Pro and Con 813

Posted 10-3-01

"Monumental Moslem Construction Work Damages South Temple Wall and Drives Cracks in Al Aqsa Mosque Walls"

Note: this reminds me of Isa. 30:13: "Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant."

Incoming email with my interspersed comments marked ***

Re: Babylon The Great
Trust that you and Ed are healthy and well.

***I'm ok. Ed is too, but weaker. In spite of his exercising, he can barely get out of his recliner or the car.

My, but things are really happening now !

***Yes, I don't hear very many deny that we are in the end times now.

Somehow, I never got so far as to discuss this issue with you in the past, and when the tragic sequence of events happened on 11 Sept., maybe it's become time for us to compare notes. I read your P&C's with great interest, and must say, if I just had 10% of the knowldege of scripture you have, I will consider myself truly blessed !

***Thanks for your kind words.

I have studied your thoughts around Babylon at length, and agree but also disagree. One night, about four years ago, I started reading Rev. 17. The specific translation read " The woman who lives at the water"(opposed to KJV "I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters")

And when I read that, I had a similar experience to the one you had, when the beam of light highlighted a piece of scripture. But in my case, something really stirred in me, and I immediately saw a vision of the Statue of Liberty (who is a woman of course, and the most famous NY landmark)

I was rather surprised when I read further that "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." knowing full well that the U.N. headquarters are situated in New York ! It is common knowledge that the American President yields great power in this organisation.

***I think the UN headquarters will be moved to Babylon, Iraq, maybe as a consequence of the World Trade Center towers falling in New York. It will take a year to clean up the trash and get ready to rebuild. In the meantime, New York does not have enough office space. It would be easier to rebuild large enough to house the UN, UR and WTC in Babylon.

***In Scripture, a woman is used as a symbol of a religious group, and the only religious group that claims higher authority than kings of the Earth is the Roman Catholic Church. That is why some people were against the Roman Catholic JFK being elected as President of the US.

***Zech. 5 tells us that the world church will be moved to the land of Shinar. That is where the Tower of Babel was started. It is where it will be finished. Gen. 11:2-4 says, "they found a plain in the land of SHINAR; and they dwelt there. And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a TOWER."

***Christians are called wheat. In Zech. 5:5-11, we see "an ephah (largest wheat measure) that goeth forth (is being moved)...This is their resemblance through ALL THE EARTH" (a World Church). A "woman (religious group) sitteth in the midst of the ephah (World Church). Wickedness is cast in with her, and two women (religious groups) fly the ephah (World Church) to a new location. "To build it an house in the land of SHINAR: AND IT SHALL BE ESTABLISHED, AND SET THERE UPON HER OWN BASE" (the Tower of Babel).

"The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues." Fairly descriptive of New York's demographic make-up.

***There isn't enough room in New York to build the capital of the world. Other nations would not like it being here, either. That would put too much power in one place.

Also " having seven heads and ten horns." I later gathered that the G7 (an organisation representing the world's seven most powerful nations) has it's headquarters in N.Y. as well

***The 7 heads are the leaders of Babel, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, Ecclesiastic Rome, and Babylon III.

Further study revealed that "And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet" could possibly be a reference to the North Atlantic Free Trade Organisation's dividing of the entire globe into ten economic zones .

***Gorbachev was given the task of dividing the world into ten regions after he suggested it. They are already being consolidated. I think those 10 kings will rule with the Pope when he is given power over "all kindreds, and tongues, and nations" (Rev. 13:7) during the first 1260 days of the Tribulation.

In Rev 18 "And he (the Angel) cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies." New York, as amazing place as it is, could be viewed by many as the Capitol of greedy, worldly , Sinful Man. Why else would it be refered to as "The Big Apple" ?

Doesn't the prophecy in Rev 18 : 8 fit the events on 11 September? "8 Therefore shall her plagues come in one day, death, and mourning, and famine; and she shall be utterly burned with fire: for strong [is] the Lord God who judgeth her. 9. And the kings of the earth, who have committed fornication and lived deliciously with her, shall bewail her, and lament for her, when they shall see the smoke of her burning, 10 Standing afar off for the fear of her torment, saying, Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! for in one hour is thy judgment come."

