Pro and Con 818

Posted 10-13-01

Incoming email

Re: Sign: Yes!!!!
We all were waiting for a sign, and we sure got one. Not just a subtle sign but a world tragedy...A wake up call is what this is. If you do not know Jesus Christ, now would be a good time to get acquainted. I am not saying this to you of course, just in general. I will be praying for all those people who were hurt by this. God is right on time. Brother in Christ. Agape

My reply

Yes. we got one. It's a bigger 911 than I expected. Two days later, on Sept. 13, 2001, there was a terrible thunderstorm with black skies and torrents of water pouring down. Isa. 30:25 says, "there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in THE DAY (Sept. 13) of the great slaughter, WHEN THE TOWERS FALL." I think the towers in Babylon will fall on Sept. 13, 2007. That will be a day of "thick darkness" (Joel 2:3), water, and falling towers everywhere. Every wall will fall, worldwide (Eze. 38:20). The cities of the nations will be in shambles. Rev. 16:19 says, "and THE CITIES OF THE NATIONS FELL." Now we have a graphic picture in our heads of how quickly this can happen. Babylon will fall in one hour. Agape

Incoming email

From: another in Finland
This might be a prelude to Apocalyptic events. Some follow up tragedies will take place in Israel.

This also shows that it is important to monitor carefully who travels and who moves to a country. And that it is harmful that strangers that have different religion and habits are allowed to move in. May God bless America and Israel. Agape

My reply

Yes, horrible, and a sign of what will happen to all the cities of the world on the Day of God's Wrath (Eze. 38:20).

> > This also shows that it is important to monitor carefully who travels and who moves to a country. And that it is harmful that strangers that have different religion and habits are allowed to move in.

This nation is a melting pot of all peoples and religions. I don't see that as being changed. Passport monitoring is wise, but it still is hard to know which one to refuse entry.

I keep thinking that I sure wouldn't want to be in their shoes at the Judgment. God will avenge, and that fairly soon. Agape

Incoming email

ok i found it. the URL is
what they specifically said about the 13 weeks was "The Illuminist Plan calls for the Third World War to last precisely 13 weeks, or 91 days. Have we just witnessed the beginning of this 13-week period? Only time will tell, and the Rapture of the Church may occur in the middle of it." This was an article from Sept. 14. Me personally, I think the 13 weeks doesn't necessarily have to comprise of all war alone but, also the events that we have seen between Sept. 18 and thru Dec. 19

Incoming email

Re: 13 weeks between 9-11-01 and 12-19-01

My reply

Thanks. I finally got around to counting the exact number of weeks, starting with Tue. 9-11-01. Thirteen weeks end Tue. Dec. 10. That is 8 days before Wed. Dec. 19, which I think will be 2300 days before the Second Advent (Apr. 6, 2008/Nisan 1, 5768).

Incoming email

Re: P & C 817
You wrote:
> > Maybe that satanic looking face in the smoke was really there, as in a published photo.

I saw that satanic face in the smoke as I was watching live coverage... it was indeed real. In Christ

My reply

Thanks so much. I didn't know if it was real or not. I did see some faces as I watched the smoke billow out, but I didn't see this one. Agape

My outgoing e-mail

...Do you remember if it stormed in the daytime in New York on Sept. 13, or just that night? The Oslo Accords were signed on Sept. 13, 1993, and I expect the day of thick darkness on Sept. 13, 2007. The 7 good years and the 7 bad years fit between those dates.

Something else ties the fall of the WTC towers in with Scripture--all that downpouring water in the storm on the 13th. Isa. 30:25 says, "And there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall." The events of Sept. 11 and 13 seem to be shadows of things to come. Agape

Incoming email


Many believe America has become a terrorist target because it has befriended the nation of Israel. That could be so. The mass media often seems sympathetic to the claims of the Palestinians who claim the right to Jerusalem as their capital and to Israel as their land.

The following are some conveniently overlooked facts in the current Middle East situation, which was compiled by a Christian University Professor....What does the following evidence prove to you?

1. Nationhood and Jerusalem. Israel became a nation in 1312 B.C.E., two thousand years before the rise of Islam.

2. Arab refugees in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern State of Israel.

3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 B.C.E. the Jews have had dominion over the land for one thousand years with a continuous presence in the land for the past 3,300 years.

4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 C.E. lasted no more than 22 years.

5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital, and Arab leaders did not come to visit.

6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem is not mentioned once in the Koran.

