Frank R Molver (19 June) Re: "Locust army plague"
The enemy was all around: Mormon crickets, as they are known here, huge hordes of them, some marching across the dirt road, some munching on nearby foliage, some munching on each other....
From Marilyn: We were on our way from Tennessee to California and wanted to make the desert at night. At 3 AM, the truck, full of furniture, that Ed was driving lost the 2 right rear wheels just out of Quartzite, Arizona. Lucky that Ed flagged down someone that lived in the area. He went back to Quartzite and woke up a mechanic who handled all the wrecks in the mountains we had just come down out of. The mechanic told us that the truck would have turned over if Ed had driven one more foot. As it was, he had to use a railroad jack, and wouldn't let us near that side of the truck, afraid the sand would not hold it very long. The garage got it fixed about noon. The lug bolts had shorn off, because they hadn't been tightened enough when we had a flat fixed while we ate breakfast. With 2 small kids crying from the heat, we drove 23 miles to Blythe, rented a motel and went to sleep. Not knowing that the lights were bug lights, we turned them off. We awoke to a real nightmare. Huge black crickets zoomed everywhere. We had to duck, and bat at them to keep them off of us. Outside, dead ones had been swept into huge piles everywhere we went. I have never seen anything like that before or since. I feel for those that are facing such now. We got a bite to eat and left ASAP. Whew! and thank you Lord for getting us through this.
Makes no sense, or does it? Now the most recent dream I had was referring to the rapture, and as God is in Heaven above, I did not read your recent Pro Con 763. Are you ready for this? My dream was the rapture taking place. People were being raptured around me but it was sort of a dramatic type rapture only because I am a sc-fi fan that people were being raptured that way. The beaming away type rapture like star trek or something. But the light was a beautiful blue that each person was beamed away by. Now when I seen this occurring (by the way each person was raptured seconds apart)
I immediately dropped to my knees in prayer and asked God please find me worthy to be raptured and I was. Now the amazing part is this, two words were mentioned. I was not even thinking of this word and how I dug this up I can't even guess. The word was Solstice a complicated word for a dream.
Also Harvest mentioned with that word. I am currently reading your Pro Con 763 and before I even got a little way through it, I left the web sight and started writing this e-mail. I had a hard time the following day to remember that word, but I did. Could this be just because we all want this to happen, that we are flooding our minds with fantasies about a rapture? Who knows but it is wonderful! Bless you Marylyn Agee for this sight, it is a joy to read it and the excitement that everyone shows means they truly love our Father in Heaven.
It is neat that it was pulsating and had a cross on it. Someone else saw Aldebaran pulsating a while back. Ordinarily, planets don't wink like stars do, so this seems unusual. Thanks for sharing it with me. Agape
There are also seven months "by Jewish inclusive reckoning" between June 21, 2001 and Dec. 21, 2001. Do you see what I'm getting at? Hope Ed is doing well! Agape
There are 7 months between Tishri 1, 5768 (Tishri 1, 5768) and Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008). Israel buries the bodies during the 7 months (Eze. 39:12,13) between these 2 dates. I am scooting the end of the 2300 days forward 7 months, because the sanctuary will be cleansed on Nisan 1 (Dan. 8:13,14; Eze. 45:18). This moves the beginning of the 2300 days forward 7 months. Is this what you see, or do you see something else?
Ed is ok. He just had a doppler ultrasound done on the carotid arteries in his neck. We haven't heard the results.
I said: "...The dead are raised "first" and then is the catching away. The only pattern we have for the dead raising and and the ascension is in the Gospels. The dead was raised and remained on earth,"changed" for 40 days being seen of many."
Our pattern is the Lord Himself. Not the dead Old Testament saints that was recorded in Matthew. Jesus was dead but was raised "changed". The Old Testament saints were not. They were being taken up. In the resurrection, the dead are coming back with Jesus to recieve the same body with us that Jesus has. They don't have it yet.
I THESSALONIANS 4:14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
I THESSALONIANS 4:15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive [and] remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
You make an interesting point concerning Jesus not being touched, but that would not be in The Brides pattern She is told she will meet him in the clouds with the "changed" dead. So you see, the dead come back, Bride members are changed together with them and then the catching away occurs. Jesus apparently rose, ascended, returned and was seen of them for 40 days.
