Pro and Con 825

Posted 10-28-01

Laeken summit must get to the heart of the matter
10-26-01...Mr Verhofstadt called for a new global order to be set up, based on a G8 of regional blocks, to face the new challenges triggered by the 11 September terrorist attacks....

G8 of regional blocks
He added that we need more than ever a new world order and that the institutionalisation of relations between regional blocks will channel the opposition and lessen the risks for global peace. Mr Verhofstadt has already launched the idea of replacing the present G7 of the richest countries with a group of regional blocks, so as to allow all regions to have a say in world affairs and to bridge the North-South divide, in an open letter to the anti-globalisation adepts. His open letter will be publicly discussed on 30 October at the Ghent University, in Belgium, with more than 300 representatives of civil society.

Commenting on the success of the European Union and on its capacity to serve as a model for successful integration, which could also be applied at a global level, he admitted that the EU often makes people think of the "Habsburg Empire in decline", or "of a Byzantine court," but the achievements in terms of peace, security, and prosperity are overwhelming. In his speech called "The new world order after 11 September", he also said that a new world is more than ever necessary, with the United States as a key element, as it is the only state with a military force at a global scale, pending the development of a European defence force. He also pointed out that the engagement of Europe should be more significant in the new world order.
Largest Insurance Claims Relate to Covenant LandóBill Koenig
10-24-01 The three largest insurance claims in United States history all have direct connection to American involvement in the Middle East peace talks when Israel was pressured to give up God's covenant land in exchange for peace....

Hurricane Andrew: $19.6 billion. (This event happened on August 23, 1992, the day the Madrid Peace Conference re-convened in Washington to discuss the Israeli-Palestinian crisis.)

Northridge Earthquake: $16.2 billion. (This event happened on January 16, 1994, as President Clinton and Syria's President Haffez el-Assad called for Israel to give up the Golan Heights to Syria at a public meeting in Geneva.)

Terrorist Attacks at the World Trade Center and Pentagon: $30-$50 billion. (The September 11 event happened at the moment that the Bush Administration was putting the final touches on a Middle East initiative, which included recognition of a Palestinian State, endorsement of the Mitchell Plan, and position statements about Palestinian refugees and the status of Jerusalem. This initiative was to be shared with the Saudi Ambassador to the United Nations on Sept. 13, with a formal presentation to the U.N. General Assembly by Secretary of State Colin Powell on September 23.)...

World religious leaders' conference denounces terror By Melissa Radler - NEW YORK 10-26-01
More than 100 religious leaders from 30 nations gathered here this week to denounce terrorism and discuss ways that religion can be used to promote peace rather than bloodshed....

In a Wednesday afternoon panel discussion called "Conversation for Peace in the Middle East," Rabbi Menachem Froman of Tekoa, who is Sephardi Chief Rabbi Eliahu Bakshi-Doron's envoy for inter-religious affairs, proposed that Jerusalem be declared ex-territorial and become the capital of the world, to be overseen by a committee of Christians, Jews, and Muslims.

The idea that was greeted with enthusiasm by the other religious leaders attending the panel, one of whom recommended that Jerusalem become a capital for all religions, including Buddhism, Hinduism, and Jainism.

"It is possible to galvanize the political leaders and to declare Jerusalem the city of God," said Froman.

My note

My guess is that they won't be able to get everyone to agree and will build the capitol of the world, including the capitol of world religions at Babylon.

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Israeli PM Plans To Offer Arafat A State - If He Stops The Violence
10-25-01 Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is working on a plan to offer the Palestinians a state even before a final agreement - provided Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat puts a halt to the violence.

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Re: timing of 9/11 attacks
I saw on 5D today that this date was chosen to commemorate the signing of the Balfour declaration in 1948.

My reply

The Balfour Declaration was issued on 11-2-1917 (Facts about Israel, published by the division of information, Ministry for Foreign Affairs, Jerusalem, p. 34). Agape

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From: Jacque Driskell Re: Peace to you!! About mid November through December
I have read most of your books, and was always so happy to find someone who had let the Holy Spirit lead them in study and thought for themselves. God has surely gifted you with special insight because of your faith. We dont have to agree on every point, you are my sister in Messiah.

If you have a moment, I would be honored if you would review my new website.
My site is targeted to a very narrow audience. I just uploaded it this weekend...a work in progress.

I can confirm the witness many people share about November...

Please bear with me here: This is hard to explain without a picture of the rising constellations. The 4th horseman which is related to Centaurus/Lupus(which is Death and Hades)is given to kill 1/4 of the earth will ride (rise on the eastern horizon as viewed from the latitude of Jerusalem temple mount at the morning sacrifice) around mid November to mid December. Maybe not this year, but soon.

