Pro and Con 801

Posted 9-6-01

Black hole brightens at galactic core
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/sci/tech/newsid_1526000/1526724.stm
9-5-01 - By BBC science editor Dr David Whitehouse
A sudden increase in brightness from a cloud of very hot gas near the heart of the Milky Way seems to confirm the idea that a super-massive black hole exists at the galactic core.... Now, new observations of the core have detected a flare of X-ray energy that dimmed and brightened in just 10 minutes. (emphasis mine) The duration, combined with the earlier evidence, allows astronomers to calculate a mass and a size for their suspected black hole. They come out with a mass more than two million times that of our Sun, contained in a region of space just 150 million kilometres (93 million miles) across. A black hole is the only explanation for such figures, the scientists say.... Whatever is there, it has to be truly massive to pull the closest visible stars along at an incredible five million kilometres per hour....

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Clinton - You Can't Stop Globalization Even If You Want To http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/chemtrailtrackingusa/ ..."Globalization is going to proceed and you can't stop it even if you want to," Clinton told about 400 students and faculty members at Sao Paulo's Armando Alvares Penteado University on Tuesday.

"But you cannot have a global economy unless you also have a global economic empowerment policy, a global health care policy, a global education policy, a global environmental policy and a global security policy," Clinton said....

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Re: 10 day warning?
...thought this was pretty interesting with just about 10 days till sept 16-18th.

9-5-01 - 'Dead' woman who came to life released from hospital

Shoshana Gelfand, an 86-year-old woman from Herzliya who was mistakenly pronounced dead last week, was released from Ichilov Hospital in Tel Aviv today.

Last week, after her lifeless body was found at home, a doctor called to the scene confirmed her death.

As her body was being ritually purified for burial she suddenly came back to life.

She has been transferred to a rest home, Army Radio reported.

My reply

Maybe. It would be a good sign. There will be resurrection at the Rapture. Shoshana means LILY . Song of Sol. 2:2 says, "As the LILY among thorns, so is my love among the daughters."

I Ki. 7:19-22 says, "the chapiters that were upon the top of the pillars were of LILY work...And he set up the pillars in the porch of the temple: and he set up the right pillar, and called the name thereof Jachin (meaning He shall establish, or whom [God] strengthens): and he set up the left pillar, and called the name thereof Boaz (in it is strength, or fleetness). And UPON THE TOP OF THE PILLARS WAS LILY WORK: so was the work of the pillars finished." Boaz (kinsman redeemer, type of Christ) was the husband of Ruth (type of the Church).

Notice that in Rev. 3:10-13's message to the Philadelphians that will go through the "open door" in verse 8, it mentions only ONE PILLAR. That makes me think the OTHER PILLAR in the temple represents the 2nd Rapture. Jesus said, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial), which shall come upon all the world, to try (peirasai) them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. HIM THAT OVERCOMETH WILL I MAKE A PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE OF MY GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." Agape

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Re: 7 day warning
may God continue to richly bless you in all things :o)

YOU:
Noah knew 7 days ahead of time, but he had to load the Ark during that week too. If the Rapture is to be on Tishri 1 (Sept. 18, 2001), the Feast of Trumpets, Jesus' birthday, we might get a warning about Sept. 8. That might have been His birthday on our calendar too. Shalom and agape

ME:
Considering that the conference on racism and the final declaration is on September 7, maybe this will be our '7 day Noah warning'. :o) interesting the 'timing' of all these things...conferences etc!! God bless

My reply

Thank you Lord for all the things you bless us with.

I just answered an e-mail about a warning (I will send you a copy), and the next e-mail after this is also about a warning. It must be on our minds. That's great. It shows that we are alert and watching.

All the globalization things going on do warn us that the Tribulation is just around the corner. Agape

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Re: 10 day warning
It is possible that a worldwide market crash could be this 10 day warning. It is also possible that Israel finally gets it's fill of the PLO/Hamas and NUKES Damascus (Isaiah 17) or overruns the West Bank and Gaza. Arafat is certainly plotting against Israel in various capitals around the world similar to Psalms 83. Maybe a major solar flare aimed at earth . God could use this solar blast as his timepiece to rapture the church. This might be the scientific delusion needed for the rest of the world to explain away the missing. Interesting times to say the least. ----from Texas

My reply

I don't know about a stock-market crash, war or solar flare, but things are heating up in Israel. I just answered another e-mail about a sign. I will enclose a copy. We may get more than one sign.

