Pro and Con 838

Posted 11-24-01

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Incoming email

I just have to try this one more time:

> > "Those would fit, but when I turn to Psa. 18:7-20, I see the 2nd Rapture on the Day of God's Wrath. That doesn't fit with 18 representing the 6th month of 2002".

I know what the problem is and why you can not see this. You are forgetting the verse in Isaiah, " here a little and there a little". As I said before, you are trying to make every verse fit. They don't precisely so the wicked will not see it.

You said
> > that you see how some fit then you go to the next verse and say that this doesn't fit because of so and so reason.

What you are doing is throwing out the baby with the bath water. If you don't mind, one more time go to psalm 54 which would be the month of june 2005. In verse 6 it says, " I will freely sacrifice unto thee: I will praise thy name, O Lord; for it is good." Here is mid-trib and they are doing animal sacrifices. Now look at psalm 55. Now look at verse 6-7: (6) And I said, Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest. (7) Lo, then would I wander far off, and remain in the wilderness." To me this is them heading off to Petra. You might say thats a rapture verse but it could fit both. I believe only those who have excepted Christ will go to Petra. Then they would be filled full of the Holy Spirit. Its to late to be in the bride group but Petra is almost like us being protected in Heaven, they will just be on earth.

Now verse 20 and 21 in my opinion is plain as day. It talks about the Ac breaking his covenant with the Jews and how he is a smooth talker but war is in his mouth. Again remember this is the psalm that fits with the month's that are right at mid-trib.

And one more I want you to look at. Psalm 89 corressponds with the month of May 2008. Christ has just been anointed King of Kings on April 6, 2008 as you say. Now what is the first thing he will do after that. Of course he will set King David up in Jerusalem. Verse's 1 thru 7 have King David being placed on the thrown and ruling for all generations, future and past.

It has the assembly of the saints in Heaven with God round about him. Check out verse 20. Here he is anointing David. Verse 32 has him ruling with a "rod of iron" which is definately a factor in the 1000 year rein. Verse 29 has Davids throne enduring forever as his seed, "as the days of Heaven". This is forever. The beginning of eternity.

I hope this helps. Remember however to not throw out all verses because some don't fit. It's "here a little and there a little." "Lord I pray that you open Mrs. Agee's eye's and those of others to see this." Agape

My reply

OK. Let's test it some more. The place that the date is sure is Psa. 81:3: "Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day" (Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1). I think it will be Tishri 1, 5768, our Sept. 13, 2007. Psa. 81 on your chart equals Sept. 2007.

Eze. 39:12,13 shows that there are 7 Jewish months from that Day of God's Wrath (Tishri 1) to the Second Advent (the following Nisan 1), when he returns in glory. The Jews bury the bodies to cleanse the land for the Lord to return in glory. The year 5768 is a Jewish Leap Year with 13 months, so it fits this 7-month span. If it was not a leap year, there would only be 6 months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1.

1. Tishri = chapter 81 = Sept. 2007
2. Cheshvan = chapter 82 = Oct. 2007
3. Kislev = chapter 83 = Nov. 2007
4. Teveth = chapter 84 = Dec. 2007
5. Shevat = chapter 85 = Jan. 2008
6. Adar I = chapter 86 = Feb. 2008
7. Adar II = chapter 87 = Mar. 2008

Adar II would end as Nisan 1, 5768 started on Apr. 6, 2008. Nisan = chapter 88 = Apr. 2008

Chapter 88 should mention Christ as King. It doesn't. Verse 7 says, "Thy wrath lieth hard upon me, and thou hast afflicted me with all they waves." I can't see how we could slide over to chapter 89, because we anchored Tishri as chapter 81. If we made 89 Apr. 2008, and counted back 7 months, we would miss Tishri by one month. I can't see that. Either it fits or it doesn't. To me, if the Lord intended to set this up as you suggest, he wouldn't miss by one month in either direction.

However, this is built on my understanding of Tishri 1 being the Day of God's Wrath, also of Nisan 1 being the Second Advent. Eze. 39:12,13 gives the 7 months between the 2 dates. If I'm wrong, that would throw the results. I'll give some of the scriptures that make me believe these are the dates to go by.

