Pro and Con 770

Posted 6-28-01

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Re: Jerusalem surrounded?
I read this in this evening's edition of, 06-28-2001, and thought you might be interested. Things seem to be falling into place. Agape.
U.S. peacekeepers to Mideast? Sharon agrees to shorter cease-fire, European involvement

Israel and Yasser Arafat's Palestinian Authority have both agreed to scale down combat activity in a three-week cooling-off period monitored by armed U.S. and European peacekeepers...

After the three-week truce, Israel and the Palestinians will commence diplomatic negotiations, in the presence of U.S. and EU representatives.

The U.S. government will stand as guarantor for Israelšs observance of the agreement, while EU leaders underwrite Palestinian compliance.

From 5doves site

Amazing Photo - William Zambrano (26 June) [an iceberg]

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Your correspondent in P and C 769 has repeated an error that although it may be "cute", is inaccurate. I believe that Marilyn Monroe died in the summer of 1962, before 1963, when Kennedy was killed. It has been cited that "one week before he died Lincoln was in Monroe, Maryland and one week before he died Kennedy was in Marilyn Monroe. "Cute", if vulgar, but definitely untrue.

Still hanging in there with the Lord, as you are also. Love

My reply

Thanks much. I removed that item on my file and will UL it again with the next P & C.

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Re: Nostradamus Quatrain (King of Terror)
Hot Story for Sun Spotters Club
Dear Editor:

I wish to pass on a couple notes about the famous "King of Terror" quatrain by Nostradamus:

In the year 1999 (and) seven months,
From the sky will come a great King of Terror,
He will resurrect the great King of Angolmois,
Before and afterward Mars rules happily.

I propose that based on the last line of the quatrain, and Mars' current activity, that the time period Nostradamus was referring to is now and not 1999. In 1999 there was no special activity with Mars; the last time it reached it's current brightness was at opposition 12 years ago. Nostradamus was not using the current Gregorian calendar.

In June, for over a week, Mars was the only bright object in the night sky. The moon did not rise, and neither were Jupiter or Venus visible; Mars ruled. Mars will be spectacularly bright into August, according the May 2001 Sky and Telescope. Not only is Mars bright now, but it will come back even more spectacularly in August 2003, being 1/5 brighter and 6 or 7 million miles closer. In fact, it will be at its closest approach in over 5 thousand years. This seems, by Mars' activity to be the window of time to which Nostradamus was referring.

Secondly, and more importantly, I want to pass on some research as to the identity of the King of Terror. In every book (at least 7 or 8) I have looked in regarding the interpretation of Nostradamus' quatrains, the King of Terror's identity is elusive; he is an asteroid, comet, nuclear bomb, volcano, perhaps the anti-Christ. These books are written by secular people who likely never crack open a Bible. However Nostradamus was a Catholic Jew and a doctor, no doubt well read in scripture. I looked up King of Terror in a book I have called The Names of Jesus (over 700 names of Jesus) by Elmer L. Town. King of Terrors is listed with the Biblical address, Job 18:14.

This passsage actually starts at Job 18:5 speaking about the destiny of the wicked. Job 18:5 says: Yea the light of the wicked shall be put out, and the spark of his fire shall not shine.

Here is Job 18:14 in the KJV and the NIV:
KJV: His confidence shall be rooted out of his tabernacle, and it shall bring him to the King of Terrors.
NIV: He is torn from the security of his tent and Marched off to the King of Terrors.

Therefore, it seems that Nostradamus in this quatrain was trying to prophesy the Advent of the King of KIngs, the Lord Jesus Christ. Why address him as King of Terror? Is he not coming to judge a world that has become like the wicked man in Job? Watch an episode or two of Jerry Springer, or the nightly news! Sincerely

My reply

I don't think Nostradamus's words were of God. I'd quicker believe that they were from the underworld. Didn't he look into a dark mirror in a darkened basement to get his so-called enlightenment?

In Job 18:13-15, the "FIRSTBORN OF DEATH" that "SHALL DEVOUR HIS (the wicked one's/the False Prophet's) STRENGTH" is Christ. In v. 14, the "KING OF TERRORS" is the asteroid impact on the Day of God's Wrath. The "king of terrors. It shall dwell in his (the Satan possessed False Prophet's) tabernacle, because it (the church he stole) IS NONE OF HIS: brimstone shall be scattered upon his habitation."

