Pro and Con 792

Posted 8-14-01



EU And Japan To Fund Rebuilding In Palestinian Authority
The European Union and the Governments of Norway and Japan have expressed willingness to undertake the rebuilding of structures in the Arab villages of Rafiah and Khan Yunis that were destroyed by Israeli forces in retaliatory operations.
...Arafat has warned of an impending collapse of the PA. Israeli sources said Arafat told Italian leaders last week that he would be assassinated by Palestinians unless the United Nations sends international observers"

Incoming e-mail
8-10-01 - The Jewish community in Hebron has charged that the Temporary International Presence in Hebron peacekeepers have been collecting information for Palestinian terrorists. "They have crossed all red lines and need to be sent back to their countries immediately," a statement from the community to Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said. Senior IDF officers were quoted as saying the TIPH had been collecting sensitive information on the movements of the army and Jewish residents of Hebron and passing it on to Tanzim gunmen. They said that Palestinian terrorists hid behind TIPH vehicles for cover, knowing that the Israeli army would not return fire on them there.

Note: Ouch! No wonder Israel doesn't want UN observers/spies, and Arafat does.

Incoming email

Thanks for being so vigilant about viruses....

Set another email rule to delete attachments, (and leave the one to delete them off the server.) That way you get another chance to delete them, but they will be in your deleted box.

Incoming email

Re: study aids?
> > would you or any of your readers know of a good Hebrew - English interlinear or dictionary on the net? Thank you, K Lecorre

Marilyn, This is a online lexicon I use a lot Shalom

My reply

Thanks. Over on the left at that site, there is a link to an Interlinear too. Agape

Incoming email

From: CAPS
Re: Day of the lord as a "thief"
Marilyn, based on what you said in your first couple of paragraphs, it seems that you believe that the DAY of the Lord is LONGER than a thousand years. You seem to say that it begins 7 months before the day of the 2nd ADVENT. However, based on the 7 day account in Genesis this seems to be an exception to the "each day being a 1000 years." Your position remains confusing to me to understand. Please clarify. Remember in Revelation ch. 20 the millennium is said to be a 1000 years long. It says this 6 different times. This is said in chapter 20---- AFTER the 2nd ADVENT in chapter 19 ! A thousand years is NOT a thousand years and 6 months. It IS EXACTLY 1000 years.

My reply

Sorry I didn't make it clear enough. I'll be glad to clarify my position.

> A thousand years is NOT a thousand years and 6 months. It IS EXACTLY 1000 years.

I agree, and the Millennium does NOT include the shortened Tribulation. The shortened Tribulation is "the ends of the world" (aionos, ages, I Cor. 10:11). That period ends as the Millennium begins. After the Ends of the Ages expire on Elul 29, the millennial Day of the Lord begins with the Feast of Trumpets on Tishri 1, I think in 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007).

The Millennium can't come until after Elijah prophesys during the first 1260 days of the Tribulation. Mal. 4:5,6 says, "I will send you Elijah the prophet BEFORE the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse" (the asteroid, Zech. 5:3). The 100-year Day of the Lord begins the day the asteroid impacts Earth at noon (Zeph. 2,4,5).

These are my opinions. I believe that the millennial Day of the Lord lasts exactly 1000 years. It starts off with a bang! The first day (7 months before the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13) is like no other day--ever. Dan. 12:1 says of that day, "there shall be a time of trouble (tsarah, i.e., like Sarah's birth pains when she was 90 [1917 + 90 = 2007]), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time, and at that time (Tishri 1, 5768, Sept. 13, 2007) thy people (the 144,000 Israelites, Rev. 7:14; 16:4,5) shall be delivered (malat, bring forth young, ESCAPE, i.e., be raptured, born into a new world), every one (the great multitude of Rev. 7:9) that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake" (last rank of the First Resurrection, I Cor. 15:23;Rev. 20:4-6).

On the first day, Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007), in Heaven, Jesus Christ will receive his "golden crown" (Rev. 14:14) and his millennial kingdom (Dan. 7:14) on his birthday (Tishri 1, time of the former rain, Hos. 6:3). I think he will be crowned by his mother on his wedding day (Song of Sol. 3:11). The Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place (I Cor. 15:51,52). This is the last rank in the First Resurrection (I Cor. 15:23). From this day, the saints in Heaven "shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years" (Rev. 20:5,6). The Marriage of the Lamb follows the Pre-Wrath Rapture, then the Judgment Seat of Christ convenes. Heaven and Earth are silent while the judge is being seated (Rev. 8:1; Hab. 2:20). All the saints will be receiving their rewards for their belief in Heaven at the same time the unbelievers on Earth receive their just rewards for their unbelief (Rev. 11:18).