Mal. 2:3 says, "YOUR SOLEMN FEASTS; AND ONE SHALL TAKE YOU AWAY WITH IT." Joel 1:15 says, "the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and AS A DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY SHALL IT COME." To me, that means that the millennial Day of the Lord begins with the day of destruction, which is the Day of God's Wrath. Joel 2:1-3 speaks of blowing the "trumpet" and then says, "the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand." It starts at 6 PM on the last day of this age. Joel 2:3 mentions the "thick darkness" and the great army attacking Israel (Gog's army, Eze. 38). The Lord will step in and fight for Israel on that day. Zech. 14:1-3 speaks of "the day of the LORD" coming, the armies of "all nations" coming against Jerusalem. "Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as WHEN HE FOUGHT IN THE DAY OF BATTLE" (Joshua's Long Day).

Jesus is Joshua from the Hebrew. Jesus' Long Day was prefigured by Joshua's Long Day. Josh. 10:11 says, " it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that THE LORD CAST DOWN GREAT STONES FROM HEAVEN upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword." This is what will happen to stop Gog's army.

It is fitting and logical that the 7 trumpet judgments be cast on Earth on the Feast of Trumpets. I see no other feast that would fit the many references to the trumpet on that day.

I think Eze. 29:17,21 and Hos. 6:3 show that the Lord will return on Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year and Sacred Year. I can't see how this Tishri 1 and this Nisan 1 could change. Agape

Incoming e-mail with my comments interspersed and marked ***

From: TMP
Subject: definitions to meet your doctrine
A 'proof' is dependent upon the objective collection of information concerning the 'statement of truth' in question. MJ, I believe you are too quick to 'prove' your statements and are using extremely thin, and ultimately deceptive use of Scripture, its' translation and transliteration.

Your proof of the 'rapture' theory as a historical and Biblical fact does not hold. Your research is assumptive and does not lend itself to factual replication.

As background, below you'll see that I, for one, do not accept your translations and transliterations from modern Latin to be from implementing a method of 'deep' research. As examples: "caught up" from 1st Thessalonians Ch 4:17 does not transliterate as the action necessary to enable souls to fly to the sky. The Greek translation is closer to a simultaneous collection and instantaneous transfiguration from flesh to spirit with no reference to 'flight'.

***The literal translation (LITV) of I Thess. 4:17 says, "Because the Lord Himself shall come down from Heaven with a commanding shout of an archangel's voice, and with God's trumpet. And the dead in Christ will rise again first. Then we who remain alive will be caught up (726 harpazo, from a derivative of 138; to seize, take for oneself; catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force) together with them in the clouds to a meeting with the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord."

"air" does not transliterate as ' the sky'. The transliteration is closer to the blissful sigh and spirit of eternal life (i.e. breath of eternal life).

***Right here, you are cutting yourself off from understanding. If the foundation is wrong, what is built on it will probably be wrong also. "Aer" is air, what we breathe, as naturally circumambient. It splits at the equator and swirls north and south from that point as the globe rotates. Paul was not talking about "the spirit of eternal life," he was talking about atmospheric air.

***Instead of explaining the correct meaning, you are trying to explain it away. Why? don't you want to know the truth? or are you allowing yourself to be told what to believe by the Preterists, as if they were right and no one else is?

***It is not reasonable to believe that all prophecy, even of Revelation, was fulfilled in 70 AD, as the Preterists do. If that was so, why was Revelation written as if it were still future in 96 AD. If what the Preterists teach was true, don't you think Revelation would have been written as an account of past history? Don't you think that Daniel 9:24 would not show that making "an end of sins" was to coincide with the end of the 70th week of Daniel? If sins were ended in 70 AD, there would be no sin today. There would have been no world wars, no crime, no Jews gassed by Hitler, no Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Osama Bin Laden would not have masterminded the airplane crashes into the WTC towers or the Pentagon.

"cloud" does not transliterate 'cloud' as in a vapor collection, i.e. cumulus. The translation is closer to the English "multitudes" or "swarm". (multitudes returning in white robes would look like a cloud, swarm of white, white dust cloud, particles)

***Strong's says, "properly, cloudiness, i.e. (concretely) a cloud:--cloud." I Thess. 4:17 (LITV) says, "Then we who remain alive will be caught up together with them in the clouds to a meeting with the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord." Those that are alive and those that have just gotten their resurrection bodies "will be caught up together" to meet the Lord in the air, regardless of whatever you think clouds are.

Chronological reading of the verses in 1st and 2nd Thessalonians (and other references you quote) do not serve to confirm your "timeline" or the course of events as they are actually listed and repeated (minimum 3 times) in Scripture.