This ties in with Zech. 5:4. It says of "the curse that goeth forth (orbits) over the face of the whole earth", "I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts (Christ, Isa. 44:6), and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet, who steals the church), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Beast, the Tribulation Pope): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

Job. 18:4 asks, "SHALL THE ROCK (asteroid) BE REMOVED OUT OF HIS PLACE?" Verse 5 answers, "YEA, THE LIGHT OF THE WICKED SHALL BE PUT OUT." Verses 7 and 8 say, "HIS own counsel shall cast HIM down. For HE is cast into a net by HIS own feet, and HE walketh upon a snare (trap)."

> > the Lord Jesus Christ. Why address him as King of Terror? Is he not coming to judge a world that has become like the wicked man in Job?

The Hebrew word for terrors is ballahah, alarm, destruction, terror, trouble. That could not represent Christ, the Saviour of the world. The terror of terrors will impact Earth 7 Jewish months prior to the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13). When Christ returns, he will return in glory, not in the midst of the worst thing to happen since man was put on this Earth. That is the time of the worldwide earthquake, when every wall will fall (Eze. 38:20). The devastation will be so severe that Christ will need to refresh the atmospheric heavens and the Earth to make Earth a fitting habitat for man during the Millennium. Agape

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Re: Christ's Bride
I thank God for you every day. What a blessing your studies have been. We are disappointed the rapture has not happened yet, but we continue to look upward, and know that it is near.

There is a thought that keeps running around in my mind I want to share with you and see what you think. If the Bride of Christ is the Gentile church, why would the first rapture happen on or near a Jewish holiday or Holy Day? I need an answer to this so I can set it aside if it is not correct. Thank you. Agape -

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

> > If the Bride of Christ is the Gentile church, why would the first rapture happen on or near a Jewish holiday

All of us are Noah's descendants. We are all of one blood, Jews and Gentiles. Acts 17:26 says that he "hath made of ONE BLOOD ALL NATIONS of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation." Abraham's descendants, the Hebrews, are now called Jews. All other people are called Gentiles, but under the skin we are pretty much alike and have Noah as our progenitor.

The Lord chose one nation to give the scriptures to, one nation to act out most of the types to help us understand prophecy, one nation to keep the predictive feasts that declare in advance things to come, one nation that would produce the Saviour, one nation that would spread the gospel to the world. Jesus was Jewish, and we are joined to him. All the apostles were Jewish. We are grafted into their tree, becoming one body, not replacing them, but being joined to them. Rom. 12:5 says, "So we, being many, are ONE BODY IN CHRIST, and EVERY ONE MEMBERS ONE OF ANOTHER." Rom. 11:16-18 says, "if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee."

The feasts are kept by the Jews so that their children as well as ours can learn about them and what they predict for the future. Both Jews and Gentiles will be the Bride of Christ, just as they both are the Body of Christ.

The Rapture does not have to happen on a feast, but it might. That possibility can't be ruled out. The feasts are predictive. Since the Pre-Wrath Rapture seems to be on the Feast of Trumpets, why wouldn't the Pre-Trib Rapture also be on a feast? When the Lord was making the blueprint of time and setting the feasts on the days of important events, I can't see why he would leave out his taking his Bride to Heaven. Isn't that basically what this is all about? We need to keep an open mind and search for clues. In Mark 13:23, Jesus said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things."

II Tim. 2:15 says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." If we study to be approved of God, we will not only know the prophecies, but we will build up a background of knowledge that will give us the best chance to recognize signs. Agape

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Re: feast of Pentecost
I read an item that the feast of Penticost is 50 days after Pentecost. That then was the offering of the two loaves. That should be on July,18.Any thoughts? Love in Jesus..., hope you are all well!

My reply

Yes. I don't believe it. :-) Lev. 23 is clear that it is the day after a 7-week countdown from the Feast of Firstfruits, 50 days, not 100 days. Lev. 23:15-17 says, "ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete. Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number FIFTY DAYS; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals; they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD."

