Pro and Con 764

Posted 6-13-01

Note: The Solar Eclipse of 6-21-01 will NOT be visible in Israel.
Total Solar Eclipse of 2001 June 21
...2001 June 21, a total eclipse of the Sun will be visible from within a narrow corridor which traverses the Southern Hemisphere. The path of the Moon's umbral shadow begins in the South Atlantic and crosses southern Africa, and Madagascar and ends at sunset in the Indian Ocean. A partial eclipse will be seen within the much broader path of the Moon's penumbral shadow, which includes eastern South America and most of Africa (excluding north Africa).
Animation of Total Solar Eclipse of 2001 June 21 Everyone located within the penumbra's path will see a partial eclipse of the Sun on June 21. Outside the path, no eclipse is visible.
Palestinians, Israel Accept U.S. Ceasefire Plan, By Wafa Amr

6-12-01 - RAMALLAH, West Bank (Reuters) - CIA Director George Tenet won Palestinian acceptance on Wednesday for a "work plan" already approved by Israel to end eight months of bloodshed.

"We have accepted the American document. Implementation will begin tomorrow," Palestinian Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo told reporters after the U.S. spy chief held late-night talks on Tuesday with President Yasser Arafat in the West Bank....

Raanan Gissin, a spokesman for Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, said it called for an "end to violence" followed by a six-week cooling-off period....

"The Palestinian side did not sign this document (Tenet's plan) today," Abed Rabbo said. "Palestinians will sign it only when the whole package on the Mitchell recommendations is agreed, foremost being a halt to all settlement activities. This paper is considered a working plan as part of a whole package."

He said the Palestinians expected Washington to work toward lifting an Israeli blockade of Palestinian towns and moving Israeli troops back to positions held before the uprising....
Arafat seen 'boxed in' by Israeli cease-fire, By Herb Keinon

JERUSALEM (June 13) - Israel's acceptance of the Mitchell Report and its unilateral cease-fire have pushed Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat into a corner, and brought upon him intense US, European, and even Arab pressure to stop the violence, a senior security source said yesterday....

"This boxes Arafat in, places everything on his lap," the official said. "Now the whole world will be able to tell whether Arafat is truly a national leader, or whether he will once again miss an opportunity and is nothing more than a gang lord."...

According to the senior security official, Arafat has made two strategic decision which he does not think will change: He wants a Palestinian state on all the territories won by Israel in the 1967 war, with his capital in Jerusalem, and no Israeli control over the Temple Mount. And he believes that constant terror will either force Israel to give him what he wants, or lead to an internationalization of the conflict....
Israel, Palestinians urge continued EU role in Middle East LUXEMBOURG, June 11 (AFP) ...Israeli Foreign Minister Shimon Peres and Palestinian international cooperation minister Nabil Shaath made the appeal in separate meetings with EU foreign ministers, ahead of the EU-US and European summits in Gothenburg, Sweden later this week....

Incoming email

From: CAPS - Sent: 6-9-01
Here is a verse that may apply to the New Moon on the 21st of June. It would be the time when the moon is hidden and would picture the Church not being seen, i.e. a dark, hidden moon. In Matthew 24:32-34 Jesus said "..when his branch is yet tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that SUMMER is NEAR. So likewise, when you see all these things, KNOW that He is NEAR, even at the doors."

Perhaps the SEASON of the grain harvest, concluding with Pentecost, goes until the start of summer.

1Sa 20:5
"And David said unto Jonathan, Behold, to morrow is the new moon, and I should not fail to sit with the king at meat..." God Bless. CAPS -

My reply

Thanks for reminding me that June 21 is the New Moon. It is the last day of the Jewish month of Sivan. The next day is Tamuz 1 (Heb. tammuz). According to Hitchcock's Bible Names on my new free e-Sword Bible program, Tammuz means concealed.