Like Solomon, son of David, the greater Son of David will purge his kingdom at its beginning. On Earth, after the asteroid blasts stop Gog's army and destroy Babylon, the Jewish remnant will bury the dead for 7 Jewish months in the leap year of 5768 (Eze. 39:12,13). Then Christ will come to the Earth in glory on the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year, Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008).

So I think the Kingdom of Christ starts on Tishri 1, the first month in the civil calendar. He purges Earth. The Jews bury the bodies to cleanse the land for his return. Then he comes to Earth on Nisan 1, the first month in the Regnal and Sacred Year--Regnal because he is King of kings, Sacred because he is our High Priest. The First Advent was on Tishri 1. The Second Advent will be on Nisan 1, 5768 (Eze. 29:17,21; Hos. 6:3).

Jesus went to the temple in 8 AD, when he was 12 years old, supposedly to prepare for his bar mitzveh when he was 13. I think he will again come to his temple in 2008 AD (8 + 2000 = 2008). All these things are my opinions and should be checked to see if they agree with Scripture. I will be glad to answer any further questions you might have.

God bless you as you study and watch. I know you really want to understand, the same as I do. Even if we do not understand it all, we surely deserve an A for effort. We are trying our level best. Agape

Incoming email

I had never seen this before. I thought it was neat that the very satellites that saw the first of its kind "light", first seen in 1967 (A VERY IMPORTANT YEAR) was unknowing named by secular researchers "Vela" which in Spanish means "to watch." They sure got an eye full with the first ever recorded Gamma Ray Burster (GRB).

Jesus told us to WATCH and lift up our heads and observe the signs in the sky that point to His soon coming. How Ironic! God Bless
A Brief History of the Discovery of Cosmic Gamma-Ray draft april 17, 1995- J.Bonnell
In October of 1963 the US Air Force launched the first in a series of satellites inspired by a recently signed nuclear test ban treaty. Signatories of this treaty agreed not to test nuclear devices in the atmosphere or in space. These "Vela" (from the Spanish verb velar, to watch) series satellites were part of an unclassified research and development program whose goal was to develop the technology to monitor nuclear tests from space and give the US a means of verifying the conditions of the treaty. The site address is:
A Brief History of the Discovery of Cosmic Gamma-Ray Bursts
by J.Bonnell 4-17-95
...The instruments were designed and built by teams of workers at the Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory (now LANL) and Sandia Laboratories of Albuquerque NM, who were specifically assembled and commissioned for the Vela mission.

The x-ray detectors were intended to directly sense the flash of x-rays from a nuclear blast. Although most of the energy of a bomb blast in space would be directly visible as an x-ray flash, a simultaneous indication by the gamma-ray detectors would provide a confirming signature of a nuclear event. A further confirmation would come from the detection of neutrons. The Vela designers were also aware that detonating a nuclear bomb behind a thick shield or on the far side of the moon would effectively hide the initial flash of x-rays from the satellites' view. Hence the gamma-ray detectors could also look for hard gamma-radiation resulting from the cloud of radioactive material blown out after the nuclear blast. This blast cloud could not be totally shielded from view and would expand rapidly. It would easily be detected in gamma-rays even if the detonation took place behind the moon, out of direct view of the satellites' x-ray detectors.

The Vela satellites generally performed well and greatly exceeded their expected operational lifetimes. The satellites' capabilities were steadily improved with each launch. In particular, Vela 5 a and b (launched in 1969) and Vela 6 a and b had sufficient timing accuracy that they could reasonably determine directions to the triggered events....

In 1965, with the construction and launch of the Vela 3 satellites, Ray Klebesadel of Los Alamos Scientific Laboratory assumed the continuing programatic responsibility for the x-ray and gamma-ray instruments. He saw to it that events which triggered the detectors but were clearly not signatures of nuclear detonations were carefully filed away for future study. In 1972, Ian Strong, also at Los Alamos, was asked to look at Ray Klebesadel's files of Vela gamma-ray events. With the timing accuracy of the later Vela satellites Klebesadel and Strong, along with another Los Alamos colleague, Roy Olsen, were able to deduce the directions to the events with sufficient accuracy to rule out the sun and earth as sources. They concluded that the gamma-ray events were "of cosmic origin". In 1973, this discovery was announced in Ap.J. letters by Klebesadel, Strong, and Olsen. Their paper discusses 16 cosmic gamma-ray bursts observed by Vela 5a,b and Vela 6a,b between July 1969, and July 1972.

