Pro and Con 81, Uploaded 4-3-98

Incoming Email

It seems to me that since the Christians I talk to are very much divided as to pre-trib/pre-wrath your two rapture idea is the only explanation that would make them (and the Holy Spirit in them) both right. I was skeptical the first time I heard it but It makes a lot of sense.

You have probably mentioned this but I just noticed that in Jer. 38 Jeremiah is rescued from the mirey dungeon by an Eithiopian with 30 men using ROTTEN RAGS to lift him up. The scriptures say something like good works done without faith are like filthy rags. Could this mean something like works done as fruit of the Sprit having to do with who goes in the first rapture? I belive in salvation through faith alone but should not faith eventually produce some good fruit? It is kind of scary though when a prize depends on works. The human heart is desperatly wicked and not fit to judge itself. I guess thats where faith and trust in GOD come into play. I will keep praying that my family and I get to go because it is unimaginable just how bad things are going to get here, for many life is already very difficult. Why shouldn't we be eager to go to a much better place?

My reply

Thanks for bringing this to my attention. I had not worked it out about the rotten rags before, but knew that Jeremiah's being taken out of the pit pictured the Rapture. Considering the rotten rags brought to mind something else that I had glimpsed and starred in my Bible as I read it before. Sometimes, two heads are better than one to put together the whole picture.

> The scriptures say something like good works done without faith are like filthy rags.
> Could this mean something like works done as fruit of the Sprit having to do with who
> goes in the first rapture?

Isa. 64:6 says, "But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags." The word "as" is symbolic language. I think it is significant that Jeremiah was raised up by "Old rotten rags" around cords. It might picture Christ's righteousness as the cords and our righteousnesses around that. The other thing that is interesting is found in Jer. 38:14: "the king sent, and took Jeremiah the prophet unto him into the third entry that is in the house of the LORD." This sounds like a picture of a third Rapture, counting that of Enoch as number one, that of Elijah as number two and that of the Bride of Christ as number three? If so, Jeremiah will be one of the dead in Christ raised up ahead of us. We would meet him and Christ in the sky (I Thess. 4:16,17). It all makes sense, doesn't it.

It also ties in with Rev. 19:8: "the fine linen (of the wife of the Lamb) is the righteousness (lit. righteousnesses) of saints." The preceding verse says, "and his wife hath MADE HERSELF READY." That is what we want to do right now, make ourselves ready. First, we must have the righteousness of Christ. Second, we should wrap this cord with our righteous acts. For them to count, they should be committed while we are filled with the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, we are as "sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal...And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity (agape, God's love), it profiteth me nothing" (I Cor. 13:1-3).

I am eager to go to a better place. This world is going to the dogs--fast.

Incoming Email

Hebraic Heritage Ministries Int'l March 16 to March 22, 1998
AUTHOR: David Rosen SOURCE:The Messianic Times

Clyde Lott is planning an unusual cattle roundup this spring which some consider prophetic. At $320 per head, 500 cattle will be airlifted from the U.S. to Tel Aviv, 140 at a time. The 14 hour journey will end in a secret settlement in Israel.

Besides restoring Israel's Red Angus cattle population, Lott expects the Nebraska herd to provide at least five to seven heifers that might fit the requirements for a Numbers 19 umblemished red heifer for Temple sacrifice. "And by the time they reach the age of three, it would probably be less than half of that," says Lott. "Nevertheless, we'd have more than one that would meet all the requirements."

Incoming Email

I want to welcome Christopher into the family of God. I cried as I read the exchange between you and Christopher. The fact that you gave him scripture after scripture after scripture and then gave him your bold 2 cents worth of advice was an inspiration to me.

I check your site daily and am so comforted and excited to read about you and others being excited and expecting the Lord Jesus soon, as am I. I go to a good and Bible believing and teaching church but I can't find many who will listen to me about Jesus coming again soon. My passion for His soon return is hard to find.

I've helped to lead several people to Jesus and although I feel good about that, I feel terrible about how many people I have failed to reach for Him. Seeing the dialog between you and Christopher helped to remind me that the Word is what saves. I was saved through His Word in Job of all places! Your web site has helped me to get more and more into reading my Bible, which hopefully will help me to more and more interject Jesus's Word into my conversations with people. It is amazing how many opportunities come up each day that allow us to give people the Word of Jesus. You have opened this up to me.

And, although I don't agree with you about 2 raptures, I think you are right about most everything else in your web site. Mostly, you have helped me to clean up some sins in my life that I had fallen into. I didn't necessarily want to clean up these sins, but your web site lead me to read my Bible and then I was convicted of these sins through the Holy Spirit and through the Word, which is Jesus.