***What happened Sept. 11, 2001 is a small picture of what I think will happen when the asteroid destroys Babylon on Sept. 13, 2007. There were 2 planes that hit the WTC towers, and there are 2 pieces of the asteroid that will impact Earth. One, the "great mountain burning with fire" of Rev. 8:8, will hit the Mediterranean Sea (Zeph. 2:4,5) to wipe out Gog's army that is attacking Israel. The other, the "star (aster) from heaven, burning" of Rev. 8:10, will wipe out Babylon in the land of Shinar, not US. At that time, fire will be on the land of Magog, Russia. Egypt will be hurt so badly, no one will live there for the next 40 years. Eze. 29:11 says, "No foot of man shall pass through it, nor foot of beast shall pass through it, neither shall it be inhabited forty years." That action takes place in the middle east, not in America.

It is also interesting to note that the Wall Street Stock Exchange, without any doubt, the most important on the Globe, also closed for a week, so that no trade could take place "And the merchants of the earth shall weep and mourn over her; for no man buyeth their merchandise any more" Need we remind ourselves that it was indeed the World Trade Centre that was destroyed ?

When Wall Street opened up, it's interesting to note that the value of stock dropped by SEVEN PERCENT on that first day !

I have been expecting a catastrophic event in New York for the past four years, but didn't expect it to happen in the way that it did (I expected a meteorite or Nuclear explosion & and total destruction) As I mentioned earlier, I have been following your writings on the subject of Babylon, but somehow, I just cannot imagine ancient Babylon (in Iraq) becoming the Capitol of the world, nor that the merchants of the earth ", shall stand afar off for the fear of her torment, weeping and wailing," (Most businessmen in the world couldn't care what happens to Iraq!)

***It isn't Iraq they weep over. It is the capital of the world. It will be the most costly city ever built, and it will be destroyed totally by the asteroid of Rev. 8:10.

Would really value your comments, and thoughts on this issue. Keep up the good work, and God Bless you. Agape

Incoming e-mail

...someone asked you about the koran, there is an on-line version. Hope this is of some assistance. God Bless.

Incoming email

Subject: RE: Revelation 1:7
Dear Sister in the Faith "once delivered unto the Saints:" In your chronology of end-time events, when do you see Revelation 1:7 happening? Stay Faithful

My reply

I am faithful. Every eye shall see Christ at the Second Advent. Let me see if I can clear away some of the haze.

Right from the first, "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" refers to the Pre-Trib Rapture. That is when he will be revealed to us. In Rev. 1:3, we find out that it is "at hand." It is "at hand" again in 22:10. Jesus signs off with, "Surely I come quickly." This book is like the script for a miracle play. The setting is when the Rapture is about to take place. From the Rapture, we are also told what comes "hereafter" (Rev. 4:1).

As our movie directors do, Christ started this play with an Introduction and a Preview of coming events. Since John is the narrator, he does the Introduction in 1:4-7, He says, "John to the seven churches which are in Asia (muddy, i.e., on Earth): Grace be unto you, and peace, from him (God, who is "in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself," II Cor. 5:19) which is (at the Rapture), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent); and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne; And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth (including the King of Israel). And hath (at the Rapture) made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen."

Rev. 1:7 says, "Behold he (Christ, both God and man) cometh with clouds (at the Rapture and the Second Advent); and every eye shall (in the future) see him (at the Second Advent), and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen" (end of John's introduction).

Next, Jesus speaks and clears up any doubt as to who he really is. Rev. 1:8 says, "I am Alpha (LORD of the Old Testament) AND Omega (Lord of the New Testament), the beginning (YHVH king of Israel) AND the ending (YHVH of hosts, the Redeemer, Isa. 44:6), saith the Lord, which is (at the Rapture), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), the ALMIGHTY."

Then the Preview begins with John being caught up to Heaven at the Rapture in v. 10. He sees Christ in Heaven with the 7 churches around him. Christ still has the star performers in his hand in v. 16, for he has just caught them up. Agape

Incoming email

From: Finland
Re: More about David Wilkerson's books Just heard some parts of David Wilkerson's book "Set The Trumpet to Thy Mouth" written 1985. There is quite correct description of melting skyscrapers of WTC + much else. I have not read the book. Would be quite interesting? Agape

My reply

I don't know. I haven't read it. The only book of his that I read was his first one. Maybe someone else can help us out here. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Quickly
We had the most beautiful & sobering sermon in church last night. The minister dealt with the passage in Leviticus 9:18 to 10:14 (NIV). He brought home the fact that our God is an awesome and HOLY God and that He expects us to obey His commands, offering sacrifices deemed pleasing in His sight, blessed by His fire or suffer the consequences. Can you imagine how Aaron felt, not being able to mourn the death of Nadab and Abihu?, but that Israel would mourn on his behalf, but Aaron, because he was cleansed & sanctified, had to continue his service in the tabernacle to the glory of a living G-D and not mourn their death.

