Pro and Con 788

Posted 8-6-01

Prayer is needed for Rose and Sterling Hunter and her parents, Frank and Helen.
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I got a copy of the Snowhite and Seven Dwarfs virus, W32/Hybris.gen@MM.
From: hahaha@veryfun.net, 32KB, 2 attachments
Message: Today, Snowhite was turning 18. The 7 Dwarfs always where very educated and polite with Snowhite. When they go out work at mornign, they promissed a *huge* surprise. Snowhite was anxious. Suddlently, the door open, and the Seven Dwarfs enter...
More info at McAfee:
http://vil.nai.com/villib/dispVirus.asp?virus_k=98873
"AVERT cautions all users to delete unexpected attachments."
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Also watch for Code Red II virus. A patch is available at Microsoft. It only infects servers and users of Windows NT and 2000.

Incoming email

Re: protect yourself from virus
If you NEVER want to see another email attachment again, here is what to do. It is a simple thing that will eliminate about 95% of your risk of virus.

Go to Outlook express-tools-message rules-mail. Click on mail rules tab, then new.
Then click on this rule: When message has an attachment
Click on this Action: Delete it from server
Click on OK, then OK again. That's it. You will never see another attachment. I have had to do this as someone sent me a sir cam tonight. Best regards PS: this deletes both the attachment AND the email that carried it.

My reply

Thanks lots. I did it. I would rather people e-mail me URLs, Web pages or Copy and Paste into the e-mail document. Agape

My reply to a posting on 5doves site

To: James Hacker, Re: [GJiGT] STRONG Delusion, By Jim Searcy

Those letters stand for Searcy's web page, Great Joy in Great Tribulation. Sad to say, he does not think there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture. He thinks we should prepare for the Tribulation, even though Jesus didn't give us any such instructions.

Searcy wrote:
> > "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a failing away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition" (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3).
> > Jesus' return will not take place until two things happen:
> > 1. A great apostasy will occur. Many who once knew God will fall away from the truth of the gospel they've known.
> > 2. The Antichrist, or man of sin, will be "revealed."
> > It should be obvious to every lover of Jesus that a "falling away" is already taking place. Many believers today, as well as Christians throughout the past few decades, have grown cold in their love for God. The sad part is that they don't know that their love has grown cold. They can see it in others but they cannot see it in themselves.
> > "Jesus won't come until the Antichrist's full plan and agenda are exposed, and the church is made aware of it." Do you see Antichrist's full plans and agenda being exposed?

This kind of teaching leads to a person's watching for Antichrist instead of for Christ. Speaking to the churches in Rev. 3:3, Jesus said, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." Our watching should be for our Lord's coming, not for the false christ's coming.

There are two groups, one that will not escape in the Pre-Trib Rapture, and one that will escape. I Thess. 5:1-6 says, "But of the times and the seasons, BRETHREN, YE have no need that I write unto YOU. For YOURSELVES know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when THEY shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon THEM, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY SHALL NOT ESCAPE" (ekpheugo, flee out, i.e., be raptured). But YE, BRETHREN, are not in darkness, that THAT DAY (1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord) should overtake YOU as a thief. YE are all the children of light, and the children of the day: WE are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let US not sleep, as do others; but let US watch and be sober." Luke 21:36 says, "Watch YE therefore, and pray always, that YE MAY BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE (ekpheugo, flee out, i.e., be raptured) all these things (in the Tribulation) that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

When I ran a Search for the word "watch," I found out that the first use in the New Testament is in Mt. 14:25. It says, "in the fourth watch of the night Jesus went unto them, walking on the sea." That makes me wonder what the fourth watch might depict, the four years in the parable of the barren fig tree in Lu. 13:6-9? 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001?

II Thess. 2:3 in the World English Bible says, "Let no one deceive you in any way. For it (the millenial Day of the Lord) will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE (Rapture) COMES FIRST, and the man of sin is revealed (second), the son of destruction."

II Thess. 2:6-8 (WEB) says, "Now you know WHAT IS RESTRAINING HIM (the false christ), to the end that he (the false christ) may be revealed in his (the false christ's) own season (the Tribulation). For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one (the Holy Spirit in the salt of the Earth) who restrains now, until he (the Holy Spirit) is taken out of the way (at the time of the Rapture of the Bride of Christ). Then (tote, at that same time, i.e., when the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place) the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nothing by the brightness of his coming."

The lawless one cannot be revealed until the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place. Agape

Incoming email

Re: God bless!
Thanks for responding. Sorry to hear about all the health problems that you and your husband are going through. I pray that the Lord will be merciful and bless both of you with His healing and rejuvinating presence.

