Pro and Con 8
Incoming e-mail I came across your book by accident at a bookstop book store in the religious section; I've been studying Bible prophecy since I was 12 (32 now), but I've never heard of you until about 30 days ago when I read your avon book the End of the Age. Alot of it was new to me. I wasnt going to buy it, I had already read a book a few years back concerning the feast dates, but I really believe the Lord wanted me to buy it so I did.
Anyway, my question is about the verse in Ezekiel 39:9 referring to the seven years that Israel will be burning the weopons or fuel. I always blieved that the war with Gog would happen before or at the beginning of the Trib. and that this war and coalition was totally different than the one in Daniel chapter 11. Also, I believed, until your book, that the rapture would be in the middle of the tribulation at the seventh trumpet when also is the placement in revelation of the two witnesses resurrection. Anyway, you have done a good job in swaying me.
My reply Nice to hear from you. Since you have my email address, I assume that you have also visited my Web Page. I keep learning new things and try to pass them on via the Internet.
Ezek 39:9's "they shall burn them (the weapons) with fire seven years" applies to the first seven years of the Millennium.
The attack of Gog and Magog on Israel takes place on the 2,300th day (Dan. 8:14) of the Tribulation. Of that day, in Ezek. 38:18f, the Lord said, "at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that my fury shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of my wrath (Day of God's Wrath) have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and...all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (translated "sight" in Eze. 36:31), and the mountains shall be thrown down (one piece of a binary asteroid will hit the Mediterranean Sea [Rev. 8:8]; the other will destroy Babylon [Rev. 8:10; 18:21)....Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES (Sign of the Son of Man; Matt. 24:30) of many nations, and they shall know (Israel is born in that day, Isa. 66:8) that I am the LORD."
Daniel 11:31 is the middle of the Tribulation, when the abomination of desolation is placed in the temple. This is when the False Prophet begins his reign. The last verse of Daniel 11 is when he is deposed from office, when "he shall come to his end, and none shall help him." Daniel 12 begins with Rapture II, "at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book." This is day 2,300, the same day as the attack on Israel by Gog and Magog.
Day 2,300 is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. It is a day like no other--ever. See page 200 in my book for the Order of Events in Heaven on that Feast of Trumpets. As soon as Christ is crowned in Heaven, the Marriage of the Lamb will take place, the last trumpet call for the saints calls the Tribulation saints to the Marriage Supper of the Lamb, then the Judgment Seat of Christ is convened. Both Heaven and Earth are silent while the judge is seated. Then he gives rewards to his saints and also gives the just rewards to the unbelievers on Earth.
Rev. 11:18,19 says, "And the nations (united nation's army attacks Israel) were angry, and thy wrath (Day of God's Wrath) is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged (Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth....and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
All this and more happens on one day, The Feast of Trumpets when the seven trumpet judgments hit Earth.
Incoming e-mail Thank you for writing. Sorry to say that I haven't refined my ideas on the rapture(s) quite as much as yourself. I did have a pastor one time who believed in six raptures, couldn't prove it by me though. Mine is a collection of thoughts that I have yet to categorize, more of a historicist view of "most" of Revelations. I believe the church will go through the tribulation but not experience the wrath of God due to His divine protection (I Thess. 5:9). I see no real purpose in more than one rapture even though many have been raptured already (Matt. 27:52,53), however, I do look for the rapture of Matthew 24:30,31 at some future time. Since at least one rapture has already taken place, this could account for the saints already in heaven. There are some problems with Matt. 24 as it is not clear [to me] whether Jesus is speaking to the Jew, to the Church, or both.
Because it is not yet clear to me whether Revelations is "historicist" or futurist," I work on the idea that it is a combination of the two. I don't rely on the book of Revelations for my information as much as I do other books in the New Testament such as Matt. 24, Luke 21, I Thess. 5., II Thess. 2, II Tim. 3, & II Pet. 3. I don't use the Old Testament at all in attempting to figure out future happenings, although I see nothing wrong with doing so - I consider myself an entirely New Testament Christian.
In my opinion, it is unwise to tag the rapture with the Feast of Trumpets or with Pentecost, as no man knows the day nor the hour (Matt. 24:36). It is my understanding that a combination of things tell us when the rapture shall be, rather than particular days or events, (Matt. 24:33).
