Pro and Con 786

Posted 8-2-01

http://www.msnbc.com/news/606898.asp
NBC - BAGHDAD, Iraq, July 31 Saddam Hussein is repositioning and dispersing his military forces and anti-aircraft missile batteries in anticipation of U.S. airstrikes..."He's trying to get as much as he can undercover," NBC's Jim Miklaszewski reported one official as saying Tuesday.

Incoming email

...There is another tip I can give you about e-mail attachments that might be of help. One of the reasons for the fast spread of e-mail viruses is down to Microsoft. In the old days (i.e about 10 years ago!!), files under the Windows operating system had two components, a name and an "extension", usually a three letter code after the name, like "story.doc". The ".doc" identified it as a file for use with Microsoft Word, and allowed you to edit it with MS Word. Different extensions were used for different programs (e.g. .xls was a Microsoft Excel Spreadsheet, and so forth). However, since Windows 95, Microsoft has got too clever for its own good, and has introduced a feature, which is switched on by default, of hiding the extensions for known file types. So nowadays, unless you switch it off, a microsoft word file (e.g. "myletter.doc") is only displayed as "myletter", with an icon with the "W" logo for Microsoft word by it. Now this apparently harmless feature has been exploited by virus writers, who send e-mail attachments. What they do is to send a file with a _double extension_. So the file they might send (as in the Sircam virus) actually has the name something like "myfile.doc.vbs". What this means is that the acutal file extension is ".vbs", which is a Visual Basic Script, and is the language many viruses are written in. But if the hiding of the file extension is switched off, what it looks like is "myfile.doc", and so you think it's a Microsoft Word file that can be opened, and so many people open it innocently, and thereby run the VBS script and infect themselves with the virus. There is a way to disable this vulnerability. Just go to "My Computer", open up the folder and select the "Tools" menu. Then select "Folder Options", and select the "View" tab on the dialog box. Then on the 9th line there is an option "Hide file extensions for known file types". If there is a tick in the check box next to this, click in the box, to remove the tick. Then the file extensions will be shown for all files. After that, if you get an e-mail with attachments that have a double extensions (I got one recently which was "filename.jpg.pif", they you _know_ it's a virus sent with malicious intent (or probably unwittingly). Files with single extensions are less likely to be a problem, though you should be aware of ".doc" files, as these are Microsoft Word, and can contain Visual Basic scripts. A good virus scanner program should take care of these thoug. However, I think image files (e.g. ".jpg" and ".bmp" and ".gif" are likely to be safe. The worst that can happen opening these is that the program fails to recognise the picture.

The motto here for attachments is:
(1) Double file extensions (eg file.doc.vbs ) = VIRUS !!!! DO NOT OPEN UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.
(2) Files from MS Office (e.g .doc .xls, .ppt) may have Visual Basic macros, and potentially are viruses. Make sure you have an up to date virus scanner (or have set Word/Excel to warn if a file opened contains Visual Basic macros).
(3) Image files, such as .jpg .bmp are OK PROVIDED you set the system to display all file extensions.
(4) .txt files are OK - AGAIN only if you set the system to display all file extension.

Hope the above is of use to you.

I have one question concerning Old Testament Chronology. All your calculations are based on adding up the numbers as integers. What about the problem of intervening months? (e.g. Methuselah might have been 187 years and 11 months old when he became the father of Lamech, and so forth). If these all added up over the generations, one could be several years out. Now, it looks to me as if the numbers are arranged to be precisely worked out, but on the other hand we know that a year isn't the smallest division for dates, even if it is cited in the text. How is it therefore, that he can obtain precise A.H. dates simply by adding up elapsed times that are rounded to the nearest integer? (I hope you understand that I'm not trying to debunk here; I just would like to know how one reconciles this). In Christ

My reply

...I unchecked my "Hide extensions for known file types."...Thanks much.

In Bible chronology, everything gets set straight when we add Dan. 9:25's 483 years to BC 454. 483 - BC 454 + 1 (no zero year) = 30 AD, the Crucifixion.

Martin Anstey, author of The Romance of Bible Chronology, found an eighty-two year mistake in the era of the Persian kings. BC 536 - 82 = BC 454. Ezekiel was to "bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days...each day for a year" (Eze. 4:6). 30 AD + 40 = 70 AD, when the temple was burned. Everything fits. The temple was begun in BC 20/19. It was 46 years in building in 27 AD, the 1st Passover of Jesus' ministry. I think Jesus was born in BC 5, and was about 30 when baptized in AD 26. That was the 15th year of the reign of Tiberius. He was made Co-Rex in 12 AD, Sole-Rex in 14 AD, and had sole jurisdiction over Palestine from 12 AD on.

