Pro and Con 778

Posted 7-16-01

Israel will retaliate from now on: Sharon
ROME - Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon announced here late Thursday that Israel will retaliate "on the ground" from now on to armed Palestinian attacks, after violence flared up again in the West Bank.
Netanyahu: Knesset should rescind Oslo Accords, By Gil Hoffman
JERUSALEM (July 16) - Former prime minister Binyamin Netanyahu called upon the Knesset yesterday to formally cancel the Oslo accords, in response to the Palestinians' repeated violations....

Incoming email

MYSTIC KABALISTIC JEWISH PRIESTS ISSUE WARNING THAT THE APPEARANCE OF THE JEWISH MESSIAH IS IMMINENT! Subtitle: As so many other End Times prophecies are swirling to fulfillment, Kabalistic Jews are now proclaiming that the appearance of their Christ is extremely close. The Jewish people are being set up for their ultimate deception: accepting Antichrist as their Messiah! Prophecies are being fulfilled right in front of your eyes, in the Daily News! The New World Order is coming!

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Re: might explain the prophecied destruction of both Egypt and Damascus
Egypt Threatens Israel – Will Stand With Syria ( Senior aide to Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak, Osama el-Baz, announced over the weekend that if Israel makes the "major mistake" and attacks Syria, Syrian would not stand alone. Egypt announced it would come to Syria’s side against Israel.

El-Baz added that Israel better think twice before launching attacks against any Arab nations, especially Syria "that fulfills an important role in the peace process."

My reply

This made me think of the king of the north and the king of the south in Dan. 11:40. "And at the time of the end shall the king of the south (Egypt) push at him (the False Prophet): and the king of the north (Syria) shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships."

It isn't hard to see it coming. I wonder what the Jews think when they read this. Can't they see it coming too? Verse 44 says, "tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him." This seems to grow into Gog's army. Woe unto all the inhabitants of the world will be set off when Gog's army attacks Israel.

How I wish they would all learn a lesson from Nineveh. Jonah went in there telling them what was coming, and they repented. The coming woe was not to come for another hundred years, because they repented. Jonah 3:5 says, "So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them." The king put on sackcloth, and sat in ashes. Even beasts were covered with sackcloth. Israel should learn from Nineveh's experience what to do. They should repent and trust in the Lord. This will happen eventually to survivors, but I wish it could happen now. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Date-Interval Calculator.htm
Todd Miller, McMurry University

My reply

Thanks much. I played around with it and came up with the figures below. Had to do it twice, my computer stalled. I had to turn it off manually, so lost my reply. I did not use inclusive reckoning, which would make 12/19/2001 12/20/2001 for the beginning of the Tribulation.

Beginning of Tribulation 12/19/2001 to Second Advent 4/6/2008 = 2300 days of Dan. 8:13,14
Beginning of Tribulation 12/19/2001 to Mid-Trib 6-1-2005 = 1260 days of Rev. 11:3
Mid-Trib 6/1/2005 to Day of God's Wrath 9/13/2007 = 834 days
Day of God's Wrath 9/13/2007 to Second Advent 4/6/2008 = 206 days
1260 days of Rev. 12:6,14; Dan. 12:7 - 834 - 206 = 220, number of days the Great Tribulation is shortened
Mid Trib 6/1/2005 to Second Advent 4/6/2008 = 1040 days
Second Advent 4/6/2008 to 5/6/2008 = 30 extra days of Dan. 12:11
5/6/2008 to 6/20/2008 = 45 more days of Dan. 12:13, when Daniel will stand in his lot in Israel

Possible scenario using these figures:
Pre-Trib Rapture before 12/19/2001 (or 12/20/2001 if using inclusive reckoning)
Beginning of Tribulation - Wed., 12/19/2001 (Teveth 4, 5762)
Mid-Trib - Wed., 6/1/2005 (Iyar 23, 5765)
Day of God's Wrath - Thu., 9/13/2007 (Tishri 1, 5768)
Second Advent - Sun - 4/6/2008 (Nisan 1, 5768) Judgment of the Nations - Sun., 4/6/2008 (Nisan 1, 5768)
Thirty Days of mourning - 4/6/2008 (Nisan 1, 5768 to Tue., 5/6/2008 (Iyar 1, 5768)
Daniel will stand in his lot in Israel 45 days later - Fri., 6/20/2008 (Sivan 17, 5768)

