Pro and Con 790

Posted 8-10-01

Needing prayer: Terry and Brandi Hagler. She has cancer.
Re viruses: Stay vigilant. Delete any attachments that come in. In spite of changing my setting so it would delete attachments from the server, I got 2 copies of the Sir Cam virus. Subject: QUOTE-109. 3 attachments. Same e-mail message as before with the word "advice".

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Fox News has just posted a report on their website from Stratfor which outlines the scenario that everyone is expecting. Prime Minister Sharon had stated after the Tel Aviv bombing in which 21 Israeli teenagers were killed that the next such attack would bring massive retaliation. Well, the day has arrived.

My reply

Thanks. Arafat does not want any peace agreement to work. He keeps up the violence to make sure that any peace agreement will fail. What he wants is to kill Jews, one at a time or several at a time will do. He thinks that by exerting constant pressure, the Arabs will win in the end over the Jews, even if it takes 200 years to do it. Trouble is, God rules, and the PA does not have 200 years left, much less Arafat himself.

Where is his home? Gaza? near the sea shore? Zeph. 2:1-7 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired; Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD's anger come upon you." Notice that there is no Rapture after the Day of the Lord's anger comes. Therefore, a Rapture cannot be at the 7th trumpet judgment, as some teach.

Continuing, "Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid (i.e., raptured) in the day of the LORD's anger. For GAZA (meaning strong, fortified) shall be forsaken, and ASHKELON (migration) a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod (a strong place) at the noon day, and Ekron (barrenness, torn away) shall be rooted up. WOE UNTO THE INHABITANTS OF THE SEA COAST, the nation of the Cherethites (from Crete)! the word of the LORD is against you; O Canaan (low region), THE LAND OF THE PHILISTINES (wanderers), I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant. And the sea coast shall be dwellings and cottages for shepherds, and folds for flocks. And the coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah (praise of the Lord); they shall feed thereupon: in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down in the evening: for the LORD their God shall visit them, and turn away their captivity."

Arafat is consumed with fighting battles against Israel when the war is already certain to be lost before long.
Fifteen Killed, 100 Wounded in Jerusalem Suicide Blast,2933,31684,00.html
8-9-01...lunchtime suicide bombing Thursday at a Sbarro pizza restaurant.
Erekat: Israeli gunships pound Gaza
U.S., British Warplanes Bomb Three Sites in Southern Iraq

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Re: what do you think of this as a resource?
You are probably the most learned bible scholar I know. What is your opinion of this from Barbara Richmond? Would it offer any new insights?
We are pleased and delighted to offer you the Hebraic Roots Version of the New Testament by John Trimm, which has just been released. It is the result of a ten year project to produce an accurate translation of the New Testament from the ancient Hebrew and Aramaic manuscripts still in existence. Unlike the rest of our NT translations, this one is not rooted in the Greek text but in the original languages in which the New Testament books were written. This is important because there are certain passages in the Greek NT that contradict clear commandments of the scriptures and we know that the Bible cannot contradict itself. This translation addresses these problems and provides us with the more accurate rendering of the original words. This is one of the most exciting new resources being made available to the body of Messiah today. To order your copy go to and click "Ministry Resources" "Bibles"

My reply

Thanks for the kudos. Personally, I would love to see this NT. I think I have learned something new every time I read a different translation. Something that was hazy before popped right out in a different translation. Because of his background, a Jew would probably understand some things that others might miss. The name Trimm rings a bell, but I think it is James Trimm. I think James is a Nazarene and friend of Dr. Tabor, who is translating for the Original Bible Project. I have sure enjoyed the bits and pieces of Dr. Tabor's translation that I have been lucky enough to see. As I understand it, the Nazarenes kept everything in Judaism, but added Yeshua as the Messiah. Dr. Tabor doesn't think there will be a Rapture. I don't know if all the Nazarenes think that way, though. Agape

His reply

Watch your mailbox for a surprise.

My reply

Thanks bunches.