My reply Thank you for your reply. You mentioned Matt. 24:30,31. Those are gathered "from one end of heaven to the other." They had gotten to heaven previously. Look at Mark 13:27: "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." I believe that those gathered from "the earth" are the Tribulation saints and those gathered from "heaven" are the Church saints who were gathered previously, before the Tribulation, and the Old Testament saints.
The Old Testament saints that were taken to Heaven had died. These two Raptures include the living.
I believe the first Rapture is of the wise virgins, the second of the foolish virgins who were not filled with the oil of the Holy Spirit the first time. One goes at the first trump, the other at the "last trump" (I Cor. 15:52).
Esther probably represents the Bride of Christ, and in Esther 2:19, "the virgins were gathered together the second time."
"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (II Tim. 3:16). "Now all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (ages) are come" (I Cor. 10:11).
There is a good tie in for Pentecost. On that day in 30 AD, the Holy Spirit came to the church and they were FILLED with the Holy Spirit. At the Rapture, Christ will come to pick up the church that is FILLED with the Holy Spirit. We must be ready.
There is more information about Pentecost and why we can know at . We should look into these things for Jesus said, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee" (Rev. 3:3). What will be know if we do watch? what hour he will come upon us.
You mentioned Matt. 24:33. It says, "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things (Israel back in the land and growing leaves, as she did in the Six-Day War), know that it (the Rapture) is near, even at the doors (symbol of the Raptures, Rev. 3:8, 4:1)."
I believe that The Revelation of Jesus Christ is written as if the Rapture is at hand. It is "at hand" in the first chapter (1:3) and it is still "at hand" in the last chapter (22:10). The "Spirit and the bride say, Come" and Jesus signs off with "Surely I come quickly." He tells the churches, "I will come unto thee quickly" (2:5). He comes quickly at the Rapture, not the Second Advent when every eye will see him.
Rev. 1:19 says, "Write the things which thou hast seen (before the Rapture), and the things which are (the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter (after the Rapture, as in 4:1)." In 1:8, Jesus says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is (at the Rapture), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), the Almighty."
Incoming e-mail, Re: web site I just stumbled upon your website today. My faith has been cleverly shaken by that rotten, lying devil lately....
It's amazing what happens to us when we behave as though the rapture is near as opposed to just thinking it is near! It's also amazing how easy we can get off the path, and how God uses the funniest things to gently nudge us back! Thank You. I needed the uplift.
Your site is terrific. I will come back to it often to read more. Will look for your book on where Heaven is located. Sounds interesting!
God Bless you. Your work has blessed me.
My reply Thank you for you for those kind words. "Your site is terrific" makes my day....
Incoming e-mail According to Finis Jennings Dake there is to be more than one rapture. Those that are ready when the first one takes place before the tribulation and before the anti christ is revealed. The second is the 144,000 saved after the rapture and then the tribualtion saints, those marytered for the gospel's sake.
Some believe in a pre-trib rapture, mid-trib and post-trib, I personally hope the first is right but the fact that some many believe in different times could very well point to there being more than one.
Who is to stop the Lord from rapturing people out all through the tribulation? You made some good points which I will study more thoroughly.
My reply Thanks so much for this information.
As for "Who is to stop the Lord from rapturing people out all through the tribulation?" No one. He is the Almighty and can do whatever he pleases. However, he made a plan before time began and is working his plan. He said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things" (Mark 13:23). If all the clues are already in Scripture, that is the way it will come to pass.
We just need to study Scripture and pray for the Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth.
Another clue to two Raptures is in the book of Esther. Esther 2:19 says, "the virgins were gathered together the second time."
Incoming e-mail, Re: Rapture I have never given much tohough to the verse that said there would be tribulation ten days. So you are saying ten years and not seven? Do you believe the seventieth week of Daniel's prophecy occured in AD 70?
My reply No. I don't think the seventieth week of Daniel has yet taken place. I don't know how anyone can think that it took place in 70 A.D., but I get email from them. If they are right, then history forgot to record the mountain falling into the sea, the star falling, the "great city" being divided into three parts, the cities of the nations falling, Babylon being destroyed in one hour, etc.
There are ten years of tribulation for the Laodiceans and any others who are not overcomers among the church groups, all those that are left behind at Rapture I. The last seven of this ten for the remnant of the church are the Tribulation for the whole world.