7. King David founded the city of Jerusalem. Mohammed never came to Jerusalem.

8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs toward Jerusalem.

Note: This reminds me of Ezeiel's vision in 8:16. It says, "he brought me into the inner court of the LORD's house, and, behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they worshipped the sun toward the east." V. 18 says, "Therefore will I also deal in fury."

9. Arab and Jewish Refugees: In 1948 the Arab refugees were encouraged to leave Israel by Arab leaders promising to purge the land of Jews. Sixty-eight percent left without ever seeing an Israeli soldier.

10. The Jewish refugees were forced to flee from Arab lands due to Arab brutality, persecution and pogroms.

11. The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 is estimated to be around 630,000. The number of Jewish refugees from Arab lands is estimated to be the same.

12. Arab refugees were INTENTIONALLY not absorbed or integrated into the Arab lands to which they fled, despite the vast Arab territory. Out of the 100,000,000 refugees since World War II, theirs is the only refugee group in the world that has never been absorbed or integrated into their own peoples' lands. Jewish refugees were completely absorbed into Israel, a country no larger than the state of New Jersey.

13. The Arab - Israeli Conflict: The Arabs are represented by eight separate nations, not including the Palestinians. There is only one Jewish nation. The Arab nations initiated all five wars and lost. Israel defended itself each time and won.

14. The PLO's Charter still calls for the destruction of the State of Israel. Israel has given the Palestinians most of the West Bank land, autonomy under the Palestinian Authority, and has supplied them with weapons.

15. Under Jordanian rule, Jewish holy sites were desecrated and the Jews were denied access to places of worship. Under Israeli rule, all Muslim and Christian sites have been preserved and made accessible to people of all faiths.

16. The U.N. Record on Israel and the Arabs: of the 175 Security Council resolutions passed before 1990, 97 were directed against Israel.

17. Of the 690 General Assembly resolutions voted on before 1990, 429 were directed against Israel.

18. The U.N. was silent when 58 Jerusalem Synagogues were destroyed by the Jordanians.

19. The U.N. was silent whilst the Jordanians systematically desecrated the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives.

20. The U.N. was silent while the Jordanians enforced an apartheid- like policy of preventing Jews from visiting the Temple Mount and the Western Wall.

These are incredible times.

Incoming email

Enclosed are some thoughts on the recurrence of the number "11" and the meaning of eleven in scripture according to Bullinger's study. Enclosed also is the recurrence of the 17 year cycles in our history and war which was written by Gordon Lindsay (Christ for the Nations). It's not perfect. There are some gaps. But the cycle maintains the approximate 17-year period even when it skips.

When the US forced Israel to enter into a peace treaty w/ Israel via the Camp David Accords and the Oslo Agreement I knew that we were in for it. We twisted their arm and forced them to give up land for peace. We forced them to make a treat w/ terrorist. Arafat is the scum of the earth. When he and his ilk were in Lebanon there were 100,000 young girls and women who were raped by his men. Israel is a land full of atheist and agnostics but God still has very stern warnings for those who touch her. It is ironic that Colin Powell was telling Israel a few weeks ago not to overreact to the terrorist bombs. Now the shoe is on the other foot.

> > One other point: there is abortion, homosexuality etc. in the land and God does judge that. But the church should take a long hard look at itself. In many ways we are not much different than the culture we live in. We should be a preserving force, salt, but we appear to have lost our salt.

Some Thoughts on September 11, 2001 and the days following...

It is interesting how number 11 repeats with this terrorist activity. This reminds me of the repetition of the number 13 during the Apollo 13 moon shot. Numbers in scripture are not accidental but have spiritual significance. Eleven in the Bible denotes disorder, disorganization. (See notes below from E. W. Bullinger.) Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT) letters have numerical values. Ivan Panin proved that the entire Bible has such numerical intricacy that is impossible for man to duplicate it even with today's computers. It is the Divine signature on the Book that is impossible to forge. This repetition of elevens and 17 year cycle (see below) may very well be a sobering Divine message for what awaits the U.S.A. in the months and years ahead. Given the patterns. Stay tuned.
The date of the attack: 9/11 - 9 + 1 + 1 = 11
September 11th is the 254th day of the year: 2 + 5 + 4 = 11
After September 11th there are 111 days left to the end of the year.
119 is the area code to Iraq/Iran. 1 + 1 + 9 = 11
Twin Towers - standing side by side, looks like the number 11
The first plane to hit the towers was Flight 11
State of New York - The 11th State added to the Union New York City - 11 Letters
Afghanistan - 11 Letters
The Pentagon - 11 Letters
The date of the Pentagon ground-breaking - 9/11/41
Ramzi Yousef - 11 Letters (convicted of orchestrating the attack on the WTC in 1993)
Flight 11 - 92 on board - 9 + 2 = 11
Flight 77 - 65 on board - 6 + 5 = 11