Unger's Bible Dictionary lists for Tammuz "Wheat harvest on highest districts; various fruits ripe." That would include grapes. Joshua and Caleb went with the others to spy out the promised land at "the time of the firstripe grapes" (Nu. 13:20). Jesus is Joshua from the Hebrew, so Joshua represents Jesus, and Caleb was a believer who was saved. His name means a basket. That is neat. The world church is called an ephah, the largest wheat measure in Zech. 5:5-11. The Bride of Christ could be likened to a smaller basket. I have read of the ephah being compared to a bushel basket. Joshua and Caleb hung on to their faith that the Lord would give them the promised land even when everyone else lost theirs.

Symbolically, since Christ is the "Sun of righteousness" that will "arise with healing in his wings" (Mal. 4:2), the Bride of Christ could be likened to the Moon. Both the Sun and Moon will be together in the sky on June 21.

Gen. 37:9-11 says of Joseph, "he dreamed yet another dream, and told it his brethren, and said, Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me. And he told it to his father, and to his brethren: and his father rebuked him, and said unto him, What is this dream that thou hast dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? And his brethren envied him; but his father observed the saying." Rachel (the ewe sheep), the wife of Jacob/Israel, was represented by the Moon. She had died giving birth to Benjamin, so she can also represent the dead in Christ that will be resurrected.

Eph. 1:20 says of Christ, "he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the HEAVENLY PLACES." Eph. 2:6 says he "hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in HEAVENLY PLACES in Christ Jesus." At the time of the eclipse, both the Sun and Moon will be in Gemini, where the Bride and Bridegroom are sitting together in heavenly places. That seems like a pretty good sign.

In Gemini, the Bride is holding a harp, a symbol of redemption, as in Lyra, the harp. It is pictured as an eagle rising heavenward with a harp and singing at the top of its lungs with joy. Isa. 40:31 says, "they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; THEY SHALL MOUNT UP WITH WINGS AS EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint." After the Rapture, the elders will play their "harps," and we will sing the "new song" of praise to the Lord (Rev. 5:8,9). The brightest star in Lyra is Vega, which appropriately means HE SHALL BE EXALTED. Agape

Incoming e-mail

Re: 3rd heaven
i watched Perry Stone's Mannafest show today and he was talking about the 3rd heaven. he said it lies beyond our universe(2nd heaven) and between the 3rd heaven and the 2nd heaven is what he calls the "black cloud" and what scientists calls "dark matter". i guess it's almost like some kind of shield or blanket that blind any telescope from penetrating it. does that in anyway come in conflict with your idea that saturn might be the heaven of god's throne?

My reply

> > does that in anyway come in conflict with your idea that saturn might be the heaven of god's throne?

Yes. Scofield's note in my study Bible at II Cor. 12 hindered my acceptance of where the clues led me for years and years. I'd read certain scriptures, think of Saturn, then I would say to myself, "Nah, that can't be" and remembering Scofield's note, I'd throw it out. Scofield's note says, "First heaven, of clouds; second, of stars; third, God's abode." Well, I agree with R.B. Thieme, Jr., that Scofield was a genius, but even a genius can make a mistake. That is just a characteristic of human beings. We are not perfect. The "third heaven," the "paradise" that Paul was taken to is, in my mind, (1st) Mars, (2nd) Jupiter, and (3rd) Saturn.

Rev. 4:3 says, "he that sat (on the throne) was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone." These are the first and the last stones in the breastplate, i.e., Christ is the first ( LORD of the Old Testament) and the last (Lord of the New Testament), (Rev. 1:17; 22:13). Continuing in 4:3, it says, "there was a RAINBOW ROUND ABOUT THE THRONE, in sight like unto an emerald." The emerald is Judah's stone in the breastplate. Christ is the Lion of the tribe of Judah.

Eze. 1:28 says, "As the appearance of the BOW THAT IS IN THE CLOUD IN THE DAY OF RAIN, SO WAS THE APPEARANCE OF THE BRIGHTNESS ROUND ABOUT. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD." Eze. 1:26 says, "above the firmament that was over their heads (above the terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (Christ) above upon it."

Sapphire is the symbol of Heaven. In Ex. 24:10, "they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a SAPPHIRE stone, and as it were the body of heaven (heavenly body) in his clearness." What finally convinced me was when I looked up sapphire in Webster's dictionary. It means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear. Sinai is probably derived from Sani. The pavement as the appearance of a sapphire was seen on Sinai, a symbol of Heaven.