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Re: dont all seek to be teachers
as in the days of noah so shall it be in the end.two men in bed,one taken one left behind.two women in the fields one taken,one left you know what this means?have you received revelation light concerning these scriptures?this rapture nonsense as explained by the man made denomenational churches has only been popular over the last 150 years.if we open our hearts and call unto the Lord[jer33;3]we can see with spiritual eyes concerning the above scriptures.people are very sincere when it comes to Gods word,and some can be sincerly wrong.God bless you in your endeavors for his truths

My reply

I didn't seek to be a teacher. What I sought was to understand Scripture, all the deep things, everything. I asked what the Lord wanted me to do. He worked it out his way with his timing. I could never have envisioned doing what I am doing today, but He knew. He trained me up in the way in which I should go, whether I understood it along the way or not.

As in the days of Noah, one taken, the other left (Mt. 24:37f; Luke 17:26f), describes the Pre-Trib Rapture. As in the days of Lot, one taken, the other left, describes the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints.

Luke 17:29-37 says, "the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (Sign of the Son of Man seen in the sky, Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14f). In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back. Remember Lot's wife. Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it. I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (Body of Christ) is (in Heaven), thither will the EAGLES (high flying Tribulation saints) be gathered together."

Isa. 40:31 says, "they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."

> > this rapture nonsense as explained by the man made denomenational churches has only been popular over the last 150 years.

You sound like you are parroting the words of a Preterist, and they'll tell you that Christ returned in 70 AD. :-) Those words are not in the Bible. Wouldn't it be better for you to quote Scripture? You can't go wrong that way. That statement is not true, but what if it was? Would that be reason to throw out our blessed hope? Dan. 12:4 says, "O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end." We are living in the end times. We are learning more and more of what Scripture means.

Titus 2:11-15 says, "For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, WE SHOULD LIVE soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; LOOKING FOR THAT BLESSED HOPE, AND THE GLORIOUS APPEARING OF THE GREAT GOD AND OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee."

If you are looking for the appearance of the Antichrist, you are not obeying that Scripture. We should live looking for our blessed hope, the Pre-Trib Rapture, and the glorious appearing of Christ, who is both God and Saviour.

II Thess. 2:3-8 (World English Bible) says, "Let no one deceive you in any way. For it (the Day of the Lord) will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE (RAPTURE) COMES FIRST, AND THE MAN OF SIN IS REVEALED (SECOND), the son of destruction, he who opposes and exalts himself against all that is called God or that is worshiped; so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself up as God. Don't you remember that, when I was still with you, I told you these things? Now you know what is restraining him (the Holy Spirit in the salt of the Earth), to the end that he may be revealed in his own season (The Tribulation). For the mystery of lawlessness already works. Only there is one (the Holy Spirit) who restrains now, until he is taken out of the way (at the Rapture). Then (tote, at the same time) the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will kill with the breath of his mouth, and bring to nothing by the brightness of his coming."

> > if we open our hearts and call unto the Lord[jer33;3]we can see with spiritual eyes concerning the above scriptures

Then put it to the test. I have. You are out in left field if you don't.

> > people are very sincere when it comes to Gods word,and some can be sincerly wrong.

That's very true. We are but human, and can't always be right, but we sure can keep studying God's Word as hard as we can go and praying for understanding all along the way. Put aside preconceived notions and read as if you just got a letter from the Lord. Let it say what it will. Don't wind it around what you already think. Scripture is the only real truth we have. Weigh what man says against Scripture. If it agrees, keep it. If it disagrees, throw it out. Acts 17:11 says that the Bereans, "searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." That is exactly what we should do.

Maybe you are thinking that the word Rapture is not in the Bible. Neither is Trinity for that matter. Why would we expect English words to be in the Bible anywhere? It was written in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek. Now what is the Greek word for our English word Rapture? It is harpazo, caught up. We can be sure. The Vulgate Latin translation said rapiemir, from raptos. Translate that into English and you have Rapture, caught up.