I know you're very busy, but would you consider updating the "Expected Chronology of endtime events" file? It would probably take less than 10 minutes, and then people could see how this December is the critical time.

I have an idea about Daniel 12:5-7, that it could have a secondary meaning. I've looked through lots of commentary books but haven't found any that considered this. My idea is that in verse 5 Daniel brings us back to the present, when he had this vision, which I am assuming from Daniel 11:1 is the first year of Darius. So the question in verse 6 could mean how long will it be from now (first year of Darius) until the end of these wonders. Perhaps the "end of these wonders" means the end of all prophesied events in the Bible, when Satan is finally cast into the lake of fire. Then the answers in verse 7, that it would be in three and a half times would mean three and a half great days, or 3,500 years. In any case it is interesting that Daniel had this vision approximately half way through the great week. I'm not sure if Daniel 11:1 implies that the vision was in the first year of Darius, or exactly when that year was. For instance if the first year of Darius was 486 bc then the end of these wonders would be 3015 a.d. which would put the start of the millennium at 2015 a.d.. I'd be curious to know the date that Martin Anstey gives for Darius.

Anyways, the main thing is to seek the Lord and submit to His will. That is our calling no matter how long we have left. Shalom

My reply

Two of our grandkids go back and forth between their mother, who now has mononucleosis, and our son David that lives with us. I just pray that none of us, Ed, Marilyn, David, Brian, or Brandi, gets mono.

I'm working on that update you asked for and taking all traces of pe.net out of my Web site.

> > My idea is that in verse 5 (Dan. 12:5) Daniel brings us back to the present, when he had this vision, which I am assuming from Daniel 11:1 is the first year of Darius.

Let's see. Dan. 11:31 says, "arms shall stand on his (first, Antiochus Epiphanes's, and last, the False Prophet's) part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. This will come Mid-Trib (Mt. 24:15). What Antiochus did demonstrates how we are to take Mt. 24:15.

Verse 35 overleaps the centuries and brings us to "the time of the end," the 3.5-year Great Tribulation. From 11:36 on, it is about "the time of the end" (Dan. 11:40). Chapter 12 is hooked to chapter 11:45, where the False Prophet "shall come to his end." Dan. 12:1,2 says, "at that time shall Michael stand up...and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION even to that same time: and at that time thy people (the 144,000 Israelites, Rev. 7:1f;14:4,5) shall be delivered (malat, escape, leap out, i.e., the Pre-Wrath Rapture), every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." This is "the indignation" (zaam, froth at the mouth anger, rage) of 11:36, the Day of God's Wrath, when fury comes up in his face (Eze. 38:18), the day of Jacob's trouble. Jer. 30:7 says, "Alas! for THAT DAY (1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord) is great, so that NONE IS LIKE IT: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble, but he shall be saved out of it." There is no other day like this one--ever.

Dan. 12:4 says, "shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the TIME OF THE END" (i.e., the Great Tribulation). Verse 6 asks, "How long shall it be to THE END of these wonders?" Verse 7 says "it shall be for a time, times, and an half (3.5 years, Rev. 12:6,14); and when he (the False Prophet) shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, ALL THESE THINGS SHALL BE FINISHED." This 3.5 years starts "from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up" (Dan. 11:11; Mt. 24:15).

I don't see how Dan. 12:5 can bring us back to Daniel's day. It is sandwiched between v. 4's "TIME OF THE END" and v. 6's "How long shall it be to THE END OF THESE WONDERS?" Verse 7's 3.5 years are when "all THESE things shall be FINISHED."

Anstey might not have listed the first year of Darius, but the first year of Cyrus was BC 454 (BC 536 - 82 year mistake in the era of the Persian kings = BC 454). From there, the chronology skips to 30 AD (Dan. 9:25; 483 - 454 + 1 [no zero year] = 30 AD). The reign of Darius was after that of Cyrus. It would be about BC 437. Agape and Shalom

Incoming e-mail

From CAPS - Re: THE DAY OF THE LORD
Sorry you don't see this. DP

P.S. By the way Elijah has already come for those who have eyes to see it. Will copy an excellent article on this by Eric. Keep studying. I hope you realize that there is progressive revelation in the scriptures. The Church and the Rapture were for the most part mysteries in the scriptures of the Old Testament. I agree with your comment that it is not wise to follow the teachings (solely) of any man or woman. Just let this one thing stay in your thoughts. The New Testament says that the "day of the Lord WILL COME as a THIEF IN THE NIGHT." That CANNOT BE MADE TO BE THE 2ND COMING IN POWER--NO WAY. It should be obvious, but evidently it is not to you.