It is a sobering thought to realise that we are now God's temple & that what we offer to God must be Holy and pleasing in His sight. 2 Cor 2:14-16:- .....(15) for we are to God the aroma of CHRIST among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. (16) To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task?

That verse [Re: "How Could That Possibly Happen?" I know I read somewhere in the Bible that once the end times started it would go very quickly. Do you know where that passage is?] - she may be referring to Habbakuk 2:3 ...For the revelation awaits an appointed time; it speaks of the end and will not prove false. Though it linger, wait for it; it will certainly come and will not delay.

Blessings to you and Ed from above and to all fellow children of Christ. Agape

My reply

Thanks for making me look at Habakkuk 2 again. Habakkuk was watching, and the Lord gave him a vision of the end time, the Tribulation, one of the things we are watching develop.

Hab. 2-5 says, "the LORD answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it. For the vision is yet for an appointed time (mowed, fixed time, season or festival), but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry (mahahh, delay), wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry (achar, remain behind). Behold, his (the Tribulation Pope's) soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith (Christianity). Yea also, because he (the Pope, the Beast) transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home (the present Pope has made 95 trips, more than any other Pope), who enlargeth his desire as hell (Satan), and is as death (the False Prophet, Rev. 6:8), and cannot be satisfied, but GATHERETH UNTO HIM ALL NATIONS (THE UNITED NATIONS), AND HEAPETH UNTO HIM ALL PEOPLE (THE UNITED RELIGIONS)." Rev. 13:7 says of the Beast, "POWER WAS GIVEN HIM OVER ALL KINDREDS, AND TONGUES, AND NATIONS." Rev. 11:4 says, they worshipped the beast."

Hab. 2:6 says, "Woe to him (probably the False Prophet) that INCREASETH THAT WHICH IS NOT HIS (steals the harlot church of Babylon)! how long? and to him (Satan) that ladeth himself with thick clay (inhabits the body of the False Prophet)!"

This reminds me of Zech. 5:3,4: "Then said he unto me, This is the curse (a binary asteroid, pictured by the 2 stone tablets with the 10 commandments on them) that goeth forth (orbits) over the face of the whole earth: for every one that STEALETH (i.e., the False Prophet) shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that SWEARETH (i.e., the Beast) shall be cut off as on that side according to it. I will bring it (the curse) forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the THIEF (the False Prophet), and into the house of him that SWEARETH falsely by my name (the Pope, who claims infallibility): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

Hab. 2:12 says, "Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and stablisheth a city (Babylon) by iniquity!" Zech. 5:6-11 describes the moving of the ephah (largest wheat measure, i.e., the world church) to Babylon in the land of Shinar. "This is their resemblance through all the earth...Whither do these bear the ephah? And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base" (the Tower of Babel, Gen. 11:2).

Think about the following possibility. Hab. 2:12 says, "Woe to him that buildeth a town with blood, and stablisheth a city (Babylon) by iniquity!" It seems possible that the World Trade Center towers falling (with "blood" and "iniquity") in New York may turn out be one reason the UN and UR headquarters will be built in literal Babylon in Iraq. We are being told it will take a year just to clean away all the debris so rebuilding could start. As long as they need to be rebuilt, because of a dire lack of that much office space in New York now, why not rebuild them large enough to house the UN, UR and WTC in the new capital of the world, Babylon. This might be the way the terrorist tendencies of Saddam Hussein, and others, could be held in check. All nations would have the decision to make war taken from them and given to the UN. The Pope and 10 subordinate kings over the 10 regions the world has been divided into would rule the first 1260 days. In Rev. 13:3,4, people of "all the world" will say, "Who is like unto the beast (the Pope)? who is able to make war with him?" They probably think no one is able to make war with him. In about the 2nd year of the Tribulation, "power was given to him (the Pope) that sat thereon (on the red horse) to take peace from the earth." Like a wet bar of soap, the hoped for peace slips away again. Jer 8:11 says, "For they have healed the hurt of the daughter of my people (Israel) slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace." Isa 30:25 says, "there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters (because of the asteroid impacts) in the day of the great slaughter (Day of God's Wrath), when the towers fall." Agape

Incoming email

Re: Check out Note Note Marilyn this is from titled, THE TWO PILLARS OF SOLOMON'S TEMPLE AND THE TWO TOWERS OF THE WORLD TRADE CENTER. Please what are your thoughts especially regarding his last couple of paragraphs.

