Pro and Con 819

Posted 10-15-01

10-14-01 - "Tom Brokaw explained how the events of the day have produced a new order in the world, with former enemies like the United States and Russia now cooperating, with former terrorist states like Iran and Iraq suddenly cooperating with the global effort at terrorism. This symbolism means everything!! It literally means that tonight, October 11, 2001, the Illuminati declared the New World Order to be in effect! Mark this day on your calendars, for events subsequent to this will prove that the attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on September 11 was the first blow struck for the New World Order."
Tom Brokaw stood to the right of the screen, and behind him was a full-screen red/white/blue background, made fuzzy by filters. In the lower left of the screen in the background was a revolving picture montage of current events: Osama bin Laden, Muslim fighting men, Middle Eastern people, a copy of the Koran, and Americans.

In the foreground, displayed big and bold and in all capitols were the words: NEW WORLD ORDER...

This proclamation was made on an 11th, thus continuing the unbroken string of significant events related to this attack on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon containing bold signatures of '11' and multiples of eleven, or occult additions to get the number '11'.

My note

If we are here then, watch news on 11-11-01. That's Armistice/Veteran's Day. The Armistice was signed at 11 AM. Hope we are out of here by the day before 12-11-01.

Incoming email

I had a question on a paragraph in your latest P&C. It reads,
> > Eze. 7:2-10 tells us more about that single day of destruction. It says, "thus saith the Lord GOD unto the land of Israel; An end, THE END IS COME upon the four corners of the land. NOW IS THE END COME upon thee, and I will SEND MINE ANGER upon thee, and will JUDGE THEE (at the Judgment Seat of Christ) according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations....An evil, AN ONLY EVIL, behold, is come. An end is come, THE END IS COME: it watcheth for thee; behold, it is come. THE MORNING IS COME unto thee, O thou that dwellest in the land: THE TIME IS COME, THE DAY OF TROUBLE IS NEAR (i.e., 6 PM on the last day of this age is about here), and not the sounding again of the mountains. Now will I shortly (at noon on the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord, Zeph. 2:4,5) pour out my fury upon thee, and accomplish mine anger upon thee: and I WILL JUDGE THEE (at the Judgment Seat of Christ) according to thy ways, AND WILL RECOMPENSE THEE for all thine abominations...

In your quote of this passage you say twice that when it says "I will judge thee" that it is referring to the Judgment seat of Christ. Since this verse is addressed to Israel, ("thus saith the Lord God unto the land of Israel"), wouldn't this judgment have to be the Judgment of the Nations, the judgment of all those that live through the wrath of God. Is it not true that although Israel will all be saved, that they will go through the time of wrath supernaturally protected?

Is it not also true that the Judgment Seat of Christ is for the whole church, (the Bride and the Trib. Saints who have a heavenly inheritance), in the New Jerusalem on the Day of the Lord...while Israel, who have an earthly inheritance will remain on the earth on the Day of the Lord? So since this passage is clearly addressed to "the land of Israel," I don't see how that phrase, "I will Judge thee," could refer to the Judgment Seat of Christ. What are your thoughts? Your Brother in Jesus

My reply

> > In your quote of this passage you say twice that when it says "I will judge thee" that it is referring to the Judgment seat of Christ. Since this verse is addressed to Israel, ("thus saith the Lord God unto the land of Israel"), wouldn't this judgment have to be the Judgment of the Nations, the judgment of all those that live through the wrath of God.

The nations will attack Israel, so judgment also falls on the other nations.

As I understand it, the Judgment Seat of Christ takes place in Heaven before Christ returns. It is on the Feast of Trumpets, the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord, the day Christ will receive his kingdom. It is the Day of God's Wrath. Like Solomon, Christ will purge his kingdom right away. That is 7 months before the Second Advent (Eze. 39:12,13). The seven trumpet judgments hit Earth 7 months before Christ returns to Earth.

I think the Judgment of the Nations takes place on Earth after Christ returns. It is after the full 7 years are fulfilled. No trumpet judgments hit Earth that day. The sheep are divided from the goats, who are cast in everlasting fire.

