I think God wants as many people as possible to know that there is an asteroid threat. That Rev. 8:8,10 is talking about asteroid impacts could not be known perfectly before the first asteroid was discovered in modern times. Now we can understand it perfectly. Every heavenly body that we have been able to photograph the surface of is pockmarked with craters. The Earth is not immune, although the Moon may have swept many from our orbital path. Lights that have been sighted on the Moon from time to time may have been asteroid impacts.
Jer. 23:16-20 says, "Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Hearken not unto the words of the prophets (false prophets) that prophesy unto you: they make you vain: they speak a vision of their own heart, and not out of the mouth of the LORD. THEY SAY still unto them that despise me, The LORD hath said, YE SHALL HAVE PEACE; and they say unto every one that walketh after the imagination of his own heart, NO EVIL SHALL COME UPON YOU. For who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it? Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of THE WICKED (False Prophet). The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: IN THE LATTER DAYS YE SHALL CONSIDER (BIYN, UNDERSTAND) IT PERFECTLY."
I can just imagine the Satan-possessed False Prophet saying that Israel will have peace and that no evil will come upon them. Satan told Eve, "Ye shall not surely die" (Gen. 3:4). He lies a lot.
Rev. 8:8-11 (HRV) says, "The second sounded and [there] was a GREAT MOUNTAIN BURNING. IT FELL INTO THE SEA and a third of the sea became blood. And a third of all the creatures that are in the sea that have life died, and a third of the ships were destroyed. And the third sounded and a GREAT STAR (ASTER) FELL FROM HEAVEN, BURNING as a flame, and it fell on a third of the rivers and on the fountains of water. And the name of the star was called Wormwood, and a third of the water became as wormwood and a multitude of mankind died because the waters were embittered." (emphasis mine) Agape
I know that you believe that heaven is the planet Saturn. You do produce some scriptures and much commentary supporting the theory which I am sure came through much sincere study of the subject.
However, there are also other scriptures (seemingly) leading in a different direction. Specifically, I refer to 3 scriptural references that imply that heaven exists in the direction of the NORTH.
Leviticus 1:11 "And he shall kill it on the side of the altar NORTHWARD before (toward) the Lord:"
Psalms 75:6-7 "For promotion cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south. But God is the judge:" (The context here seems to imply that the one direction not mentioned is associated with God, NORTH)
Isaiah 14:13 "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the NORTH:" (Satan has always wanted to be like God and here describes how he would also like to have a throne for himself where God has His. Surely Satan knows where Heaven is and made reference to it here.)
My question to you is, how do you reconcile the above references to the direction of heaven as being northward with a Saturn theory. It seems to me that they both could not be correct since they don't both lead in the same direction, (literally). Saturn is generally in an ever changing, lateral (east-west) direction from earth, not north of it.
Please understand, I am not trying to exalt one line of thinking over another. I simply wish to properly understand God's Word to us. Your thoughts are sincerely appreciated. In Christ
In Ezekiel's visions, don't think of the orbital plane as being a flat straight line east and west as if you viewed it edge on. That way, you could not see the orbits as open concentric rings. Ezekiel saw the orbits as open circles, wheels within wheels, with the Sun as the hub in the center. If a vertical wheel has directions, we would naturally put north at the top, as on a map. Think of Ezekiel's visions as a map he saw in the sky.
In Eze. 1 (and 10), the four terrestrial planets, including Earth (1:15) are depicted as orbiting in concentric circles, "a wheel in the middle of a wheel" (1:16) around the central Sun (1:4). Each planet circles in the 4 cardinal directions marked by 4 banners with faces on them, as when Israel camped around the Tabernacle in the wilderness. Above their "heads" (i.e., upward, or north) was a firmament, expanse of space. "And there was a voice from the firmament that was over their heads, when they stood...And above (i.e., farther north) the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as (symbolic language) the appearance of a sapphire stone (meaning dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear): and upon the likeness (symbolic language) of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (Christ) above upon it" (Eze. 1:25,26).