ACTS 1:3: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God. Regards, Stephen Martin
It seems that you are saying that the Rapture can't take place June 21st because you have not seen any resurrected saints yet. The Rapture may not take place on June 21, but I don't see why we have to see resurrected saints before we can be raptured. When Jesus ascended on the 40th day after Resurrection Day, were resurrected saints seen first? In Mt. 25:1f, did the wise virgins see resurrected saints before they went with the Bridegroom? In Rev. 3:8, are the Philadelphians told that they can't go through the "open door" that is set before them until the resurrected saints appear? In Rev. 4:1, did one of the elders, John, see any resurrected saints or even the other 23 elders before he was caught up to Heaven to receive his crown and to be seated with the other 23?
> > The dead was raised and remained on earth,"changed" for 40 days being seen of many. " > > Our pattern is the Lord Himself. Not the dead Old Testament saints that was recorded in Matthew.
Sorry if I misunderstood what you were trying to say. Mt. 27:53 uses similar language. The graves were opened, "And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and APPEARED UNTO MANY." Where does your "being seen of many"" come from? I searched the KJV for "seen of many" without finding it.
The way I see it, there are 2 Raptures, the Pre-Trib and the Pre-Wrath, and there are 2 trumps of God to call the saints to the heavenly assembly. These 2 trumps of God are prefigured by the 2 silver trumpets the LORD had Moses make. Nu. 10:2-4 says, "Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (both, i.e., at the last trump), ALL (as in I Cor. 15:51) the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at THE DOOR (symbol of a Rapture, 'door' in Rev. 3:8, 'doors' in Mt. 24:34) of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET (i.e., the first Rapture), then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel (the elders), shall gather themselves unto thee." This does not hint that we have to see the resurrected saints 40 days before moving out.
I Thess. 4:13-18 is talking about the first "TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR." This does not require a time for the dead in Christ to appear to many for 40 days before the rest of us can "be caught up together with them." When Jesus signs off in the last chapter of the Bible, he says, "Surely I come quickly. He comes quickly at the Rapture (Rev. 2:5; 3:11). That doesn't sound like we have 40 days ahead of the Rapture to view the resurrected dead. Do you think Christ will come quickly, then wait around 40 days before catching up his Bride?
I Cor. 15:51 is talking about the "LAST TRUMP" of God, i.e., the 2nd Rapture, when we shall all be changed (allasso, made different). The dead are "raised in incorruption," I Cor. 15:42, but the ones who have not died will be changed. We must all be made incorruptible and immortal. This doesn't require a 40-day preceding period to view any resurrected dead, either. We "shall ALL be changed, IN A MOMENT, IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE" (I Cor. 15:51).
> > ACTS 1:3...To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
Jesus was seen 40 days. I don't think the saints were. I think they were taken to Heaven the same day they came out of their graves after Jesus was resurrected. Therefore, I expect all of the Bride group, living or dead, to be caught up together in a short time.
I don't know whether or not the resurrected saints will show themselves to us until we are in the air. If you find any proof that we will see them on the ground ahead of time, I would appreciate your letting me know. My mom, dad and brother will be in that group. Ed's mom, dad, brother and cousin that was raised with him as a brother will also be in that group. What a reunion that will be. Where will that take place? Agape
Jer. 23:18-20 says, "who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it? Behold, a WHIRLWIND (caar, hurricane) of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked (the False Prophet, II Thess. 2:8; Zech. 11:17). The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider (biyn, understand) it perfectly." This could not be understood before the discovery of asteroids that are in cometary orbits.
Zech. 11:17 says, "Woe to the idol shepherd (False Prophet) that leaveth the flock! (moves to Babylon) the sword (Sword of the Lord, the asteroid) shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened."
Jer. 12:12 says, "the SWORD OF THE LORD shall devour from the one end of the land even to the other end of the land: no flesh shall have peace." This was demonstrated in Judges 7:20: "the three companies BLEW THE TRUMPETS, AND BRAKE THE PITCHERS (made of clay), and held the lamps in their left hands, and the trumpets in their right hands to blow withal: and they cried, The SWORD OF THE LORD, and of Gideon."
On this day, the three companies (i.e., the 3rd rank in the First Resurrection) will win over their enemies. Christ and the rest of the sheaf raised from their graves on Resurrection Day were the 1st rank. The 2nd rank will be the Pre-Trib Rapture. The 3rd rank will be the Pre-Wrath Rapture preceding but on the same day that the Sword of the Lord impacts Earth Rev. 8:8,10) at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5).
