> > 9 And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10 And ....as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel;11 Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. (physically, in the clouds) NOW GET THIS: RIGHT before their very eyes they were WITNESSES to the RAPTURE of Jesus himself. Now they knew with certainty, that he would keep his word, to receive them onto himself, as promised. Even Angels were sent to confirm it! Rapture was real.... the only question now was, when would 'they' be taken up?! (NOTE: those who were alive then, the 'YOU', will be amongst those resurrected from the dead in order to fulfill his promise.) Now, as they went into all the Earth as a witness what were they witnesses too? The birth, life, crucifixion, death, resurrection AND rapture of the Lord....
From Marilyn: Thank you Alan for reminding me that Jesus was raptured 40 days after his resurrection. I knew that 40-day period was important, but hadn't recently tied it to the 40 days of rain in Noah's day.
In Mt. 24:37, Jesus made us understand that the Rapture will be as in the days of Noah. Hosea 6:3 says that the Lord will come as the rain. Job 37:5,6 says, "God THUNDERETH marvellously with HIS VOICE; great things doeth he, which we cannot comprehend. For he saith to the snow, Be thou on the earth; likewise to the small rain, and to THE GREAT RAIN OF HIS STRENGTH."
Noah went into the Ark on Cheshvan 17 (Gen. 7:11). GREAT RAIN followed for 40 days. Applied to the Rapture, forty days later this year will be Kislev 27 (Dec. 12, 2001, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning), the 3rd day of Hanukkah, or Kislev 28 (Dec. 13, 2001, not counted by inclusive reckoning), the 4th day of Hanukkah.
In John 10:22-27, "it was at Jerusalem the FEAST OF THE DEDICATION (Hanukkah, Feast of Lights)...And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch...My sheep hear MY VOICE (as in Rev. 1:10 and 4:1), and I know them and THEY FOLLOW (akoloutheo, accompany, follow, REACH) ME." That sounds like the Rapture. I'm hoping to celebrate my 73rd birthday (Dec. 13) in Heaven. That would be miraculous. Agape
Luk 12:35 Let your loins be girded about, and [your] lights burning
Phl 2:15 says.....be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;
Rev 2:5 gives us a warning. It says... Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent. We certainly need to repent and confess all sin so our lamp burns bright and we are not removed from the Lord's place.
All of these verses would tie in nicely with the festival of light/Hannukah. Don't you think?
A detailed study of this subject is available at
Greg Killian's site is excellent.
Maybe you will gleen so useful information from this site. Pentecost always seemed to point to the rapture but I am hopeful your time table for our departure before Dec 19th is correct. That is why I hope Hannukah is our departure time. In Christ
Greg said that Kislev 27 was the 3rd day of Hanukkah and the 40th day of the rain in Noah's day. This reminded me again that the 40th day might have a bearing on the time of the Rapture, which is as the days of Noah. Mt. 24:37 says, "as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." Hos. 6:3 says that the Lord will come as the rain, the former and latter. That represents his former coming on Tishri 1 and the Second Advent on Nisan 1. However, hidden in there might also be a hint as to when he would come at the Rapture. It says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, as the latter and former rain unto the earth."
Greg Killiah counted the 40 days of the Flood by Jewish inclusive reckoning. Gen.7:11 gives us "the second month, the seventeenth day" (Cheshvan 17). Verse 12 adds, "And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights."
If we start counting from Cheshvan 17, 5762 (Nov. 3, 2001) by inclusive reckoning, the 40th day would be Kislev 27, the THIRD DAY of Hanukkah and our Dec. 12. From that day the flood waters abated, went away. My birthday is Dec. 13. Boy! it sure would be neat to celebrate it in Heaven. Not counting by inclusive reckoning, the 40th day is Dec. 13.
I keep close watch on the peace process, knowing that the covenant will be confirmed as the Tribulation begins. Jordan proposed that the Arab countries from the Gulf to Morocco jointly guarantee Israel's safety in the land in exchange for a Palestinian state. That could turn out to be part of the "many" of Dan. 9:27.
You are so right about repenting and confessing our sins. That is of paramount importance now. Keep watching. Blessings and agape
Yes. They are the same, Moses and Elijah, "the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth" (Zech. 4:14) at the Transfiguration.