We are fine. Although he has trouble getting up from a recliner or out of the car, Ed hasn't had any more TIAs. I have trouble believing that I am as pain free as I am. I had muscle spasms before Aspartame (Nutrasweet) came out, but I think it made my spasms much worse. Between my two prescriptions and eliminating Nutrasweet (diet Cokes), I am better than I have been for years piled upon years. Agape

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Re: Type & Shadow of Abigail
Another thought keeps coming to me regarding the story of Abigail in 1Samuel 25. I was led to read it the other day, and although I have never heard of it as a type and shadow for the rapture, it seemed the Holy Spirit was trying to show me it was connected in some way.

Questions that come to me are: was Abigail a type and shadow of the church coming to David, (a type of Christ)? She was married to Nabal (the world) but left him and repented to David, asking for mercy. David received her, heeded her and let her return in peace. Nabal lived another 10 days, until God struck him. Then David sent a messenger to Abigail to propose, and she "followed the messengers attended by 5 maidens" (5 wise virgins?)

Do you think this applies somehow to this age. The 10 days, plus the amount of time for David to hear of Nabal's death, then send the servants. We don't know the total of the time involved, and then the fact that the number of 5 maidens was mentioned seems important.

Again, I thank God for you Marilyn, and your faithfulness. Agape

My reply

> > Do you think this applies somehow to this age.

Yes. I agree that I Sam. 25 is very interesting. It could be that Abigail (meaning the father's joy) represents the wise virgins ("five damsels...went after her, v. 42) and that Ahinoam (beauty of the brother, brother of grace) represents the foolish virgins, i.e., Tribulation saints. "David (well beloved, i.e., Christ) ALSO took Ahinoam of Jezreel (the Lord arises, brightness of the Lord): and they were also BOTH OF THEM HIS WIVES" (v. 43). But Saul (asked for, death) had given Michal (who is perfect?) to Phalti (deliverance, flight), so some of the Pre-Wrath Rapture seem not to be included in the Marriage of the Lamb.

In I Sam 25:29, Abigail gave a prophecy. After saying, "pray thee, forgive the trespass of thine handmaid," she said, "the soul of my lord (David, i.e., Christ) shall be bound in the bundle of life with the LORD thy God ('God was in Christ,' II Cor. 5:19); and the souls of thine enemies, them shall he sling out, as out of the middle of a sling" (the asteroid will be slung as David slung the rock that killed Goliath). David's sling was a strip of leather folded around the rock. He slung it around his head (as the asteroid orbits) and let go of one end. The rock then killed Goliath, whose name also tells the story. It means revolution, passage and heap. The rock revolved, passed to him, and he became a heap--dead.

Abigail was accepted by David, but sent back to Nabal (foolish, dolt) for awhile. In v. 35, David told Abigail, "GO UP in peace to thine house; see I have hearkened to thy voice, and have accepted (nasa, lift up, accept, arise, MARRIAGE) thy person." Verse 39 says, "David sent and communed (daber, arranged, REHEARSED) with Abigail, to take her to him to wife." Agape

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From: David Jones
I rejoice in your faith in the Lord, and not in dates or being let down by our limited understanding or by any persecution against efforts to study and be faithful with the measure of understanding He has given. I say this though I differ in prophectic views as conveyed previously.

We too (as you may recall lookied for events on Pentecost), and are not exactly sure what the Lord is doing. Though I am personally convinced of the possibly that the time of the 2300 is here with the trodding of the host (ceasefire/ restraint), and the tide turning against Ariel/Israel. But still looking for a more marked sign or event. I have confident of the rapture of the firstfruits on a Nisan 10 (perhaps in 2004), but the events of the present are still in view....

The Lord is good. He is in control and His work wil be finished. In each of us, and to conclude the end of the age and bring about the Millenium of His ruling with those whom He has raised up..

Lord bless you,
David Jones, The Rapture Website,

My reply

Thanks for your kindness. Though we may differ in interpretation in some ways, we are trying our best to understand Scripture correctly and interact with other believers in God's agape love. If you give me your reasons for believing as you do, and I give you my reasons for believing the way I do, maybe we both will come to a better understanding, thereby helping each other. In endeavoring to teach, the teacher usually ends up learning too.

