Pro and Con 776

Posted 7-11-01

It pays to be alert. Beware of this virus: START.EXE 57.4 KB, "Subject: for the sins."

I got it in my incoming e-mail. It was from a friend, but because it was an attachment that said .exe, I deleted it and condensed my folders 2 times to erase all traces of it. I sent e-mail about it to the sender. The message came back "yes," it is a virus that came in Saturday. People that make these viruses certainly do not obey do unto others as you would have them do unto you. I cannot understand their thinking at all.

Thank you Lord for helping me to recognize it and please help them eradicate it from their computer. In Jesus' name, Amen. These very nice people certainly did not deserve this aggravation. Their Norton anti-virus program found it and quarantined it, but it sent out e-mails to people from an old address file anyway.
---
The following is a very interesting article about giants in the USA. I had to read every word. It says, "Scientists in Europe, in case-by-case studies, declared their giants to have been victims of pituitary disorder." I call that an assumption, for I wonder how bones can tell us that. Clearly, in early days, there were giants in the USA, more than the occasional one found in Europe. Gen. 6:4 seems to be more far-reaching than just the Middle East. It says, "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God (bene ha Elohim, angels, each one individually created by God, Job 1:6,7; 2:1,2) came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown." They were the reason for Noah's Flood. Emphasis below is mine.
---
Holocaust of Giants: The Great Smithsonian Cover-up
http://greatserpentmound.org/articles/giants3.html
©2001 Ross Hamilton

...James Wafford, of the western Cherokee, who was born in Georgia in 1806, says that his grandmother, who must have been born about the middle of the last century, told him that she had heard from the old people that long before her time a party of giants had once come to visit the Cherokee. They were nearly twice as tall as common men, and had their eyes set slanting in their heads, so that the Cherokee called them Tsunil´ kalu´, "the Slant-eyed people," because they looked like the giant hunter Tsul´ kalu´. They said that these giants lived far away in the direction in which the sun goes down....

Excavations...have revealed the crumbling bones of a mighty race. Samuel Miller...one skeleton which he assisted in unearthing was a trifle more than eight feet in length, the skull being correspondingly large, while many other skeletons measured at least seven feet...

Among the human bones found in the mounds were some belonging to men of gigantic structure. Some of the skulls were of sufficient capacity to admit the head of an ordinary man, and jaw bones that might have been fitted on over the face with equal facility; the other bones were proportionately large....

...in the remains of a bark coffin, a skeleton measuring 7˝ feet in length and 19 inches across the shoulders...

...discovered the skeleton of a giant measuring seven feet two inches. His hair was coarse and jet black, and hung to the waist, the brow being ornamented with a copper crown....

Chester Bishop...came across a skeleton, the bones of which were removed carefully by Dr. Richard Kirkpatrick, and from his measurement the height of the man when living would have been 8 feet and 5 inches....

Incoming email

Excellent article. What a change in the last 25 years! Just as Samson finally gave away the secret of his strength to Delilah, Israel put guns into the hands of the PA! Looks awfully close to the end now!
http://www.virtualjerusalem.com/news/opinion/?disp_feature=qWaaiu.var

From 5doves site

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2001/lyn77.htm
Lyn Mize (7 July)
...The reason these three verses (Song of Solomon 6:10-13) in the Song of Solomon are an enigma is they are describing the Firstfruits Rapture of the Bride of Christ, and the reaction of those who see the Bride taken away. The main body of the Church did not see anything special about the Bride, but the Bridegroom is able to look upon the heart, and He saw something very special about the Bride. In verse 11 it was her soul or her life that made her worthy to sit up in the chariot of the King. In verse 12 the Hebrew word for armies has a figurative meaning of sacred court. When the remainder of the Church was on the earth calling for her return so they could look at her in order to see what was so special about her, she was among the sacred court in the New Jerusalem with her Beloved.

The word Shulamite is simply the feminine form of the name Solomon. Thus, it means Solomoness or Mrs. Solomon. Since Solomon is a picture or type of Christ the Bridegroom in the Song of Solomon, Shulamite is a type or picture of the Bride. She is the one who is most like Christ in behavior and character. She does not represent all Christians or the whole Church since all Christians are not conformed to the image of Christ in this life....

(Song 6:13 KJV) Return, return, O Shulamite; return, return, that we may look upon thee. What will ye see in the Shulamite? As it were the company of two armies.

When the bride is taken and set upon the lead chariot of the King, the Main Body of the Church will beckon four times for her to return, so they can see what was so special about her....