Yes, interesting times. Keep alert. Agape

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From: Jovial, who originally posted on 5 Doves site
Re: Will "Millenium" be approx. 1000 years?
> > Joe said: So this says satan will be bound for 1,000 years and then released for "a short time". If the "Millenium" is EXACTLY 1,000 years, the we have to subtract off a "short time" from that to determine how long satan will be bound - which would be 999 years plus some days at most. Yet the scriptures say satan will be bound for "1,000 years". So if satan is bound for EXACTLY 1,000 years, then the "Millenium" is 1,000 years PLUS a "short time".

> > Marylin replied: Jovial, I don't think you really mean this. You are too good at details. Please read it again....This is his word that says that Satan will be bound for a 1000 years. Then "AFTER THAT" 1000 years, he would be set free for ANOTHER block of time called "A SHORT TIME."

So how is this different than what I said? Sounds like you're just repeating what I said here???

> > Even Webster's dictionary says that a millennium is a period of 1000 years.

So what? No where does the scriptures use the term "millenium". That's just a term we've coined to describe the Kingdom on Earth age. So this would suggest the term "Millenium" is a misnomer then, and perhaps we need a better term to describe this age.

> > If Satan is chained in 2008, wouldn't he be set free in 3008?

Yes, and then he would lead a rebellion. And he don't know if that will be a couple months, a couple years or what. We're not told. So there could be a few months before the New Heaven and New Earth, or it could be 3009, 3010. Hey...who can tell? A "short season" is a rather ambiguous term. We can only conclude it is a time period much smaller than 1,000 years.

But let's also take a look at something. I've listed some proof at http://members.home.net/joe.viel/learn/timeline.htm that God's covenant with Abraham was made no earlier than the year 2023 from creation. It was not EXACTLY 2000 years, but AT LEAST 2023 years. Nothing significant happened at the 1,000 year or 2,000 year time markers.

The most significant event any time close to the 3,000 year mark was 2929-2989 was the time frame in which Solomon became king. But nothing significant happened on the EXACT 3,000 year mark.

Y'shua COULD have been born on the EXACT 4,000 year mark, but it could have also been 3960. That partly depends on how you interpret the timing of Solomon's reign - whether the scriptures are measuring it from the time they left Egypt and enterred the Wilderness or when they crossed into the Promised Land 40 years later.

If the "7 Days of Creation" theory is true, it is not necessarily predictable. Because the scriptures seem to tell us that the "appointed period" is a mixed question of G-d's Election and man's reaction to G-d's plan. For example, we're told...

Matthew 24:21-22 "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened."

So this verse tells us 2 things. One, is that G-d has an appointed time period for all these things to happen. Another is that G-d might altar that appointed time frame as a result of man's activity. We know there's at least one reason why G-d would shorten his appointed period. Maybe there's other reasons He would lengthen it. So no, I don't think there's any way we can figure it out. We might get clues on the appointed period, but we have no clues I know of as to how that period is modified tdue to man's behaviour - only that it can be. Shalom, Joe

My reply

> > > > Joe said: So this says satan will be bound for 1,000 years and then released for "a short time". If the "Millenium" is EXACTLY 1,000 years, the we have to subtract off a "short time" from that to determine how long satan will be bound - which would be 999 years plus some days at most. Yet the scriptures say satan will be bound for "1,000 years". So if satan is bound for EXACTLY 1,000 years, then the "Millenium" is 1,000 years PLUS a "short time".

> > > Marylin replied: Jovial, I don't think you really mean this. You are too good at details. Please read it again....This is his word that says that Satan will be bound for a 1000 years. Then "AFTER THAT" 1000 years, he would be set free for ANOTHER block of time called "A SHORT TIME.">>

> > So how is this different than what I said? Sounds like you're just repeating what I said here???