At, you said:
> > After 40 years in the wilderness the time came to enter into the promised land of Caanan (a type of God's Kingdom). As the Priests stepped down into the swollen Jordan (meaning "descender," symbolizing death) the river dried up and the Israelites crossed over on dry ground. They crossed over without being touched by the water (death). This symbolizes being "raptured" into Heaven. And upon what day did this happen? "And the people came up out of Jordan on the tenth day of the first month, and encamped in Gilgal, in the east border of Jericho." (Josh. 4:19).
> > The first month is the Jewish month of Nisan which falls during our months of March and April. In whatever year the Rapture occurs the "Bride of Christ" or the "Firstfruits" will be taken on the 10th of Nisan. The "Harvest Rapture" takes place 1260 days or 3 1/2 years later on the Day of Trumpets, a fulfillment of 1 Thess. 4:16-17....

If the 40 years of trial and probation for the Israelites in the wilderness represents the 40 years between the Sign of the End of the Age (the Six-Day War of 1967) and the beginning of the millennial kingdom, the earthly kingdom's beginning will be in 2007 (1967 + 40 = 2007). It does begin on the Feast of Trumpets. Mal. 2:3 says, "your solemn feasts; and one shall take you away with it.

You place the "Firstfruits" Rapture on the 10th of Nisan and the "Harvest Rapture" 1260 days later "on the Day of Trumpets. We agree that the "Harvest Rapture" is on the Feast of Trumpets. Hos. 9:5-7 says, "What will ye do in the solemn day, and in the day of the FEAST of the LORD? For, lo, they are gone because of DESTRUCTION...The days of visitation are come, the days of recompence are come; Israel shall know it: the PROPHET (False Prophet) is a fool (possessed by Satan), the SPIRITUAL MAN (the Beast/Tribulation Pope) is mad, for the multitude of thine iniquity, and the great hatred." Hos. 5:7 says, "They (Israelites) have dealt treacherously against the LORD: for they have begotten strange (zuwr, adulterous) children: now shall a MONTH (chodesh, new moon, i.e., Tishri 1) devour them." Trumpets is the only feast that comes on the new moon of the month. Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a DESTRUCTION from the Almighty shall it come." Joel 2:1-3 describes that day. It mentions "Blow ye the trumpet ," "the day of the LORD cometh," and the "thick darkness."

The Feast of Trumpets in 2007 is Sept. 13. The Pre-Wrath Rapture is that day (Rev. 7:9,14). Between the breaking of the 6th (Rev. 6:12) and 7th seals (Rev. 8), Rev. 6:17 says, "the great day of his wrath is come." Counting backward the 1260 days from Sept. 13, 2007, NOT by Jewish inclusive reckoning, brings us to Nisan 10, 5764 (Apr. 1, 2004) for your Pre-Trib-Rapture date.

To test this theory out, let's assume that the Tribulation's beginning and the Pre-Trib Rapture do start on Nisan 10, 5764 (Apr. 1, 2004). That would mean that Moses and Elijah, the two witnesses, would have to prophesy during that same 1260 days. Rev. 11:3 says, "I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth." After the 1260 days are over, the False Prophet kills them. That would be Sept. 13, 2007 (Tishri 1), the Day of God's Wrath. The 2 witnesses lay on the streets of Jerusalem 3,5 days, then they are resurrected and ascend up to Heaven. Rev. 11:12,13 says, "they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them. And the same hour (which would be on TISHRI 4) was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand."

On the Day of God's Wrath, "ALL THE MEN THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, SHALL SHAKE...AND EVERY WALL SHALL FALL TO THE GROUND" (Eze. 38:20). Rev. 16:18 says, "there was a great EARTHQUAKE, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE MEN WERE UPON THE EARTH, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell." How can every wall falling and Jerusalem being divided into 3 parts on Tishri 1 be reconciled with a tenth part of the city falling afterward on Tishri 4? If all walls are already down, how can a tenth part of the city fall again 3.5 days later?

On the same day that the False Prophet kills Moses and Elijah, he sits in the temple showing himself that he is God (II Thess. 2:4) and places an idol there. This is the abomination of desolation, and those in Judea are to flee to the wilderness to be fed there 1260 days, Rev. 12:6). This second group of 1260 days would then extend from Tishri 1, 5758 (Sept. 13, 2007) onward. Why would they be in the wilderness 1260 days after the Day of God's Wrath? I hope you can explain this to me, for right now, I can't see how it would be possible.

> > The Seven Year Tribulation: Truth or Fiction?