Examples: Christ's return does not precede the last Trump (shout) from Heaven. The trump is an announcement 'prior' to and of (announcing) his coming. This 7th trump (final shout at Christ's return following a 1/2 hour of silence in Heaven) announces the immediate impending judgement of all men who are to be simultaneously transfigured at Christ's return (the good and the bad, see the parable of the wheat and the tares). Also please recall, Paul specifically noted that man cannot look upon God while in earthly or 'flesh' bodies (2nd Corinthians, Ch 5, vs 6: "Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord"). At the 7th trump all mankind will be transfigured from the flesh bodies in preparation for Christ's judgement (again, separating the wheat from the tares, see the parable), until then we must be absent (cannot be with) the Lord while in the flesh. AT the 7th Trump, MJ not a second sooner.

***If you are not in Heaven before the "7th Trump," you are among the lost that stay on Earth and receive the 7 trumpet judgments of God's Wrath. There are not just one, but two Raptures BEFORE any of the 7 trumpet judgments are cast on Earth by the judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven. The 1st Rapture is before the 70th week of Daniel begins when the 1st seal is broken. The 2nd Rapture is before the Wrath of God is cast on unbelievers when the 7th seal is broken. Those 7 judgments are God's Wrath. We are not to be here to experience the Wrath of God. 1Th 5:9 (LITV) says, "God has NOT APPOINTED US TO WRATH."

***The way I see it, unless you die first, you have only 2 chances to be taken to Heaven before God's Wrath falls on unbelievers left behind on Earth, the Pre-Trib Rapture or the Pre-Wrath Rapture. You can be among the group "out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation" that stand before the throne of God when Jesus Christ is given the 7-sealed Title Deed of the Earth (Rev. 5:9, KJV), or you can be among the "great multitude, which no man could number, of ALL nations, and kindreds, and people" of Rev. 7:9. "These are they which came OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION" just before the 7th seal is removed from the Title Deed of the Earth in Rev. 8:1.

***All saints, OT, Church and Tribulation saints, from the small to the great saints, will be in Heaven receiving their rewards while God's Wrath is cast on unbelievers left on Earth. Rev 11:18 (LITV) says, "And the nations were full of wrath; and YOUR WRATH CAME, and the TIME OF THE JUDGING of the dead, AND TO GIVE THE REWARD TO Your slaves, to the prophets, and to THE SAINTS, and to the ones fearing Your name, to the SMALL AND to the GREAT, and to destroy (with God's Wrath) those destroying the earth."

***Jesus does not return at the Second Advent until 7 months after the Day of God's Wrath (Eze. 38:18-20). Eze. 39:1-4,12,13 says, "I am against thee, O Gog, the chief prince of Meshech and Tubal: And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel: And I will smite thy bow out of thy left hand, and will cause thine arrows to fall out of thy right hand. Thou shalt fall upon the mountains of Israel, thou, and all thy bands, and the people that is with thee: I will give thee unto the ravenous birds of every sort, and to the beasts of the field to be devoured....And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD." Christ is glorified at the Second Advent.

...Please don't respond with your traditional view of the 'judgement seat' of Christ transliteration which rapturist time designate as before the 7th Trump sounds using the Van Impe transliteration of 'judgement seat' which is too weak to effectively argue in support of your tradition. 'Judgement seat' transliterated appropriately references an 'action' (step forward in judgement) or simply 'stepping forward to make judgement at the 7th Trump. The 'berma' throne, Olympian chair, in the stadium explanation for 'judgement seat' offered by Van Impe is the weakest "sit down" grab possible. Christ IS the judgement a 'seat' of government would be viewed...Christ is not reclining in the berma 'chair'.

***I have no idea what Van Impe says, and I go by Scripture, not tradition. On Earth, our judges are seated during a reverent silence. It makes sense to me that Christ would be seated during a similar silence. Rev.8:1 says, "there was SILENCE IN HEAVEN about the space of half an hour." Hab. 2:19,20 says, "Woe unto him (False Prophet) that saith to the wood, Awake; to the dumb stone, Arise, it shall teach! Behold, it is laid over with gold and silver, and there is no breath at all in the midst of it. But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the EARTH KEEP SILENCE before him." 2nd Thessalonians, 2 vs 3 "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (Christ's return) shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition."

The chronological recitation is clearly:
1. Don't be deceived by any man
2. Christ's day of return will not come before (until)
3. The church begins worshiping the wrong god (apostate church, falling away)
4. the man of sin (Satan) is revealed, the son of perdition (emphasized).

The church falls away: Satan is revealed: (THEN) Christ returns: (ONLY Then) not before then. The appropriate transliteration clearly establishes that Christ does not precede Satan as pre-trib rapurist are convoluting the translations, transliterations and the chronology.