Saturn is the third heaven. It is above the terrestrial planets, and its symbol is a sapphire stone. New Jerusalem's foundations are adorned with precious stones, among them, a sapphire. The precious stones listed in Eze. 38:13 represent the planets, and the sapphire is there.

Job 22:14 says, "Thick clouds are a covering to him, that he seeth not; and he walketh in the circuit of heaven." This circuit is the ecliptic that the Sun, Moon and planets travel. In the gospel in the stars, Ophiuchus represents Christ wrestling with Satan (Serpens) to keep him from reaching the crown (Corona). Ophiuchus walks right on the ecliptic. In Gemini, the Bride and Bridegroom sit in heavenly places on the ecliptic. Cancer represents Heaven as the assembled multitude. Decans of Cancer are the ship Argo and the Greater and Lesser Sheepfolds. All have something to do with the 2 Raptures. In ancient pictures, there were two ships. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Animation of Total Solar Eclipse of June 21, 2001
...I found something you might like to put on your web-site, as far as an animation of that June 21 eclipse of the sun.

Here is the animation URL:
Here is the URL to its homepage. The whole site is very informitive.

I'll keep the message short. But I must add my 9 month old pregnant kitty-cat Princess was acting odd this morning. She kept looking for a way to get up in a high place in my bedroom. Looking up at shelves, and then climbing up there. Then giving the ceiling a thorough inspection. Looking at the trap door on the celing that goes to the attic. Then looking out the window way up in the sky. Never seen her studying The Above with such intensity!... That 11 numbers thing is related to subjects of psi (it's discussed in advanced geometry)....

My reply

I'm looking up too. Thanks much for sending me these URLs. I found out that Israel will not be able to see the eclipse. NASA should have the straight story on that.

I wonder about the cat. Animals seem to sense some things we don't, a coming earthquake for instance. Are the dead in Christ rising, or something? Maybe we will find out soon....Agape

Incoming email

Re: Damascus
> > From P&C 761: I don't see why anyone would think Damascus is to be destroyed now. Isa. 17:7,11,13 says...It is the Day of God's Wrath, when Gog's army attacks Israel and the Lord saves them.

I can see about Damasucs in Amos 1:3-5 which coincides with Zechariah 14:5 and Joel 3:16

Also, do you think that everyone will be able to see Jesus when He comes or will it be just those in Israel and the rest of us will just be "in the know"? Agape

My reply

When Jesus comes at the Rapture, he won't be seen from Earth. We will rise to meet him in the clouds. I Thess. 4:17 says, "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

Of the Second Advent, Rev. 1:7 says, "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen." Zech. 12:10,11 says, "they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem." I think the extra 30 days of Dan. 12:11 are for this mourning. Agape

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Re: Tarrying
The Lord is tarrying because he is still moving in peoples lives. I think that most churches would report a drop in commitments for Christ however there are many still rocking for the Lord. There have been some major youth crusades in the South that have brought many to Christ. God "does not wish that any perish" praise the Lord! Also remember the prodigal son story and the reaction of the oldest son that was faithful to the father. The father was disturbed by his "saved/faithful son" reaction to his lost younger brother who regained his proper mind and returned to the father begging forgiveness. LET US NOT WISH FOR THE RAPTURE AS MUCH AS WE SHOULD BE WATCHING FOR IT! WE WANT ALL OF OUR BROTHERS AND SISTERS TO COME TO CHRIST PRIOR TO THE RAPTURE! Our timing is not the LORD'S. We should do ALL that we can to bring others to Christ in the little time that remains. Keep it up as you are doing a GREAT job for the kingdom. Yours in CHRIST

My reply

Thanks. I'm doing my best. Agape

Incoming email

Re: "..but the dead know nothing"
Please comment on the following:
Ecclesiastes 9:5 tells us, "For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing." see also verse 10, and Psalm 146: 3,4.

However: Jesus told the thief that he will be with Him, that day, in paradise.