Using a hard x-ray detector on board IMP-6 intended to study solar flares, Tom Cline and Upendra Desai of NASA/GSFC were the first to confirm this finding and provide some spectral information that showed that the burst spectra peaked at gamma-ray energies. Thus the events were not simply the high energy tail of an x-ray phenomenon. A collimated gamma-ray telescope on board OSO-7 (Wheaton et al. 1973) was also able to confirm a direction to one of the events, supporting the original conclusions of cosmic origin....

(on the First Observed Gamma-Ray Burst ...)
In 1969, while looking back over Vela 4 data just prior to the launch of Vela 5, Klebesadel and Olsen found an event recorded by Vela 4a,b on July 2, 1967 which also triggered the still operational Vela 3 satellites. The event appeared to be a cosmic gamma-ray burst but at the time the constellation of satellites did not have sufficient timing resolution at the trigger to make a good determination of direction to the burst source. In retrospect, this event had a time history similar in appearance to the later recognized cosmic bursts. Klebesadel believes that this event represents the "first observed gamma-ray burst". The Vela 4 a and b data was used to construct a time history of this event which was published in Scientific American, Oct. 1976. No earlier observation of a similar event is known. (emphasis mine)

My reply

Thanks. That's interesting. The Constellation Vela is the Sails of the ship Argo (company of travelers, i.e., those that are in Christ will be raptured). That is where the new star Nova Velorum appeared on May 22, 1999 (Sivan 7, 5759, Pentecost). The largest Anchor Cross/Double Anchor (symbol of hope in the Eastern Orthodox Church) that is pictured on my Home Page is in Vela too. Vela's sails are reefed. The ship is backing into harbor. We are almost home.

> > I thought it was neat that the very satellites that saw the first of its kind "light", first seen in 1967 (A VERY IMPORTANT YEAR) was unknowing named by secular researchers "Vela" which in Spanish means "to watch."

1967 was the year of the Six-Day War, the Sign of the End of the Age, the beginning of the 40-year final countdown to the end of the age. Now you add some more information that ties in beautifully. Vela, meaning "to watch," was watching, just as we were to watch. God doesn't miss a trick, does he. Agape

Incoming email

FWD from: David Parker. Re: 2 DAYS OF HOSEA CHAPTER 6 Original Message From:

Hi Dave, are you telling me that the tribulation hour will start after the year 2030? It could but it sure seems to me that things are heating up and something will occure before that time period. Can you explain to me real quick? Thanks Jeff
To: jeffglawe. From:
Jeff, what I was trying to convey was this:
1) The time prophecy of Hosea chapter 6 involves 2 "days".

2) The context to the prophecy, looking especially at the immediate context of Hosea 5 , the last few verses, shows that the prophecy of these 2 days STARTED AT THE CRUCIFIXION OF JESUS.

3) Some believe that these 2 days are measured in 365.25 year days. Since the 2 days conclude with the Final Restoration of the nation of Israel ("we shall live in His sight"), and IF THEY are measured in 365.25 days/year then ,YES, the ending to the 2 days would be around 2030 A.D. depending on the date of the crucifixion (dates for that range from 30 to 33 A.D.)

4) HOWEVER, it is my opinion that the 2 days of Hosea 6 are to be measured by prophetic years of 360 days/year. That equates to 1971.25 of our calendar years by way of converting the days.

5) If I am correct in # 4 above , then the terminus, the ending of the 2 days, would be as follows if the crucifixion was in 33 A.D.:

6) 33.25 +1971.25 ='S 2004.5 A.D. for the ending of the 2 days of Hosea 6

7) One thing I know for sure is that there is no way those 2 days of Hosea 6 can be measured from the birth of Jesus. The context clearly, beyond doubt, indicates that they were to start at the "smiting" of Jesus and by law of double reference the nation of Israel. Remember in chapter 5 Jesus says "I ,even I, will TEAR and go away..." See my prior posts on Hosea ch. 6. Blessings

My reply

I take Hos. 5:14 - 6-3 differently. The LORD (Christ) says, "I will be unto Ephraim as a lion, and as a YOUNG LION to the house of Judah (as the young lion seen when the Moon was eclipsed over Jerusalem 1-9-01): I, even I, WILL TEAR(taraph, PLUCK OFF) and go away (yalak, VANISH); I will TAKE AWAY (nasa, LIFT UP, i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture), and none shall rescue him. I WILL GO AND RETURN TO MY PLACE (Heaven), till they (Jews) acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction (Day of Jacob's trouble) they will seek me early." All Israel will be saved in that 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Isa. 66:8 says, "shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children."