The sapphire is symbolic, and the same throne was represented as being on a high sapphire paved work at Mount Sinai too. In Hebrew, it even sounds as if the Israelites stood under the mountain, as if it was raised up above the Earth. On p. 276 in Signs in the Heavens, Avi Ben Mordechai said, "Exodus 19:17: Then Moses led the people out of the camp to meet with God, and they stood at the foot of the mountain. [Literally in Hebrew: Tachtit--underneath the mountain as in the mountain being in the air and floating above the people." It was a good symbol. Ex. 24:10 says, "they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven (heavenly body) in his clearness." Agape
Gal. 3:19,10,28 (HRV) says, "Why then The Torah? Because of apostasy it was added until that seed should come to who the promise was. And The Torah was given through angels and through a mediator. Now a mediator is not of ECHAD (united), but Eloah (God) is ECHAD (united)...There is not Jew and not Aramean. There is not servant and not a son of freedom. There is not male and not female for ALL YOU ARE ECHAD (united) in Yeshua The Messiah."
I Chr. 17:21 (KJV) says, "what one ECHAD (united) nation in the earth is like thy people Israel, whom God went to redeem to be his own people."
The USA is a united nation. The ekklesia, called out ones, is a united group of people, the Body of Christ. God is united, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. Agape
Why was Israel given land that had belonged to the Canaanites? The Canaanites worshiped false gods. Why was the USA given land that had belonged to the Indians? The Indians worshiped false gods.
The USA has a role to play today, and as a nation, we are strongly pro Israel. II Sam. 7:23 says, "what one (echad, UNITED) NATION in the earth is like thy people, even LIKE ISRAEL, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, FROM THE NATIONS AND THEIR GODS?"
There have been other cultures that have fallen from power, such as the Aztecs. They too worshiped false gods. Agape
I read couple studies, and it occurred to my mind that did you know that 2 witnesses also had part in jewish wedding ceremony, one escorting the bride to the wedding chamber and that there had to be 2 witnesses to witness the appearing of the new moon? Wouldnt that mean that 2 witnesses would have to be here on earth on that very day or maybe even before our Rapture, witnessing new moon/escorting bride from here to heaven?
And another thing i got from studies, "Genesis 1:5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--one day.", God puts dark/night before light/day. And so if we are to reflect light to this world, to bring the day, and if we get get raptured, light of the day goes away, and after that comes dark, which is beginning of the new day. Simply, our rapture would end this day. I guess that you knew all this before, but this is a nice little addition to point that 7-year tribulation is not part of 6th day. Maranatha,
In "The Rapture," Greg said,
^ ^ ^ Who are the "saints"?
^ ^ ^ Daniel 7:23-27 "...The saints will be handed over to him for a time, times and half a time. "'But the court will sit, and his power will be taken away and completely destroyed forever. Then the sovereignty, power and greatness of the kingdoms under the whole heaven will be handed over to the saints, the people of the Most High. His kingdom will be an everlasting kingdom, and all rulers will worship and obey him.'
^ ^ ^ If you believe that the righteous are the "saints", then it is the righteous who will be oppressed and handed over to the fourth beast. It is the righteous, then, who will ultimately have the sovereignty, power, and the greatness of the kingdoms!
^ ^ ^ If all the righteous are "raptured to heaven", then who is oppressed and handed over? Who will be ruling?
^ ^ ^ "The TaNaK and the Apostolic Writings agree that the righteous have their eternal dwelling on earth. We do not ever see people dwelling in heaven. The scripture all agree that only the wicked are removed from the earth. I see no justification for saying that the righteous will be raptured to heaven. The pattern of scripture is for The LORD to protect the righteous in the midst of tribulation, not to remove them."
In contrast, I think there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture for wise Philadelphian virgins and the dead in Christ that belong in that group. We can see that the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles of Israel will be in Heaven at that time, for they sit on 24 thrones in Heaven right after the 1st Rapture (Rev. 4:4). The other 11 apostles are caught up with John in Rev. 4:1, for none had yet died when Y'shua was resurrected, and some OT saints arose and were seen in Jerusalem. All the saints caught up in the 1st Rapture will spend the Tribulation years in Heaven, return with Christ to assist in setting up the millennial government on Earth, then return to their home, the heavenly New Jerusalem. When needed on Earth, they can commute. The foolish Laodicean virgins will be left behind at the 1st Rapture. It is the Tribulation saints that are oppressed by the Satan-possessed False Prophet. I believe there will be a Pre-Wrath Rapture for all believers left on Earth in the night before God's wrath hits Earth at noon on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord (Zeph. 2:4,5). All Israel left on Earth will accept Y'shua on that day (Isa. 66:8). In the Millennium, both the trusting Jews that have died, and those that have made it through the Tribulation, will live on Earth, but there is an exception. Some will choose the Heavenly New Jerusalem instead (more about this later).