The Body of believers is rightly discerning the time of year we are to watch for.

I have found confirmation in my studies for the period Sept - Dec being directly related to the first 4 seals of Revelation 6. I expound on this subject on my website.

Suffice it to say that the first horseman is Corona Borealis (a laurel crown) rising in early September, The second is Hercules (with a weapon) rising close to the same time as Corona. The third is Libra (the scales)(early November). The fourth is Centaurus (spearholder) with Lupus (black dog/wolff-guardian Hades/also known as Pluto(full viewable on the horizon in late November).

First, there will be a EVENT 'thief' that steals and beats up, 'wounds' people...related to the road to Jericho in present day Israel.

Watch for the first horseman: may be a POLITICIAN in the spirit of Jonathon (with the bow shot and princely laurel,who warned David). The second horseman will be a higher placed POLITICIAN with the spirit of David with the sword of Goliath (who ran from Saul and hide in the wilderness), the third is still something of a mystery-it is not a person, but a division of the Land by a group, but the fourth is a INNKEEPER, a Political OverLord with the spirit of Saul (with His Spear that is often spoken of in the text of scripture). I believer the INNKEEPer will have to do with UN or NATO (7 headed)occupation of Israel....a dividing of the land and removal of Israel's sovereign right to rule.

Watch the road to Jericho in present day ISRAEL...there is reason for this in the repetition of this sequence. Jericho is recurring in similiar sequence in the O.T.

We are close to the time....maybe not this year...but soon. Because I feel this information is so important, I have sent it to Jim Bramlett also. Peace of the Lord be with you and family, J. Driskell

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

> > I have found confirmation in my studies for the period Sept - Dec being directly related to the first 4 seals of Revelation 6. I expound on this subject on my website.

I am trying to understand your reasoning, but am having trouble. I think the seals are broken about one per year, not four in the beginning of the Tribulation. The fourth mentions Death (the False Prophet) and Hell (Satan). Isa. 28:18 says, "your COVENANT WITH DEATH (the prince that shall come, the False Prophet, Dan. 9:27) shall be disannulled, and YOUR AGREEMENT WITH HELL (Satan, inhabiting the False Prophet) shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge (when the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 impacts the Mediterranean Sea, Zeph. 2:4,5) shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it." The Satan-possessed False Prophet comes to power Mid-Trib. This places the breaking of the first three seals spread out over the first 1260 days of the Tribulation and the fourth on the first day of the Great Tribulation.

> > The 4th horseman which is related to Centaurus/Lupus(which is Death and Hades)

I don't think Centaurus represents Death, i.e., Satan. In my file "God's picture book, "THE WAY," written in the stars," I said, "That Christ was able to lay down his own life and take it up again is even shown. CENTAURUS (Christ) slaying VICTIMA (Christ) depicts it." I have posted 3 files on the stars. The first is found at: The other files are stars2 and stars3.

There are 3 books you would probably enjoy reading:
Bullinger's "Witness of the Stars" (online at:
Seiss' "Gospel in the Stars"
Patrick's "The Zodiac Conspiracy" Agape

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Re: Question about Wormwood
I had Evan. Daniel Rydstead teaching this past Sunday night in my church. He did a great job, the people loved his new book.

I've a question for you: In Rev. 8:11 reads: "And the name of the star is called "Wormwood". For some reason I keep thinking that there is or has been a star, comet, or maybe a space program by that name. Does any of this ring a bell with you? I know of the wormwood plant, and what wormwood means as used here. Can you give me any insight? Thx

My reply

I checked out a book at the Library that had a list of all the asteroids up to that time. I didn't run across any named Wormwood. No list I have seen since did, either. Wormwood means bitterness. Agape

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Re: Nov. 3rd rapture?
Hey! Great site. I'm really starting to think the Rapture may be on or around Nov. 3rd this year.

I've been studying prophecy for about 8 years now and for years expected a major turning point to happen atound Sept. 17/18, 2001 because of the signing of a 7 year peace treaty in Israel on Oct. 26, 1994 (exactly 2520 days from Sept. 18, 2001) and the Giza Pyramid timeline. Since then, I've looked into Daniel's prophecy of 70 Weeks more closely and see somthing that might fit:

From 444 BC (rebuilding of Jerusalem) to Jesus rejected as Messiah a week before crucifixion/resurrection takes us to 33 AD. It's exactly 483 Biblical years (of 360 days each). I believe Christ was born during Tabernacles in 1 BC (Grant Jeffrey makes a case for this date), and exactly 32.5 solar (which is 33 Biblical years) later, he was resurrected in 33 and the Church was born 50 days later. From Pentecost 33 AD to Sept. 18, 2001 was exactly 1997 Biblical years of 360 days each. Added to the 33 years Christ was on earth equals 2030 years for the Church. As for Israel, the 7 years could begin on Nov. 16th, 2001 (40th day of Operation Enduring Freedom, just like the Gulf War's duration, and 1st day of Ramadan!) and end on the Day of Attonement, Yom Kippur on Oct. 9, 2008, exactly 2520 days later. This could be the final 7 years of the 490 (from Daniel's 70 weeks of 7). The 2030 years of the Church plus the 490 years concerning Israel equals 2520 years, or 360 X 7 years. Note Christ's 33 years on earth is applied to both since it concerned both Israel and the Church until he was "cut off" by Israel... then it only concerned the Church. This might not be the actual timeline, but it does fit nicely. There is support for the 444 BC, 1 BC, 33 AD dates... Also, for what it's worth, 12,600 days from the Six Day War in 1967 is Dec. 3, 2001. As for the 1997 years between the beginning of the Church and the Tribulation, you can add the 3 years of Jesus' ministry and get 2000 years, if you like that magical number :) It's interesting also to think Jesus' time on earth was 33 Biblical (32.5 solar) years, because 33 plus the final 7 years for Israel is 40 years - a Biblical favorite. All of this could mean Rapture between now and Nov. 16th. These dates may be wrong of course, but I'm sure we're very close now...

Here is the timetable that I think may be somewhat accurate. Be sure to check out the perfect divisions of time in the far right as well...
It's also at God Bless

My reply

I have studied the Bible as hard as I could go over 40 years now. When it gets hold of you, it doesn't let go. We never know it all. There is too much there for one lifetime.

> > the signing of a 7 year peace treaty in Israel on Oct. 26, 1994 (exactly 2520 days from Sept. 18, 2001)

I recorded that Oslo II was signed on 9-28-94. However, I am wondering why you disregard when the Oslo Accords were first signed, 9-13-93. It seems reasonable that the first time would have more weight. Can it be disregarded in favor of Oslo II?

I think the 7 good years and 7 bad years, as when Joseph was in Egypt, run from Sept. 13, 1993 to Sept. 13, 2007, the Day of God's Wrath on the Feast of Trumpets.

> > From 444 BC (rebuilding of Jerusalem) to Jesus rejected as Messiah a week before crucifixion/resurrection takes us to 33 AD. It's exactly 483 Biblical years (of 360 days each).

In The Romance of Bible Chronology, by Martin Anstey, he wrote that he found an 82-year error in the era of the Persian Kings. BC 536 - 82 = BC 454, when Cyrus issued "the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem" (Dan. 9:25). We have it on the Lord's authority that it is Cyrus' commandment that we are to go by. Isa. 44:28 says, "That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid."

483 - BC 454 + 1 (no zero year) = 30 AD, the year the Messiah was "cut off" (karath, killed) (Dan. 9:26). Those are normal years. I don't think the Lord intended for us to reduce the year to 360 days. In Gen. 1:14, "God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years." He never recinded that.

> > I believe Christ was born during Tabernacles in 1 BC

I think it was BC 5. The wise men would have visited in BC 3 before Herod died after the lunar eclipse of Jan. 10, BC 1. When the wise men came, Jesus was near 2 years old. That's why Herod had the male children 2 years and under killed in Bethlehem. Mt. 2:11 says, "when they were come into the house, they saw the young child (not brephos, infant, but paidion, a toddler) with Mary his mother, and fell down, and worshipped him: and when they had opened their treasures, they presented unto him gifts; gold, and frankincense and myrrh." These gifts showed that he is Deity and High Priest.

Every time clue to the year of the Crucifixion points us to 30 AD. Here is the way I figure it. The temple was begun in BC 20/19. It had been 46 years in building at the 1st Passover of Jesus' ministry, in 27 AD. He was born in BC 5 and had been baptized near his 30th birthday on Tishri 1 in 26 AD. The 1st Passover was in 27 AD, the 4th in 30 AD. The first year of Tiberius was 12 AD, when he became Co-Rex and ruled over Palestine from that time on. Augustus occupied himself with other parts of the kingdom until his death in 14 AD. The 15th year of Tiberius was 26 AD, when Jesus was baptized.