My reply

It is hard to tell what you mean by the last 2 paragraphs. It all runs together without much of a break. I'll comment on a few things he said.

> > If this is the year of the confirmation of the covenant, we are ready.

That is the only thing this Jewish man who does not know the Messiah said that I was very interested in. This very well may be the year. He says "we are ready." For what? peace? Jer. 6:14 says, "They have healed also the hurt of the daughter of my people slightly, saying, Peace, peace; when there is no peace."

> > The two pillars, which stood in front of Solomonís Temple, were named Boaz and Jachin: Base and Fulcrum. > > Their architects, however, knew that they were an integral part of the sand hydraulic elevator system, designed to hide Israelís Temple treasures at the time of siege. Solomonís temple was built by stone masonís who were directed by Godís wisdom and revelation. Perched on the top-heavy pillars of Solomonís Temple, 5 cubit solid brass capitals served as the force to activate the elevator system that opened the subterranean passage through which the Temple treasures could be secreted without detection. Once activated, the mechanism could not be stopped or reversed. At the end of their cycle the capitals collapsed to 3 cubits indicating an event had transpired ≠ undetected by the masses.

I do wonder how the capitals managed to refrain from activating this elevator system the minute they were placed atop the pillars. I haven't run across Rood's meanings for these pillars before, or this use for them. The list of meanings of proper names in the back of my Scofield Bible says that Boaz and Jachin mean strength and stability. Unger has for Jachin, he (God) establishes, and for Boaz, fleetness. Another list of meanings of names that came out of an old Bible says for Boaz, in strength, and for Jachin, he that strengthens and makes steadfast. Hitchcock's Bible Names has for Boaz, in strength, and for Jachin, makes steadfast."

Rev. 3:12 says, "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out." The 2 pillars just might represent the 2 Raptures, which Rood doesn't believe in. Below is what he said about a Rapture. He doesn't care for our "ostentatiously decadent religious systems." He seems to think America is "modern Babylon" to boot.

> > The towers have served their purpose and will, like Solomonís pillars, be removed as scrap metal. Time will tell how much destruction will be levied upon America, before Americans repent for their disobedience. Ancient Babylon will again field the army that will plunder the empty temple of modern Babylonís military, economic, political, ostentatiously decadent religious systems. Those who built the modern temple saw the siege wall being built long ago. Their "all seeing" master does not want the children of darkness to be unaware of the times and seasons of the Day of YHWH. They were listening to their lord and were doing his bidding, while those who call Jesus Lord have been laying up their treasures in thisLuciferous temple of mammonís construction. Oblivious to the true Godís Times and Seasonís, those who pride themselves on being the children of Light have secured their sleeping masks hoping to awake at the euphoric dawn of a fictional pre-tribulation rapture.

He sounds like he will wake up too late to be a part of the Pre-Trib Rapture, if then. He is flying to different places to lecture people too. Agape

Incoming email

Re: Possible Rapture Clues. Every new day is one day closer to the glorious appearing of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. I hope all is well with you.

Please read the following in Matthew 17:1-8: And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother,and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart, And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him. And when the disciples heard it, they fell on their face, and were sore afraid. And Jesus came and touched them, and said, Arise, and be not afraid. And when they had lifted up their eyes, they saw no man, save Jesus only.

I noticed that the time of the transfiguration may have been at the time of the feast of tabernacles. This could be why Peter offered to make three tabernacles. Going up to an high mountain apart could signify heaven. a bright cloud overshadowing them could relate to Jesus meeting us in the clouds. Moses and Elijah are thought to be the two witnesses and will return to earth as the tribulation begins. Both six and eight days are mentioned in scripture referring to the transfiguration. Both days are mentioned regarding this feast. Luke 9:27-29 And it came to pass about an eight days after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray.

Here is additional information from Greg Killian's website NTRODUCTION: ... In Christ

My reply

I think Tabernacles is possible, also Cheshvan 17 and 27, when Noah went into the Ark and the Lord closed the door and then when he came out of the Ark...

It does look like the Transfiguration was at Tabernacles. Jesus' "raiment became shining, exceeding white as snow; so as no fuller on earth can white them" (Mark 9:3). Since his clothing was whiter than it could have been on Earth, it must represent when he is in Heaven. Christ also looked different, maybe something like in the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1:14,15. That is a view of him in Heaven right after the Rapture.