Number in Scripture
Its Supernatural Design and Spiritual Significance
E. W. Bullinger
If ten is the number which marks the perfection of Divine order, then eleven is an addition to it, subversive of and undoing that order. If twelve is the number which marks the perfection of Divine government, then eleven falls short of it. So that whether we regard it as being 10 + 1, or 12 - 1, it is the number which marks, disorder, disorganization, imperfection, and disintegration.

There is not much concerning it in the Word of God, but what there is significant, especially as a factor.

were eleven in number (Gen 36:40-43), and Edom, though closely related to Israel, was different from it in order and government, while the bitterest hatred existed between them. The word for "Duke" is a multiple of 13.
told of the disintegration and disorganization in Jacob's family, which made it possible for it to be said "one is not."
was a journey of eleven days (Deut 1:2). One more day would have carried them to the complete administration of all those wonderful laws which God had given them.
have for their gematria the number 462, the factors of which are 11 and 42; both significant of the disorder in Eli's house, and of disintegration in Israel.
when Nebuchadnezzar came up and began his disintegrating work on Jerusalem (2 Kings 23:36, 34:1; 2 Chron 36:5,6).
when Nebuchadnezzar completed the work by putting an end to Israel's rule in Jerusalem (2 Chron 36:11; Jer 52:1), for "in the eleventh year the city was broken up" (Jer 39:2).
in which Ezekiel prophesied against Tyre (Eze 26:1) and against Egypt (30:20 and 31:1) was the eleventh year of Zedekiah, in which Jerusalem was broken up. And the threefold repetition of it is to impress us with the fact that Tyre and Egypt should be broken up, as Jerusalem had been.
witness of disintegration even amongst the Twelve (Acts 2:14, etc.); while
(Matt 20:6,9) is proverbial as being contrary alike both to what is right in order and arrangement.
was about 33 years (3 x 11), and then He was "cut off," and "we see not yet all things put under Him" (Dan 9:26; Heb 2:8).
occurs only twice, both referring to days of defective administration, marked by the fact that there was "no king"

Judges 16:5, the Philistine bribe which deprived Israel of their mighty judge and deliverer, Samson.
Judges 17:2, etc., connected with the introduction of idolatry into Israel, which brought with it trouble and disintegration; added to God's order and ordinances for them; and in the end caused the ruin and loss of all government.

Dan and Ephraim were the two offending tribes, for Micah, who made the image with the eleven hundred shekels, was an Ephraimite, and the tribe that stole it and his priest was the Tribe of Dan. Both are omitted from the tribes in Revelation 7, according to the declaration of Jehovah in Deuteronomy 29:18-20, that the "man, woman, family, or tribe" which should introduce idolatry into Israel, "the LORD shall BLOT OUT HIS NAME."

Cycles in History
Gordon Lindsay wrote a comprehensive study of cycles in history, God's Plan of the Ages as Revealed in Bible Chronology, to show that events are providentially determined. He presented evidence that, instead of occurring at seeming random times, historical events conformed to a recognizable mathematical design. His many examples, from current and past history, argued for a deliberate and consistent design in the order and course of history. This book was first published in 1971. The following is his amazing study on the 17-year cycles in American history. Although the cycles in most cases indicate war they cannot be used to absolutely predict it. War is not inevitable. We cannot put God in a box. There is always room for answer to prayer and for his grace in history. Nevertheless, the pattern is quite an eye-opener.

>From Lindsay's book:
One of the most startling cycles of history is that which has involved the United States of America every seventeen years in (the beginning, middle or end of) a war! The starting date of the cycles is 1732-1733 A.D. which marks the date of the founding of Georgia, the last the thirteen colonies. It also marks the birth of George Washington, father of our country. Now notice, with few exceptions, every seventeen years marks a war, when measured from the center of the period 1732-33 A.D.