> > As for Israel, the 7 years could begin on Nov. 16th, 2001 (40th day of Operation Enduring Freedom, just like the Gulf War's duration, and 1st day of Ramadan!) and end on the Day of Attonement, Yom Kippur on Oct. 9, 2008, exactly 2520 days later

The second 1260 days of the Tribulation is to be shortened. Mt. 24:21,22 says, "For then shall be GREAT TRIBULATION, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except THOSE DAYS SHOULD BE SHORTENED, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Dan. 8:13,14 shows that the time when the Jews can sacrifice (1st 1260 days) plus the time when they can't (because the False Prophet desecrates the temple) is 2300 days. Therefore the Great Tribulation would be 1040 days.

I think the Second Advent will be on Nisan 1, 5768 (Apr. 6, 2008). Counting backward by Jewish inclusive reckoning brings us to Dec. 19, 2001. That could be the beginning of the Tribulation, when the covenant is confirmed. Right now, Ariel Sharon is willing to give the Palestinians a state--even before negotiations take place, IF Arafat will stop the violence. It seems to be coming together soon.

> > All of this could mean Rapture between now and Nov. 16th. > > . I'm really starting to think the Rapture may be on or around Nov. 3rd this year.

It might be. Nov. 3 is Cheshvan 17, when Noah entered the Ark and the Lord closed the door. The Rapture is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37; Luke 17:22-27). We will know soon. Other dates that are coming up are Cheshvan 27 (Nov. 13), when Noah came out of the Ark, and Kislev 25 (Dec. 10), Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights, the Feast of the Dedication. The wise virgins have lamps that are burning brightly. There could be a tie-in. Jesus came to the Feast of the Dedication, as he will come to the Church at the Rapture. John 10:22,23 says, "it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter. And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch." Our winter comes Dec. 21, but some think that the fall and winter were called "winter" and the spring and summer were called "summer." Spring and Fall, or Autumn, are not mentioned directly in Scripture. We are told that winter will come Nov. 1 in Afghanistan. It may be because of that winter that attention will be given to confirming the covenant between Israel and the Palestinians. I'm hoping the Rapture will be between now and Dec. 19, 2001.

Of the handwriting on the wall, Dan. 5:28 says, "PERES; Thy kingdom is divided." That seems to be echoed in our days. Who in Israel is trying the hardest to bring peace? Who won the Nobel prize for his peace efforts? Who had a conversation with President George W. Bush Tuesday? Yep, it was the Israeli foreign minister Shimon Peres. Keep watching. Agape

His reply

From: Jacque Driskell
RE: Peace to you!! About mid November through December
Thanks for your comments. Bullinger and Siess were books I have read and reviewed many years ago...however they do not share thier bibliography information, which makes them rather suspect. Much of what they wrote was good but they seem to add their own colorful aliteration to their descriptions of zodiacs.

The most helpful books I have found are Star Names by Richard Hinckley Allen and most recently a couple of academic books by Bruce J Malina, one being Social-Science Commentary on the book of Revelation. Bruce is interesting in that, he is writing from a strictly academic point of view and sees the context of Revelation correctly. But I view the book as a calendar and he views it has fancy hyperbole for the day of John.

There is a precision to Jesus' prophecy, that's why he warned about not changing it.

I may have it wrong yes...however I dont base my reasoning on my feelings or what sounds good. I base it on primary historical, astronomical and scriptural research.

I am so glad you are on the web. Please continue to encourage people to seek the Lord and the kingdom. It must be hard work at times. In His peace

My reply

Maybe I can help a little by copying some of both Bullinger's and Seiss' prefaces for you.

Bullinger said, "Some years ago it was my privilege to enjoy the acquaintance of Miss Frances Rolleston, of Keswick, and to carry on a correspondence with her with respect to her work, Mazzaroth: or, the Constellations. She was the first to create an interest in this important subject. Since then Dr. Joseph A. Seiss, of Philadelpha, has endeavored to popularize her work on the other side of the Atlantic; and brief references have been made to the subject in such books as Moses and Geology, by Dr. Kinns, and in Primeval Man; but it was felt, for many reasons, that it was desirable to make another effort to set forth, in a more complete form, the witness of the stars to prophetic truth, so necessary in these last days.

"To the late Miss Rolleston, however, belongs the honor of collecting a mass of information bearing on this subject; but, published as it was, chiefly in the form of notes, unarranged and unindexed, it was suited only for, but was most valuable to, the student. It was she who performed the drudgery of collecting the facts presented by Albumazer, the Arab astronomer to the Caliphs of Grenada, A.D. 850; and the Tables drawn up by Ulugh Beigh, the Tartar prince and astronomer, about A.D. 1450, who gives the Arabian astronomy as it had come down from the earliest times."