Things seem to be falling into place rapidly now. Even so, I was shocked that the Pope kissed the Koran. If I remember right, he also took the sign of Shiva. Brrrrr. Isa. 9:15 says, "The ancient and honourable, he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he is the tail."

Do you know what Eze. 8:17 means about the branch when it says, "they have filled the land with violence, and have returned to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose."

...Mt. 17:6-9 says that the Transfiguration was a "vision". I think its setting was probably Heaven at the time of the Rapture. Note that JESUS CAME and touched them, and said, ARISE, and be not afraid." When the disciples heard the voice out of the cloud, "they fell on their face." In the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1:17, John said, "when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead." After the Rapture of Rev. 4:1, the "elders fell down before the Lamb" (Rev. 5:8). That includes Peter, James and John.

Mar 9:2-4 says, "after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and JOHN, and leadeth them up (anaphero, to take up) into an high mountain APART (kata, beyond; i.e., a separate planet, Heaven) by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. And his raiment became shining, exceeding WHITE AS SNOW; so as no fuller on earth can white them. And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus."

At the Rapture, Peter, James, and John, 3 of the 24 elders, will be caught up to Heaven and be seated on their thrones (Rev. 4:4). In the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1:10-16, JOHN said of Jesus, "His head and his hairs were white like wool, as WHITE AS SNOW; and his eyes were as a flame of fire." WHITE AS SNOW is a clue that ties these accounts together. In Rev. 4:1-4, the thrones are in Heaven. In Mark 9:3, we find "WHITE AS SNOW; SO AS NO FULLER ON EARTH CAN WHITE THEM." This shows that this scene represents Heaven, where His raiment can be this white.

Since Peter said, "let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias, the Transfiguration may have been just before Tishri 15, which is Oct. 2 in 2001. If this is a clue to when the Rapture might take place, we need to think about Mark 9:2, "AFTER SIX DAYS...a voice came out of the cloud" (Mark 9:2,7). If we take "hemera" as indicating years, which it can mean, the Rapture might take place AFTER the 6th year following the signing of the Oslo Accords, Sept. 13, 1994. That would be AFTER Sept. 13, 2000. The Accords were ratified 3 days later in Israel, on Tishri 1, 5754. Six years later was Tishri 1, 5760.

There is another clue that could point to the Rapture in the Transfiguration account in Mt. 17:7. It says, "JESUS CAME and touched them, AND SAID, ARISE and be not afraid." In Luke 9:28, we find "ABOUT AN EIGHT DAYS after these sayings, he took Peter and John and James, and went up into a mountain to pray." Eight years after Tishri 1, 5754 was Tishri 1, 5762 (our Sept. 18, 2001). If about 8 years is an indication of when the Rapture might happen, it will be soon.

I think we have 7 good years and 7 bad years, as when Joseph was in Egypt, after Tishri 1, 5754, when the Oslo Accords were ratified. The bad years would start Tishri 1, 5761 (Sept. 30, 2000), and end with Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). They sure seem to have started then, for Israel has suffered violent attacks ever since Sept. 26, 2000. The felling of the WTC twin towers was 9-11-2001 (Elul 23, 5761), still in that first bad year. That marked 5761 as the 1st of the 7 bad years too.

This could also tie in with the parable of the barren fig tree in Luke 13:6-9. The last year in that parable is a year during which Israel is digged about and dunged. I think that fits this year very well. Their grace years seem to be about over. If they don't repent and turn to the Lord now, it looks like they will have to endure the Tribulation. The sand in the hourglass is dwindling away.

Bob Ware gave me the date of the beginning of the 1st year in the 19-year Jewish cycle, 10-2-1997. I figured the Jewish Leap Years again. The Leap Years are years 3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17 and 19. They would be 5760 (1999/2000), 5763 (2002/2003), 5765 (2004/2005), 5768 (2007/2008), 5771 (2010/2011), 5774 (2013/2014), and 5776 (2015/2016). One of those years should be the year of the Second Advent, because there has to be 7 months (Eze. 39:12,13) between Tishri 1 (Day of God's Wrath) and Nisan 1 (Second Advent). I still think 5768 (2007/2008) is the one. It looks like we are running out of time. The Sabbatic Years are: 5761, 5768, and 5775. Only one of these is also a Leap Year, 5768. So far, I can't see how the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent could come in any other year. The Sign of the End of the Age in I967 + 40 = 2007 too. Agape

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