daniel 8.14 begin 150 days after the Two Witnesses begin their 1260 day witness (Rev 11.30) on Day One of the tribulation.

This is when the little horn is given his power by the confederacy of Ten. Let me know what you think of this. Agape

My reply

Thanks for your kind words, and for trying to help me figure this out. It is much appreciated.

> > you failed to mention the scripture which completes the whole truth of the matter and exposes how only one-half of a Truth can be more deceptive than a 100% lie.
> > 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2
But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

I'm confused as to what you mean here. Maybe I don't understand what verse you mean I left out. It can't be 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2. Here is what I quoted: "I Thess. 5:1-6 says, "But of the times and the seasons, brethren (believers), ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (the Millennium) so cometh as a thief in the night. For when THEY shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. But YE, BRETHREN (BELIEVERS), ARE NOT IN DARKNESS, THAT THAT DAY SHOULD OVERTAKE YOU AS A THIEF. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. THEREFORE LET US NOT SLEEP, AS DO OTHERS; BUT LET US WATCH AND BE SOBER."

> > Daniel 12.11 is clear on the fact that it will be 1290 days from mid-tribulation to the point in time when "the sanctuary be cleansed".

Dan. 12:11 just says, "from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination (shiqquwts, idol) that maketh desolate set up (Mid-Trib), there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days." It doesn't tell us that the sanctuary will be cleansed then. The sanctuary will be cleansed at the end of the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14. In the ASV, it says, "he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred evenings and mornings (i.e., days, Gen. 1:5); then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

Eze. 45:18 (ASV) says, "Thus saith the Lord Jehovah: In the first month, in the first day of the month (Nisan 1, v. 21), thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish; and thou shalt cleanse (chata, purify) the sanctuary. Notice that in the rest of the chapter, Pentecost and Trumpets are skipped. It goes from the Passover and 7 days of unleavened bread to the Feast of Tabernacles and its 7 days. Why do you think Pentecost/Feast of Harvest/Feast of Weeks and the Feast of Trumpets are omitted?

> > In my opinion, "the shattering of the power of the holy people comes to an end" on the Feast of Trumpets, the Jewish New Year, That Day, etc. If this is true, then this 1260 day period ends 1260 days after mid-tribulation.

Dan 12:7 (NAB) says, "The man clothed in linen, who was upstream, lifted his right and left hands to heaven; and I heard him swear by him who lives forever that it should be for a year, two years, a half-year (3.5 years or 1260 days); and that, when the power of the destroyer of the holy people was brought to an end, all these things should end."

This seems to show the intent, that when the power of the destroyer (Satan) is brought to an end, all these prophecies will have been fulfilled. This would be the end of the 2520 days (1260 + 1260 = 2520). It seems to me that the end of the 2520 days is when dominion is taken from Satan ('the god of this world,' II Cor. 4:4) at the Judgment of the Nations.

If the Feast of Trumpets of Sept. 13, 2007 is the Day of God's Wrath, we do not have 2520 days left between now and Sept. 13, 2007. We do not even have 2300 days. Therefore, I do not see how the 2520 days could end on that Feast of Trumpets. If we figured that the next Feast of Trumpets, on Sept. 30, 2008, was the termination of the 2520 days, It would be in the Jewish Year 5769. That is not a Sabbatic Year or a Jewish Leap Year. 5768 is both a Sabbatic Year and a Jewish Leap Year. In 5769, there couldn't be 7 months between the Feast of Trumpets and the following Nisan 1 as in Eze. 39:12,13. There would only be 6. I think the Feast of Trumpets in 2007 is the correct one. There are the necessary 7 months from Tishri 1 to the following Nisan 1, when I think the Second Advent will be (Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3).

> > 1st Half of Trib-1260 days
Mid-trib to end of little horn vision-Dan 12.11-1290 days
Total-2550 days
Less-2300 days
150 days
> > The 2300 days of Daniel 8.14 begin 150 days after the Two Witnesses begin their 1260 day witness (Rev 11.30) on Day One of the tribulation.
> > This is when the little horn is given his power by the confederacy of Ten.

At this point, I can't see it being that way, because it looks to me like the sanctuary is cleansed at the Second Coming on the 2300th day. I can't think of any other time that it would be cleansed if it is not on the Day of God's Wrath. Actually, the Second Advent makes more sense than the Day of God's Wrath 7 months before. Even though I knew what Eze. 45:18 and Dan. 8:14 said about cleansing the sanctuary, I hung on to the 2300 days for the shortened Tribulation because I thought the Feast of Weeks was such a perfect time for the 70th week of Daniel to start. With that hindrance out of the way, the only other time that fits seems to be the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5768.