The "hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth" (Rev. 3:10) is the seven-year Tribulation (Dan. 9:27). The first half is the 1260 days of Rev. 11:3. The last half is the 1260 days of Rev. 12:6,14. The last half is also called the Great Tribulation (Rev. 7:14).
I believe that the Great Tribulation will be shortened to 1040 days. The Rapture of the Tribulation saints and then the Wrath of God will take place on the 1040th day of the Great Tribulation, which is the 2300th day (Dan. 8:14) of the 7-year Tribulation.
The three years between Rapture I and the beginning of the 7-year Tribulation are counted as four years by Jewish inclusive reckoning. They are shown in the Parable of the Barren Fig Tree of Luke 13:6-9. Jesus will keep checking on Israel during those years, which I think are 1998, 1999, 2000 and 2001, Pentecost, 1998, to Pentecost/Feast of Weeks, 2001, when the Seventieth Week of Daniel begins.
The four Jewish years are like a grace period. If Israel would turn to the Lord then, the Tribulation would not have to take place. The Lord said, "And if ye will not for all this hearken unto me, but walk contrary unto me; Then I will walk contrary unto you also in fury; and I, even I, will chastise you seven times for your sins" (Lev. 26:27,28). Those seven times are the seven years of the Tribulation.
Incoming e-mail, Re: Rapture The book At The Last Trump is a post-trib book. This is causing me to loose a lot of friends in Baptist circles. My thesis is thst the rapture and the second coming are the same event. I was unable to base any of my writing on that of anyone else because I have never met a post-trib teacher or read a post-trib book. All of my seminary teachers were pre and all the books in the library were pre. I could not even find a post-trib book at the local bookstore. I have since found a few on the internet but they are like mine, self-published with little circulation.
As for when that will occur I do not know. I do beleive the tribulation will occur in the next 20 years. Whether it does or not I beleive we will see our faith outlawed in this country within the next 10-15. Either way we are in for a terrible time.
I would be interested in how you came up with the date 2007.
My reply Here is what I believe in a nutshell. The FIRST of the firstfruits will be taken to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture. Then there is a gap between the Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation, which will begin when the Beast and False Prophet confirm, or sign, a 7-year peace treaty. From that day the 7-year Tribulation clock starts ticking. In the middle of it, the False Prophet sits in the temple showing that he is God. On the 2,300th day, the shortened Tribulation ends and the Millennium begins. That first 24-hour day of the millennial Day of the Lord is the most momentous day ever. Scripture says that there will be no other day like it ever.
On that day, Jesus' birthday, Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, first Christ is crowned with a golden crown in Heaven, given glory, a Kingdom, dominion over Earth, and his appointment as Judge is confirmed. He gets lots of presents on this birthday.
Next, the Bride of Christ, the FIRST of the firstfruits, will be made Joint-heirs with Christ at the Marriage of the Lamb in Heaven.
After this, the last trump sounds to call the Tribulation saints to attend the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. This is Rapture II, the Pre-Wrath Rapture.
Next, the Judge is installed, the judgment set, the books opened. This is the Judgment Seat of Christ. Christ opens the seventh seal on the Book of the Purchase of Earth. There is one half hour of silence in Heaven and on Earth. Earth fears and is still. Scripture mentions to let the people renew their strength, come near, speak, so, the Bride probably gives testimony that Christ should save Israel. (They are being attacked by a huge multi-nation army that day.) Incense is offered with prayers of all saints, so prayers through the ages are taken into consideration also.
Sentence is passed, and rewards are handed out. The saints receive rewards for their faith and service. The unbelievers on Earth receive their just reward for their unbelief at the same time. A symbolic globe shaped golden censer filled with fire is cast to Earth. The reality is that the flaming sword of Gen. 3:24 impacts Earth. It is Satan's home. The binary asteroid splits. One piece as big as a mountain hits the Mediterranean Sea. Another larger piece destroys both Egypt and Babylon. It must come in at an oblique angle. Fire will even burn in Russia. Egypt cannot be dwelt in for 40 years, Babylon never. All of the Seven Trumpet Judgments and the Seven vials of the Wrath of God are poured out.
Then, after the saints receive their rewards in Heaven, the Marriage Supper of the Lamb will take place. The Bride is the Church saints. The Friends of the Bride are the Tribulation saints. The Friends of the Bridegroom are the Old Testament saints.