Different accounts are given in different places in Scripture so the unbelievers won't understand. This is a good reason to have 4 gospels. Some details will be included in one that may not be in the others. The lack of some detail may block full understanding. Believers are to compare all the accounts to get the whole story. The Transfiguration is in Mt. 17:1-7; Mk. 9:2-13 and Luke 9:28-36.
Mt. 16:28; 17:1-3,7 says. "Verily (Amen, this is important) I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING in his kingdom. And AFTER SIX DAYS (hemera, days, times, years, a period more or less clearly defined by the context; maybe to us, after 6 years) Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John (3 elders, all caught up to Heaven when John is in Rev. 4:1) his brother, and BRINGETH THEM UP INTO AN HIGH MOUNTAIN APART (kata, from---to, godly; and idios, home; i.e., UP TO GOD'S HOME, HEAVEN), And was transfigured ( metamorphoo; transformed, CHANGED) before them: and his face did shine as the sun (as in the Preview of the Rapture, Rev. 1:14), and his raiment was white as the light. And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him (i.e., in Heaven)....And JESUS CAME and touched them (the elders), AND SAID, ARISE (prefiguring the Rapture), and be not afraid."
Mark 9:1-3,7 says, "he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall NOT TASTE OF DEATH (i.e., be Raptured), till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. And AFTER SIX DAYS Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and LEADETH THEM UP into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them. And his raiment became shining, exceeding WHITE AS SNOW, SO AS NO FULLER ON EARTH CAN WHITE THEM (i.e., they are not on Earth)....And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a VOICE CAME OUT OF THE CLOUD (as at the Rapture), saying, This is my beloved SON: HEAR HIM. And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more (Moses and Elijah leave heaven and come to Earth shortly after the Rapture), save Jesus only with themselves."
Luke 9:28-35 says, "it came to pass ABOUT AN EIGHT DAYS (i.e., about 8 years) after these sayings, HE TOOK PETER AND JOHN AND JAMES, AND WENT UP into a mountain to pray. And as he prayed, the fashion of his countenance was altered, and his raiment was white and glistering. And, behold, there talked with him two men, which were Moses and Elias: Who appeared IN GLORY (i.e., in Heaven)....THERE CAME A CLOUD, and overshadowed them: and they feared as THEY ENTERED INTO THE CLOUD. And there came A VOICE OUT OF THE CLOUD, SAYING THIS IS MY BELOVED SON: HEAR HIM" (we will hear him saying, "Come up hither" at the Rapture, Rev. 4:1).
The main things that are different are "after six days" and "about an eight days." Seven good years and seven bad years seem to have started when the Oslo Accords were signed or ratified in Sept. 1993. If we start to mark off the years when the Oslo Accords were ratified in Israel, Tishri 1, 5754 (Sept. 16, 1993), the 6th year is 5760, the 8th 5762 (the present year).
Starting from 5754 (1993/1994)
1st year, 5755 (1994/1995)
2st year, 5756 (1995/1996)
3st year, 5757 (1996/1997)
4st year, 5758 (1997/1998)
5st year, 5759 (1998/1999)
6th year, 5760 (1999/2000)
7th year, 5761 (2000/2001)
8th year, 5762 (2001/2002)
It looks like this indicates that the Rapture will be about 5762 (2001/2002). Why does it say "about an eight days"? It could be because the Rapture will come before the 8th year is completed. That seems to place the Rapture between now and Tishri 1, 5763 (Sept. 7, 2002).
If I am right about the Second Advent on Nisan 1, 5768, counting backward by Jewish inclusive reckoning, the 2300 days (Dan. 8:13,14) would start Dec. 19, 2001.
What upcoming dates might seem likely before that? Kislev 25 (Dec. 10) is Hanukkah, the Festival of Lights. Our lights are to be kept burning brightly. Jesus indicated that the Rapture was as the days of Noah. Jesus may come "as the rain" (Hos. 6:3) at the Rapture. The 40th day of the rain in Noah's day will be Dec. 12/13.
> > two witnesses in Rev 11:4 and if these are the men selling oil to the foolish virgins.
They will be the main ones telling people what they should do (repent and confess their sins) to be filled with the Holy Spirit. Zech. 4:12-14 says, "What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil (symbol of the Holy Spirit) out of themselves? And he answered me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord. Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by the Lord of the whole earth." Christ is "the Lord of the whole earth" and has been ever since man was on Earth. He is the first and the last, Lord of the Old Testament and Lord of the New Testament, both the root and the offspring of David (Rev. 22:13,16). As John the Baptist preached repentance, Elijah will preach repentance.