I now see the cleansing of the sanctuary at the Second Advent at the end of the 2300 days. If we count back 2300 days from Nisan 1, 5768, we come to Teveth 6, 5761 (Dec. 21, 2001). That just happens to be the first day of winter. Isa. 18:3-6 (KJV) says, "All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when he lifteth up an ensign (flag) on the mountains (nations); and WHEN HE BLOWETH A TRUMPET, (i.e., first trump) HEAR YE. For so the LORD said unto me, I will take my rest, and I will consider (see, look) in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs, and like a cloud of dew in the heat of harvest. For afore the harvest (i.e., before the Rapture), when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower, he shall both cut off the sprigs with pruning hooks and take away AND CUT DOWN the branches (i.e., cut off the foolish Laodicean virgins). THEY SHALL BE LEFT (at the time of the Pre-Trib harvest) together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts of the earth: and the fowls shall SUMMER UPON THEM (then the Pre-Trib Rapture seems to be in the spring), and all THE BEASTS OF THE EARTH (the beasts of Rev. 13) SHALL WINTER UPON THEM."

It sounds like the Pre-Trib Rapture is in the spring and the first day of winter is the beginning of the Tribulation. Those left will go through the summer and then the winter. June 21 is the summer solstice. In the Northern Hemisphere, the summer solstice is when the Sun reaches its highest point in the sky at noon June 21. The winter solstice is when the Sun reaches its lowest point in the sky at noon Dec. 21. (The dates are reversed in the Southern Hemisphere.)

Remember Jesus may have given a clue in Mt. 24:20. He said to the disciples, "But pray ye that YOUR FLIGHT (phuge, ESCAPE) be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day." June 21, 2001 is Thursday, Sivan 30, 5761. This is in a Sabbatic Year, but not on the weekly Sabbath.

The 2nd 1260 days of the Tribulation are to be shortened. If the beginning of the Tribulation is on Dec. 21, 2001, and the 2300 days go to the Second Advent, the False Prophet's rule will be shorter than I thought. I took the 2300 days from beginning Trib to Second Advent, subtracted 207 days to back up to the previous Tishri 1, the Day of God's Wrath. Then I subtracted the 1260 days for the 1st half of the Tribulation and got 473 days for the rule of the False Prophet. That would be from the end of the 1st 1260 days to the Catastrophe. Does that sound reasonable?

Check my figures. I haven't had much time to think this through or to do much rechecking. See what you think. Agape

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FW: Clues-to-'The-Big-One?'
I've included the entire message from this report from Bill Koenig, but here is the paragraph I'd like you to see:

> > Scientists have estimated that there is a massive quake along the southern San Andreas Fault approximately every 150 years. The last time a "big one" occurred was on January 9, 1857. If you add 150 years to 1857, you come to the year 2007.

Just thought that was interesting. Blessings to you and your family.
Koenig's International News
http://www.watch.org/articles.html

My reply

Thanks. There may be clues here to something else besides the Big One.

> > Seismologists and Sin - John McTernan
> > Between April 1992, and October 1999, Southern California experienced four of some of the most powerful earthquakes to occur last century. The earthquakes were all within a very close distance to each other. The earthquakes were: Joshua Tree, 6.1, April 23, 1992; Landers, 7.6, June 28, 1992; Big Bear, 6.5, June 28, 1992; and Hector Mine, 7.1, October 16, 1999. Three of the earthquakes fell directly on the day of a national sin event, while the Hector Mine quake occurred just a few days after such an event.

We felt all 4 jolting shocks, and some aftershocks, but none were bad enough to break things where we were. I hadn't tied these earthquakes to the news and hadn't realized that "the pattern of earthquakes has been forming a triangle directly pointing west towards Los Angeles." This and the fact that they are not on the San Andreas Fault suggest that they are signs.

I got another e-mail saying, "FYI.........Second Passover.... For us???.....a Second Pentecost???" It is worth considering since there is a 2nd Passover a month later for those that could not keep Passover at the regular time. We don't know but what there could be a 2nd Pentecost. It would be the 2nd fulfillment too. Guess what date Tamuz 7, 5761 falls on--Yep! June 28, 2001. The Big Bear earthquake was just hours after the Landers earthquake on June 28, 1992. That sure emphasized June 28 with dramatic jolts that I felt. Maybe it was as if the Lord pounded his fist and said, "Look at this," and I missed the message.