In my comments below, I will quote from the Hebraic-Roots Version (HRV) for the NT, the Complete Jewish Bible (CJB) for the OT. I will substitute brackets for carots in the HRV so those words will not be omitted in the HTML text in my Pro and Cons. Capitals and bold face type for emphasis are mine.
If no saints were going to live in Heaven, Y'shua/Jesus would not have told us to lay up treasures in Heaven. In Mt. 6:19-21 (HRV), he said, "LAY NOT UP FOR YOURSELVES STORES UPON EARTH, [where caterpillar] and moth devour, and where thieves break through and steal, BUT LAY UP FOR YOURSELVES STORES IN HEAVEN, WHERE CATERPILLAR AND MOTH WASTE NOT, AND WHERE THIEVES DO NOT STEAL, FOR JUST WHERE YOUR STORE IS, THERE YOUR HEART WILL BE ALSO." Y'shua also would not have said, "Not everyone that says to me, "Adonai, Adonai,' will enter into the Kingdom of Heaven; but he that do the will of my Father, which is in heaven, THE SAME WILL ENTER WITH ME INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN" (Mt. 7:21; HRV).
In Gen. 17:4, the Lord told Abraham that he would be the father of many nations. In verses 7 and 8 (CJB), he said, "I am establishing my covenant between me and you, along with your descendants after you, generation after generation, as an everlasting covenant, to be God for you and for your descendants after you. I will give you and your descendants after you the land in which you are now foreigners, all the land of Kena'an, as a PERMANENT POSSESSION: and I will be their God." Therefore, Abraham had a right to expect to live in Canaan on Earth, but he has since changed his mind.
Hebrews 11:13-16 (HRV) says, "These all (Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Sarah) died in trust and did not receive their promise, but saw it from afar and rejoiced in it and confessed that they were strangers and sojourners on the earth. Now those who say these things demonstrate that they seek their city. And if they sought that city from which they came out (on Earth), they had opportunity to return and go to it. But now it is evident that THEY LONGED FOR ONE BETTER THAN THAT, FOR THAT ONE WHICH IS IN HEAVEN. Because of this, Eloah (God) was not ashamed to be called their Eloah, for he prepared for them a city." Scripture is clear that Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Sarah could return to the earthly Jerusalem if they wanted to, but they have now chosen the better city, the heavenly New Jerusalem.
At the Rapture in I Thess. 4:13-18, Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Sarah, and other OT and NT saints that have died in Christ, will come down from Heaven with Y'shua and get their resurrection bodies first. Then the living wise-virgin saints will rise up with them to meet Y'shua in the clouds. Then they will all return with him to the place of his heavenly throne.
These saints are seen before the throne of God in Heaven in Rev. 5:9,10. It says that the holy ones are singing a new song and saying, "You (Y'shua, the Lamb of God) are worthy to take the book (Title Deed of the Earth) and to loosen its seals because you were slain and you have bought us with your blood for Eloah FROM ALL THE TRIBES AND NATIONS AND PEOPLES. And you made them to Eloah a Kingdom and cohenim (priests) and kings, and they will reign on (epi, on or over) the earth." In those days, there may be times that we are needed on Earth, but we can travel back and forth. Our home is in the heavenly New Jerusalem.