Rev. 11:17,18 shows that all the saints will be rewarded at the same time that the unbelievers on Earth are rewarded for their unbelief. Therefore, that is the Judgment Seat of Christ. II Cor. 5:10 says, "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad." Rev. 11:17,18 says, "Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. "

Zech. 14 tells us of the 1st day of the millennial Day of the Lord. "Behold, the DAY OF THE LORD COMETH, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather ALL NATIONS against Jerusalem to battle...Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle." That is referring to Joshua's Long Day, for this is Jesus/Joshua's Long Day. More fell that day from the falling rocks than the Israelites killed.

Joshua 10:11 says, "as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword." In Jesus' Long Day, the asteroids fall. This is the day "the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof" (Isa. 24:1).

This is the same time Eze. 7 is talking about. The day the 6th seal is broken is the end of this Age of the Church. At that time, "the day of trouble is near" (v. 7). It begins at 6 PM, when the "ONLY EVIL, behold is come" (v. 5). Verse 12 says, "The time is come, the day draweth near: let not the buyer rejoice, nor the seller mourn: for wrath is upon all the multitude thereof." Agape

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Re: Dan9:27 "with many"
Could it be that from "Daniel 9:27: And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week", words "with many" might mean arab states? Shalom and Agape
Palestinian state is on way, says Peres
"..But the statements were initially greeted with caution in Israel, with a senior government official saying Israel would accept a Palestinian state only as part of a comprehensive peace deal with the Palestinians and its Arab neighbors.."

My reply

> > "Daniel 9:27: And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week", words "with many" might mean arab states?

It seems reasonable that it might include the Arab countries. However, I think it will turn out to be more than that. Since this is at the beginning of the Tribulation, the Beast of Rev. 13:2-10 will begin to rule. Power will be given "him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations" (Rev. 13:7). They "worshipped the beast" (Rev. 13:3). I think he will be the Tribulation Pope, head of both the UN (or OWG) and the UR (United Religions). Therefore, I expect the covenant to be confirmed by the one who will end up being the False Prophet and the UN. It seems that Arafat will get his Palestinian State and will also confirm the covenant. Israel may get permission to build a temple beside the Dome of the Rock. Moses and Elijah will probably instruct them on that.

We know they will part the land. Joe 3:2 says, "I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and PARTED MY LAND." I keep wondering what Dan. 5:28 means: "PERES; Thy kingdom is divided." That came at the end of Babylon II. Babylon I was the Tower of Babel. Babylon III is the False Prophet's, the Babylon of Rev. 18. It is strange that this man is in the forefront of the push for confirming a covenant that will establish a Palestinian State. Shalom and Agape

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From: Rich Pope. Re: Translations
Shalom, Ask any orthodox Jew which translation of the Tenach is the best and they will tell you Artscroll's Stone Edition. No orthodox Jew would ever tell you the JPS and the Old Testament portion of Dr. David Stern's Complete Jewish Bible is simply the older JPS version where the copywrite expired (see Dr. Stern's preface comments for this fact). Now in reference to the KJV, the preface of the RVS reads, "Yet the King James Version has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision of the English translation." And later in the preface it continues..."The King James Version of the New Testament was based upon a Greek text that was marred by mistakes, containing the accumulated errors of fourteen centuries of manuscript copying." I'm not wishing to get into a KJV ONLY debate...My original intent is to point out that in order to develop an accurate theology, one must have an accurate translation or else...what's the point?

My reply

I would like to read Artscroll's Stone Edition. Is it posted on the Internet? I am not a King James only supporter. I read every version I can get my hands on. I know that II Thess. 2:2 in the KJV has "day of Christ" when all major MSS have day of the Lord, which is obviously right. It isn't absolutely perfect. No translation can be as good as reading the original language editions. I can't read those, so I do the next best thing, I read every version I can, even reading backward under the Interlinear words. I read the whole Tanakh that way. However, of all the Bibles I have, I use the KJV the most. I have lost count of how many versions I have read, over 17, anyway. I look for differences that would make a difference, and find few. I just finished reading the Hebraic-Roots Version New Testament. > > the preface of the RVS reads, "Yet the King James Version has grave defects. By the middle of the nineteenth century, the development of Biblical studies and the discovery of many manuscripts more ancient than those upon which the King James Version was based, made it manifest that these defects are so many and so serious as to call for revision of the English translation." Considering the source, I don't believe that. Though straightening out some things that needed revision, overall the RSV is not as reliable as the KJV. I have a book that has 4 versions of the B'rit Hadashah on facing pages. It is easy to compare those. One is the RSV. I also have 11 Bible versions in e-sword on my computer. I compare certain verses in all 11 daily. I also go to Bible Browser on the Internet to compare some other versions. If you know of certain verses in Artscroll's Stone Edition that I should consider, I would very much appreciate it if you would share those with me. I want to know as much about Scripture as possible. I have been searching as hard as I can go for more than 40 years now. Agape