You said, "If the "Millenium" is EXACTLY 1,000 years, the we have to SUBTRACT off a "short time" from that to determine how long satan will be bound - which would be 999 years plus some days at most." We can't subtract anything from the 1000 years. It is not 999 years plus some days. It is 1000 years. We don't want to put ourselves in the position of arguing with the Lord. In Rev. 20:2,3, the Lord's word says, "Satan, and bound him a thousand years" and "that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and AFTER THAT (after the 1000 years are completed) he must be loosed a little season."

You said, "if satan is bound for EXACTLY 1,000 years, then the "Millenium" is 1,000 years PLUS a "short time". A Millennium can't be more than 1000 years. The "LITTLE SEASON" is a separate time from the Millennium. It runs after the 1000 years end. It is NOT INCLUDED in the 1000-years called the Millennium.

It is similar to the 70th week of Daniel 9:27. That time is NOT INCLUDED in the 6000 years of man's test being mortal and knowing both good and evil or in the millennial Day of the Lord. The 70th week has been inserted in the timeline to try all the people left on the Earth after the Pre-Trib Rapture. At the end of the Millennium, there will be another trial to try all the people on the Earth at that time.

This latter LITTLE SEASON may, or may not, be the same length as the LITTLE SEASON that runs from the breaking of the 5th seal through the breaking of the 6th seal on the last day of this age (Rev. 6:9-12). It stops as the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Rev. 6:11 says of the martyrs, "white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a LITTLE SEASON, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."

If I had to guess how long a little season is, I'd pick 120 days. At the time that the martyrs ask "How long," man might have another 120 days before the catastrophe hits. In Noah's day, man had another 120 years. Gen. 63 says, "the LORD said, My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years."

> > No where does the scriptures use the term "millenium". That's just a term we've coined to describe the Kingdom on Earth age. So this would suggest the term "Millenium" is a misnomer then, and perhaps we need a better term to describe this age.

Our English word millennium is from the L. mille, thousand, and NL. ennium, a period of 1000 years. If you are more comfortable using "a thousand years," that's ok. Either way, we know what we are referring to.

Usually, I call the 7th 1000-year period the millennial Day of the Lord. The first day is the Day of God's Wrath, the Day of Destruction. Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come." Like Solomon, Jesus will purge his kingdom right to start with.

I think it will start on the Feast of Trumpets. Mal. 2:3 says, "your solemn FEASTS; and ONE SHALL TAKE YOU AWAY WITH IT. Hos. 5:7 says, "They have dealt treacherously against the LORD: for they have begotten strange children: now shall a MONTH (CHODESH, NEW MOON) devour them with their portions." Hos. 9:5,6 says, "What will ye do in the solemn day, and in the day of the FEAST of the LORD? For, lo, they are gone because of DESTRUCTION."

Joel 2:1 says, "Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand." Joel 2:11 say, "the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the DAY OF THE LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?" Joel 2:31 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before (i.e., on the last day of this age, the breaking of the 6th seal; then the next day is the Feast of Trumpets) the great and terrible DAY OF THE LORD come."

In Joel 3:14, Gog's army attacks Israel. "Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for the DAY OF THE LORD is near in the valley of decision." Amos 5:18 says, "Woe unto you that desire the DAY OF THE LORD ! to what end is it for you? the DAY OF THE LORD is darkness, and not light." Amos 5:20 says, "Shall not the DAY OF THE LORD be darkness, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?" Obad. 1:15 says, "the DAY OF THE LORD is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head." Zech. 14:1-3 says, " the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather ALL NATIONS against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle." That was when more died from the falling stones than the children of Israel killed on Joshua's Long Day (type of Jesus' Long Day). Joshua 10:11 says, " it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that THE LORD CAST DOWN GREAT STONES FROM HEAVEN upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword."

Mal. 4:5 says, "I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful DAY OF THE LORD" II Peter 3:10 says, "the DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

> > Matthew 24:21-22 "For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now--and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened." > > So this verse tells us 2 things. One, is that G-d has an appointed time period for all these things to happen. Another is that G-d might altar that appointed time frame as a result of man's activity.