To the Jews, Tamuz 7 will start at 6 PM the previous evening, as Tamuz 6 ends. Pentecost is kept on Sivan 6 and 7. The day Ed and I drove into the end of the rainbow, I had decided that Pentecost in 30 AD was on Sivan 7. Yet, the 2300 days seemed to start on Sivan 6. The Lord had to show me by the process of elimination that the 2300 days do not start on Sivan 6, 5761. They must stretch from Teveth 6, 5762 (Dec. 21, 2001) to the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5768 (April 6, 2008).

At intervals along the way, I kept wondering why Dan. 8:14 said that after the 2300 days, the sanctuary would be cleansed and Eze. 45:18 said, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month, thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and cleanse the sanctuary." I just could not see why the 70th week of Daniel would not start on the Feast of Weeks. It seemed a perfect time. Well, since hindsight is better than foresight, I see that the ceremonial cleansing of Nisan 1, 5768 (April 6, 2008) must be at the Second Advent at the end of the 2300 days, not the literal overflowing flood of Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007) seven months (Eze. 39:12,13) earlier.

There now seems to be time for a gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation, which Rev. 17:12-14 suggests. The setting is the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture. It says, "the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received NO KINGDOM AS YET; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall (in the future) give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall (in the future) make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM (at the Rapture) ARE (present tense) CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL." I think the called are the saved, and the chosen are the ones who are faithful. To be part of the Pre-Trib Rapture, the saved need to be "accounted worthy to escape" (Luke 21:36).

Back to earthquakes. I think an asteroid dug the great Pacific Basin. At that time odd terranes were piled up on the west coast. Those on the seaward side of the San Andreas Fault are still slowly moving north. If I remember right, it is about 4 inches per year. This builds up stress. Limestone formed at 40 degrees south is now found at 40 degrees north latitude. The San Francisco area got a great variety of mismatched terranes. No wonder there are earthquakes.

> > John points out that seismologists have been marveling at the Landers earthquake, which occurred on "Gay Pride Day"-June 28, 1992, because it triggered other earthquakes 800 miles away. Never in the history of seismology has an earthquake triggered others so far away.
> > The Hector Mine earthquake (October 16, 1999) followed shortly after the signing of major homosexual legislation regarding "domestic partnerships and discrimination" in California. That earthquake will trigger future earthquakes along the San Andreas Fault (and 130 miles south to the Salton Sea), which has alarmed seismologists.

The 7 years between 1992 and 1999 could be on purpose, to call attention to these quakes. God works in 7s.

> > The Joshua Tree quake was alarming to seismologists. This quake tore a 15-mile gash in the earth and was felt from San Diego to Las Vegas to Phoenix. It caused over 6,000 aftershocks.

We only felt a few of these aftershocks.

> > In the May 10, 2001, issue of Nature, Dr. Andrew M. Freed states the following: "Stress changes in the crust due to an earthquake can hasten the failure of neighboring faults and induce earthquake sequences in some cases. The Hector Mine earthquake in Southern California M7.1 occurred only 20 km from, and 7 years after, the 1992 Landers earthquake M7.3. This suggests that the Hector Mine earthquake was triggered in some fashion by the earlier event."
> > Dr. Freed then went on to state all these earthquakes Joshua Tree, Landers, Big Bear and Hector Mine are in a sequence. Freed stated: "The June 1992 Landers earthquake M7.3, was part of an earthquake sequence that began with the April 1992 M.6.1 Joshua Tree pre-shock and continued with the M6.2 Big Bear aftershock only a few hours after the Landers rupture."
> > The scientists are showing a strong correlation in the sequence of these earthquakes. They are trying to identify the triggering device. These earthquakes are dangerously close to the massive San Andreas Fault, and the Hector Mine quake actually triggered small earthquakes near this fault. This sequence of quakes is following precisely a sequence of national sinful events. It seems the physical and spiritual realms are running on parallel tracks that are touching each other. Could the sinful acts be the triggering device the scientists are looking for? Could April 23, 1992, be the date that started the countdown sequence toward the massive San Andreas earthquake, which will devastate California? The breaking of God's moral laws is clearly affecting the physical laws....
> > It is no coincidence these powerful earthquakes are falling directly on days of national sin. The warnings from God are crystal clear, without any doubt. Scientists estimate that there is a massive quake along the southern San Andreas Fault approximately every 150 years. The last time was January 9, 1857. It is very possible that the next massive quake could be the tearing of the dreaded San Andreas Fault.

Since I think the worldwide earthquake will come on Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007), and every wall will fall (Eze. 38:20), The San Andreas Fault will probably let loose its pent-up energy then. I wonder what will happen to Hawaii, Japan and all the coastlands of the world. Agape

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