Also, the reign of Judges or Kings was counted as beginning on Nisan 1, the Jewish Regnal Year, regardless of when he actually began to rule. Agape

From 5doves site

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2001/caps728.htm
"JORDAN AND I THES. 5:1-4" - CAPS (28 July)
With conflicting reports of whether or not Saddam is actually inside Jordan , the following thought came to me tonight. I have been amazed , if this is true, that the major news bureaus have not reported this. Then I thought...well...when the actual Day of the Lord starts...probably at the same time as the Rapture...it says in the verses in I Thes. 5:1-4 that "that day should not overtake YOU as a Thief.."

This seems to indicate that the destruction of the coming of the Day of the LORD WILL overtake the world as a THIEF---quickly and UNEXPECTANTLY. Is this prophecy being FULFILLED before our eyes ? We "see the day approaching" while the world fixates on local scandals and is totally oblivious to the events that are about to hit as a THIEF IN THE NIGHT. Perhaps this is the spiritual reason behind the "news blackout" that is currently taking place. Verse 3 says "then SUDDEN DESTRUCTION comes on them....and they shall not escape." That is for those who are in darkness. Perhaps the spirit of delusion has already been sent. We shall soon see.

My reply

> > ...actual Day of the Lord starts...probably at the same time as the Rapture

To keep ourselves properly oriented in time as we watch, we need to remember that the millennial Day of the Lord will not come until the day the Great Tribulation is shortened. Mal. 4:5 says, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet BEFORE THE COMING OF THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD." I take it that Elijah will finish his 1260-days of prophesying before the Millennium begins on the Day of God's Wrath.

Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for THE DAY OF THE LORD IS AT HAND, and as A DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY shall it come. Joel 2:1,2 says, "Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for THE DAY OF THE LORD COMETH, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations." This is when Gog's united nations' army attacks Israel on the Day of God's Wrath. Eze. 38:18-20 tells us about the worldwide earthquake when the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth to put an end to this attack. It is when God's fury comes up in his face (v. 18). It is God's wrath (v. 19)

> > I Thes. 5:1-4 ...This seems to indicate that the destruction of the coming of the Day of the LORD WILL overtake the world as a THIEF---quickly and UNEXPECTANTLY. Is this prophecy being FULFILLED before our eyes ?

I don't think this passage can come true before both Raptures take place. There are 2 different groups of people addressed, the brethren that shall escape in the Raptures and they that shall not escape in the Raptures. I Thess. 5:1-6 says, "But of the times and the seasons, BRETHREN, YE have no need that I write unto YOU. For YOURSELVES know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when THEY shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon THEM, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY SHALL NOT ESCAPE. But YE, BRETHREN, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief. YE are all the children of light, and the children of the day: WE are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let US not sleep, as do others; but let US watch and be sober." Agape

Incoming email

From: South Africa - Thank you for your reply. In continuance please look at these possibilities, the Corinthians, as they read about the "last trumpet" from Paul, could easily identify the first trumpet in their own Scripture, and there was no need for them to resort to trumpets not yet written about in Revelation. Paul alludes to the feasts four times in 1 Corinthians, and twice in the fifteenth chapter; so it would be perfectly natural for the Corinthians to catch the allusion to the feasts. This they could understand; a non-existent book they could not understand.(even though Paul was caught up in the spirit and entered the third heaven where he saw marvellous things) The Lord told Moses to make two trumpets of silver. Why two trumpets? We know from Isaiah 27:1213 that one is fulfilled in Israel and we know from 1 Corinthians 15:52 that one is fulfilled in the church. The trumpets were blown to "gather" the people (Numbers 10:23,7) just as God will blow the trumpet to gather the church and to gather Israel on separate occasions. But how do we know that these two silver trumpets were the same ones blown at the Feast of Trumpets? Because Numbers 10:10 says that these should be blown "in the beginnings of your months." And the Feast of Trumpets was the beginning of the seventh month. The Passover Feast (Leviticus 23:45) finds its fulfilment in 1 Cor. 5:7, "Christ, our Passover, is sacrificed for us."