Joshua, a type of Jesus, had a "LONG DAY" .....didn't he. Besides I thought you understood that the tribualtion was an INTERVAL OF TIME ???? Therefore some of your points in your email re the 1000 years is not applicable to the concept of the "Day of the LOrd."

Post by Eric is below.
"Prove all things, hold fast to that which is good."
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I agree with CAPS, and....I would like to point out that the scripture Marilyn has quoted in Malachi 4:5 does not actually refer to the earlier Elijah from the Book of Kings, but rather to the coming of John The Baptist.

Consider the following scripture, spoken by our Lord Jesus:
"And as they departed, Jesus began to say unto the multitudes concerning JOHN, What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind?

But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

But what went ye out for to see? A prophet? yea, I say unto you, and more than a prophet.

For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. [[Note: References Malachi 3:1]]

Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not risen a greater than John the Baptist: notwithstanding he that is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.

And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.

For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

And if ye will receive it, this is Elias, which was for to come. [[Biblical footnote references Malachi 4:5]]

He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

- Matthew 11: 7-15

See also Luke 7: 24-30, which also quotes the same Old Testament source.

Now, before it is argued, I will agree that the Day of the Lord did not come immediately after John the Baptist came. I would like to point out, however, that the Malachi 4: 5 scripture verse does not say that "Elijah" will come and then "The Day" immediately follows on his heels. Rather, it says that "Elijah" will come before the Day of the Lord comes, without giving a definite timeframe between the events.

.... the Book of Daniel (as well as the Book of Revelation), both lay out a set number of days from a certain event until the end. Given this, how can it (the 2nd coming in Power) be a surprise? See ya in the air, Eric

My reply

> > The New Testament says that the "day of the Lord WILL COME as a THIEF IN THE NIGHT." That CANNOT BE MADE TO BE THE 2ND COMING IN POWER--NO WAY. It should be obvious, but evidently it is not to you.

It is very obvious to me. You must have scanned quickly what I wrote, or you wouldn't repeat the above. That is not like you. Usually, you study every point carefully. Surely you know that I in no way think that the coming of the Day of the Lord is the Second Advent. I think that there are 7 Jewish months between the beginning of the millennial Day of the Lord on Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007) and the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5768 (April 6, 2008).

In Eze. 38:18-20, we find out what happens when God's fury comes up in his face on the Day of God's Wrath, the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. The mountains (asteroids, Rev. 8:8,10) are cast down. The fishes of the Mediterranean Sea shake. All men all over the world shake. Every wall falls worldwide. This is the day the 7 trumpet judgments hit Earth. It is the day the cities of the nations fall and Jerusalem is "divided into three parts" (Rev. 16:18,19). Even the Sign of the Son of Man is shown to be on this day.

In Eze. 38:20, when the worldwide earthquake hits, "all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence." The word presence is paneh, FACE. At the time of the worldwide earthquake, men will shake as they look up in the sky and see Christ sitting on his throne. They say "to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the FACE of him that sitteth on the throne, and from THE WRATH OF THE LAMB" (Rev. 6:16). Eze. 38:23 says, "Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES OF MANY NATIONS, and they shall know that I am the LORD." The Day of God's Wrath is the day that Israel is born in a day (Isa. 66:8).

The day of the Second Advent is 7 months AFTER the Day of God's Wrath. At the Second Advent, Jerusalem is NOT said to be divided into three parts. That takes place on the Day of God's Wrath. At the Second Advent, "the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west" (Zech. 14:5).

Eze. 39:12,13 says, "SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."

> > Joshua, a type of Jesus, had a "LONG DAY" .....didn't he. Besides I thought you understood that the tribualtion was an INTERVAL OF TIME ???? Therefore some of your points in your email re the 1000 years is not applicable to the concept of the "Day of the LOrd."

I don't know what points in my email you don't think apply to the Day of the Lord. You will need to be more specific before I can answer that.

Jesus, from the Greek, is Joshua from the Hebrew. Joshua's Long Day represents Jesus' Long Day, the Day of God's Wrath when the asteroid impacts turn the Earth upside down. Isa. 24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the EARTH empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it UPSIDE DOWN, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof." Concerning Joshua's Long Day, Joshua 10:11 says, "it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that THE LORD CAST DOWN GREAT STONES FROM HEAVEN UPON THEM unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword." This is a small picture of what will happen on Jesus' Long Day, the Day of God's Wrath.