The last Rapture at the "last trump" will be as the days of Lot. Luke 17:29 says, "the same day that Lot (meaning wrapped up, hidden, covered, myrrh) went out of Sodom (meaning their secret, burning) it RAINED FIRE AND BRIMSTONE FROM HEAVEN, and destroyed them all." Agape
To this I answer that Jesus is our pattern. Not the dead that were delivered out of captivity by Jesus. At the resurrection, all the Bride saints of the ages are raised to partake of a changed body as Jesus had. They are his "Bride". We do not "prevent" them which were asleep. And their spirits are brought with the Lord when he comes. Then the Bride and them are all "changed" in the moment and twinkling of an eye. It dose not say we are "caught up in a moment and twinkling of an eye" It only says, that we are "all" changed. It is not a matter of them "showing" themselves to the Bride, it is a matter of the Bride being changed with them. Then together they would like Jesus minister to the saints that were not of that number and had to go into the Trib. It is recorded that Jesus was seen of up to 500 people during that 40 days. I am sorry that my saying "being seen of many" threw you.
ACTS 1:3: To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:
I said, "But to my way of thinking, not this spring for I have heard of no reports of saints seeing the dead amongst us or saints being changed."
When something is "common" to you, I guess we can shorten it up thinking others know how you are thinking. In other words if you told me your mother appeared to you, my ears would perk up. This would mean two things to me. Marliyn Agee and I did not partake of the Bride company but one appeared to her in that number. As the foolish virgin, I could take heart. If You and some others appeared to me changed, I would know you were in the number, I was not Etc. Get the picture? Surely there would be reports amongst us of such things.
As I have written before, I am associated with the Branham Message. It is generally believed amongst us that the time of the Rapture is a time of world turmoil and catastrophy. We belive the Shout of Thess. has already gone forth. We do not see that verse as just happening in a few hours. Of course there is much explaination for this and time and space do not allow for me to try to justify that view before you now. But we cannot assume that time frames in the Scriptures are always as they appear in black and white. An example is ISAIAH 61:1: The Spirit of the Lord GOD [is] upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to [them that are] bound;
ISAIAH 61:2: To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;
Jesus stop short of declaring the day of "vengence" because there was to be a 2000 year gap before that time. That is not to say the Shout went forth with that many years between it and the rest of the verse. But you know what I mean. Sequences of time are not a fast as we might read them. As far as the mystery of the "change" being declared in the parables of say the 10 virgins why would it have to be? We know the foolish vigins cryed out, "open to us" open what? Why could it not be the "change" of the body that they know they missed?
You consider yourself the "wise virgin" do you have the foolish knocking on your door saying "open to us"? When that body change happens, there is no doubt in believers minds what has happened and who "flys" and who "dies". Those that are "changed" Dead and Living, are the ones that meet the Lord in the Air. The others do not.
The Lord comes quickly to do what? To first Change the Worthy saints. That must be first before they meet him in the air. I cannot say about the foolish.That is I do not have an exacting view on them. I believe they are changed but at what time I am not sure. They evidently give their lives and come up at the end of the Tribulation. Regards, Stephen Martin
In this verse, we are "all" changed at the "last trump, not the first trump. There has to be some change at the first trump too, for we wouldn't be able to breath in space, but it isn't stated in I Thess. 4:13-18.
In II Cor. 12:2,3, Paul said, "I knew a man (actually Paul himself, v. 5-7) in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell (eido, know); or whether out of the body, I cannot tell (eido): God knoweth (eido);) such an one caught up to the third heaven (1 Mars, 2 Jupiter, 3 Saturn). And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell (eido): God knoweth (eido)." We may be as Paul, not being able at first to tell what change has taken place.
I Cor. 15:35,42-44 says, "How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?...So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body."
Sandwiched into the middle of this, verse 40 says, "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another." Maybe we will have spiritual bodies at the first trump, then get celestial ones when we are made immortal at the last trump. I can't be sure about that, but I can be sure that "we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" (I Cor. 15:53). It can be a two-stage event, putting on incorruption at the first "trump of God" Rapture and immortality after the "last trump" Rapture.