In Hos. 6:1-3, Israel says, "Come, and let us return unto the LORD: for he hath torn (in the past), and he will (in the future) heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days (after 2000 years from BC 454, when Jerusalem fell to Babylon; 2000 - BC 454 + 1, no zero year, = 1547 AD; the third millennium would run from 1547 AD to 2547 AD) will he revive us: in the third day (millennium) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight." (fulfilled in 1948, in the 3rd millennium after going into captivity in Babylon.) "Then (i.e., after 1948) shall we KNOW, if we follow on (to 1967+) to know THE LORD: HIS GOING FORTH is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, AS THE LATTER (Second Advent, Nisan 1, 1st day of the Jewish Regnal Year) AND FORMER RAIN (First Advent, Tishri 1, 1st day of the Jewish Civil Year) unto the earth."

De. 11:13,14 says, "it shall come to pass, if ye shall hearken diligently unto my commandments which I command you this day, to love the LORD your God, and to serve him with all your heart and with all your soul, That I will give you the rain of your land in HIS (the LORD's) DUE SEASON, THE FIRST RAIN AND THE LATTER RAIN."

Joel 2:23 says, "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you THE RAIN, THE FORMER RAIN, AND THE LATTER RAIN IN THE FIRST MONTH" (i.e., new moon, the 1st day of the month). I believe the 1st Coming was on Tishri 1, first day of the Civil Calendar) and that the 2nd Coming will be on Nisan 1, first day of the Regnal and Sacred Calendars.

Job 37:6 says, "Be thou on the earth; likewise to the SMALL RAIN (former rain of Tishri 1), and to the GREAT RAIN OF HIS STRENGTH" (Nisan 1, Second Coming).

Eze. 29:17,21 gives us the month and day of the month. It says, "in the FIRST MONTH (chodesh, new moon, i.e., Tishri 1 of the Civil Year and Nisan 1 of the Regnal and Sacred Year), in the FIRST DAY OF THE MONTH, the word of the LORD came unto me...IN THAT DAY (Tishri 1 and Nisan 1) WILL I CAUSE THE HORN (king) OF THE HOUSE OF ISRAEL (Jesus Christ) TO BUD FORTH (he has 2 comings), and I will give thee the opening of the mouth (the Word, the Logos) in the midst of them; and they shall know that I am the LORD. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Shepherds Chapel
I happened across your website. I hope you are still there, as I have some information for you on Arnold Murray. You said that he believed the "right things about Jesus"....but he DOES NOT!

He denies the Trinity, the Resurrection, and that Jesus is the only way to salvation! Murray is not a Christian! Here are some sites which may help you.

God bless you with his strength and wisdom for what is ahead.

My reply

At one of the URLs you listed, it said,
> > Regarding the resurrection of Jesus, Arnold Murray denies His physical resurrection. Instead, Jesus was raised spiritually, not physically. This teaching alone makes this group a non-Christian cult because it denies one on the essential doctrines of Christianity....
> > Since it appears to deny the physical resurrection of Christ, it would seem to be non-Christian.

Rom. 10:9 says, "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." I believe that Jesus was raised from the dead bodily.

I don't want to judge Murray. Christ is the judge. But Murray seems to have made some people that have contacted me unteachable. They won't consider what I say or what Scripture says, but just keep parroting the same wrong things over and over that they have learned from him. Becky thinks that the Rapture will be at the 7th trumpet. I tried to show her that believers would already be in Heaven before any of the 7 trumpet judgments hit Earth, but she wasn't listening. To me, it is easy to see. Rev. 11:18 shows that all the saints, small and great, are getting their rewards in Heaven at the same time the unbelievers on Earth get the 7 trumpet judgments. Nothing I said made any difference in her thinking, though. Agape

Her reply

Re: Shepherds Chapel
Oh, Ms. Agee, I know what you are saying! These people's minds have become completely closed to the truth! Whenever they stumble onto the truth, they push it away! It is horrifying!

We don't judge a man's heart, only God does that, but God most certainly tells us to judge the fruit of a false teacher! If the fruit is rotten and is from satan, then we must call it as such!

Ms Agee, Jesus said that there are some who have committed the 'unpardonable sin'...which is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. He said this after the religious leaders had attributed his healing of a man, to satan. So, is not blasphemy against the Holy Spirit attributing spiritual gifts to satan? Or saying that a satanic message is from the Holy Spirit? Arnold Murray has certainly done this. Over and over! These followers like Becky have also done this. But, some have not! Some only listen to Murray on occasion, and accept only some of his heresies. They continue to go to Christian churches, (which is scary, as I have heard some of them say that they teach sunday school, and have passed on Murray's disgusting "serpent seed doctrine"---to children!)