My main purpose in this e-mail to rejoice in the salvation of Christopher. I suspect that I am not alone in cleaning up my act because of your web site. I hope to clean up more and more each day as Pentecost 98 comes, and if it goes and we are still here, then I will continue to clean house of my sins.

Thank you for the time and effort you have done to reach us believers and non-believers alike.

My reply

We all rejoice that one more soul is saved for the Lord. I'm looking forward to meeting him in Heaven. As you indicated, Scripture is what speaks loudest.

I didn't know there were two Raptures until about 1968. It is not nailed down by many teachers, but is left open as a possibility when they say that there may be a translation for the Tribulation saints, and that there are different ranks in the resurrection.

It is hard to miss though in Rev. 7:14,15. It says of a great multitude out of all nations (including Israel, therefore including the 144,000), "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the THRONE of God." This ties in with Jesus' promise to the Laodiceans who are spewed out of his mouth at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture. Rev. 3:21 says, "To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my THRONE." Overcomers are those who have bought white robes.

It is hard to imagine that "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations" could all be martyred. It is even harder to think that the 144,000, who are sealed, could be martyred. There must be a second translation in Rev. 7, between the opening of the sixth (Rev. 6:12) and seventh seals (Rev. 8:1).

God works in sevens because it means completion. There just may be seven "Raptures:" Enoch, Elijah, Christ, Bride of Christ, two witnesses, Tribulation saints, and Millennial saints.

Her reply

...Well, I do believe there may be two raptures but I may disagree about who goes up in the first one. None of us are worthy, but we are all loved.

There is an interesting thing I learned that I thought you would find interesting if you didn't already know it. Compare the duties of the saints in Rev. 1:6 and Rev. 5:10 with those in Rev. 7:15. The first group in Rev 1:6 and Rev 5:10 are to be a kingdom of priests and will reign on earth. The second group in 7:15 are to be before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple.

The first group are priests, the second are servants and I think there is a distinction here. It seems to me that it will be more desirable to be in the priestly group than the servant group. The first group would appear to have a wider territory and job description. The second group simply serves in the temple. The second group also seems pretty sad compared to the first group who are singing rather than having their tears wiped away by God.

Do you see the distinction? I've heard about people saying that they aren't willing to become believers now but if the Rapture occurs then they will be and will gladly be martyred for Jesus. However, it seems to me that this group will not have as many blessings as those who go up first. This makes sense to me as Jesus told Thomas, once he finally believed because he SAW the nail prints and wound in the side of our Lord, good for you Thomas but BLESSED are those who do not see yet believe. Once the Rapture occurs there will probably be many who now finally believe because they have seen the Rapture and have proof of the Lord's existence.

Being a servant of God isn't a bad thing by any account, but being rulers and priests with Jesus is so much more of a reward.

What do you think?

My reply

> Do you see the distinction?

Definitely. It looks like the first group are the Bride of Christ too, because the wise virgins went with the Bridegroom when he came.

Before I forget, When Rev. 5:10 says, "And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth," the word for "on" also means "over." Some people teach that we will be on Earth a thousand years when we are promised a heavenly home. I don't think so. I believe that we will come to Earth with Christ, help him set up the millennial government, and then all return to Heaven. We can travel back and forth easily when necessary. While setting up the millennial government, Christ will sit on David's throne. After he returns to Heaven, David will sit on his own throne as a prince under Christ.

Jer. 30:9 says that "they shall serve the LORD their God, AND David their king, whom I will raise up unto them."

Incoming Email

The Lord has been reminding me of an old verse with new meaning, Luke 21:34 "And take heed to yourselves lest at anytime your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and drunkeness and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unaware"

RE: CARES OF THIS LIFE......With all the "stuff" in life that we all have, I can see how people just don't have a clue about the world around them. I have been blessed with keen ears and I have been able to keep my ears to the ground, especially over the last few years. This verse screams to me!! People are so pre-occupied with trivial and non-trivial "stuff" (mostly trivial). How easy it is to fall into the trap of complacency and just plain "getting by." It takes so much emotional and physical energy to study. It's so easy to ignore God's Word and to get caught up with the world. I know, I was there. Fortunately, the Lord gave me a deluxe wake-up call. I am just now figuring out just why I went through some real icky stuff. It was to get my attention so I'd start "watching"!!! PRAISE THE LORD!!!

Thanks again, Marilyn. I hope you don't mind me using you as a sounding board. It won't hurt my feelings if you don't answer. I pray for divine, supernatural energy for you.