Incoming e-mail

From CAPS. Re: caps710.htm
I think if you go back and read the entire chapters of I KIngs 6:37 through ch. 9:10 you will see that Solomon was 20 years in building the 2 houses as per 9:10. The entire chapter 8 shows Hiram working on the inside of the Temple AFTER Solomon was 7 years in building it (that is the structure.) Look at 7:40 re the HOUSE OF THE LORD. This show Hiram working on the inside and finishing his work AFTER the 7 years. To me that's clear.

Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good.

My reply

I read those sections. Let's see what Scripture says. 2Ch 4:11 "Huram (Hiram) made the pots, and the shovels, and the basons. And Huram FINISHED THE WORK THAT HE WAS TO MAKE FOR KING SOLOMON FOR THE HOUSE OF GOD"

Hirum FINISHED, even the pots, shovels, and basons. Next comes the list of what he had finished.

2Ch 4:12 "TO WIT the two pillars, and the pommels, and the chapiters which were on the top of the two pillars, and the two wreaths to cover the two pommels of the chapiters which were on the top of the pillars..."

It is similar in I Kings 6:37,38f.

1Ki 6:1 "it came to pass in the four hundred and eightieth year after the children of Israel were come out of the land of Egypt, in the fourth year of Solomon's reign over Israel, in the month Zif, which is the second month, that he began to build the house of the LORD."

1Ki 6:37 "In the fourth year was the foundation of the house of the LORD laid, in the month Zif (ziv, the month of flowers, = Iyar, May)."

1Ki 6:38 "in the eleventh year, in the month Bul, which is the eighth month, was the house FINISHED THROUGHOUT ALL THE PARTS THEREOF, and according to ALL THE FASHION OF IT. So was he SEVEN YEARS IN BUILDING IT."

1Ki 7:1 "But Solomon was building his own house THIRTEEN YEARS, and HE FINISHED ALL HIS HOUSE."

1Ki 7:40 "Hiram made the lavers, and the shovels, and the basons. So HIRAM MADE AN END OF DOING ALL THE WORK THAT HE MADE KING SOLOMON FOR THE HOUSE OF THE LORD."

Next comes the list of what he had done.

1Ki 7:41 "The two pillars, and the two bowls of the chapiters that were on the top of the two pillars; and the two networks, to cover the two bowls of the chapiters which were upon the top of the pillars."

2Ch 3:1 "Then Solomon began to build the house of the LORD at Jerusalem in mount Moriah, where the LORD appeared unto David his father, in the place that David had prepared in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite."

2Ch 3:2 "he began to build in the second day of the second month (Iyar 2), in the fourth year of his reign."

Here comes the list of things to be done.

2Ch 3:3 "Now these are the things wherein Solomon was instructed for the building of the house of God. The length by cubits after the first measure was threescore cubits, and the breadth twenty cubits...."

1Ki 9:10 "at the end of TWENTY YEARS, when Solomon had built the two houses, the house of the LORD ('SEVEN YEARS,' I Ki. 6:38), and the king's house ('THIRTEEN YEARS,' I Ki. 7:1)..."

I'll stick with what the Scriptures say. To do otherwise would be contradicting the Lord's word.

1Ki 6:38 "in the eleventh year, in the month Bul, which is the eighth month, was the house FINISHED THROUGHOUT ALL THE PARTS THEREOF, and according to ALL THE FASHION OF IT. So was he SEVEN YEARS IN BUILDING IT." Agape