The Lord planned everything before the world began. It will all come true as he planned. Isa. 46:10 says, "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure." I think the Lord is giving Israel some grace years (Luke 13:6-9). If they would turn to him, the Tribulation could be left out. But, he knew before the world began that as a nation, they would not turn to him in time. The Tribulation will take place as planned. Shalom and agape

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Re: Rapture Duration
Dear Sister in Christ, I want to ask your opinion on an issue about the Rapture. My question is how likely is it that the pre-trib rapture will take over a period of a week to conclude for believers of all ages?

Here is my logic - Jesus said: But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be "Mathew 4:37". It appears that it took Noah, his family, and the animals 7 days to get into the Ark "Genesis 7:1-10". We also know that there is a Rapture sequence hierarchy as well "Thess 4:15". Given that fact, as well as allowance for each of us to meet Christ in the air, and the judgment seat, receiving our reward individually from Him it will take a week before the pre-trib rapture is complete. So, a serial rapture is more likely than a parallel one.

Furthermore, we know that there are 604,800 seconds in a week. So if it takes each believer 0.00001 of a second to be raptured, it will take a week to be completed. This indicates there are approximately 6,000,000,000 believers of all ages (like number of man).

Jesus also mentioned: But many who are first will be last, and the last first "Mathew 19:30". Therefore, the kids will be raptured ahead of the parents. So given a family whose members are saved (Husband being the eldest, then the wife, and lastly the child). The kid will go first in the rapture, then the wife, and lastly the husband.

I don't want to make this very long to get the point I am trying to make across, since you're very educated in the Holy Bible.

What's your opinion? Do you see any merit in this theory? I await your reply. May God bless you and family!

My reply

> > how likely is it that the pre-trib rapture will take over a period of a week to conclude

I think both Raptures (Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath) are more likely to take place in one night, Jerusalem time. The 2nd Rapture seems to be between 6 PM and noon on Tishri 1, 5768. Jewish days start at 6 PM on our previous day, 6 hours before our day begins at midnight. On our calendar, this Pre-Wrath Rapture would be between 6 PM Sept. 12 and noon Sept. 13, 2007. If the 2nd Rapture takes place between 6 PM and noon the next day, the 1st Rapture can also take place in 12 hours or less.

Sometime during one night seems most likely. Luke 12:38 says, "if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants." The 1st watch is from 6 PM to 9 PM. The 2nd watch is from 9 PM to midnight. The 3rd watch is from midnight to 3 AM. The 4th watch is from 3 AM to 6 AM. The time in Luke 12:38 would be from 9 PM to 3 AM. That seems reasonable. Mark 13:35 says, "Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even (6 PM), or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing (3 AM), or in the morning (6 AM)." This seems to indicate that Christ will gather us up during one night.

After the 6th seal is broken, Rev. 6:17 says, "the great day of his wrath is come." I think that would be 6 PM on Tishri 1. 5768. Between the breaking of the 6th and 7th seals is when the Tribulation saints are caught up. The 6th seal is broken on the last day of this age. The 7th seal is broken the next day, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. All the trumpet judgments hit Earth that day to purge Christ's kingdom of evil men and save Israel from Gog's united nations' army that is attacking (Eze. 38). Zech. 14:2 says, I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle."

When the first trumpet judgment hits, hail and fire mingled with blood is cast on Earth (Rev. 8:7). This starts after the 6th seal is broken. Rev. 6:13 says, "the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind." Therefore, this hail of burning rocks begin to hit Earth and start fires on the last day of this age and continues on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. At noon, the mountain burning with fire of Rev. 8:8 hits the Mediterranean Sea (Zeph. 2:4,5) and the star (aster) of Rev. 8:10 destroys Babylon.

Christians are not to receive the wrath of God, so the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place after 6 PM (when Jewish days begin)and before the following noon on the Day of God's Wrath. Zeph. 2:2-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired (Israel, 1948); Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you (Tishri 1, 5768/Sept. 13, 2007). Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall BE HID (cathar, BE ABSENT, i.e., be Raptured) IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast."