I thought we agreed on Eccl. 8:5: "a wise man's heart discerneth both TIME and JUDGMENT." I think "time" stands for man's 7000-year test, when he is both mortal and knows good and evil. Judgment stands for the interval inserted between the sixth millennium and the 7th millennium. Rev. 3:10 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation (peirasmos, TRIAL), which shall come upon all the world, to TRY (peirazo) them that dwell upon the earth." In law, a trial precedes judgment. The Tribulation is the trial. The judgment falls on the Day of God's Wrath. That is the day of the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven. At that time, believers receive their rewards in Heaven as the unbelievers on Earth get their rewards for their unbelief. Rev. 11:18. This day of judgment is the first day of the millennial Kingdom of Christ.
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Post by Eric:
> > I would like to point out that the scripture Marilyn has quoted in Malachi 4:5 does not actually refer to the earlier Elijah from the Book of Kings, but rather to the coming of John The Baptist.

Mt. 11:14,15 says, "IF YE WILL RECEIVE IT, this is Elias, which was for to come. He that hath ears to hear, let him hear." They did not receive it, so John the Baptist only came in the spirit of Elijah/Elias. After John the Baptist was killed and Jesus had been teaching, Moses and Elijah stood before Jesus at the Transfiguration, "Jesus answered and said unto them (Peter, James, and John, elders in Rev. 4:4), "ELIAS TRULY SHALL (IN THE FUTURE) FIRST COME, AND RESTORE ALL THINGS." There is no way this can apply to John the Baptist, because he was already dead. After he was dead, Elijah was still to come in the future. Elijah hasn't died yet.

Mt. 17:11-13, Jesus said, " But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them. Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."

Rev. 11:4 says that the two witnesses "are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth." This refers back to Zech. 4:11-14. It says, "What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof? And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, THESE ARE THE TWO ANOINTED ONES, THAT STAND BY THE LORD OF THE WHOLE EARTH." The two that stood by Jesus at the Transfiguration were Moses and Elijah, not Moses and John the Baptist.

Elijah will be one of the two witnesses that prophesy during the first 1260 days of the Tribulation. Then, Mal. 4:5 will be fulfilled. Elijah "shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." This prophesying of Elijah is during the first part of the Tribulation, before the curse (asteroid) impact on the Day of God's Wrath, when the Great Tribulation is shortened or no flesh would be saved (Mt. 24:21,22).

> > For this is he, of whom it is written, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. [[Note: References Malachi 3:1]]

There is a break in Mal. 3:1. The part in bold caps applies to John the Baptist at the First Advent. Then it skips to the Second Advent. Mal. 3:1-3 says, "I WILL SEND MY MESSENGER, AND HE SHALL PREPARE THE WAY BEFORE ME: and the LORD, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple (Zech. 14:5), even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come (Second Advent), saith the LORD of hosts. But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap: And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness."

> > I will agree that the Day of the Lord did not come immediately after John the Baptist came. I would like to point out, however, that the Malachi 4: 5 scripture verse does not say that "Elijah" will come and then "The Day" immediately follows on his heels. Rather, it says that "Elijah" will come before the Day of the Lord comes, without giving a definite timeframe between the events.

Mal. 4:6 continues, "And he (Elijah) shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." John the Baptist did not ready the people for the smiting of the Earth with a curse.

This Elijah will do in the first 1260 days of the Tribulation. Because of the prophesying of Moses and Elijah, there will be 144,000 Israelites saved in the Tribulation. They will be raptured before the curse hits Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5) on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord.

> > the Book of Daniel (as well as the Book of Revelation), both lay out a set number of days from a certain event until the end. Given this, how can it (the 2nd coming in Power) be a surprise?

I don't think it will be a surprise to believers. According to Eze. 29:17,21, it will be on Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year. It will follow the 7 months the Jews bury the dead to cleanse the land for the glorious return of Christ (Eze. 39:12,13). That year must be a Jewish Leap Year. Otherwise there would only be 6 months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1. 5768 is a Leap Year. Agape

Incoming email

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/aug2001/craigh82.htm "Question(s) for CAPS post of 8-1-01" - Craig Hughes (2 Aug)
...I'd love to hear your thoughts, or those of others on the Five Doves that I greatly respect, Jim Bramlett, Marylin Agee, to name a few. You guys are great, and I'm gonna like getting to meet you in the future. Of couse, the sooner the better. Amen? Amen. In Christ, and still anxiously waiting, Craig Hughes

My reply

Re: Comments for Craig Hughes
I appreciate your kind words.

You wrote:
> > I find myself thinking we might be already 2 1/2 years (from the Wye agreement in 1998), or 10 months (since Rosh Hashana last year) into the final seven years.