The Feast of Unleavened Bread (Leviticus 23:68) finds fulfilment in 1 Corinthians 5:8, "Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."
The Feast of Firstfruits (Leviticus 23:914) pictures the resurrection of Christ according to 1 Corinthians 15:20: "But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept."
The Feast of Weeks, or Pentecost (Leviticus 23:1522) is fulfilled in Acts 2 by the coming of the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost.
The Day of Atonement (Leviticus 23:2032) pictures Christ's atonement for us (Hebrews 910).
The Feast of Tabernacles (Leviticus 23:3444) prefigures the time of blessing (Deuteronomy 16:14) during the millennium (Revelation 21:3), during which the church will participate as rulers (Revelation 20:4).

The Feast of Trumpets (Leviticus 23:2325) finds its fulfilment where? We have seen that each of the other feasts has prophetic significance for the church. Can you see any church-related event to which we could point the fulfilment of this feast? Maybe the Feast of Trumpets is the only feast that has no fulfilment in the church. Or could it be that the first trumpet is fulfilled in the "last trumpet"? Just a possibility that makes good sense to me.

...I do believe in a pre-trib rapture, the scriptures to me are very clear on this, but since I have read your pages (almost three years) and as much as I have treasured your views I do not believe or should I say, I am not convinced that there are two raptures. I think that the other group seen in heaven after the rapture are all tribulation saints who were killed and actually died for their faith. The tribulation strengthened their belief, their realisation that the "Great disappearance" was in fact a meeting with the Lord made them pick up scripture and study the word of God, their salvation comes through death. Who lives through into the "Millennium?" These are definitely believers because ALL unbelievers are put into the winepress of Gods wrath. After the rapture and during the tribulation many people will believe and be saved. These tribulation saints will be saved by the same means that people today are saved. The identical gospel and the identical salvation will apply during that time. The only difference is that they will be saved after the rapture, too late to gain a new body. If they survive the tribulation they will enter the millennium in their natural bodies. Tribulation Saints must not be afraid to die at the hands of the antichrist. If he kills you, you will have a new body very shortly. If he doesn't kill you, you will be stuck with your natural body for another 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years all will receive immortal bodies, because "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God" I have often been drawn to the comparison that the Lord made "as in the days of Noah" Noah and Lot seem to typify tribulation saints, Jesus is explaining the events which immediately precede the visible aspect of the kingdom. The days of Noah and Lot immediately precede the total destruction of the wicked (which happens at the end of the tribulation), not partial destruction (which happens during the tribulation). In other words, Noah's flood symbolises Armageddon, not the tribulation itself. Both escapes represent the Rapture, the seven years of entering as a Saint firstly through the rapture and then the tribulation saints through dying for their faith might be illustrated in that Noah took seven days to gather everything into the ark. Lot's wife is an example for anyone who wants to remain a part of the world system of the antichrist, she hesitates and is lost.

This is just how I see things Marilyn and I hope you don't mind sharing or commenting on these points. God bless you and Ed and also all the readers of your most inspiring site. Thanks for listening, kind regards

My reply

Sorry to be so long in answering. Thanks for your kind words.

> > the Corinthians, as they read about the "last trumpet" from Paul, could easily identify the first trumpet in their own Scripture, and there was no need for them to resort to trumpets not yet written about in Revelation.

There is a good chance that the Corinthians had already seen I Thessalonians. It was the earliest of Paul's letters to the churches and was written in Corinth in 54 AD soon after Paul left Thessalonica. I Corinthians was written in 59 AD after Paul's 3 years in Ephesus. There was no necessity of their knowing anything about the judgment trumpets of Revelation. They would not be on Earth when that judgment would be made. They would be in Heaven receiving their rewards at that time. Rev. 11:18 says, "the nations were angry (Gog's army is attacking Israel), and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give REWARD UNTO THY SERVANTS the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, SMALL AND GREAT; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

In 1 Thess. 4:16,17, Paul said, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air." This is THE FIRST TRUMP OF GOD.

I Cor. 15:51-53 says, "we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." This is THE LAST TRUMP OF GOD.

Jewish tradition says that the first trump was blown on Pentecost, the last trump blown on the Feast of Trumpets (the day of the awakening blast), and the great trump blown on the Day of Atonement. However, it seems to me that the last trump and the great trump are both blown on the Feast of Trumpets. Of Tishri 1 (Trumpets), Isa. 27:12,13 says, "it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river (Euphrates) unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel. And it shall come to pass in that day (the feast of Trumpets), that the GREAT TRUMPET shall be blown, and they shall (in the future) come which were ready to perish in the land of Assyria, and the outcasts in the land of Egypt, and shall worship the LORD in the holy mount at Jerusalem."