There is a great multitude which no man can number caught up on that day (Rev. 7:9,14). That is His large flock. Those that are caught up in the first Rapture, the Pre-Trib Rapture, are His little flock. Luke 12,32 says, "Fear not, LITTLE FLOCK; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." If the large flock is taken up within the 12 hours of the night, the little flock can be taken up in 12 hours or less.

> > it took Noah, his family, and the animals 7 days to get into the Ark

Noah went in and out of the Ark all the time he was building it. However, Noah, his family, and all the animals entered on one day, Cheshvan 17, and the Lord closed the door. Gen. 7:11-16 says, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. IN THE SELFSAME DAY ENTERED Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; THEY, AND EVERY BEAST after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life. And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: AND THE LORD SHUT HIM IN."

> > allowance for each of us to meet Christ in the air, and the judgment seat, receiving our reward individually from Him it will take a week before the pre-trib rapture is complete

The Pre-Trib Rapture is before the Tribulation. The judgment then is to determine who goes and who stays. The Pre-Wrath Rapture is on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. The Judgment Seat of Christ is also on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Rev. 11:17,18 says, "We give thee thanks, O LORD God Almighty, which art (at the Rapture), and wast (at the 1st Advent), and art to come (2nd Advent is 7 months later, Eze. 39:12,13); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry (Gog's army attacking Israel), and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED (Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

> > many who are first will be last, and the last first "Mathew 19:30".

I think this means that some that are first will end up being last, and some that are last will end up being first. God is fair. We will get what we deserve. In the Rapture, I expect members of a family to be caught up at the same time. Mt. 19:30 (WNT) says, "But many who are now first will be last, and many who are now last will be first. Blessings and agape

Incoming email

Thank you for your thoughtful and detailed response. I get so excited studying and you encourage so many of us to "dig deeper!"

ONE MORE QUESTION (sorry to pester)--I just don't understand why Jesus would liken himself to a thief for those who are not watching for His return. I surely understand the "surprise" aspect to a thief's work, but under no circumstances does a thief take what belongs to him (and Christ does); a thief steals and that is sin (Christ does not); a thief causes destruction and violates trust and security--things that any righteous person, let alone Christ, would not do. The unexpected, surprise element is so important to underscore that Christians should stay alert, on guard. I can't grasp why Jesus would compare himself to a thief because of these other issues.

My reply

Sorry to be so long answering. Christ is not a thief. He comes as a thief comes to some. He comes unexpectedly to them. Besides that, he only takes the things of considerable value. At the 1st Rapture, he leaves the things of little worth behind the way a thief would do.

Incoming email

Re: temptation vs tribulation
Have you noticed in the HRV how temptation is frequently used where we are used to seeing tribulation?

My reply

I hadn't paid much attention to "affliction" or "tribulation," because "thlipsis" can mean pressure, anguish, burdened, persecution, tribulation or trouble. So I did a search for "tribulation" in the KJV to compare those verses with the HRV. I only needed the NT verses, but happened to click on De. 4:29-31. It was sure interesting. I never know what will turn up as I look for something else.

It says, "if from thence thou shalt seek the LORD thy God, thou shalt find him, if thou seek him with all thy heart and with all thy soul. WHEN THOU ART IN TRIBULATION, and all these things are come upon thee, EVEN IN THE LATTER DAYS, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; (For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) HE WILL NOT forsake thee, neither DESTROY THEE, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them." That doesn't sound like the 144,000 all have to be martyrs, as someone said.

I like the way James Trimm translated I Cor. 8:6. It says, "to us ourselves, [there] is one Eloah, the father, from whom [are] all [things] and by whom we are, and one YHVH, Yeshua the Messiah; by his hand [are] all [things] and by his hand we are also." (emphasis his)

Luke 12:36,37 in the HRV is clearer than the KJV. The emphasis here is mine. It says, "be like men who wait for their master at that time when he returns from THE HOUSE OF THE WEDDING FEAST (i.e., from Heaven), so that when he comes and knocks they may immediately open to him. Blessed are those servant's whose master comes and finds them awake." Agape

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