The Main Body of the Church will have ignored the bride up until she is taken out in the Firstfruits Rapture. Suddenly, the Main Body of the Church will be intensely interested in what makes the bride so special that she will be placed in the sacred court of the King.

There are two divisions or two armies of the sacred court. These two armies or divisions are portrayed in the book of Revelation as the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders. I believe strongly that the four living creatures make up the bride of Christ, and the twenty-four elders make up her court. Both groups will be taken in the Firstfruits Rapture.

My reply

The meaning of Shulamite found in an old Bible "Table of the Proper Names" is peaceable, perfect. Strong's has peaceful (with the article always prefixed, making it a pet name); the Shulammith, an epithet of Solomon's queen:--Shulamite.

I too think she represents the Bride of Christ. Song 6:13 asks, "What will ye see in the Shulamite? As it were the company of two armies." These are those that are part of the Bride of Christ from the 2 Raptures. We also see this in Song 2:17: "Until the day break, and the shadows flee away, turn, my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the mountains of Bether" (separation). The two groups of the Bride of Christ are also symbolized in Song 7:3,7: "Thy two breasts are like two young roes that are twins...This thy stature is like to a palm tree (upright), and thy breasts to clusters of grapes."

The clusters of grapes show us that both Raptures are when grapes are ripe. This could be a clue that both Raptures will be on the Feast of Trumpets, the time of the vintage in Israel.

> > There are two divisions or two armies of the sacred court. These two armies or divisions are portrayed in the book of Revelation as the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders. I believe strongly that the four living creatures make up the bride of Christ, and the twenty-four elders make up her court. Both groups will be taken in the Firstfruits Rapture.

I agree that the Bride of Christ and the 24 elders will be caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture. However, I wonder if the four lively things of Rev. 5 really represent the bride of Christ.

Four living creatures, cherubim, are seen in Eze. 1 and 10, Four seraphim are seen in Isa. 6:1-5 and Rev. 5. The four banners with these four faces marked the compass points when Israel camped around the Tabernacle. These four faces are mentioned for the cherubim in Eze. 1:10 and 10:14 and for the seraphim in Rev. 4:7. Therefore, the cherubim and seraphim are alike in some way.

In Eze. 1 and 10, I think the 4 flying animated things (Cherubim) represent the 4 terrestrial planets, Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars. They have concentric orbits as a wheel within a wheel (1:16). They orbit around the Sun, "a fire infolding itself, and a brightness (nogah, sunlight) was about it" (Eze. 1:4). And "one wheel (orbit) upon the Earth" (Eze. 1:15).

Eze. 1:22f tells us that the sapphire throne is over the heads of the terrestrial planets (farther out in space). Eze. 10:1 says, "behold, in the firmament that was above the head of the cherubims there appeared over them as it were a sapphire stone, as the appearance of the likeness of a throne." Sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear. Ex. 24:10 says, "there was under his (God's) feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were (symbolic language) the body of heaven (heavenly body) in his clearness (tohar, glory)."

Isa. 6:1-3 adds to the symbolic picture. In the year that king Uzziah (meaning the might of YHVH, i.e., a type of Jesus Christ) died (the Crucifixion in 30 AD) I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne (kicceh, throne, as covered, probably as in the Holy of Holies in the temple, i.e., the sapphire throne, Saturn), high and lifted up, and his train (or hem of his robe) filled the temple. Above it (farther out in space than Saturn) stood the seraphims" (Uranus, Neptune, Pluto). Since there are 4 seraphim in Rev. 4:6,7, we can figure out that Jupiter is a seraphim too. It was not included here, because only the planets farther out in space than Saturn are in view.

Isa. 6:3 says, "one (seraphim) cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts (Christ): the whole earth is full of his glory." Psa 148:3 agrees. It says, "Praise ye him, sun and moon: praise him, all ye stars of light."

In Rev 4:6-8, we find another picture of the seraphim. It says, "before the throne (the sapphire throne, i.e. Saturn) there was a sea of glass (hualinos, glassy, transparent things) like unto crystal (krustallos, ice crystals): and in the midst of the throne (on Saturn), and round about (kukloi, in a ring or circle) the throne, were four beasts (Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto) full of eyes (full orbs, i.e., spheres) before and behind."

Rev. 4:6 (WNT) says, "And each of the four living creatures had six wings, and in every direction, and within, are full of eyes (full orbs)."