Cycle 1. Begins 1732-33 A.D. The starting date of the war cycles. George Washington, father of his country, was born in 1732. Georgia, the last of the thirteen colonies, was founded in the year 1733.
Cycle 2. 1746. King George's War.
Cycle 3. 1763. French and Indian Wars. This war actually ended in 1763.
Cycle 4. 1780. Revolutionary War. (1775-1783)
Cycle 5. 1797. Short Naval War with France
Cycle 6. 1814. The war of 1812-15
Cycle 7. 1831. The Nullification Act. One of the exceptions. The nation came to the brink of civil war over the issue of states rights.
Cycle 8. 1847-8. The Mexican War. (1846-48)
Cycle 9. 1864-5. The Civil War. (1861-65)
Cycle 10. No war.
Cycle 11. 1898-9. The Spanish-American War.
Cycle 12. 1916-7. World War 1. (1914-18)
Cycle 13. 1932-33. No war. 43 nations sign the Briand-Kellogg Peace Pact outlawing war in 1929. Japan, a signatory to the treaty, invaded Manchuria and eventually drew the US into WWII.
Cycle 14. 1950-1. The Korean War
Cycle 15. 1965-8. The Vietnam War.
Cycle 16. 1984-85. No war. Desert Storm took place in 1991.
Cycle 17. 2001. President Bush says that we are going to war.

Seventeen is the number of the elect. Will the beginning of the 17th cycle witness the coming of the much-awaited Millennium? Could Cycle 17 be the last of 17-year war cycles for the USA?

Significance of Seventeen.
E.W. Bullinger's study on the number seventeen states that it is represents the perfection of spiritual order. (I leave it to the reader to look up his reasoning.) He gives a number of illustrations of series of 17 in the scriptures. Notice in the two examples below how the items listed can be associated with war.

Romans 8:35-39. The seven are put in the form of a question and the ten are given as an answer to it:
Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall
1. tribulation,
2. or distress,
3. or persecution,
4. or famine,
5. or nakedness,
6. or peril,
7. or sword,
as it is written, For Thy sake we are killed all day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him that loved us. For I am persuaded that,
8. neither death,
9. nor life,
10. nor angels,
11. nor principalities,
12. nor things present,
13. nor things to come,
14. nor powers,
15. nor height,
16. nor depth,
17. nor any other creature
shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Another illustration in Hebrews 12:18-24
Ye are not come
1. unto the mount that might be touched,
2. and that burned with fire,
3. nor unto blackness,
4. and darkness,
5. and tempest,
6. and the sound of a trumpet,
7. and the voice of words,
but ye are come
8. unto Mount Zion,
9. and unto the city of the living God,
10. the heavenly Jerusalem,
11. and to an innumerable company of angels,
12. to the general assembly,
13. and church of the firstborn which are written in heaven,
14. and to God the judge of all,
15. and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
16. and to Jesus the Mediator of a New Covenant,
17. and to the blood of sprinkling that speaketh better things than that of Abel

Incoming email

Is October 2, 2001, the Feast of Tabernacles this year? I read in the Farmers Almanac 2001 that the Harvest Moon is October 2nd this year. Last year two songs kept coming in my spirit. One was "Shine on Harvest Moon", and the other one was "When my Blue Moon Turns to Gold Again." It would be great if the Rapture happened that day, wouldn't it! Can't wait to see my loved ones again in that day, and also hope to meet you. Take care and God Bless You for all your hard work.

My reply

Oct. 2-9 was Tabernacles. Coming up is Cheshvan 17 and 27 (Nov. 3 and 13), when Noah entered the Ark and the Lord closed the door and when Noah exited the Ark. I don't know when the Rapture will be, but world events are fast bringing about things that should lead to the confirmation of the covenant and the beginning of the Tribulation. The nearer we get to that day, the nearer we get to the Rapture, which precedes the confirmation of the covenant.

No wonder Jesus told us to watch. There is a lot to watch. He is gradually ticking everything into place. Our escape can't be far away.

Luk 21:34-36 says, "take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it (the Tribulation) come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth (as in Rev. 3:10). Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

Rev. 3:10,11 (KJV) says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from (ek, out of) the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial), which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." The Darby translation says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, *I* also will keep thee out of the hour of trial, which is about to come upon the whole habitable world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

In Rev. 17:14, "they that are with him (Christ) are called, and chosen, and faithful." The Rapture has taken place. The Beast of Rev. 13:2-20, the 6th head of the great red dragon "is" probably in power (v. 10). The 10 subordinate kings "have received no kingdom as yet" (v. 12). We seem set to go. Agape

Incoming email

Re: The Necessary Tribulation Pope, Catholics in India
Who has affection for Judas who kissed Jesus to identify him to soldiers thereby betraying Jesus? Calling someone a "Judas" is an insult. I doubt anyone has affection for Judas; however we had to have a Judas. It was part of the grand design. We might even say thank goodness for a Judas so the plan was carried out and Christ became our savior.