There will be others preaching repentance and confession of sins. In Rev. 3:20-22, the Laodicean foolish virgins are told, "Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches." When these get to Heaven at the 2nd Rapture, they will "have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." Agape
Just some thoughts. I'm really trying to understand all this stuff.
I have watched in sadness as some ministers were tarred over even suggesting that the terrorist attacks might have been a sign from God, particularly due to our culpability. I see an apparent fulfillment of the Scripture, as the righteous are repenting and many are accepting Christ Jesus, while at the same time, many wicked people are excluding God, and continuing even more so in their wicked ways. The way some have reacted to ministers calling for repentance, rather than remembrance, has shocked me. It brings to my mind those Scriptures which deall with the death of the prophets at the hands of those who were called upon to repent.
Marilyn, I am not certain, but it appears that Satan has always been a covetous creature. He always wants to not only be like God, but to be more than God. Which may help explain the Islam religion. For years, I have believed that the god of Islam, is actually Satan and the Devil himself. Now even more so. Satan even went so far as to require that he be addressed as "God" or Allah, in the arabic tongue.
So, it wouldn't surprise me, if the rider in Rev. 6:2, is actually a Muslim. After all, they definitely have the "bow" or piece of cloth. The Catholic Church, for all its faults, no longer has as a goal, worldwide conquering of nations, which is definitely a requirement of this first rider as stated in Rev. 6:2. However, a scary number of the 1.2 billion Muslims today, view world domination, thus conquering of nations, as a given, and as a requirement of their faith.
And if Muslims came to substantial power in this world, does anyone really believe they would leave the world's headquarters, i.e., the U.N., in New York? Hardly. New York is an infidel city in an infidel country. Defiled, even if under their rule. Muslims would most likely demand that it be placed, in a Muslim country. And what better place, than in the country of their misunderstood and mistreated brothers, the Iraqis. And what city has the most sacred appeal there? Babylon.
However, I have a few extremely nagging doubts in my head regarding today's Babylon, as the Babylon mentioned in Rev. From a construction point of view, it is physically impossible to build the type of structure and infrastructure in Babylon, that would let it meet the criteria of Rev. 18, within the next 7 years. It's impossible, Marilyn, from a construction and economic point of view. That doesn't even take into account the fact that Babylon has no viable waterways. None. So, unless Saddam Hussein has somehow just plugged 100 trillion dollars into Babylon for economic improvement over the last 10 years, without "letting the cat out of the bag", the literal Babylon of today can't fulfill Rev. 18. So, that means that 1. our timeline is way off, or 2. Babylon in Rev. 18 is a code word, from God's perspective, refering to another city-state. When the Bible speaks of cities, oftentimes it refers to the entire country-state. Marilyn, there is only one city in the world that fulfills all of the criteria of Rev. 18 today, and that is New York City. There are no others. None. Period. Certainly, in the distant future, there could be another great city like NYC, but not now, and not in our lifetimes, or the next 100 years. Now if God wants to intervene with supernatural processes, that's ok with me. But outside of having God suspend what we know as natural laws, using supernatural laws, I don't see how there could ever be a viable Babylon, Iraq, which fulfills Rev. 18. I mean, there's just no longer enough time, Marilyn. Also, I did a crude word study on New York, and found that the word York, is distantly related to the words, Jew and Yah. I am not saying that this has any bearing here, as I am not a scholar, but it did make me sit back and think a bit more.
Another thought, in Rev. 18:21, the angel uses the comparison of a millstone being cast into the sea, as describing how that great city Babylon will be destroyed. Jesus also used a millstone to make a point about causing little ones to stumble. He suggested that it would be better for big people if they hung a millstone around their necks and cast it into the midst of the sea (commit suicide), than to cause a little one to stumble. The terrorist attacks in NYC were carried out by suicide terrorists.
Also, in Rev. 18:24, the angel states that "And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth." The U.N. in New York City has legal representatives of every country in the world.
All this being said, I am not dogmatic that it has to be NYC. It may be that Rev. 11:8 is a major key, and that when it refers to "spiritually" it is refering to more than intangibles and character. This may refer to God's perspective in totality, since words like "like" or "as" are not used. Which may explain why there will be a New Jerusalem, because the old one, in God's eyes at this time, no longer exists.