***2Th 2:1-3 (World English Bible, WEB) says, "Now, brothers (believers), concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and OUR GATHERING TOGETHER TO HIM (THE RAPTURE), we ask you not to be quickly shaken in your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by letter as from us, saying that the day of Christ (major MSS have Day of the Lord, i.e., the Millennium) had come. Let no one deceive you in any way. For it will not be, unless THE DEPARTURE (RAPTURE) COMES FIRST, and the man of sin is revealed (second), the son of destruction" (the False Prophet).

An important point on the word deceived from the above verse is specifically addressed in Ezk. Chapter 13. It seems appropriate to the goal of your web site.

In Ezk, Chapter 13 vs.19, God is direct about his anger toward those who pollute (deceive) his people for financial reward.

***That excludes me. I do what I do because I saw a rectangle of light on Jer. 50:2. It says, "Declare ye among the nations, and publish, and set up a standard; publish, and conceal not: say, Babylon is taken, Bel is confounded, Merodach is broken in pieces; her idols are confounded, her images are broken in pieces."

In vs. 20 he states clearly how angry he is: King James 1611 (not revised version) "Wherefore thus saith the Lord God: Behold, I am against your pillows (restraints), wherewith ye there hunt the souls to make them fly, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that you hunt to make them fly."

Jack Van Impe and other rapturist are quick to say that the transliteration for the word fly is "mystical charms"...another very weak grab. The transliteration is "flight... as on the wings of a bird".

***I have no idea what Van Impe says. Ezk. 13:18 (Septuagint, LXX, used in 30 AD) says, "thou shalt say, Thus saith the Lord, Woe to the women that sew pillows (i.e., to put them) under every elbow, and make kerchiefs on the head of every stature to pervert souls!" The "false prophetesses made cushions to lean on, as a symbolical act, typifying the perfect tranquility which they foretold to those consulting them" (JFB).

***Verse 20 (LXX) says, "thus saith the Lord God, Behold, I am against your pillows, whereby ye there confound souls, and I will tear them away from your arms, and will set at liberty their souls which ye pervert to scatter them."

Your continued reference to your Latin version of the Bible is incredibly weak. Turn to Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic, and Chaldese the languages of the times of the Old and New Testament. You suggested to a respondent that if he wanted to 'speak' Greek...he should, in effect, go for it. You were sticking to Latin. MJ, Paul taught using colloquial Greek and wrote (or dictated to his scribe) in colloquial Greek not in Latin. So MJ, if you want to place the middle language Latin in place your transliterations are following this sequence: Greek to Latin and then Latin to English (or 3rd generation). I'll stay with the Greek. You added step represents far more risk for error.

***If you don't like knowing that the word Rapture came into English from the Latin Bible's exact form of the word--"rapiemur," you don't have to go by that. Maybe you would rather go by the more general Webster's Dictionary. It says, "rapture / 'rap-cher / n [L raptus]."

The other weak validations you often offer mirror your following statement which was cut and pasted here from your web site: This you offered as proof of the theory Rapture.

***I don't think it is "proof of the theory Rapture." The Bible gives the proof of two Raptures. Preterists keep saying that the Rapture was not taught until 1830. That is not true. Read Pseudo-Ephraem's sermon, which was c. 374-627.

"I have an approx. 1500-word sermon written by Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627) of Syria" included the word rapiemir (from your Latin Bible)L raptus

***Thanks for calling my attention to an error I made. I spelled it "rapiemir" when it should be rapiemur. I changed it on P & C 572. (If anyone runs across other misspellings of rapeimur, please let me know where they are.)

***The Vulgate, copied online from Bible Browser at has for I Thess. 4:17, "deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul RAPIEMUR cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus." Rapiemur is spelled the same in the book I have, "Greek Latin English New Testament Students' Workbook," where 4 complete versions are printed on its facing pages.

Rather than respond directly here, I'll refer to the work done by Dave McPherson who does understand the importance of meticulous research. Refering to the P-E sermon you referenced:
In Section 2, P-E says that the only event that's "imminent" is "the advent of the wicked one" (that is, Antichrist). Nevertheless, Grant Jeffrey in his 1995 book, FINAL WARNING, had the audacity to claim that P-E "began with the Rapture using the word 'imminent'" and added in the next sentence that "Ephraem used the word 'imminent' to describe the Rapture." (If he and other P-E promoters can look at a coming of Antichrist and see a coming of "Christ," is it any wonder that in his endtime view folks will look at Antichrist and see "Christ"? [MJ are you setting folks up for a great deception?]