As best we can tell, we have to have a tribulation pope. There is no need to rant and rail because the pope kisses the Koran or visits other religion's "holy" sites. If it is preordained it will happen. Trying to stop what must happen is folly and a waste of valuable time.

As you know, I am Catholic but the pope is not me. If he is the one to be over the world government and world religion - so be it. Our rapture depends on this person appearing. Thank goodness if it is this pope because we would not have long to wait.

Are all Catholics doomed because the pope may serve as the first beast? No, that is between the pope and God. Each of us is responsible for our choices. Should we beat the Catholic religion to death because the pope is about to screw up? No, that is his personal problem.

I have said before that the pope is very ill and someone else or elses may be calling the shots behind the scenes. This pope may be the beast to come, the figurehead, but others may be pulling the strings now and will then. He is so frail and ill it would take a boost from God or satan to make him fit enough to serve and maybe that will happen. I want a first beast and I don't care who it is. A first beast gets us out of this earth, so bring him on. Soon.

A fine priest I know was born and raised in India. I talked with him about that several years ago. He said there is a large segment of India that is Catholic and he was one of those. If there is discussion in that country, as I just read on your site, about India perhaps adopting a new/different religion, sort of a "state religion" do not be surprised if Catholicism is high on the list as they are already there in large numbers and other Christian denominations may not be.

I bring this up because you and some others tend to believe the Catholic religion is suspect. Every Catholic I know believes in Jesus Christ as their savior and the Catholic classes I went through taught Jesus Christ as savior and every Catholic service I have ever attended is worship to Jesus Christ.

You are prone to tell me about people you have come in contact with who found themselves in the Catholic religion and were not truly saved. I don't doubt that, am sure it happens and happens in other churches as well. There are millions of Catholics and each one has a personal Catholic experience. Some members are true believers and some aren't just as in other denominations.

You should not worry if India chooses to promote the Catholic religion for the core belief is belief in Jesus Christ as savior. Stop right there, that's it. I have said that to you many times and you want to toss Mary in there to muddy the waters. Mary is a swell person and, as you have said, will crown Jesus as King at the appointed time. A person wanting to join a Catholic church is asked if he/she has accepted Jesus as their savior. There is no asking if he/she believes Mary is his/her savior. Doesn't happen.

Did you know that when a Catholic dies a cross representing the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ is laid upon the casket? That is the final expression of belief in Jesus as savior. All the extraneous material of the Catholic religion is just that, extraneous. The only Catholic belief that matters is what the cross on that casket represents.

I can't imagine India is discussing a new religion but then I couldn't imagine the twin towers going down, either. I can believe, if it happens, that this is another part of the grand plan to draw all religions together. That certainly makes sense.

All Christian faiths have extraneous rituals that some of us find unacceptable and some have accepted homosexuals as ministers in the last few years, some accept abortions as personal choice and forget the child involved. That doesn't mean every church member is doomed because belief in Christ is personal and not a part of the church hierarchy and their mistakes.

I wish we could forget earthly church names and dogma and concentrate on belief in Jesus as our personal savior.

I want a first beast real soon and I am not choosy who he is. Love in Christ

My reply

> > I wish we could forget earthly church names and dogma and concentrate on belief in Jesus as our personal savior.

Me too. A Christian is one who has accepted Christ as his/her own personal Saviour. All believers are members of the spiritual Christian church, the ekklesia, the called out ones. Jesus didn't set up denominations. Man did.

Remember that Christ said of the church in Sardis, the Reformation, "I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die; for I have not found thy works perfect before God" (Rev. 3:1,2). In v. 4, he said, "Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy."

There is the key, overcomers are "worthy." What denomination they are affiliated with is not the key. It is personal worthiness. All in the church of Sardis are members of the church, the ekklesia, the called out ones. Yet only the worthy ones wearing white wedding garments will be caught up in the Bride group. A crucial verse we should pay attention to is I John 1:9. Speaking to believers, it says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." If we are free of "all unrighteousness," we are wearing white wedding garments and will walk with Christ in white, for we are worthy. Maranatha and agape

   Pro and Con 819   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at:

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110

© 1996-2001, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 10-13-01