> > The Lord told Moses to make two trumpets of silver. Why two trumpets? We know from Isaiah 27:1213 that one is fulfilled in Israel and we know from 1 Corinthians 15:52 that one is fulfilled in the church. The trumpets were blown to "gather" the people (Numbers 10:23,7) just as God will blow the trumpet to gather the church and to gather Israel on separate occasions. But how do we know that these two silver trumpets were the same ones blown at the Feast of Trumpets? Because Numbers 10:10 says that these should be blown "in the beginnings of your months." And the Feast of Trumpets was the beginning of the seventh month.

At the first trump, the 24 elders (12 patriarchs and 12 apostles of Israel) will be raised up. Along with those Israelites, there will be others "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" (Rev. 5:9). These have on spiritual white wedding garments.

At the last trump, there will be 144,000 Israelites caught up. Along with those Israelites, there will be "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues" (Rev. 7:9). These come "out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." At the time of the first Rapture, these did not have on spiritual white garments.

We know from Rev. 14:4,5 that the 144,000 out of the great tribulation are virgins, without fault before the throne of God. The Marriage of the Lamb takes place right after the Pre-Trib Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath. Mark 13:27 says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (2nd Rapture) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN" (those that were previously taken to Heaven in the 1st Rapture.

> > The Feast of Trumpets (Leviticus 23:2325) finds its fulfilment where? We have seen that each of the other feasts has prophetic significance for the church. Can you see any church-related event to which we could point the fulfilment of this feast? Maybe the Feast of Trumpets is the only feast that has no fulfilment in the church. Or could it be that the first trumpet is fulfilled in the "last trumpet"? Just a possibility that makes good sense to me.

The 2nd Rapture is on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the Millennium. At that time, the church is completed, even to those that build wood, hay and stubble upon Christ the foundation. They are saved so as by fire. I Cor. 3:11-15 says, "other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire."

The first Rapture is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37f). The second Rapture is as the days of Lot. Luke 17:29-32 says, "But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30). In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife."

> > I am not convinced that there are two raptures. I think that the other group seen in heaven after the rapture are all tribulation saints who were killed

For this to be true, we would need Scripture verification. Neither Rev. 7 nor Rev. 14:2-5 says that they were killed. There is good reason to think that they are not killed. Eze. 9:4-6 says, "the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a MARK upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof. And to the others he said in mine hearing, GO YE AFTER HIM THROUGH THE CITY, AND SMITE: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: BUT COME NOT NEAR ANY MAN UPON WHOM IS THE MARK; and begin at my sanctuary." The sealing is quickly followed by God's wrath, just as Rev. 7's sealing is quickly followed by the Pre-Wrath Rapture of Rev. 7:14 and then the 7th seal of Rev. 8's unleashing the 7 trumpet judgments on Earth.

> > If he doesn't kill you, you will be stuck with your natural body for another 1000 years. At the end of the 1000 years all will receive immortal bodies, because "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God"

"ALL" believers are changed at the Second Rapture, at the last trump, and all believers receive immortality at the beginning of the kingdom of God. I Cor. 15:51-53 says, "we (believers) shall ALL be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP; for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY."

All Israel will be saved that day (Isa. 66:8). They will live on into the Millennium on Earth.

> > Noah and Lot seem to typify tribulation saints

In Noah's case, water fell. In Lots' case, fire fell. They are not representing the same Rapture. Noah was safe. He was floated upward by the water that represents the Holy Spirit. If you will read the things the people were doing in Noah's day, you will see that they were marrying and giving in marriage. In Lot's day, marriage is not mentioned at all. Noah represents the Bride group that are caught up before the Tribulation. Noah and his sons had their wives in the Ark with them. All the male animals had their females with them. That portrayed marriage.

Lot represents the Tribulation saints that are caught up on the same day the fire falls. Luke 17:29 says, "But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all." An asteroid destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities of the plain, just as the asteroids will destroy on the Day of God's Wrath. The asteroid that fell in Lot's day cracked the Earth from Turkey to Lake Nyassa in Africa. We call it the Great Rift Valley.