It is to these that I speak out. And to those that are just dipping their toes into Murray's pool of heresy. They must know what they are getting into!

God bless you as you "snatch some from the fire"! I pray that he encourages you, and fortifies you with all the ammunition you need to fight the battle that he give you to fight. Remember, the war is already won! Satan is going to the pit! Praise God that you get to be a part of these exciting times! I know I do. Your sister in Christ

My reply

Bob Thieme, Jr. said that the unpardonable sin couldn't be committed when Jesus is not on Earth. Agape

Incoming email

RE: Next pope could be a Jew
Dear Sister--I emailed you this article that I fould on Aug. 6. I also emailed it to myself to make sure it went through. When I checked it, I found the length of the article sent it to a "download" file, which you do not open. I tried to find it again today on, but it did not come up, and they do not give an archive. I would very much like for you to see this article, but I don't know how to get you the URL. I am sending it again with this note. If you are still afraid to open this down load, maybe you have the smarts to find it on Yours in Him

My reply

Thanks for telling me that there is such a thing as a "Download File" that looks like an Attachment. Is info about it listed somewhere? I have been wondering why some e-mails print out in the e-mail document and still say there is an attachment. This one you sent came through even though I had enabled attachments to be deleted from the sender. It seems that the whole file can be read in the e-mail document without opening the "attachment" though. The archive link is at the bottom of the page. I read this file when you sent it before and put a piece of it on a Pro and Con. I can't remember if I had the URL for it or not. I post the URLs when I can so people can read the whole article. If I remember right, I got more than one copy of this article. People are so nice to send me things I should see. I sure do appreciate it and don't mind if I get duplicates.

I don't know how you sent this file, but they can be Copy and Pasted into the e-mail document, or when in Internet Explorer, the whole page can be mailed. There is an icon above the file that will allow that.

From time to time, someone has suggested Jean-Marie Lustiger for the possible next Pope. Maybe. Agape

Incoming email

Re: 10 day promise
Seems we are watching keenly for this 10 day promise in Rev 2:10. Since it mentions death, it seems hard to find an example of that today. But, the people arrested in Afghanistan recencently may be a type of this. Here is one of the many links on the story.

Or would this actually be it? I was alerted to the fact that there were "24" mentioned. 24 workers. I immediately wondered about that. They were taken hostage on 5-Aug-2001. 10 days would be 15-Aug-2001....And summer is nigh....

The above verse mentions "some" of you... That is some of the church of Smyrna. (There must be more than 24 Christians in Afghanistan even today.) Apparently, not all of these 24 workers are actually subject to the Talliban death sentence. Locals who converted from Islam to Christianity would be.

Also look at Rev 2:9 again. Any believer in Afghanistan today is certainly under "tribulation" and living in poverty. And what about the word Jew? What about a hidden meaning? The Jew, meaning the standard bearer of God's truth. The channel or vehicel through which all men would be blessed etc. The Talliban believe they are the truth, rather Islam is the truth. All should convert to Islam. "...I know the blasphemy of them which say they are "Jews", and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." The Talliban sure sound like the synagogue of Satan to most people on the planet. Their record is terrible. Only 3 countries have ever recognized them formally.
Taliban strict on Christian arrests
8-7-01 - KABUL, Afghanistan -- Afghanistan's Taliban rulers have not been swayed by international moves to seek the release of 24 aid agency workers who face the death penalty for promoting Christianity. ...

Promoting Christianity is punishable by death under the strict interpretation of Islamic Sharia law imposed by the Taliban. ...

Pakistan, one of only three countries to recognise the hardline regime as Afghanistan's government, appears to have some influence with the Taliban, although the movement ignored appeals from Islamabad and other countries not to destroy ancient Buddha statues this year....

The Taliban say they have also sent 59 children who were being taught by the arrested workers to a correctional facility, where they would remain until all traces of Christianity were removed.

The official Taliban news sources have said authorities had recovered bibles, and that the arrests were made while the foreign workers were showing an Afghan family material about Christianity on a computer.

My reply

Rev. 2:9,10 says, "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

I don't see a connection in this news article with those that say they are Jews and are not, but that doesn't mean it isn't there. This case could fit Rev. 2:10, and it is being told around the world. Whether those spoken of in verse 10 live or die, the 10 days of trial would apply. It could end in death, or the Rapture. I hope it won't be death, but if it is, God will give them what R.B. Theime, Jr. calls dying grace. The Lord gives Christians extra help to get them through the death experience. Only the body can die. The soul and spirit will never die.

Thanks for letting me know. I'll keep watching. Agape

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Updated 8-14-01