My reply

> The Lord has been reminding me of an old verse with new meaning, Luke 21:34 "And take
> heed to yourselves lest at anytime your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting and
> drunkeness and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unaware"

Doesn't this sound like we should be aware of the day?

Thanks for your prayer. I need it. My schedule is full, yet I want to do some research.

Incoming Email

mark neumann,, wrote:

You misunderstood me when i said that you should make sure that you are not leading people away from God. What I was referring to the fact that you miss quote scripture! People are apparantly looking to you for guidance and you are telling them your ideas and oppinions, not what the Bible say's very clearly" Just as a man can prevent trouble from thieves by keeping watch for them, so you can avoid trouble by always being ready for my unanounced return." The Bible did not say look for me at the time I give Marilyn J. Agee.

Do you believe that once you are saved you are always saved? Do you think that God would stand by and let you sin and not care. Why does the Bible say that God is a jealous God that want's all of us not just parts of us. Yes salvation is a free gift to us but just like when we ask God into our hearts we need to keep him there. The Bible says that God cannot stand sin. So if you sin and don't care how can God still live inside of you if you are full of something other than him? and somethind that he can't stand.

My last question is, what are you doing on June 1? Because that day I am going to E-Mail you again as expect a explination for God not returning on May 31. Read Revalation 22:18-19. This is what you are doing.

My reply

I am very careful to quote Scripture correctly.

> "Just as a man can prevent trouble from thieves by keeping watch for them, so you
> can avoid trouble by always being ready for my unanounced return."

Could you please give me the version, chapter and verse where you found this? The word "unanounced," or unannounced, does not appear in the KJV. It is not in Strong's, or Young's, concordance.

> Do you believe that once you are saved you are always saved?.


> Yes salvation is a free gift to us but just like when we ask God into our hearts
> we need to keep him there.

Are you really saying that we are saved by grace and then kept by works? Paul told the Galatians in 3:1-3, "O FOOLISH Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you: This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?"

Jesus said, "I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee" (Heb. 13:5). Do you think then that he would leave you? I don't see how he can remove our sealing, for we are sealed until the day of redemption.

Eph. 4:30-32 says, "And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you."

However, I think we can temporarily be spewed out of the Body of Christ for chastening at the moment of the Rapture for the Bride of Christ. This does not mean that the Laodiceans lose their sealing, but what he has said to the Laodiceans, he can do.

In Rev. 3:15,16, he said, "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth." They are in the stomach, unassimilated.

This pictures those not wearing "white raiment" (Rev. 3:18) and therefore left behind at the Rapture of the Bride of Christ (the wise virgins who are found wearing white raiment; the Bride wears white, Rev. 19:8). The foolish virgins are left behind when the Bridegroom comes. Why? because they are not wearing white raiment. They do not have enough oil of the Holy Spirit in their vessels. They do have some (i.e., their sealing), but their lamps are sputtering. Therefore, they are temporarily spewed out. We can't lose salvation, but we can lose the prize of being caught up in the first Rapture. At the second Rapture, one can be saved so as by fire.

By the time of the Rapture of the Tribulation saints, they will "have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14).

Luke 21:34-36 says, "And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you UNAWARES. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

What do you think "UNAWARES" indicates? That we should be aware? Are you aware?

In Rev. 3:3, Jesus says, "If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." What will we know if we do watch?

> what are you doing on June 1?

If the Rapture takes place on Pentecost. I don't know what I will be doing. If it does not, I will be patiently waiting, as I have been all these years, until it does happen. Jesus said to occupy until he comes. This I intend to do.

Incoming Email

I don't see, where you can be so sure, that the first , "come up hither", in Revelation, has to be the rapture. I realize there are two "come up hither" 's in Revelation, but what about Rev. 19, it sounds as if the rapture is there also. Please share with me your insight regarding the timing of the rapture. Thanks, your brother in Christ,

My reply

Look at Rev. 19. "he hath (already) judged the great whore...and hath (already) avenged the blood of his servants at her hand." The great multitude are not said to be just then taken to Heaven; they are already in Heaven before the Day of God's Wrath comes. Believers are not to come into condemnation. Therefore, they can't be on Earth during the outpouring of God's Wrath.

Incoming Email

I read with great interest your page on "The two feet of the body of Christ". While I am mostly in agreement, I must point out the following to you.

John 3:12-13
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?
13 No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven-- the Son of Man. (NIV)

Heb 11:13
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth. (NIV)

From these two scriptures, I conclude that, contrary to popular opinion, neither Enoch, nor Elijah ascended into heaven as your web page alludes.

For Enoch the Bible says he was 'taken away by God', but it doesn't say where to.
For Elijah, it is stated that he was taken up to heaven by a whirlwind. However, I', sure you are aware that the Bible recognizes 3 heavens.
a) Our atmosphere
b) The universe
c) The throne room of God.