Rev. 3:10-12 (HRV) says, "Because you have kept the word of my patience, I will keep you from the temptation (the 7-year 5th cycle of discipline of Lev. 26:28, the 70th week of Dan. 9:27, the 7-year Tribulation) that will come on all the inhabited earth, to prove all the inhabitants of the earth. I COME QUICKLY (at the Rapture). Hold fast what you have so that no man takes your crown. And I will make him who overcomes a pillar (one of the two) in the Temple of Eloah and he shall not go outside again and I will write upon him the name of my Eloah and the name of the NEW CITY, YERUSHALAYIM, THAT DESCENDS FROM MY ELOAH, and my own new name." This city is a sphere about 1323 miles in diameter (Rev. 21:16). It would not fit in the whole country of Israel, which can be crossed by car in 90 minutes.
Y'shua ends his own words in Scripture saying, "YES, I AM COMING SOON" (Rev. 22:20 (HRV). He means he is coming at the Rapture, for he chose for the setting of The Revelation of Jesus Christ the time when the 1st Rapture is at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10). He will be revealed to us at the Rapture. We will see him as John did in the Preview of the Rapture in Revelation one.
^ ^ ^ Who are the ones "who overcome"?
^ ^ ^ Revelation 2:26-28 To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations-- 'He will rule them with an iron scepter; he will dash them to pieces like pottery'--just as I have received authority from my Father. I will also give him the morning star.
^ ^ ^ If you believe that the righteous are the "over-comers", then the righteous will be ruling on earth! So, why would they be "raptured" to heaven?
These overcomers are New Testament believers. They are to be given both "authority over the nations" and "the morning star," which is Heaven. Y'shua has his throne on a planet seen in the morning sky. He called himself the morning star because he lives on a morning star, but these believers already have Him in their hearts. This morning star in Rev. 2:28 refers to something other than Y'shua himself. I think this morning star is the 3rd heaven, the Paradise Paul was caught up to in II Cor. 12:2-7. These wise virgin believers will be raptured to keep them away from the Tribulation and the Wrath of God.
^ ^ ^ Bereshit (Genesis) 13:14-15 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Lift up your eyes from where you are and look north and south, east and west. All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever.
^ ^ ^ If Abram does not get his land, on earth, forever, then God is a liar!
^ ^ ^ Shemot (Exodus) 32:13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: 'I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.'"
^ ^ ^ If Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob don't get this land, on earth, forever, then God is a liar!
God is not a liar. Everything is just not always as simple as it might seem. All trusting Israelites can live on Earth forever. It is given to them. However, God has also allowed Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Sarah to choose which Jerusalem they wanted to live in, the heavenly New Jerusalem or the earthly Jerusalem. These chose the heavenly New Jerusalem.
^ ^ ^ We can see that in the days of Noah, and in the days of the return of the Messiah, that the wicked will be taken and the righteous will remain on earth. If there is a rapture, the only ones raptured will be the wicked. In the days of Noah we see the righteous preserved in the midst of the tribulation which killed the wicked. They were not removed from it.
Noah was floated up in the air to act out people being caught up by the Holy Spirit to meet Y'shua in the air. Water is a symbol of the Holy Spirit, as in a fountain of living water welling up within you. Rev. 21:6, Y'shua said, "It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning (YHVH of the Old Testament) and the end (YHVH of hosts, the Redeemer, Isa. 44:6). I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely." In Noah's Flood, all the wicked were left behind to die. The days of Noah represent the 1st Rapture. The days of Lot represent the 2nd Rapture.
^ ^ ^ Some have suggested that Enoch and Elijah were “raptured” and that this is the precedent for the rapture of ALL the righteous. I point out that there were more righteous folks on earth at the time of these two men, yet they were not "taken". I suggest that these two do not represent a decent argument for the rapture of all the righteous.
I Cor. 10:11 (KJV) says, "Now all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (lit., ages) are come." The HRV is clearer. It says, "Now all these [things] that happened to them were for our example, and it was written for our instruction upon whom the end of the ages has come."
Therefore, I think the catching up of Enoch was an example of how it will be when the 1st Rapture takes place. There is no fire. The catching up of Elijah was an example of how it will be when the 2nd Rapture snatches those believers out of the fire just before the mountain sized asteroid of Rev. 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea (Zeph. 2:4,5). After the 6th seal is broken, but before the burning mountain hits Earth at noon the next day, smaller rocks flash into flame as they come through our atmosphere (Rev. 6:13). They will set many wildfires. The smoke will obscure the Sun and make the Moon look red. The Tribulation saints will be saved so as by fire. The 144,000 Israelites and a great number which no man can number are "those who came from great affliction and have washed their robes and whitened them in the blood of the Lamb (Rev. 7:14, HRV).