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Re: Kislev 25
If you still have the personal chronology file of mine from a couple of years ago, I had mentioned that on December 4th of 1999, which was Kislev 25, I was told "you and your household are Redeemed", and was given 1 Kings 3:5 as confirmation. Unclean spirits do not quote Scripture, they hate it, because it is their eternal destruction.

This is why I was looking at Hannukah last year, as you may remember. I have great interest in your analysis of this Kislev 25, maybe this year synchronises with Kislev 25 for Redemption. God Bless You and Ed

My reply

I'm up before daylight, mulling these things over in my mind. Hanukkah seems to be connected to the Rapture in John 10:22-28. Hanukkah means dedication. "Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch" on "the feast of the dedication." He said, "MY SHEEP HEAR MY VOICE, AND I KNOW THEM, AND THEY FOLLOW ME: AND I GIVE UNTO THEM ETERNAL LIFE." We are his sheep. We will hear his voice saying, "Come up hither" (Rev. 4:1) at the Rapture. We will follow him to Heaven. We receive eternal life.

Josephus said that his feast is also called the Feast of Lights (Ant. XII. 7.7). Pure oil for the candlestick that should have lasted one day lasted for eight days. Eight means new beginning, which the Rapture will be for those wise virgins that have enough oil in their vessels with their lamps (Mt. 25:1f). The Philadelphian church is represented by a candlestick in Rev. 1:20, so the oil, lamps, and candlestick tie in with Hanukkah. The "open door" is set before the church of Philadelphia (Rev. 3:8).

Haggai (meaning feast) 2:15f says, "now, I pray you, consider from this day (Kislev 24) and UPWARD, from before a stone was laid upon a stone in the temple of the LORD...Consider now from this day and UPWARD, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev 24, Hanukkah Eve), even from the day that the foundation (12 elders, 12 apostles, Rev. 21:14) of the LORD's temple was laid (Kislev 25), consider it. Is the seed (we are wheat) yet in the barn (Heaven, Mt. 13:30)? yea, as yet the vine (Christ, Jn.15:5), and the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7, i.e., Old Testament saints), and the pomegranate (Church saints, Song 4:3), and the olive tree (Tribulation saints, Psa. 128:3), hath not brought forth: from THIS DAY will I BLESS YOU (OT and Church saints as the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place, Tribulation saints a little later).

"And AGAIN the word of the LORD came unto Haggai in the four and twentieth day of the month, saying, Speak to Zerubbabel (meaning scattered in Babylon), governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth (Day of God's Wrath, Eze. 38:20, first day of the Millennium); And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms (king over the nations, the UN or OWG), and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders (the Beast and False Prophet, Rev. 6) shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother. In THAT DAY (1st day of the Millennium), saith the LORD of hosts, will I TAKE THEE (the Tribulation saints at the Pre-Wrath Rapture), O Zerubbabel (meaning SCATTERED IN BABYLON), my servant, the son of Shealtiel (meaning I have asked from God), saith the LORD, and will make thee as a signet: for I have CHOSEN thee, saith the LORD of hosts."

Pre-Trib Rapture. Rev. 4:1: "behold, a door was opened in HEAVEN: and the FIRST VOICE which I heard (Christ, Rev. 1:10) was as it were of a TRUMPET (first 'trump of God,' I Thess. 4:16) talking with me; which SAID, COME UP HITHER."