His reply

From: CAPS. Re: caps710.htm Hi: You sound real dogmatic. Similar to how you have expressed yourself about the crucifixion being on Nisan 13 and not on the 14th "as the LORD'S WORD SAYS." Sorry, Marilyn, it just smacks of being a little too self-righteous to me. Clearly, Solomon summoned Hiram after the Temple had been completed. I KIngs 7:13 says specifically " AND (NOTE THIS WAS AFTER 6:38) Solomon sent and fetched Hiram"....the remaining text gives the DETAILS OF THE WORK THAT HIRAM DID! Just as a house would be built today and "finished" re all its parts and plumbing and "appurtenances thereof"...and then it would be decorated on the inside. Can you imagine the "decorations" and ornate things that Hiram had to do. Clearly this came AFTER THE TEMPLE WAS CONSTRUCTED, as the sequence of scripture clearly indicates. Sorry you can't see that. I really don't need you to "thump" your bible at me re claiming you will "stick with the word" , that you are RIGHT, etc. We all believe we are not "contradicting the LORD'S WORD"....

My reply

I just tell what I believe, and try to make it as easy to understand as possible. I don't try to cram anything down anyone's throat. We all have a right to our own opinions. I respect your opinions for I know that you study the Bible a lot, as I do. I have learned from you in the past and hope to learn from you in the time we have left before the Rapture. I will always change my opinion in a heartbeat if I can see that the Bible teaches otherwise. We are fallible. God is not. I filter everything through the sieve of Scripture. If it agrees, I keep it. If it does not agree, I stick with Scripture. That is the way I think. I don't mean to sound self-righteous by saying that. I probably should say that I stick with Scripture as I think it indicates. All my opinions do have to be filtered through the background of what I have already learned as well as what Scripture says. None of us can totally avoid what is already in our heads. However, with whatever ability I have, I try to be open minded and give the pertinent scriptures another reading to test out the opinions of others. I try to see it that way, but if I can't, I stick with what I think the Lord meant.

I know that Lev. 23:5 says, "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD's passover." I believe that the "even" is the first part of the Jewish day. The Bible is consistent, and that was established in Gen. 1:5. It says, "the evening and the morning were the first day." At the temple, the priests killed the sheep between the evenings (between 3 and 6 PM) on the 13th so that the meat could be roasted and ready to eat after the Passover began at 6 PM on the 14th. I believe that Jesus died as the priests began to kill the lambs for he is our Passover. That is my opinion after studying the pertinent scriptures and other writings as hard and deep as I could go. I am not alone in this opinion. Before me, Seyffarth, Thurman, Aldrich and Westcott picked a Thursday date. Africanus, Bengel, Gresswell and Rusk thought it was Thursday, April 6, 30 AD. I agree with them. The 40 years between 30 AD and 70 AD were foretold in Eze. 4:6.

> > Solomon summoned Hiram after the Temple had been completed. I KIngs 7:13 says specifically " AND (NOTE THIS WAS AFTER 6:38) Solomon sent and fetched Hiram"....the remaining text gives the DETAILS OF THE WORK THAT HIRAM DID

In a previous e-mail you said,
> > So in reality the constuction of the oustside and then the inside of the Temple by Hiram as well as the building of the King's house took 20 years

I Ki. 6:37,38 (Berkekey) says, "The foundation of the house of the LORD was laid in the fourth year, in the month of Ziv, and in the eleventh year, in the month of Bul the eighth month, the house was COMPLETED IN EVERY DETAIL according to plan. So he built it in seven years." Green's Interlinear reads this way under the Hebrew words: "in the month Bul, it (was) the month eighth was finished the house, TO ALL ITS PARTS, and to all its plans."

After re-reading everything again, I see where our difference is. Hiram came and made the BRASS things to put in the temple and outside the temple AFTER the temple itself was finished. The difference is not great, but Hiram didn't do any of the work in gold, with which the entire inside of the temple was covered. He didn't decorate the temple itself. The entire temple ediface was completed in 7 years, including all the gold work. Then Hiram made the "two pillars of BRASS" with their "chapiters of molten BRASS, to set upon the tops of the pillars" in "the porch of the temple," the "molten sea," the 12 oxen to set it on, 10 "bases of BRASS," 10 "lavers of BRASS," shovels, basons, etc., all in BRASS.