In his Preface, Seiss said, "A new field of inquiry thus opened, for the exploration of which but few helps beyond the ordinary books on astronomy could be found. Something, however, had been done by Bailly in his History of Astronomy, Dupuis in his L'Origines des Cultus, Volney in Les Ruines, and some other writers of the same class...Gale, in his Court of the Gentiles, Faber, On Pagan Idolatry, Roberts, in his Letters to Volney, Haslam, on The Cross and the Serpent, and the author of Primeval Man Unveiled, have slightly touched upon the subject, and furnish some materials in the direction of the same conclusion.

"Sir William Drummond, in his Origines, D. Piazzi Smyth, in his Life and Work, and J. T. Goodsir, On Ethnic Inspiration, also present some important facts and considerations relating to the general inquiry.

"A more valuable aid to the study of the subject as treated in this volume is Frances Rolleston's Mazzaroth; or, The Constallations."

Seiss gives some of Rolleston's sources, then says, "Fac-similes of the Dendera and Esne Zodiacs are also given in the last edition (1875) of her work. And from her tables and references the writer of these Lectures was helped to some of his best information, without which this book could hardly have become what it is."

I hope this helps. Agape

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Re: Return of the Lord
My Dear Sister in the Lord, I was wondering if possibly Song of Solomon 2:10-13 could refer to when we return with the Lord in April 2008? "My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one and come away. For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle is heard in our land; The fig tree putteth forth her green figs, and the vines with the tender grape give a good smell, Arise, my love, my fair one and come away."

What caught my eye was the beginning of the next verse 14: " O my dove, that art in the clefts of the rock......" Could 'rock' possibly mean that we are already in Heaven and would be 'rising up' out of our place in Heaven and return to earth??

Lately I have been thinking of our 1,000 years with the Lord Jesus on earth, when the devil is chained. Then the devil is loosed and some people still won't receive and believe in the salvation of our Lord Jesus. Isn't amazing to think that there will probably be on earth, during the 1,000 years; people that we now know. After all they will have seen and heard how will they remain resistent to the Love and Protection of our Lord Jesus? Just to think that our Lord will take care of us forever and forever, and we will indeed see Him~~Soon! With Joy in my heart,

My reply

> > I was wondering if possibly Song of Solomon 2:10-13 could refer to when we return with the Lord in April 2008?

It sounds more like the Rapture to me. It says, "Arise...and come away." It mentions the secret of the stairs. That's like Jacob's ladder, and the top was Heaven. The time clues fit Ascension Day or Pentecost best. In the clefts of the rock is a good parallel, for we are in Christ, who is the rock. I Cor. 10:4 says, "And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."

I have been hoping for the Rapture each Pentecost starting in 1998. However, in case that passage doesn't apply to the Rapture, I have to look at other possibilities too. Jesus said to watch. This seems like such good advise. World events sure seem to be bringing the Rapture closer all the time. I used to check news on the Internet the last thing before I went to bed. Now, I can't wait to see what has happened while I was asleep.

I don't think we will be on Earth 1000 years, only until the Millennial Government is set up. It sounds like New Jerusalem will come down and orbit the Earth in those days. I think we will be able to travel back and forth. Rev. 21:27 says, "there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life." That is our main home during the Millennium. We are written in the Lamb's book of life.

In spite of what we know, we still have much to learn. I wonder if the Lord will pour it into our heads or if we will have classes. Hope to find out soon. Maranatha. Agape

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Those 300 Million Indian people who are going to get to hear about Christianity--that is to be on the 4th of interersting notion with your conjecture of a November 3rd Rapture possibility.

My reply

That would help to convince them, wouldn't it. However, the one who was going to present Christianity as an alternate might be gone too. If that were to happen, the Lord would empower someone else to teach them. He wouldn't miss an opportunity like that. He will speak to them one way or another. Dear Heavenly Father, please help these Hindu people to understand the truth. They want to be free of the caste system, and the truth would set them free in more ways than one. In Jesus' name, Amen. Agape

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I am not the swiftness,I need your help, I was reading your "CONSIDER THIS" update,Oct10,2001. Most intriguing! However,could you please explain to me,how Nov 3rd plus 10 days,equal Dec.13th?

I know I am missing something. How is Ed? We pray for him& of course ,you everyday* love,me your friend & sister4life...I sure hope we all meet on Nov.3rd* YESSSS I DO!!!!

My reply

Thanks for telling me of my goof. I'm not sure I would ever find it myself. It should have been 40 days, not 10. "And the rain (Holy Spirit) was upon the earth forty days and forty nights." Cheshvan 17 + 40 days = Dec. 13 (Kislev 28), the 4th day of Hanukkah."

Thanks for your prayers. We are ok. Nov. 3rd would be ok with me too. Agape

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