Of course, I realize that if New York City is the Babylon of Rev. 18, that many, if not all, of our "charts" would have to be redone. Which, is ok with me. I just want to know the truth.
I also have great difficulty conceptualizing another item in your chronology. Specifically, Armageddon, where you indicated that Satan's forces will fight against Christ's forces. Again, outside of some supernatural ability on the part of Satan's forces, I still don't see this clearly. I am assuming that Satan's forces will be those of nations, peoples. While Christ's army will be his angels and raptured saints - a supernatural group. Now, I have relatives in the armed services, and I can pretty safely assure you that no commander is going to send his forces, etc., to do battle with a supernatural force or army - unless of course there is a belief that the force is going to eliminate their race/culture (as in The War of the Worlds type scenario). It would just be silly to send troops to fight supernatural beings. So, I am curious. What are you really refering to when you state that Satan's army will fight against Christ's army?
So, finally, I don't have many answers, but I do have a lot of questions. I just keep thinking we are missing a clue which is so obvious that we can't even see it. Maybe we will soon know fully, even as we are fully known. God bless you
First, you said,
> > I have a question regarding the army from the East (China), numbering 200,000,000 which is discussed in the book of Revelations.
The following scriptures have to do with this army. It probably means ALL kings (plural) of the east, not just China.
Concerning the 6th trumpet, Rev. 9:14-17 reads, "Loose the four angels which are bound in THE GREAT RIVER EUPHRATES (east of Israel). And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men. And the number of the ARMY OF THE HORSEMEN (demon-possessed men) were TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND THOUSAND: and I heard the number of them. And thus I saw the horses in the vision, and them that sat on them, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone.
Concerning the 6th vial, Rev. 16:12 says, "THE GREAT RIVER EUPHRATES; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the KINGS (plural) OF THE EAST might be prepared."
Rev. 16:16 says, "he gathered them ('THE KINGS OF THE...WHOLE WORLD,' v. 14) together into a place called in the Hebrew Armageddon."
Then you said,
> > I certainly can see that size army today, but I was wondering: If there are plagues, wars, etc., etc., which will wipe out roughly half or more of the world population before the 200,000,000 man army comes onto the scene, how will they field such an army, unless other areas of the earth (e.g., North and South America, et al) are fairly cleanly wiped off of life? I can't see them fielding that size of an army if they lost half their population. Unless of course, by East, the Bible refers to India as well. I'm just curious.
On some things, we have to guess. I take it that the kings of the whole world and their armies will head for the place called Armageddon. All countries east of the Euphrates would be included under the kings (plural) of the east. Armies would also come from the north, south and west. They all have 7 months to recover what they can from the worldwide earthquake and send as many men as possible by any available means, including by ship or plane from the Americas. The 2nd vial says that "every living soul died in the sea." This is just in the Mediterranean Sea, where the "great mountain burning with fire" of Rev. 8:8 hits (Zeph. 2:4,5). After the "great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp" of Rev. 8:10 destroys Babylon, "every shipmaster, and all the company in ships, and sailors, and as many as trade by sea, stood afar off" (Rev. 18:17). There are still ocean-going ships. There may be planes that make it through the worldwide earthquake too. So far, I haven't heard of any planes destroyed by earthquakes. They may take it better than buildings pinned to the shaking earth. Of those, every wall will fall (Eze. 38:20).
One thing we don't have to guess about is the outcome of the battle. Rev. 19:19,20 says, "I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone."
Now I'd better look over whatever else you said this time, or I'll be missing something again. :-)
> > The way some have reacted to ministers calling for repentance, rather than remembrance, has shocked me. It brings to my mind those Scriptures which deall with the death of the prophets at the hands of those who were called upon to repent.
I know what you mean. This has polarized many people. Some have turned to God and repented. It has caused others to reveal their lack of faith in God. Makes me think of these verses:
Deu 30:19: "I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I HAVE SET BEFORE YOU LIFE AND DEATH, blessing and cursing: therefore CHOOSE life, that both thou and thy seed may live."
Jos 24:15: "if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY WHOM YE WILL SERVE; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: BUT AS FOR ME AND MY HOUSE, WE WILL SERVE THE LORD." Amen to that last part.
> > For years, I have believed that the god of Islam, is actually Satan and the Devil himself.