"So Solomon built the house, and FINISHED IT....So Solomon overlaid the house within with pure GOLD: and he made a partition by the chains of GOLD before the oracle; and he overlaid it with GOLD. And THE WHOLE HOUSE HE OVERLAID WITH GOLD, until he had finished all the house: also the whole altar that was by the oracle he overlaid with GOLD" (I Ki. 6:14-22).

"Solomon made all the vessels that pertained unto the house of the LORD: the altar of GOLD, and the table of GOLD, whereupon the shewbread was, And the candlesticks of pure GOLD, five on the right side, and five on the left, before the oracle, with the flowers, and the lamps, and the tongs of GOLD, And the bowls, and the snuffers, and the basons, and the spoons, and the censers of pure GOLD; and the hinges of GOLD...of the TEMPLE. So was ENDED ALL THE WORK THAT KING SOLOMON MADE FOR THE HOUSE OF THE LORD" (I Kings 7). In I Ki. 6:30, we find out that even "the floor of the house he overlaid with GOLD." In v. 32, the doors with their carvings were overlaid "with GOLD."

I'm glad you made me look up things about the temple again. It was great to read some of Josephus' writings again. I often find interesting things on the way to looking up something else. Josephus described the temple in Wars. V. V. 3,4,5. In speaking of "the holy house itself," he said, "Its first gate was seventy cubits high, and twenty-five cubits broad; but this gate had no doors; for IT REPRESENTED THE UNIVERSAL VISIBILITY OF HEAVEN, AND THAT IT CANNOT BE EXCLUDED FROM ANY PLACE....then, as the entire house was divided into two parts within, it was only the first part of it that was open to our view." The Holy of Holies was "separated from the outer part by a veil." The colors on the veil were "a kind of IMAGE OF THE UNIVERSE; for by the scarlet, there seemed to be enigmatically signified fire, by the fine flax the earth, by the blue the air, and by the purple the sea." This curtain "had also embroidered upon it ALL THAT WAS MYSTICAL IN THE HEAVENS, EXCEPTING THAT OF THE [TWELVE] SIGNS, REPRESENTING LIVING CREATURES." In the Holy Place were "three things that were very wonderful and famous among all mankind; the candlestick, the table [of shewbread,] and the altar of incense. Now THE SEVEN LAMPS SIGNIFIED THE SEVEN PLANETS; for so many were springing out of the candlestick. Now, THE TWELVE LOAVES THAT WERE UPON THE TABLE SIGNIFIED THE CIRCLE OF THE ZODIAC AND THE YEAR."

Those loaves were replaced with fresh ones for each Sabbath day. Thus the year was not only broken into 12 months (12 signs of the Zodiac), but into weeks.

I think the cube of the Holy of Holies represented the "third heaven" (II Cor. 12:2), Saturn. The Holy Place was 2 cubes put together. It represented the 1st and 2nd heavens, Mars and Jupiter. In Ant. III. VI. 7, Josephus said that the candlestick "spread itself into as many branches as there are planets, including the sun among them." The naked eye planets were meant. Therefore, the candlestick represented the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. Earth is the central lamp. Saturn's lamp was on the east. The western light was to always be kept burning because it represented the Sun. When the Sun entered Aries, it was the Spring Equinox.

I had it in my head that there was a curtain at the door of the Holy Place. According to Josephus, there wasn't one there, but only at the door of the Holy of Holies. Now Ernest Martin's writing about being able to see the split veil from the Mt. of Olives makes more sense to me. I just lacked that piece of the puzzle to see the larger picture clearly. Agape

His reply

Thanks for writing Marilyn. My comments were a little too abrasive. Keep up your research. We will still be able to learn from each other as we approach the end. God Bless your studies.

Incoming email

I just want to say that I loved "Heaven Found" I read it through twice now. I have written on the biblical passages down in my notebook and I just generally love it. Any chance you will write anymore about where Heaven really is.

My reply

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

I don't think I have time now to write books. It isn't just the time it takes to write it, but it can take 2 years to get it into print after that. Then people have to read it. I'm just putting everything on my Web Page now. It can be read as soon as I finish UL it. There are probably 7700 pages of just the Pro and Cons, where incoming email and my answers are posted. That doesn't count the other files I have posted. Pro and Con 778 (probably will be posted tomorrow night) has some interesting things Josephus said about things in the temple representing things in the heavens. Agape

Incoming email

Re: pinpointing the JNY rapture
I'm inclined to favor the Jewish New Year (Rosh Hashana) as the most likely date for the rapture, possibly, even, this year - for various reasons.