> > It only says, that we are "all" changed. It is not a matter of them "showing" themselves to the Bride, it is a matter of the Bride being changed with them. Then together they would like Jesus minister to the saints that were not of that number and had to go into the Trib.
You are pooling the two Raptures into one, at the last trump. But, how about the first trump? I don't think we will be changed and then minister to those that get left behind at the first trump. It is our DISAPPEARANCE that ministers to them. Psa. 40:1-3 says, "I waited patiently (Rev. 3:10) for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit (Earth), out of the miry clay (bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established my goings. And he hath put a new song (sung after the Rapture, Rev. 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, AND FEAR, AND SHALL TRUST IN THE LORD." This seems like we are out of our terrestrial bodies and in our spiritual bodies. What do you think?
> > Jesus was seen of up to 500 people during that 40 days. He is the LORD. We are saints. What happened to the saints on Resurrection Day would be more likely to apply to us. They "APPEARED UNTO MANY" (Mt. 27:53) and were taken to Heaven that same day. That seems to be the pattern for saints. Psa. 40:3 agrees. "MANY SHALL SEE IT."
> > If You and some others appeared to me changed, I would know you were in the number, I was not Etc. Get the picture? Surely there would be reports amongst us of such things.
Since Scripture does not say that the saints are to be resurrected and appear to others 40 days, You could be caught waiting for something that won't happen during the 40 days before the Rapture.
> > I am associated with the Branham Message. It is generally believed amongst us that the time of the Rapture is a time of world turmoil and catastrophy. We belive the Shout of Thess. has already gone forth.
It is too bad that you missed both the 40-day ministry of the saints and the "Shout of Thess", which is the first Rapture. Do you have any idea as to when your Rapture will take place?
> > As far as the mystery of the "change" being declared in the parables of say the 10 virgins why would it have to be?
If the 40-day ministry of the saints and the "Shout of Thess" are already behind you, it is too late to concern yourself with the parable of the 10 virgins. The wise virgins would already be gone. They were not expecting a 40-day period of ministry of the dead in Christ to take place before the Rapture.
> > We know the foolish vigins cryed out, "open to us" open what? Why could it not be the "change" of the body that they know they missed?
The "open door" of Heaven that is set before the wise Philadelphian virgins in Rev. 3:8 and 4:1 has closed. The foolish virgins wised up too late.
Where does Scripture say that a door stands for "the 'change' of the body" that they know they missed?" The foolish virgins are left facing a closed door like the Laodiceans (Rev. 3:20), because they don't have enough extra oil in their vessels (bodies). They only have their lamps (i.e., salvation), and those are sputtering. They need extra oil of the Holy Spirit in their bodies. How do they buy it? Read I John 1:5-9 and II Peter 1:4-11. Peter says, "by these ye might be partakers of the DIVINE NATURE."
> > You consider yourself the "wise virgin" do you have the foolish knocking on your door saying "open to us"? When that body change happens, there is no doubt in believers minds what has happened and who "flys" and who "dies".
No foolish one is on the other side of my door yelling "open to us". I think they wake up too late and are left behind. Do you think that in Luke 12:46, the Lord just forgot to mention the 40-day warning during which they could all start looking for him? It says, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the unbelievers." If the foolish virgins saw the resurrected saints for 40 days prior to the Rapture, would any be left behind? Would any get surprised? Wouldn't all get ready, thus eliminating the group called the foolish virgins. Would half of the virgins still get left outside the door with that kind of proof of the time of the Rapture?
> > The Lord comes quickly to do what? To first Change the Worthy saints. That must be first before they meet him in the air.
Why would he come quickly and then hang around 40 days while we get ready? Did Enoch have a 40-day wait to be caught up? No. Did Elijah have a 40-day wait to be caught up? No. In Rev. 3:11, Jesus says, "Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." I'm holding fast. I am ready now, not counting on a 40-day period in which to get ready later. If you are wrong about that 40-day-get-ready period, you could get left behind. I wouldn't take that chance.
The Rapture is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37). The door was shut for Noah BEFORE it rained 40 days, not afterward. Rain is a symbol of the Spirit of God, which is the Spirit of Christ (Rom. 8:9). The rain came the same day the door was shut. Gen. 7:16,17 says, "the LORD shut him in. And the flood was forty days upon the earth." No one could enter the Ark during those 40 days--or for the rest of that year. Agape
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