It's either Satan or devils. Of pagan religions, Deu 32:17 plainly says, "They sacrificed unto DEVILS, not to God; to gods whom they knew not, to new gods that came newly up, whom your fathers feared not."
> > The Catholic Church, for all its faults, no longer has as a goal, worldwide conquering of nations
Are you sure? There is some hidden segment spoken of in Rev. 2:24 as "the depths of Satan, as they speak." Satan would have conquering the world as a goal. He will use anyone he can as a stepping stone to get to the point where he can inhabit the False Prophet.
> > And if Muslims came to substantial power in this world
I think the False Prophet will be a Jew, not an Arab. Dan. 11:37 says, "Neither shall he regard the God of HIS FATHERS." I can't see the Israelis accepting anyone as Messiah that is not Jewish.
> > From a construction point of view, it is physically impossible to build the type of structure and infrastructure in Babylon, that would let it meet the criteria of Rev. 18, within the next 7 years. It's impossible, Marilyn, from a construction and economic point of view....there is only one city in the world that fulfills all of the criteria of Rev. 18 today, and that is New York City. There are no others. None. Period....I don't see how there could ever be a viable Babylon, Iraq, which fulfills Rev. 18. I mean, there's just no longer enough time
I'm not about to argue with God. In my head, if he says it, it will come to pass exactly as he states. Don't forget that all "the kings of the earth" (Rev. 18:9) are involved with building this city. Vatican City is to be moved there (Zech. 5:5-11).
in Jer. 50:1f, we have "The word that the LORD spake against Babylon and AGAINST THE LAND OF THE CHALDEANS (Iraq) by Jeremiah the prophet." The next verse is the one I saw a rectangle of light on. It says, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."
Isa. 13:1f ties in. It gives "The burden of Babylon" and describes events in the "day of the LORD" (v. 9). V. 13 says, "I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger." Then verses 19 and 20 say, "And Babylon, the glory of kindoms, the beaty of the CHALDEES' excellency, SHALL BE AS WHEN GOD OVERTHREW SODOM AND GOMORRAH. IT SHALL NEVER BE INHABITED, neither shall it be dwelt in from generation to generation: NEITHER SHALL THE ARABIAN PITCH TENT THERE." This has not happened yet, and the Arabian is not likely to pitch tent in NYC.
Back to Jer. 50. Verse 13 says, "BECAUSE OF THE WRATH OF THE LORD IT SHALL NOT BE INHABITED, but it shall be WHOLLY DESOLATE: every one that goeth by BABYLON shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues." V. 25 says, "The LORD hath opened his armoury, and hath brought forth the weapons of his indignation (the asteroids): for this is the work of the Lord GOD of hosts IN THE LAND OF THE CHALDEANS." The land of the Chaldeans is Babylon, not NYC. When it is destroyed, no one will ever live there again.
> > The U.N. in New York City has legal representatives of every country in the world.
And if the headquarters of the OWG were built at Babylon, it would also have reps from every country in the world. This would free up the UN twin towers in NYC to be used as the WTC in NYC. Just clearing the rubble of the destroyed WTC is supposed to take a year, not counting rebuilding those towers. Those business offices that were in the WTC are badly in need of spaces to operate in.
> > words like "like" or "as" are not used
That is because this Babylon actually is where the Tower of Babel was, in the land of Shinar (Gen. 11:2), where Vatican City will be moved. The world church, "MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH" (Rev. 17:5) will be "SET THERE UPON HER OWN BASE" (Zech. 5:11), where the Tower of Babel stood.
> > Armageddon, where you indicated that Satan's forces will fight against Christ's forces. Again, outside of some supernatural ability on the part of Satan's forces, I still don't see this clearly. I am assuming that Satan's forces will be those of nations, peoples....I am curious. What are you really refering to when you state that Satan's army will fight against Christ's army?
Satan, his fallen angels, and unsaved people will all be in that fight that I call Satan's last ditch stand. R.B. Thieme is convinced that each of us will bump one demon. That remains to be seen, but I have often wondered if the saved of mankind will in the end equal the number of the fallen angels. Will we replace them in the government of God?
It's after midnight. No time to proofread. Hope you can understand what I am trying to say. Blessings and agape
Pro and Con 834 Or Return
Contact me for more information at: firstname.lastname@example.org
8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110
© 1996-2001, Marilyn J. Agee