> > Noah's flood symbolises Armageddon, not the tribulation itself

Since all believers "small and great" (Rev. 11:18) must be in Heaven before the wrath of God falls, and Armageddon is after Christ returns to Earth 7 months later at the Second Advent, and since we have to have been taken to Heaven previously in order to return with him, Noah's Flood cannot represent Armageddon. Agape

Incoming email

From: South Africa
Thanks again for your wonderful input encouraging all your readers to search out the scriptures. Nature points us to our Creator, but only the bible with the help of the Holy Spirit points us to our saviour Jesus Christ. As you know I have been following your pages since 1998 and have studied and prayed for guidance extremely hard since then, I have reached a greater understanding and have enjoyed the lessons learnt largely thanks to your studies ( through agreeing and disagreeing with your interpretation). Having said this, and having passed your speculated dates 3 times I have come to the conclusion that we can know the time (more or less) according to the signs which are clearly prophesied in the Holy Scriptures, but I do not think that as a hopeful pre-tribulation Saint, that we will know the exact day or hour. I think that the only group that will be able to count exactly the time of their departure/redemption will be the tribulation saints. We have to live watching and praying always as in Luke, but watching would then point to watchful living, always being prepared for the return of the Lord, our return to Him could be through death or at these times through an any moment Rapture, (Matthew 24:42)"Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come." (Matthew 26:41) Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation (tribulation): the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak. (Rev 3:3) Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. (Trib-Saints are being called to repentance) If therefore thou shalt not watch, (they can now count the exact days according to Daniel 9:27, 12:7 and Rev 12:6, 13:5) I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.(unbelievers will still not know due to "un-watchful" living) This could be a dual application calling all believers to repentance, but most Spirit filled believers have a close walk with Christ already and have repented already and continue to do so on a daily basis through prayer and a strong conscience of right and wrong, therefor the Lord will not come as a surprise or a thief in the night to this group. In conclusion I think (and this is only my opinion) that there is a known day versus and unknown day before and after the Rapture. Can you imagine being left behind, but having a knowledge (head-knowledge) of prophecy, after repenting and accepting Christ, would we not then be counting off the days according to Daniel 12:11 "And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days."? Would we also not then know exactly when our Lord would return? I know I would be marking off the days if it were me. (Matthew 24:3) And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. All what things? (Answer) Read Matthew 24: it tells of all the events leading up to the second coming of Christ including the tribulation, the anti-christ etc. would these not be the signs of the fig tree? The leaves of the fig tree would be depicting the tribulation events, "summer" (a time of rejoicing) being near would be after the "winter" (tribulation) "it" being near even at the doors, would be Christ's return or the second coming as we know it. I think that more signs will be given to the trib Saints than to us as it is their "last chance". We are already "watching and praying and hopefully worthy". Your thoughts will be appreciated as always. Many Thanks as always.

Much love to you and your family, your friend in Christ (still hope to see you soon, in the clouds of Glory)

My reply

We may not (know), but we just might guess pretty close. Consider Cheshvan 17, when Noah went into the Ark.

The Lord's day in Rev. 1:10 seems to be the first Day of the Son of Man in Luke 17:26. It says, "as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the DAYS of the Son of man." The plural "days" ties both Raptures in to the days of Noah. At the first Rapture, the Lord will say to the righteous of this generation, "COME UP HITHER" (Rev. 4:1). In Gen. 7:1, "the LORD said unto Noah, COME THOU AND ALL THY HOUSE into the ark; FOR THEE HAVE I SEEN RIGHTEOUS BEFORE ME IN THIS GENERATION." Noah went in on Cheshvan 17.

Gen. 8:13 seems to apply to the second Rapture. It "came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month (Tishri 1), the waters were dried up from off the earth." I think that is the date of the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

On Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, "Noah removed the COVERING of the ark" (Gen. 7:13). The Ark stands for Christ our Saviour. The veil seems to be removed on Tishri 1, 5768, when people look up and see the Sign of the Son of Man (Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6: 14f). Isa. 25:7 says, "he will destroy in this mountain the face of the COVERING cast over all people, and the VAIL that is spread over all nations."

Since Thursday, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007) seems to apply to the Pre-Wrath Rapture, maybe Saturday, Cheshvan 17, 5762 (Nov. 3, 2001) applies to the Pre-Trib Rapture. It won't take very long to find out.

> > If therefore thou shalt not watch, (they can now count the exact days according to Daniel 9:27, 12:7 and Rev 12:6, 13:5) I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.(unbelievers will still not know due to "un-watchful" living)

The shortening of the Great Tribulation may change figures that apply to that time. Agape

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