In Luke 21:36, Jesus said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Are you always praying this? If not, why not? These are Jesus' own words, and he is God in the flesh. II Cor. 5:19 says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself." If Christ tells us to pray always that we may be accounted worthy to escape, it behooves us to do it. Agape

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FWD: from Jack Parrish
Fascinating study - praise the Name of Jesus. Warmest regards.
Subject: Is the RAPTURE this year? posted by PHIL ROGERS
From: "Mark Copfer"
Subject: Rapture This Year (Must Read)
Phil Rogers posted this on my forum tonight.... Very very exciting post....

It is a historical fact that the city of Jerusalem began to rise from the rubble and dust of history to fill her role in end-time prophecy on December 9, 1917. It was on that date during the first World War that Jerusalem was freed from the hands of the Turkish forces, exactly as predicted in Isaiah 31:4-5 some 2,600 years previously. But rather than being turned over to the Jews, the League of Nations placed Jerusalem under the British Mandate, where it remained for another fifty years.

Fifty is the number associated with the "Jubilee." See Leviticus 25:1-55. In Leviticus 25:10 we read, "And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a Jubilee unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession. and ye shall return every man unto his family.' This verse specifically states that every man's possession was to be returned to him during the fiftieth year. Was it then just "coincidence" that in 1967, fifty years after God had freed Jerusalem from the Turks, Jerusalem was restored to her rightful owners, the Jews, during the Six Day War?

But God's Word also predicted in Zecharaiah 12:3, "And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut into pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it." Now let's add another twenty years to the fifty we have already noted. That will bring us to 1987. It was on December 8, 1987, seventy years to the day after Jerusalem was freed from the Turks, that the Palestinian uprising (Intifada) began in Israel. Coincidence? Not hardly! Twenty is the number associated with "redemption" throughout the Scriptures, and seventy is the number associated with "the restoration of Israel." On December 8, 1987, exactly seventy years to the day after freeing Jerusalem from the Turks, God began the process of restoring the Jewish nation to the position she formerly occupied under King David, redeeming the Jewish people unto Himself, and returning Jerusalem to her former glory as the capitol city of Israel and of the whole world.

The beginning of the Palestinian Intifada also marked the beginning of "the time of Jacob's trouble," Jeremiah 30:7. Contrary to "popular opinion," Jacob's trouble was twenty years in length, not three and one-half. Jacob himself clearly stated this in Genesis 31:38-42. Therefore 'Jacob's trouble" at the end of this age is also to be twenty years in length. By adding another twenty years to the seventy years we have already noted, we arrive at a total of ninety years and the year, 2007.

Ninety is the number associated with "freedom" throughout the Scriptures. The Lord Himself said, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed," John 8:2-36. At the end of the ninety years that began in 1917, those Jews who have survived the Tribulation will be redeemed unto the Lord and will therefore be made free. This will be the year, 2007. Proof?

In Psalm 106:47, corresponding with the year 2006, Israel is crying out to the Lord, "Save us, 0 Lord our God, and gather us from among the heathen (Gentiles), to give thanks unto Thy holy name, and to triumph in thy praise."

Then in Psalm 107:2-3, corresponding with 2007, ninety years after Jerusalem was freed from the Turks in 1917, Israel praises the Lord by saying, "Let the redeemed of the Lord say so, whom he hath redeemed from the hand of the enemy; And gathered them out of the lands, from the east, and from the west, from the north, and from the south". This is plain enough for anyone who really wants the truth. But let's make it even more vivid and encouraging for God's people.

In Galatians 4:21-31 the inspired Apostle wrote of two women and their offspring, using them to represent those under bondage to "law" and those made free by "grace." These women were Hagar, the bondmaid, whose son was Ishmael, and Sarah, the freewoman, whose son was Isaac. It is obvious from 4:25 that Hagar, the bondwoman, represents this present earthly Jerusalem which is still bound by blind dependence upon the "law." See 2 Corinthians 3:14-15. But Sarah, the freewoman, represents "Jerusalem which is above," which is free.

Sarah was a "Freewoman " because she had trusted in the "grace" of the Lord. In 4:30 the Scripture states, '...the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman" This clearly speaks of the time when Isaac inherited what his father Abraham had prepared for him. But it also spiritually speaks of a future time when those "saved by grace" shall inherit the things that God has prepared for them. See Romans 8:16-17.