Some people say that the next thing they will be aware of after death is the "resurrection unto judgement' - doesn't matter if they were dead 2 days or 2 thousand years. What say you?

Thanks for your time - hope you and Ed are up and about and feeling well. -

My reply

Sorry to be so long answering. It is easy to lose track with 548 messages in my Inbox.

Ecclesiastes is written from man's viewpoint. When someone dies, as far as we can tell, "the dead know nothing." Of course God knows different. Solomon reasoned that no matter how much he had, it was all vanity.

Psa. 147:4 is a contrast. We are not to trust in man. If he dies, we will be let down. In the next verses, we see that we are to trust in God instead of man. He "keepeth truth for ever" (v. 6). "The LORD shall reign for ever" (v. 10).

Psa. 149: 5 shows the dead alive after they are in Heaven. It says, "Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them sing aloud upon their beds." I don't think we ever really die. Only our body dies.

We are well. Agape

Incoming email

...The last P & C was REALLY exciting about the upcoming new moon, planet positions, and the number 1111- which my daughter and I have also been "plagued" by (along with the 111,222, etc.) trying hard not to be too excited about this window of a solar eclipse, "nigh unto summer" and the promise of a soon appearing...however, it appears to me to be worthy of excitement! Waiting prayerfully with you.

My reply

The eclipse will not be seen in Israel or the northern part of Africa. NASA should know the straight story about that. However, there will be an eclipse. If I remember right, the total part is in a narrow band starting in the Atlantic and traveling across Africa and Madagascar, ending in the Indian Ocean. The penumbra, partial eclipse, will be seen in some of S. America, much of Africa, but not the northern part.

It is interesting that there will be a total solar eclipse caused by the dark New Moon, almost like they both disappear, which reminds me of what will happen at the Rapture. We will disappear from Earth and go with the "Sun of righteousness" of Mal. 4:2.

I recounted the 2300 days. They would have to start on Dec. 20 instead of Dec. 21 and end on April 6, 2008. The 20th is the eve of the 1st day of winter. I'd like to count all the time periods, but it's already 1:10 AM. I better get some sleep. Agape

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Re: bible contradiction?

i read a few material off an atheist internet site. they were giving a list of supposed contradictions in the bible. i cannot reconcile these two seeming contradictions, can you help me to resolve it? thank you. here they are...

Who is the father of Joseph?

MAT 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ.

LUK 3:23 And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age, being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli.

How many stalls and horsemen?

KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand stalls of horses for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.

CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand stalls for horses and chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

My reply

> > Who is the father of Joseph?


The other geneaology is Mary's. Her father was Heli. Joseph is the son-in-law of Heli. The word for "son" is not in the Greek, but is correctly supplied by the translators in accord with Jewish usage. The list was stated this way so it could be given by naming the MALES in the line all the way back to David and on to Adam.

Jesus was the adopted son of Joseph. Therefore Joseph's genealogy is given to show that Joseph was descended from David and was in the kingly line. Both Joseph and Mary were descended from David.

> > How many stalls and horsemen?
> > KI1 4:26 And Solomon had forty thousand STALLS OF HORSES for his chariots, and twelve thousand horsemen.
> > CH2 9:25 And Solomon had four thousand STALLS FOR HORSES AND CHARIOTS, and twelve thousand horsemen; whom he bestowed in the chariot cities, and with the king at Jerusalem.

Just read them carefully. Solomon had 40,000 stalls of horses plus 4000 stalls that would hold both horses and chariots. Agape

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FWD: Ron Reese 6-13-01 - "DO THE BIRTH PANGS END ON June 21, 2001?"

My reply

Ron Reese thinks we are already in the Tribulation. He applies things that belong in the Tribulation to today. I don't think that will work out right. The sudden destruction belongs to the 1st day of the Millennium, the end of the shortened Great Tribulation. He said, "The remainder of this letter will only deal with the second clue - the birth pangs of the Sudden Destruction, Great Tribulation, and/or the Firstfruits Rapture." The 2nd Rapture belongs with the sudden destruction. The 1st Rapture is before the Tribulation even begins.