Continuing in the KJV, "And the first beast was like a lion, and the second beast like a calf, and the third beast had a face as a man, and the fourth beast was like a flying eagle (i.e., being spheres, they face and orbit in all four directions). And the four beasts had each of them six wings (i.e., they are seraphim, outer planets, rather than the cherubim, inner planets) about him; and they were full of eyes (full orbs, i.e., spheres) within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come."

In these visions of the cherubim and seraphim, I think our solar system is represented. We have the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto.

The naked-eye spheres were represented by the candlestick in the temple. Josephus said that it "spread itself into as many branches as there are planets, including the sun among them" (Ant. III. VII. 7). These are the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Earth is in the center, Saturn to the east. The western light was always to be kept burning because it represented the Sun.

Can the four beasts in Rev. 4 and 5 ALSO represent the Bride of Christ, as Lyn thinks? I think the four beasts are the four outer planets and that the angels inhabit them. Let's see which the scriptures uphold.

Many prophecies do have double fulfillments. One symbol can also stand for two things. For instance, In Rev. 17:9,10 says, "here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains (i.e., kingdoms), on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is (the Beast), and the other (the False Prophet) is not yet come." The 7 heads represent both the kingdom and its king. Likewise, the 4 planets may represent both the kingdoms and their inhabitants.

Rev. 5:6 says, "I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne (Saturn, the sapphire stone) and of the four beasts (Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto), and in the midst of the elders (who were just caught up to Saturn in Rev. 4:1), stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth."

Rev. 5:8-10 says, "when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they (the saints) sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, over) the earth."

Cherubim are depicted as having 2 wings and facing the Ark of the Covenant in the Tabernacle and Temple. Therefore, the number of wings is not critical. Wings symbolize a flying thing.

The cube-shaped Holy of Holies represents Heaven. This cube is as long as it is wide and high, the dimensions of a sphere that will just fit into the cube. These 2 cherubim seem to represent Jupiter and Uranus. They flank Heaven, Saturn, which is Paradise, the third heaven (II Cor. 12:2), (1) Mars, (2) Jupiter, (3) Saturn.

Isa. 37:16 says, "O LORD of hosts, God of Israel, that dwellest between the cherubims, thou art the God, even thou alone, of all the kingdoms of the earth: thou hast made heaven and earth." Heaven is between two "cherubims" (planets).

The dimensions of the Holy Place is 2 cubes the size of the Holy of Holies. I think the Holy Place depicts Mars and Jupiter. Earth is probably represented by the altar. Ex. 20:24 says, "An altar of earth thou shalt make unto me."

The curtain of the Tabernacle had cherubim embroidered on it. There were 10 widths of fabric joined 5 widths and 5 widths. Clasps joined the two 5-width pieces together. Isa. 40:22 says, "It is he that sitteth upon the circle (orbit) of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out THE HEAVENS AS A CURTAIN, and spreadeth them out AS A TENT to dwell in." The 10 widths of the curtain represented the original 10 planets, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Rahab (now our Asteroid Belt), Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. Therefore, it seems that all the planets can be called cherubim, or the outer planets can be called seraphim (which means burners).

Rev. 5:6 (KJV) says, "I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne (on Saturn) and of the four beasts (Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto), and in the midst of the elders (on Saturn), stood a Lamb (Jesus Christ) as it had been slain, having seven (number of completion) horns (he's omnipotent) and seven eyes (he's omniscient), which are the seven Spirits of God (he's omnipresent) sent forth into all the earth."

Rev. 5:8-10 (KJV) says, "when he had taken the book, the four beasts (i.e., the angelic inhabitants on the 4 planets) and four and twenty elders fell down (ISV, 'bowed down') before the Lamb, having every one of them harps (NAB, 'Each of the elders held a harp'), and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Rev. 5:9-13 says, "they (the saints) sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us (the saints) to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, over) the earth. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne (on Saturn) and the beasts (angels on the 4 planets) and the elders (on Saturn): and the number of them (the angels) was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands; Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever."

I think the seraphim are planets, and it seems that their inhabitants are angels, rather than saints from Earth.

From 5doves site

Re: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2001/caps710.htm CAPS (10 July)
"SOLOMON'S TEMPLE AND THE CHURCH--PART 2"
> > In I Kings 6:37,38 "IN the 4th year was the foundation of the house of the LORD laid , in the month of Zif. And in the 11th year was the house "finished" throughout all the 'parts' thereof, and according to the 'fashion' of it. So was he (Solomon) 7 years in building it.
> > I Kings 7:1 "But Solomon was building his own house thirteen years, and he finished all his house.
> > Here is what I see as happening. In the I Kings 6 the Temple was "finished" as relating to its main frame...i.e. its 'parts' and "fashion" as seen in verses 37 & 38 above. After that Solomon worked on his own house and had Hiram work on FINISHING THE DECORATION AND INSIDES OF THE TEMPLE as shown in the following chapter of I Kings 7. Evidently this was done by Hiram as Solomon was working on his own house.