Pre-Wrath Rapture. Rev. 18:4: " I heard ANOTHER VOICE FROM HEAVEN, SAYING, COME out of her (World Church at Babylon), my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues." This is the "last trump," (I Cor. 15:51,52). Agape

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...The next Presidential Elections in the USA are in 2004. If indeed the Tribulation begins this year, the next elected President will be office in the middle of the Tribulation. The next elected President, sadly, may be Hillary Clinton.

* Were the hijackers happily married men with wives and children. It would hardly seem so. Were they men who preferred men??

* When I hear about the Christians in Afghanistan who are awaiting trial for spreading the Gospel, I think of Matthew 10: 14-15: "And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet. Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, that for that city".

Let us comfort each other, knowing the Lord Jesus is coming soon. I Thessalonians 4:16-18
'Turn your eyes upon Jesus. Look full in His Wonderful Face and the things of earth will grow strangely dim in the Light of His Glory and Grace.

My reply

I sure wouldn't want to be in the shoes of the hijackers at the Great White Throne Judgment, or even right after they died. I bet that was a terrible shock to find out how totally wrong they had been. Not only did they not instantly go to Paradise, as they had been told, but they went to a place of torment. I could imagine them joining in with the rich man of Luke 16:19f, saying, "I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead."

I think Moses will be sent to Earth for 1260 days to prove that statement right. They still won't listen. It's sad.

I saw an account last night of how one Muslim became a Christian. He thought he was supposed to be saved by his works. Knowing that he wouldn't make it that way, he looked into Christianity that offered forgiveness for things he had done. He accepted Christ. I wish more would look into Christianity to see what it really is all about. Agape

Incoming e-mail

Did we just see the Towers of Babylon one hour?

My reply

I think it was a sign of that. Isa. 30:25 says, "there shall be upon every high mountain, and upon every high hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day of the great slaughter, when the towers fall." This time, we had to wait till Sept. 13 for the thunderstorm and great downpour. I think that is because the downfall of the towers of Babylon will be Sept. 13, 2007. Agape

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THANK YOU AND GOD BLESS YOU! YOU WILL NEVER KNOW HOW MUCH WE LOVE YOU AND ARE THANKFUL THAT YOU ARE FAITHFUL TO JESUS! I read the book,"BE THE BRIDE", I was concerned that I and my family and friends were not all that we should be and prayed that I, We are forgiven washed white in the blood of Jesus. I wanted the Lord to further help me to understand how I could possibly be pure and perfect enough to be the Bride. Oh, how I so want to be part of the Bride of Christ, my heart aches for it! I then read your last PC. "If we confess our sins, He is Faithful and Just to forgive us our Sins, and to Cleanse us from ALL Unrighteousness." "If we are Free of all unrighteousness", We are wearing White Wedding Garments and WILL WALK WITH CHRIST IN WHITE, FOR WE ARE WORTHY.

I don't know how to explain my feelings about our LORD and my desire to be part of the Bride group. The idea that maybe I won't be upsets me beyond words. Your words are a comfort and a blessing from God. Its like a comforting kiss or a Strong Hug from our heavenly Father. I know that Salvation is not according to works, but being part of the Bride Group is based on works. I pray we are all worthy!

My reply

Thanks for those kind words. It sure sounds like you don't have anything to worry about. After confessing all sins we know of, God will cleanse us of those we don't know of. Then, if we slip and sin, we can confess it in the next breath. The Lord knows the condition of our heart. We can rest in Jesus, and wait patiently for his coming for his Bride. Luke 21:36 does say to "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." It seems that you hit all bases. Agape

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Re: the fig tree
I don't understand how people interpret the Fig Tree to be Israel. It is cursed never to produce again. Israel is to be redeemed.....(the 144,000 are the nucleus of the new Israel, from every tribe) and will "produce" again. There were two trees in the garden......and the fruit of one has never born "life". The cursing of the fig tree, I believe, stands for that tree that the carnal man has been partaking of....and when the New Covenant has been complete, the law written on our hearts and minds....that "curse" will have been fulfilled.

It is just after Christ cleanses the temple of the money changers in the temple, that the fig tree is cursed. The temple, in the 3rd Day, becomes the body of the believer ...and that is a clear picture, I believe, of the mind of christ renewing the "carnal mind" of man . They were selling "doves"...and the dove is symbolic of the shulamite, the Bride. After He cleanses the temple...He curses the "tree".