To pinpoint it even further, what do you think about it occurring at the END of the second day in Jerusalem on their sundown. I'm not sure what that exact time might be. But, that way every time zone would have been touched.

My reply

Since only one day was set up for the Feast of Trumpets in Lev. 23:24. I lean toward Tishri 1, Jerusalem time.

De. 11: 14 says, "I will give you the rain of your land in HIS DUE SEASON, the first rain (former rain) and the latter rain." Hos. 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter (malqowsh, gathered spring rain; Second Advent on Nisan 1, Eze. 29:17,21) and former rain (yara, to flow as water, to point out as if by aiming the finger, to teach, instruct) unto the earth."

I think Jesus was born as the former rain on Tishri 1, and that the Pre-Wrath Rapture will be on Tishri 1, but could this indicate that the Pre-Trib Rapture would also be on Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets? The "trump of God" will sound at the Rapture (I Thess. 4:16). This would be a fitting day for the 1st trump to sound.

Micah 7:1 says, "Woe is me! for I am as (figurative language, Micah is cast as one left behind at the 1st Rapture) when they have gathered (asaph, removed or taken away) the summer fruits, as the grapegleanings of the vintage (the vintage is in Elul and Tishri): there is no cluster to eat: my soul desired the firstripe fruit. The good man is perished (abad, escaped, evacuated) out of the earth: and there is none upright among men: they all lie in wait for blood; they hunt every man his brother with a net. It seems that the Rapture will be when there are ripe grape clusters.

Song of Sol. 7:7-9 speaks of the Bride and the Resurrection/Rapture. It says, "thy stature is like (like and as are symbolic language) to a palm tree (upright), and thy breasts to clusters of grapes (2 groups to be raptured). I said, I will go up to the palm tree, I will take hold of the boughs thereof: now also thy breasts shall be as clusters of the vine, and the smell of thy nose like apples; And the roof of thy mouth like the best wine for my beloved, that goeth down sweetly, causing the lips of those that are asleep to speak."

In Nu. 13:20, Moses told the spies to see "what the land is, whether it be fat or lean, whether there be wood therein, or not. And be ye of good courage, and bring of the fruit of the land. Now the time was the time of the firstripe grapes." I thought the time of the firstripe grapes was at Pentecost, but when they came back was when they brought with them "one cluster of grapes" (v. 23). Verse 25 says, "they returned from searching the land after FORTY DAYS."

The Israelites left Mt. Sinai on Iyar 20 (Nu. 10:11). "And they departed from the mount of the LORD THREE DAYS' JOURNEY." The people complained, "saying, Give us flesh, that we may eat" (11:13). They ate quail "a WHOLE MONTH" (11:20). Then they waited SEVEN MORE DAYS until Miriam could be received back into the camp (12:14). Therefore, the spies may have been sent in on Sivan 30. The spies came back with the cluster of grapes 40 days later (13:25). That could be Av 11 (July 31 in 2001).

Av is the principle fruit month. Grapes, figs, walnuts and olives are ready to harvest (Unger). Song of Sol. 2:13 says, "The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell. Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away." July 31 seems like another possibility. Agape

Incoming email

Re: South Africa
I wondered if you got any information on the South African testimony that someone wrote to you about in your P&C. My niece Sarah was chosen by the Rotary International to be a foreign exchange student in East London, South Africa. She leaves on Thursday morning July 19, 2001. I was hoping that someone would write and confirm or deny the missionary testimony about the gangs, etc. Nonetheless, if you get any return mail on that issue would you e-mail me.

Thanks...also, please pray for her as she travels and stays over there going to high school for one year. She is 16. My sister has great faith. Love to you and your family.

My reply

Thanks for reminding me. Sorry to take so long to get them posted. 591 emails is big enough for me to forget things in the stack. Here are two.
God Bless you for your faithful study, and being such an encouragement to us all.