Since Yeshua (Jesus) clearly stated that no one had ever gone to heaven, Elijah must have remained within the 1st. heaven, as whirlwinds (tornadoes) clearly do not travel into space.

I have been an avid student of Bible prophecy for many years, but have never found an explanation to my question. Where are Enoch and Elijah????

I hope you will take the time to respond to my question... and offer a critique of my information. Shalom in the name of Yeshua

My reply

> neither Enoch, nor Elijah ascended into heaven as your web page alludes.

Old Testament saints went to Paradise, which was a compartment in the Earth until Christ took Paradise to Heaven the day of his resurrection. All the Old Testament saints are in the Heavenly Paradise now.

> However, I', sure you are aware that the Bible recognizes 3 heavens.
> a) Our atmosphere
> b) The universe
> c) The throne room of God.

This is not true. The first heaven is Mars. The second heaven is Jupiter. The third heaven is Saturn. The Lord's throne is in "heaven, the heaven of heavens" (Neh. 9:6; Psa. 11:4; II Chron. 6:18).

> Where are Enoch and Elijah????

In "the third heaven...paradise" (II Cor. 12:2,4).

Incoming Email

ARE You god ?, please leave dates& Months out of your web site, we don't Know when our Lord JESUS CHRIST, is coming back, we don't know the time or the hour , all we Know he is coming Back VERY SOON !.... , so don't make your self look a fool , or a False Prophet.. or some cult member..... You are not GOD, so leave out the Dates, we should live lives In love with Jesus as if he is Coming right NOW!..., I Love You to let you now this My Lovely Sister in Christ Jesus.... I am 20 years old, and I have seen Demons Run out of Peoples Bodies, and I have also Prayed for People across the Seas, and all of my prayers Have Been answered, so I do have a Wonderful Loving Relationship with Jesus.

Some People don't believe that what The Holy Spirit does through Benny Hinn, is real, in actuality all of us who have allowed The Holy Spirit to Fill us , can receive The Holy Spirit Upon us, Just as Benny Hinn Has, and You can too.

I always thought Benny Hinn was some Fake person , until the same thing Happened to me one day and I did not touch anyone , I just blew a Breath of Air , and , a Woman Passed out... I don't want to Boast, or to Brag, I just want you to know , That that I do have, Fruits Of the Spirit, and I Love You....Sister.

If you don't want to respond that's ok with me Lovely Sister, But I would Like you to take the Dates off , your site, if you Just do that , that will be good for your Response to me.... I love you.... Prayer IS POWERFUL!!!! and you will be on my Prayers, as the Holy Spirit Leads me to Pray for your and your Family, just to let you know I have leaded up to two People, on the Net and many more off the Net to Wonderful Jesus...

My reply

No can do. The Lord put a rectangle of light on Jeremiah 50:2. It said to publish and conceal not. I must obey the Lord and not you.

Incoming Email

Again, End of the age was awesome! It was well written and received! We have pasted it along to as many family and friends as possible! We pray that Jesus will return soon (May '98), to set this world in correct order! Question; The Bible tells us that Works along can NOT get us into heaven! How can we learn to be humble, serving, etc. without works! We realized that the more a person loves God/Jesus, the more you want to do! Giving tithes in the wrong sense can also be seen as works; but we should give to help support our ministries! I know that God knows my heart, but sometimes I feel that the things I do are all Works, just to earn His favor! I want to be a sincere Christian!

Heaven found was a great book also! I have loaned it to a friend! I really like the way both books brought Biblicial facts and knowledge to gether better than I ever could have explained what I knew to anyone! Thank you for your years of studying and please continue to keep putting forth the word! God Bless You

My reply

Glad you liked the books.

We cannot work for salvation, but we work for rewards. To gain them, we should be filled with agape love (i.e., the Holy Spirit) when we work. Otherwise we are "as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal" (I Cor. 13:1). Without love, "though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be profiteth me nothing" (I Cor. 13:3).

Remember how Jeremiah was pulled up out of the pit wherein was no water, only mire? He had cords under his arms. The cords suggest Christ's righteousness. But what did he have wrapped around the cords? rotten rags. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags compared to Christ's righteousness, but it looks like Jeremiah needed the rotten rags to be pulled out of the pit so he could picture what we need to do to be sure we are caught up in the Rapture.

Rev. 19:7,8 says, "the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath MADE HERSELF READY (as Esther did). And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness (lit. righteousnesses) of saints." This covers both Christ's righteousness and our righteous acts.

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© 1997 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 4-3-98