It is quite clear in this context that Sarah represents Jerusalem and her children. When then is Jerusalem, still in bondage today to the "law" and to her enemies, to be made free? To answer that question Scripturally, we would ask another one. When did the "freewoman" give birth to the promised heir?

"Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is a hundred years old? And shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?" Genesis 17:17.

Is this clear enough? Sarah, representing Jerusalem, gave birth to her promised seed when she was ninety years old. God began the process of setting Jerusalem free in 1917. This process will be culminated in the year, 2007, exactly ninety years after it began.

Glory! Glory! Glory! Hallulejah! Praise the Lord! " Let everything that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord." Psalm 150:6.

It is obvious from what we have studied, that the total time period involved is ninety years, and it will come to a complete fulfillment sometime in 2007. That leaves just seven years to bring these events to completion. Isn't it then obvious that these next seven years will be the prophesied seven year Tribulation? Now go forward to 2007, to any date you choose during that year, and start counting backwards. Count 2520 days backwards (the length of the Tribulation), and your count will end in 2001.

The Lord is coming to rapture His people this year! The Tribulation will begin this year! Are you ready? Are your loved ones ready? Are your neighbors ready? Are your friends ready? Do you really care? Are you watching, praying, and witnessing like the Lord commanded His people to do? Think about it!

1917..Freed from the Turks during World War I = December 9,1917
50 years = 1967..Retumed to Jewish control during the Six Day War, June, 1967.
20 years = 1987..The Palestinian Intifada began on December, 1987.
20 years = 2007..The end of the Tribulation and the redemption and restoration of Jerusalem and the Jews.
90 years = 2007.. ".and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?" Genesis 17:17

She did! And Jerusalem, typified by Sarah, will!

My reply

Thanks. This is an interesting file. There is some good thinking here. I agree with most of it. I'll just add a few other things for your consideration.

God added up 6 blocks of years and saw to it that they were placed in Scripture.
(1) 400 from the casting out of Ishmael to the Exodus (Gen. 15:13; Acts 7:6,7)
(2) 430 from Abram's call to the Exodus (Ex. 12:40,41; Gal. 3:17,18)
(3) 450 from the division of Canaan to king Saul, the period of the judges (Acts 13:19,20)
(4) 480 Theocratic Years from the Exodus to the time construction began on the temple (excluding the servitudes when Israel was out of fellowship) (I Kings 6:1)
(5) 483 from the time the commandment was given to rebuild Jerusalem to just before the Crucifixion (Dan. 9:25,26)
(6) 490 Theocratic Years from the commandment to rebuild Jerusalem to the Second Advent (excluding the church era, when Israel is out of fellowship, in the gap between the 69th and 70th week of years) (Dan. 9:24).

Martin Luther tacked his 95 theses to the church door in Wittenberg, Germany in the Jewish Year of 5278 (1517 AD). The Ottoman Turks also took Jerusalem in 5278. Look what happens when we add the blocks of years in the 400s to 5278.

I call these the Modern Parallels
(1) 5278 plus 400 equals 5678 (1917/18) (a 7/8)
In 5678 (1917/18), the modern exodus began
(2) 5278 plus 430 equals 5708 (1947/48) (a 7/8)
In 5708 (1947/48), Israel declared her Independence
(3) 5278 plus 450 equals 5728 (1967/68) (a 7/8)
In 5728 (1967/68), the Six-Day War, Sign of the End of the Age, had already been won. Temple area was retaken June 10, 1967 (Iyar 28, 5727).
(4) 5278 plus 480 equals 5758 (1997/98) (a 7/8)
In 5758 (1997/98), 6000th year of man's test being mortal and knowing good and evil, living stones given "SPACE TO REPENT"? Wye Memorandum peace treaty signed 10-23-98 (when Saturn was closest and brightest in 20 years) to strengthen Oslo Accords signed 9-13-93
(5) 5278 plus 483 equals 5761 (2000/01)
In 5761 (2000/01), I hope the Pre-Trib Rapture will take place.
(6) 5278 plus 490 equals 5768 (2007/08) (a 7/8)
In 5768 (2007/08), Probable day of Pre-Wrath Rapture, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007) just barely preceding God's Wrath. I believe Christ will return 7 months later (Eze. 39:12,13) on the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year (Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3).