I would like to respond to the report on South Africa in P&C 773. The article paints a very gloomy picture indeed, but we still have a good life down here!

South Africa hasn't spiralled into a lawless pit, and we haven't got bands of criminals running around, making the country ungovernable.

Yes, the value of the local currency has dipped to less than half of what it was in 1994, but on the positive side, for the first time in many years we are enjoying a single digit inflation rate, and the interest rates are almost half of what they were six years ago.

Our biggest single problem is the high unemployment rate, (which is greater than 55%) and the steady influx over our border of millions of illegal aliens, from neigbor states. These factors contribute to the high crime rate, and I know for a fact that at least 20% of the homes in our area were burgled during December alone.

The rape and murder statistic is very high compared to other developed countries, and hijacking of cars is quite a serious problem. But, all these statistics are pale in comparison with the AIDS related deaths in South Africa, which is around 50 000 per month

Yes, we do live a life behind bars. High walls (not two foot thick), topped with barbed or electric wire, private security firms, security gates (we even have an additional one in our stairwell). Our vehicles are equipped with alarms, satelitte tracking, immobilisers, gear- and steering locks. There is a company that introduced a flamethrowing device, but I don't know of anyone using it, and also doubt that it has been legalised !

I must make it quite clear that the South African public has not been disarmed. Personally, I don't own a weapon, could legally aquire one if I wanted to, but stand on the Lord's promise in Psalm 91 instead.

The Police has been thinned out, and really haven't got the resources to cope with the crime situation effectively. Please pray for the authorities to deal will this situation. Most people here have a high awareness level, and by just being alert, and taking a few precautionary steps, live a life largely unaffected by crime.

Unfortunately, I have to agree that corruption exists in various levels of government, but I must say the recent drive to erradicate it has proven rather successful indeed.

But you will be amazed at what God is doing here, He is faithfull!!. The modern and traditional churches, and may I add, across the colour line, are linking together in an unprecedented way. The believers here are realising that Father has a special plan for our country, why else would Satan be throwing the book at us?
To counter the crime situation, the Christians here in Tshwane, (formerly Pretoria) besides praying, are now GIVING. (opposite of stealing ) You will not believe how congregations are reaching out to the poor and needy communities right now ! Our congregation has embarked on a serious path of servanthood evangelism.

I also want to share with you a testimony of a lady, from our city, who's car was hijacked. The robbers sped of in her vehicle, with her five year old daughter still strapped into the baby seat. The lady immediately phoned a member of her Bible cell group, to join her in prayer for her little girl's protection. Only then did she contact the Police for assistance, who found the vehicle abandoned on the freeway a half an hour later, front doors wide open, the girl unharmed in the back seat.

When they questioned the little girl about what happened, she said that they were driving very fast on the freeway, when suddenly a very large angel came, stood on the hood, and pushed a sword into the engine, which stopped the car immediately. The two men jumped out and ran away !

We live in a land of opportunity, where people are hungry for Christ. Thank You Jesus for placing us, and equipping us, to serve You here. Agape
P&C 773 refers. Re South Africa.
I would like to know exactly where this guest preacher was in South Africa. Sure we have a high crime rate, but I believe the evil we experience is not too much different to what we read happens elsewhere in the world. I believe it's a small percentage evil doers that are responsible.

Not to worry - Satan has not taken over South Africa - South Africa is indeed in God's hands. God IS IN CONTROL - not to worry.

There are not 'roving gangs everywhere' and the government has not 'broken down'. If they 'could not take it anymore' and left our beautiful country - perhaps their faith in our living God is not strong? I believe in Proverbs 24:10 "..if you faint in the day of adversity, your faith is small.." (I can't check this scripture - as I do not have my Bible with me at work now). Although it does not sound as though they experienced adversity - they just heard fearful men uttering their fears - the righteous are as bold as a lion.

I believe there's nowhere to run to in this world - every place has its evils, whether it's crime, idolatory..... whatever the enemy would dress it up in. In the shelter of His wings ALONE do we dwell in safety.

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Updated 7-16-01