My reply

> > I don't understand how people interpret the Fig Tree to be Israel. It is cursed never to produce again

On Nisan 10 in 30 AD, the lambs to be sacrificed were chosen. It was on that day that Jesus cursed the fig tree that had no fruit. That cursing was fulfilled in 70 AD, when Jerusalem and the temple were burned. That was one generation. In Mt. 23:36, Jesus told the Pharisees, "Verily (Amen, so be it) I say unto you, All these things shall come upon THIS GENERATION." They did, in 70 AD.

Zeph. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together (fulfilled in 1948), O nation not desired (Israel); BEFORE the decree bring forth, BEFORE the day pass as the chaff, BEFORE the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, BEFORE the day of the LORD's anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) in the day of the LORD's anger (probably Sept. 13, 2007). For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day (the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 will impact the Mediterranean Sea at noon), and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD is against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I will even destroy thee, that there shall be no inhabitant."

Eze. 38:8 says, "in the latter years (of this age) thou shalt come into THE LAND THAT IS BROUGHT BACK from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, AGAINST THE MOUNTAINS OF ISRAEL, which have been always waste: but IT IS BROUGHT FORTH OUT OF THE NATIONS, and they shall dwell safely all of them." This was fulfilled in 1948. It is before Gog's army will attack Israel on the last day of this age.

Joel 1:6,7 shows that Israel is called a fig tree. It says, "a nation is come up upon MY LAND, strong, and without number, whose teeth are the teeth of a lion, and he hath the cheek teeth of a great lion. He hath laid my vine waste, and barked MY FIG TREE: he hath made it clean bare, and cast it away; the branches thereof are made white."

Hos. 9:10 says, "I found Israel like grapes in the wilderness; I SAW YOUR FATHERS AS THE FIRSTRIPE IN THE FIG TREE AT HER FIRST TIME: but they went to Baalpeor, and separated themselves unto that shame; and their abominations were according as they loved." Then Israel has a second time.

Jer. 24: 5,6 says, "Thus saith the LORD, the God of Israel; LIKE THESE GOOD FIGS, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of JUDAH, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good. For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull them down; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up."

Jer. 29:17-19 says, "Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Behold, I will send upon them the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, and WILL MAKE THEM LIKE VILE FIGS, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil. And I will persecute them with the sword, with the famine, and with the pestilence, and will deliver them to be removed to all the kingdoms of the earth, to be a curse, and an astonishment, and an hissing, and a reproach, among all the nations whither I have driven them: Because they have not hearkened to my words, saith the LORD."

> > the 144,000 are the nucleus of the new Israel, from every tribe) and will "produce" again.

The 144,000 are "virgins, " "firstfruits unto God," and are caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Wrath Rapture. They "are without fault before the throne of God" (Rev. 14:4,5).

On Earth, all Israel will be saved in a day (Isa. 66:8), after the Pre-Trib Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath. Zech. 13:8,9 says, "it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I WILL BRING THE THIRD PART THROUGH THE FIRE, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and THEY SHALL SAY, THE LORD IS MY GOD." Every single promise God made to Israel will literally come true for Israel.

> > After He cleanses the temple....He curses the "tree"

Eze. 45:18 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; In the first month, in the first day of the month (Nisan 1, first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year, day of the Second Advent), thou shalt take a young bullock without blemish, and CLEANSE THE SANCTUARY." Psa. 25:13 says, "His soul shall dwell at ease; and HIS SEED SHALL INHERIT THE EARTH." Agape

> > and when the New Covenant has been complete, the law written on our hearts and minds....that "curse" will have been fulfilled.

Zech. 5:1-4 is about THE CURSE which is probably a binary asteroid. It is the flying rolling thing that is twice as long as wide. It "goeth forth (orbits) over the face of the whole earth." I think the 2 stone tablets with the 10 commandments on them prefigured the 2 stones of Rev. 8:8,10 that will hit Earth on the Day of God's Wrath. Zech. 5:3,4 says, "This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it (one stone tablet with 5 commandments on it); and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it (the other stone tablet with 5 commandments on it). I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Tribulation Pope, who claims infallibility): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

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Updated 10-15-01