You might be right about the 10 months, but I think it would be of the 7 bad years instead of the 7-year Tribulation. I can't see how we could already be in the Tribulation. It starts when the False Prophet is revealed, and he can't be revealed until after the Rapture. 2Th 2:3,4 (World English Bible) says, "Let no one deceive you in any way. For it (the millennial Day of the Lord) will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE COMES FIRST (the Pre-Trib Rapture is before the covenant is confirmed as the Tribulation begins), and the man of sin is revealed (second, when he confirms the covenant with many), the son of destruction, he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God."

However, we may have entered into the 7 bad years. As you indicated, they could have started Tishri 1, 5761 (Sept. 30, 2000). The Oslo Accords were ratified in Israel 3 days after they were signed in the US. It was Tishri 1, 5754 (Sept. 13, 1993). If we add 7 good years, as when Joseph was in Egypt, they would end Tishri 1, 5761. Then the bad years would run until Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). Since the Palestinians have used violence against Israel ever since 5761 began, it does seem that 7 bad years started then. If so, the end of the bad years would be Sept. 13, 2007 (Tishri 1, 5768). I think that is the Day of God's Wrath and the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints.

From the Day of God's Wrath, there are 7 Jewish months for the Jews to bury the dead to cleanse the land for the Lord's return in glory (Eze. 39:12,13). This suggests Nisan 1 for the Second Advent in a Jewish Leap Year, for in ordinary years, there are only 6 months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year. Eze. 29:17,21 and Hos. 6:3 also suggest Nisan 1 (time of the latter rain) for the Second Advent.

If the Second Advent is Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008), we can count backward the 2300 days of Dan. 8:13,14. We find that this 2300 days of the shortened Tribulation would start this Dec. 19, 2001(Teveth 4, 5762). I'm hoping the Rapture will happen by or before that day. Likely times might be Tishri 1, 5762 (Sept. 18, 2001), which is the Feast of Trumpets or Cheshvan 17 (Nov. 3, 2001), the date when Noah went into the Ark, the Lord closed the door, and the rain (symbol of the Spirit of Christ) fell. Jesus indicated that the Rapture was as the days of Noah. Since I Thess. 4:16 mentions the "trump of God" in connection with the first Rapture, the Feast of Trumpets would fit very well. I think the "last trump," i.e., the Pre-Wrath Rapture, will be on the Feast of Trumpets in 2007, so it might be that the Lord planned for both Raptures to be on the Feast of Trumpets.

Because the Great Tribulation is shortened, there can be some part of the 7 bad years that will go by before the actual Tribulation begins with the confirming of a 7-year covenant. Dan. 9:27 says that the prince that shall come (the False Prophet) "shall confirm (gabar, strengthen) the covenant WITH MANY (probably the OWG or UN, the Pope and the Palestinian leader) for one week (of years, i.e., 7 years): and in the midst of the week he (the False Prophet) shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease."

The sacrifice and the oblation will cease after the first 1260 days of the Tribulation because he "sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God (II Thess. 2:4). At Mid Trib, he places an idol, "THE ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION," at the temple (Mt. 24:15) and kills Moses and Elijah (Rev. 11:7f).

I think the Pope that is in office when the Rapture takes place will be the Beast of Rev. 13:2-10. In v. 4, "they worshipped the beast" and said, "who is able to make war with him?" He seems to not only be head of the world church, but to be made head of world government too. V 7 says, "it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations."

Zech. 5:2-4 says, "This (the asteroid) is the curse that goeth forth (orbits) over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it. I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet), and into the house of him (the Tribulation Pope) that sweareth falsely by my name: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof." This is also pictured in Rev. 18:21. It says, "a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

> > I was taught that only Chapter 4 and Chapter 14 referred to a Rapture-like situation, but lately wondered if those in Chapter 7 all died as martyrs, as I'd been taught; or could they have come to the throne room by another Rapture.

In chapter 7, we see the 144,000 raptured along with a great multitude which no man can number. They go from Earth to stand before the throne in Heaven. It doesn't say they are killed, and I don't think they will be. In Rev. 14:4,5, they are virgins, firstfruits, and without fault before the throne of God, i.e., they are added to the Bride group. In Eze. 9:4 the men that sigh and cry for all the abominations are marked. Then the slayer follows and kills the rest. I think this is what will happen at the Pre-Wrath Rapture. The Tribulation saints will be raptured before the asteroid impacts Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5). One mountain-sized piece (Rev. 8:8) of the asteroid will fall into the Mediterranean at noon. The larger piece (Rev. 8:10) will destroy Babylon. Agape

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