On Earth, this is the day of Rapture II, the Day of God's Wrath, the day of darkness and desperation, the day Israel is saved from her enemies when she blows the alarm on the trumpet.
It also is the day the Earth is turned upside down.
It is NOT the day of the Second Advent, which is still 7 months away. It is the day of darkness and the day of the Second Advent is not a dark day.
This is the day of the worldwide earthquake, the day the seas wash the united nation's army out of Israel's hair, the day coals of fire fall on Jerusalem.
After this, while the Earth regains her equilibrium, Israel spends 7 months burying the dead.
On the following Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year, the first day of their Sacred Year, Christ will return in glory as King of kings and Lord of lords on the same month and day that all the other Israelite kings officially took office.
On the last day of the 7-years, it looks like dominion will be taken from Satan and Armageddon begin. It lasts 40 days and 40 nights, then the millennial peace starts when Satan is chained.
Now the strange thing is that Christ's return is on the anniversary of the Crucifixion on our calendar, and millennial peace starts on the anniversary of Rapture I on our calendar. The Lord is some mathematician. His power to control things is awesome.
More about the two Raptures. Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
There is a parallel passage in Mark 13:27 that gives one more tidbit of information. It says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."
Those gathered from Heaven were taken there in Rapture 1. Those gathered from Earth are just now (when they see the Sign of the Son of Man) going to Heaven in Rapture 2. All members of the Body of Christ are present in this gathering, whether they were in Heaven or on Earth.
When the Rapture is "at hand" (Rev. 1:3; 22:10), there are two main groups of Christians. One, the Philadelphians, have an "open door" set before them (Rev. 3:8). The Laodiceans have a closed door before them (Rev. 3:20).
When the time is at hand, the Philadelphians win the prize (I Cor. 9:24f) of the "high calling" (Phil. 3:14). The Laodiceans are castaways (I Cor. 9:27), spewed out of his mouth (Rev. 3:16). They are the ones he will "chasten" (Rev. 3:19) during the Tribulation. The Philadelphians are the wise virgins, the Laodiceans, the foolish ones who lack enough oil (Holy Spirit). To be chosen as the Bride of Christ and go in the first group, we must confess all our sins and therefore stand before him clad in the white wedding garment. We must be ready.
> I would be interested in how you came up with the date 2007.
When Israel first became a nation when they came out of Egypt, the males 20 and up were counted. The 19 year olds were the young.
This fits the fig tree parable of Mt. 24:31-34: "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch (modern Israel) is yet tender (apalos, young, i.e., 19 and no older), and putteth forth leaves (grows, as Israel did in the Six-Day War when she was 19 years old; leaves = Gaza, Sinai, Golan Heights and West Bank incl. temple area), ye know that summer is nigh (that war was June 5 and summer began June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things (Israel in the land, 19 years old, growing, and near summer), know that it (the Rapture) is near, even at the doors (plural, symbol of the Raptures, as in Rev. 3:8 and 4:1), Verily I say unto you, This generation (40 years) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."
1948 + 19 = 1967 + 40 = 2007
As for when the first Rapture might take place. When Israel came out of Egypt, it was 50 years to the Jubilee year, kept in the land right after the wars were over and every man was back with his family. At that time debts were cancelled and the land reverted to its owners. This fits the Rapture rather well.
1948 + 50 = 1998
Thus these two years, 1998 and 2007, form the frameword of the time from Rapture I to Rapture II. This is ten years on the Jewish calendar, 5758 to 5768, (first day of) which is Sept. 13, 2007, the Feast of Trumpets, the first day of the Millennium.
Rev. 2:10 explains the ten years. It says, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days." The word translated days means a variety of time periods, the time to be determined by the context. Here years fits beautifully. Those who are not overcomers at Rapture I will have tribulation ten years, then Rapture II will take place. Those will be saved yet so as by fire for just as soon as they are caught up, the Wrath of God hits Earth.
My heartfelt thanks to all who like my Web Site. God's wonderful blessings on you all. May we meet at the assembly in Heaven right after the Rapture.
(Mrs.) Marilyn J. Agee
Pro and Con 9
Contact me for more information. My e-mail address is: email@example.com
8641 Sugar Gum Road, Riverside, CA, 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110, FAX (909) 697-8960
© 1996, 1997 Marilyn J. Agee