> > Many believe in a seven year Tribulation. Yet Jesus spoke of this time being shortened (Matt. 24:22). Both the books of Daniel and Revelation reference a 3 1/2 year Tribulation: 1260 days, 42 months, a time, and times, and half a time. (Dan. 12:7, Rev. 11:2-3; 12:6,14; 13:5). Each of these references speak of the same period, the 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation.

> > The concept of a 7 year tribulation stems from the erroneous theory that the 70th week of Daniel 9 is separated by nearly 2000 years from the 69th week. This has come to be known as the "great gap theory."

Only the Great Tribulation, the last half of the 5th cycle of discipline is shortened. Lev. 26:27,28 says, "if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you SEVEN TIMES for your sins." A "time" can be a year (Rev. 12:6,14). These 7 times are the same as the 70th week of years in Dan. 9:27. They represent a 7-year Tribulation.

The last half of the 7-year Tribulation is the Great Tribulation. Mt. 24:21,22 says, "For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake THOSE DAYS SHALL BE SHORTENED.

There is a 7-year Tribulation, and the last half, the Great Tribulation is "SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE THE BEGINNING OF THE WORLD TO THIS TIME." Therefore it was not fulfilled in "the first Century," as you said below.

> > Daniel's 70th Week: Fulfilled Two Thousand Years Ago

> > The 70th week completed in the first Century. Jesus was "cut off" in the middle of the 70th week as He gave His life on the cross (Dan 9:26). He confirmed the convenant with many for one week. His sacrifice on the cross rendered the end of the sacrifices in the midst of the week. Then nearly 3 1/2 years after His death Stephen was martyred marking the beginning of the persecution and dispersion of the church. The Jews continued to reject Jesus even though He had proven Himself the Messiah. Failing to acknowledge Him, they continued in the abomination of their sacrifices (Dan 9:27). The result of this "overspreading of abominations" was the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. and the desolation of the Jewish state (Dan 9:26).

Dan. 9:24 says, "Seventy weeks (shabuwa, literally sevened, a week of years, i.e., 70 x 7 = 490 years) are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, TO FINISH THE TRANSGRESSION (NOT FINISHED IN 1ST CENTURY OR YET TODAY), and TO MAKE AN END OF SINS (SIN NOT ENDED IN THE 1ST CENTURY OR YET TODAY), and to make reconciliation for iniquity (that was done in 30 AD), and TO BRING IN EVERLASTING RIGHTEOUSNESS (NOT BROUGHT IN IN 1ST CENTURY OR YET TODAY), and to seal up the vision and prophecy (Scriptures completed in 1st century, but ALL PROPHECIES NOT YET FULFILLED), and TO ANOINT THE MOST HOLY (CHRIST NOT YET ANOINTED KING.

Therefore, the 70 weeks did not end in the 1st century.

Continuing, v. 25-27 says, "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment (BC 454) to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks (483 years): the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks (483 - BC 454 + 1 because no zero year = 30 AD) shall Messiah be cut off (karath, killed), but not for himself (for us): and the people (Romans) of the prince that shall come (the False Prophet) shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (burned by Romans in 70 AD); and the end thereof shall be with a flood (NO FLOOD IN 70 AD), and unto the end of the war (Armageddon) desolations are determined. And he (the False Prophet) shall confirm (gabar, strengthen) the covenant with many (probably the UN) for one week (7 years): and in the midst of the week (after 3.5 years) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (when he kills Moses and Elijah and sits in the temple shewing himself that he is God, II Thess. 2:4), and for the overspreading of abominations (shiqquts, idols) he (the False Prophet) shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" (lit., desolator).

The prince that shall come is a Roman. His people burned the temple in 70 AD and they will desecrate it in the Great Tribulation. He sits there showing himself that he is God and puts an idol at the temple. Because the temple is desecrated, sacrificing stops. He will be on the receiving end of the Day of God's Wrath and Armageddon. He will be cast into the Lake of Fire (Rev. 19:20 says, "the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his IMAGE. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone." These things could NOT refer to Christ. Not only would he not desecrate the temple, his people would not do it, either.

Dan. 8:13,14 says, "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (1st 1260 days of the Tribulation), and the transgression of desolation (Mid-Trib on), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed" (on Nisan 1, at the Second Advent, Eze. 45:18). Agape

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