> > The beginning of the Palestinian Intifada also marked the beginning of "the time of Jacob's trouble," Jeremiah 30:7. Contrary to "popular opinion," Jacob's trouble was twenty years in length, not three and one-half. Jacob himself clearly stated this in Genesis 31:38-42. Therefore 'Jacob's trouble" at the end of this age is also to be twenty years in length. By adding another twenty years to the seventy years we have already noted, we arrive at a total of ninety years and the year, 2007

We arrive at 2007 without this. I think Jacob's trouble is one literal day. Jer. 30:4-9 says, "these are the words that the LORD spake concerning Israel and concerning Judah. For thus saith the LORD; We have heard a voice of trembling, of fear, and not of peace. Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? (Is that done every day for 20 years?) Alas! for THAT DAY (first day of the millennial Day of the Lord) is great, so that none is like it (it can't last for 20 years for no other day is like it): it is even THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE, but he shall be saved out of it. For it shall come to pass in THAT DAY (one day, not 20 years of days), saith the LORD of hosts, that I will break his yoke from off thy neck, and will burst thy bonds, and strangers shall no more serve themselves of him: But they shall serve the LORD their God, and David their king, whom I will raise up unto them."

I can't see any way that the time of Jacob's trouble can be anything but one single literal day. Dan. 12:1,2 says, "at that time (THAT DAY, first day of the millennial Day of the Lord) shall MICHAEL (THE ARCHANGEL) stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: and AT THAT TIME thy people (the 144,000 Israelites of Rev. 7:1f and 14:4,5) shall be delivered (malat, ESCAPE, i.e., in the Pre-Wrath Rapture), every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." This is the 2nd Rapture, the "LAST TRUMP" (I Cor. 15:51,52) the Pre-Wrath Rapture of Rev. 7:14.

Michael is associated with both the Pre-Trib and the Pre-Wrath Raptures. Concerning the first Rapture, II Thess. 4:16 says, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of THE ARCHANGEL (MICHAEL), and with the TRUMP OF GOD (THE FIRST TRUMP): and the dead in Christ shall rise first." Agape

Incoming email

Subject: spring?
a few quick questions if you don't mind. i think you have a point about spring but is it spring time in Israel or the U.S.? also what about other signs, like gov't, events, leaders? i think 3 people have key rolesin the events of the tribulation and the soon to come anti-christ. first of all the leader of Israel, secondly the president of the U.S. and lastly the Pope.not that these men will be the anti-christ but there positions(spiritual influence) for the rise of mr. evil. something that i have tried to watch was the health of the current Pope. i believe w/ the induction of the next one will bring the ac closely behind in some category of leadership (small gov't/ambassador). the union of europe has been a big milestone, the currency will soon follow. i wish i had more time and resources to see all that is going on, so much doesn't get reported by the secular media. thanx for your time, hope you have some further insight that may help. thanx again

My reply

I can tell you how my thoughts are running these days. Hope it helps.

> > i think you have a point about spring but is it spring time in Israel or the U.S.?

Spring at Jerusalem is spring in the US. Jerusalem is at 31 degrees N Latitude. San Diego, CA is at 32 N, so the seasons are about the same.

Spring does seem likely, but I try to keep an open mind and look for clues that might point to other times as well. I don't want to get bogged down in details and fail to see the big picture. Since Pentecost, 2001, is past, I have accepted that the 2300 days of Dan. 8:13,14 probably run from Dec. 19, 2001 to Apr. 6, 2008, when I think the Second Advent will take place.