However, June 20, last day of spring, would fit a spring Rapture. June 21 is the 1st day of summer and the longest day in the year. The solar eclipse is on the 21st. Since Christ is the "Sun of righteousness" in Mal. 4:2, maybe the Bride could be likened to the Moon. That day is both the solar eclipse and the dark New Moon. That could show that neither the Bride nor the Bridegroom will be seen on Earth that day. Wednesday and Thursday, June 20 and 21, 2001 are Sivan 29 and 30, 5761 on the Jewish Talmudic calendar. The eclipse is in Gemini, which seems to be the sign of the Rapture, when the Bride sits in heavenly places with the Bridegroom.

If the Rapture was on June 20, the Tribulation might start on Dec. 20. That is 2300 days, by Jewish inclusive reckoning, to April 6, 2008 (Nisan 1, 5768), when I think the Second Advent will take place. Isa. 18:6 says of the foolish Laodicean virgins, "the fowls shall SUMMER upon them, and all the beasts of the earth shall WINTER upon them." June 21 is the 1st day of summer, Dec. 21 the 1st day of winter. The fowls might summer on them on June 21. The beasts of Rev. 13 might winter on them on Dec. 21. Mt. 24:20,21 says, "But PRAY YE THAT YOUR FLIGHT BE NOT IN THE WINTER...For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be." Our flight seems to be in the spring, not in the winter, but the Tribulation may begin in winter.

Mark 4:32 says of the mustard seed, "when it is sown, it groweth up, and becometh greater than all herbs, and shooteth out great branches; so that the fowls of the air may lodge under the shadow of it." This great tree pictures the world church which will move its headquarters to Babylon in the Tribulation. Rev. 18:2 says that Babylon has become "a cage of every unclean and hateful bird." The Tribulation Pope and his associates would SUMMER upon the foolish Laodicean virgins, and the two beasts of Rev. 13 would WINTER upon them.

Ron said, "September 29, 2000, is easily the most obvious date for the conception of the baby in 1 Thessalonians 5:3. Adding 266 days, the length of the gestation period of the baby, to September 29, 2000, should give us the date the baby is due to be born. AND GUESS WHAT?!! THAT'S RIGHT!!! JUNE 20-21 IS THE DUE DATE FOR THE BABY TO BE BORN!!! HALLELUJAH!!!" The primary time this applies to is when all Israel is born in a day (Isa. 66:8). However, since I think the 2nd Rapture happens on that same day, it is like the last foot of the Body of Christ being born. Thus, the first foot being born might be the Rapture of the Bride of Christ. Sept. 30, 2000 was Tishri 1. Adding 266 days, using inclusive reckoning, I get Fri. Tamuz 1, 5761 (June 22, 2001). That could be in the ballpark. Babies can come a bit early. My first one came a week early.

We need to get ready, stay ready and keep watching, especially the peace-treaty news coming from Israel, Vatican City, the EU and UN.

In his other file posted the same day on 5doves, Ron said, "The moon occults Saturn (representing Satan) on June 19 and occults Jupiter (representing God) on June 21. These are the only 2 days in June that any planets are occulted (hidden).

I think Saturn is Christ's throne, so I disagree on its representing Satan. I think Satan's planet was Rahab, now our Asteroid Belt, and that he now lives on a piece of it called Wormwood (Rev. 8:11).

Ron also said, "June 19-21 would be the 40th day of summer for the Jews and Hindus."

If June 21 is the first day of summer, it is not the "40th day of summer" for anyone. In the northern hemisphere, it is the first day of summer, in the southern hemisphere, the first day of winter.

Ron also said, "June 19 or 20 would be our last day of Spring in the States and Europe. June 20 or 21 would be the first day of summer. There are all kinds of Scriptures indicating that the first Rapture takes place in the Spring and right as summer is about to start (Jesus said when you see these things, you know that summer is NEAR)."

Summer is near in the fig tree parables, in Mt. 24:32: Mk. 13:28; and Luke 21:30. Luke 21:29-36 says, "a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel), and all the trees (nations); When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that SUMMER IS NOW NIGH AT HAND. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NIGH AT HAND. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Agape

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Updated 6-13-01