I take Scripture as meaning that the temple was not begun in the first year of Solomon's reign. It was started in his 4th year and totally finished in his 11th year.

1Ki 6:37,38 says, "In the fourth year was the foundation of the house of the LORD laid, in the month Zif (Iyar 2, 2 Chron. 3:2): And in the eleventh year, in the month Bul (Cheshvan), which is the eighth month, was the house FINISHED throughout ALL the parts thereof, and according to ALL the fashion of it. So was he seven years in building it."

Since the temple was not begun in Solomon's 1st year, the Church, temple of the Holy Spirit, did not need to be started in the first year of the 2000-year Age of the Church in BC 3. The foundation was laid in 30 AD.

> > This typology is unmistakeable. We have NOT YET completed 6000 years ! But we are CLOSE....REAL CLOSE.

I think we completed 6000 years in 5758 (1997/1998). I Kings 6:1 says, "it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the month Zif, which is the second month, that he began to build the house of the LORD." The 480th year in the Modern Parallels is 5758. (See: http://home.pe.net/~mjagee/parallels.)

According to Jewish inclusive reckoning, the 4th year after that would be 2001: (1) 1998, (2) 1999, (3) 2000, (4) 2001. These four years may be the same four of the parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9. In the Modern Parallels, the 483rd year is 5761 (2000/2001). The Civil Year 5761 will be over Sept. 18, 2001, the Feast of Trumpets.

< < I just want the TRUTH! HOw about you?

I'm sure you know that is what I want too. Agape

Incoming email

Subject: question about Saturn
You say the flaming sword was placed between earth and saturn(Heaven) to keep Adam and Eve out. But they couldn't have gotten there anyway, being on earth and all. And if the garden of eden was on earth, then heaven couldn't be Saturn. You see what I'm getting at here? God Bless

My reply

There are earthly things and heavenly counterparts. We have to distinguish between them. The Sword of the Lord was to guard against mankind going back to the earthly paradise (the Garden of Eden) in the Tigris-Euphrates area near Babylon. Mankind is going back, Babylon is being rebuilt now, and the Sword of the Lord will destroy it.

The flaming sword was also to keep evil out of the heavenly Paradise, where the Tree of Life (Christ) was taken.

Gen. 3:23,24 (KJV) says, "Therefore the LORD God sent him (Adam) forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground from whence he was taken. So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of (to) the tree of life." Verse 24 (Darby) says, "he drove out Man; and he set the Cherubim, and the flame of the flashing sword, toward the east of the garden of Eden, to guard the way to the tree of life."

I think the Cherubims are planets that rise in the east and the flaming sword is the asteroid that will impact Earth (Rev. 8:8,10). It rotates as it orbits, so it turns every way.

Speaking to Satan, Eze. 28:12-17 says, "Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty. Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering (surroundings), the sardius (Mercury), topaz (Venus), and the diamond (Earth), the beryl (Mars), the onyx (Rahab/Asteroid Belt), and the jasper (Jupiter), the sapphire (Saturn), the emerald (Uranus), and the carbuncle (Neptune), and gold (Pluto): the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth (guards); and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God (Saturn); thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (on Rahab). Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God (from Saturn): and I will destroy thee, O covering (guarding) cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire (from Rahab). Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee."

> > if the garden of eden was on earth, then heaven couldn't be Saturn.

There is an earthly Eden and a heavenly Eden, an earthly Jerusalem and an heavenly Jerusalem, an earthly Zion and a heavenly Zion. The "garden of Eden" of Gen. 3:24 is on Earth. "Eden the garden of God" of Eze. 28:13 is the heavenly Paradise. Cor. 12:2-4 says, "I knew a man in Christ (Paul himself) above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven (Mars, Jupiter, Saturn). And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise (the heavenly one), and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter."

In Lu. 23:43, Jesus said, "Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise." This is the heavenly one. In Rev. 2:7, Jesus said, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life (Christ), which is in the midst of the paradise of God." This "tree of life" and "paradise of God" are in Heaven. In Adam's day, the tree of life and paradise were on Earth. Agape

   Pro and Con 777   Or Return   Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@pe.net


Send me e-mail now


8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110


© 1996-2001, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 7-11-01