Let's review some clues. Maybe you can see more in them than I do. Two heads are often better than one. Coming up soon, we have two possibilities, Tishri 1 (Sept. 18 in 2001), the Feast of Trumpets, and Cheshvan 17 (Nov. 3 in 2001), the date Noah went in the Ark and the Lord shut the door. Jesus mentioned that "as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be" in Mt. 24:37 right after he gave us the fig tree parable in Mt. 24:32-34.

He said, "When his branch (modern Israel) is yet tender (young, i.e., no more than 19), and putteth forth leaves (as in the Six-Day War when Israel was 19), ye know that summer is nigh (the Six-Day War started June 5; summer started June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that IT IS NEAR, EVEN AT THE DOORS" (symbol of the Raptures, Rev. 3:8; 4:1). Verily (Amen, so be it) I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Luke 21:29-31 gives us some more details. It says, "Behold the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7), and all the trees (other nations); When they now shoot forth (war), ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that THE KINGDOM OF GOD IS NIGH AT HAND."

Comparing these, we can see that the Kingdom of God was near, even at the doors (Raptures) in 1967. Within one generation (40 years, Mt. 23:36; i.e., 1967 - 2007), both Raptures are to come to pass. If we subtract the 7 years of the Tribulation from Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007), when I think the 2nd Rapture will be, we get Tishri 1, 5761 (Sept. 30, 2000). That date has passed, but we have to consider the Great Tribulation being shortened.

The 2300 days of Dan. 8:13,14 make up the shortened Tribulation. 2300 - 1260 (1st half, Rev. 11:3) = 1040 for the 2nd part, called the Great Tribulation, which would start June 6, 2005, and end at the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008).

If we subtract the 7 months between the 2nd Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath from Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008, Second Advent), we come right back to Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007), because 5768 is a Jewish Leap Year, what I thought before. So what has changed in my thinking? the beginning of the Tribulation (Dec. 19, 2001) and Mid-Trib (June 1, 2005).

This scenario would place the first Rapture between now and Dec. 19, 2001. It is no longer spring. I think the 2nd Rapture ("last trump," I Cor. 15:51,52) will be on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). Therefore, the 1st Rapture (first "trump of God," I Thess. 4:16) might be on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 18, 2001 (Tishri 1, 5762), or Nov. 3, 2001 (Cheshvan 17), when Noah went into the Ark and the Lord closed the door. Sept. 18 is still summer. It seems possible that spring or "summer" in the Fig Tree Parable could be the time of the Rapture.

> > what about other signs, like gov't, events, leaders? i think 3 people have key roles in the events of the tribulation and the soon to come anti-christ. first of all the leader of Israel, secondly the president of the U.S.and lastly the Pope

Here are my thoughts on this. There are to be signs in the Sun, Moon and Constellations (Luke 21:25). I have listed some on my Home Page. There are 2 main men that will rule during the Tribulation. The man that will end up being the Beast of Rev. 13:2-10 will be in office at the time of the Rapture. He is the king that "is" in Rev. 17:10. I think he will be the Tribulation Pope. The False Prophet of Rev. 13:11-18 is "the other" that "is not yet come" (Rev. 17:10) at the time of the Rapture. He will be revealed after we are gone by confirming, making stronger, a 7-year peace treaty (Dan. 9:27). I think both the Beast and False Prophet will confirm the treaty "with many for one week" of years (Dan. 9:27), probably the UN. The False Prophet will probably be an Israeli from the tribe of Dan.

I can see I Chron. 17:21 applying to the US. It says, "what one (echad, UNITED) NATION in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his own people, to make thee a name of greatness and terribleness, by driving out nations from before thy people whom thou hast redeemed out of Egypt?" This is also in II Sam. 7:23. It say, "what one (echad, united) nation (gowy, foreign or Gentile nation) in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?" I can't see a prophecy that points out the leader of the United States.

> > something that i have tried to watch was the health of the current Pope

So have I.

> > i believe w/ the induction of the next one will bring the ac closely behind in some category of leadership(small gov't/ ambassador).

I think the Tribulation Pope will be the Beast and a leader in Israel will be the False Prophet.

> > i wish i had more time and resources to see all that is going on, so much doesn't get reported by the secular media

Try checking Koenig International News on the Internet.

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