> > Wouldnt that mean that 2 witnesses would have to be here on earth on that very day or maybe even before our Rapture, witnessing new moon/escorting bride from here to heaven?
I expect Moses and Elijah to come as the Tribulation starts, because they are to prophesy the 1st 1260 days (Rev. 11:3). We are the Bride of Christ, but the Marriage of the Lamb takes place in Heaven on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. The 144,000 Israelites must be added to the Bride group. They are virgins without fault before the throne of God (Rev. 14:4,5). Between the Rapture and the Marriage, we will visit our habitation. Job 5:24 (KJV) says, "And thou shalt know that thy tabernacle shall be in peace; and THOU SHALT VISIT THY HABITATION, AND SHALT NOT SIN."
Because the 144,000 Israelite Tribulation saints that are virgins without fault before the throne of God (Rev. 14:4,5) are to be added to the Bride of Christ in Heaven, just before the Marriage of the Lamb, the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints takes place. Mark 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN" (to gather those that were caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture).
Heb. 12:18-24 (HRV) says of the assembly in Heaven that day, "you have neither drawn near to the fire [of the mountain] that burned (Mt. Sinai)...But you have drawn near to the mountain of Tziyon and to the city of the living Eloah, to the YERUSHALAYIM THAT IS IN HEAVEN and to the innumerable multitudes of angels, And to the assembly of the firstborn who are written IN HEAVEN, and to Eloah, the judge of all, and TO THE SPIRITS OF THE JUST WHO ARE PERFECTED." I hope to see you at that assembly in Heaven on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord.
That will be Y'shua/Joshua's Long Day, of which Joshua's Long Day of Jos.10:13 was the example. Y'shua will receive his golden crown. The Marriage of the Lamb will take place. Afterward, both Heaven and Earth will be silent while the judge is being seated, then the Judgment Seat of Christ will convene. There will be rewards for believers in Heaven and God's wrath on unbelievers left on the Earth.
Rev. 11:15-19 (HRV) says, "the seventh angel sounded and there were great voices IN HEAVEN saying, The kingdom of the world has become [the Kingdom] of our Eloah and of his Messiah; and he [will] REIGN FOREVER AND EVER. And the twenty-four elders who were sitting before Eloah upon their thrones, fell upon their faces and worshiped Eloah Saying, We praise you, ADONAI YHWH ALMIGHTY, who is and was, because you have taken your great power and you have reigned. And the nations were angry (on Earth, Gog's united nations' army is attacking Israel), yet your anger has come and the time of the dead that they should be JUDGED. And you will give a REWARD to your servants, the prophets, and to the set-apart-ones and to those who fear your name, the small with the great. And you will destroy those who destroyed the earth. And the Temple was opened IN HEAVEN and the ark of his covenant was seen in the Temple. And there were lightnings and thunders and voices and fire and great hail."
Tishri 1, this is the day all Israel will be saved on Earth. The Lord will fight for them that day. The nation that is left will be born in a day that day. They will live on into the Millennium, having accepted Y'shua too late to make the last trip out of here before the fire falls. They will busy themselves burying the dead to cleanse the land for the Lord's return (Eze. 39:12,13). After Y'shua the Messiah returns to Earth on the following Nisan 1, first day of the Jewish Regnal Year, he will sit to judge those left on the Earth at the Judgment of the Nations. The "sheep" will live on into the Millennium. The "goats" will be done away with. Dominion will be taken away from Satan. He and his forces will put up a last-ditch stand at Armageddon, but cannot prevail. After Armageddon, true peace will come to this troubled Earth. When Y'shua goes back to the heavenly New Jerusalem, those Israelites that want to stay on Earth can do so. Those that want to live in the heavenly New Jerusalem can do that too. Daniel will stand in his lot in Israel at the end of the 1335 days (Dan. 12:13). Shalom and agape
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