***No. Are you?

Ephraim the Syrian, reportedly P-E's inspiration, said the same thing (SERMO SCETICUS, I): "Nothing remains then, except that the coming of our enemy, Antichrist, appear...." (Nobody's ever found even a trace of pretrib in this earlier work!) [MJ should D. McPherson check with you?] see reference at:

***This is what Pseudo-Ephraim said, judge for yourself:

***In his approx. 1500 word sermon, "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World," Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627 AD) said, "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins." (Alexander, Paul J. "The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition [Berkeley: Univ. of CA Press, 1985] p. 210).

***"Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and PREPARE OURSELVES FOR THE MEETING OF THE LORD CHRIST, SO THAT HE MAY DRAW US FROM THE CONFUSION, WHICH OVERWHELMS ALL THE WORLD? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: 'Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord?' FOR ALL THE SAINTS AND ELECT OF GOD ARE GATHERED, PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION THAT IS TO COME, AND ARE TAKEN TO THE LORD LEST THEY SEE THE CONFUSION THAT IS TO OVERWHELM THE WORLD BECAUSE OF OUR SINS."

***"And there will be a great tribulation, as there has not been since people began to be on earth...and no one is able to sell or buy of the grain of the harvest, unless he is the one who has the serpentine sign sign on the forehead or the hand. And when the three and a half years have been completed, the time of the Antichrist, through which he will have seduced the world, after the resurrection of the two prophets, in the hour which the world does not know and on the day which the enemy or the son of perdition does not know, will come the sign of the Son of Man, and coming forward the Lord shall appear with great power and much majesty, with the sign of salvation going before him, and also even with all the powers of the heavens with the whole chorus of the saints".

I searched your Latin word for Rapture; 'rapiemir' using the Oxford University Lexicon and the interesting finds are cut and pasted below: Charlton T. Lewis, Charles Short, A Latin Dictionary
Search for dictionary headwords
Nothing found for "rapiemir"

hmmmmmmmmmmmm why isn't your word found in the classic Latin Dictionary?

***Probably because I misspelled it. Try "rapiemur."

I then reversed the search and asked for any Latin words which used "rapture" in their definitions. I noted with interest that a word used in the Latin Vulgate (I'm assuming that is what you reference as your 'Latin Bible') is referenced as appearing here Vulg. Eccli. 45, 29 . Interesting that I was delivered to Genesis, Chapter 1 vs. 12 as follows:

"faciens fructum et habens unumquodque sementem secundum " Genesis 1: 12 Not Thessalonians 1 or 2. Still giving you the benefit of the doubt I the went to your Latin Bible (the Vulgate) and searched your reference for the Rapture, 'rapiemir' in 1 Thessalonians Ch 4 vs 16 where "caught up" is included in the verse...In Latin it reads as follows and nothing approaches your reference "rapiemir"! [16] quoniam ipse Dominus in iussu et in voce archangeli et in tuba Dei descendet de caelo et mortui qui in Christo sunt resurgent primi

*** TRY LOOKING UP VERSE 17 INSTEAD OF 16. I Thess. 4:17 in the Vulgate says, "deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul RAPIEMUR cum illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus."

again no reference or support for proof statements... indicating they have no argumentative merit and are false statements. Accuracy is a must...

Margaret MacDonald in 1830 coined the use of the word rapture and the theory behind it.

***Oh, so now Darby had nothing to do with it? :-)

The Irvingites, Plymouth Brethren, Drummond, Moody, Schofield, Lindsey, Van Impe, Hinn, Agee (you) and others collectively continue to build 'tradition' for human hope that offers false comfort...

***Since you are looking for the appearing of the Antichrist, what is your blessed hope? Tit 2:13 says, "Looking for that BLESSED HOPE, and the glorious APPEARING OF THE GREAT GOD AND OUR SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST." I Thess. 4:18 says, "COMFORT one another with these words." What is comforting about looking for the Tribulation and the appearing of the Antichrist?

I Thess. 5:9,11 says, "For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation (soteria, RESCUE) by our Lord Jesus Christ....Wherefore COMFORT yourselves together, and edify one another."

***In Luke 21:36, the Lord said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE (ekpheugo, to flee out:--escape) all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." What do you think you might escape from if you pray always that ye may be accounted worthy to escape?

***"Ekpheugo," ESCAPE," is also used in these scriptures:
***Rom. 2:3: "thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt ESCAPE the judgment of God?"
***II Cor. 11:33: "through a window in a basket was I let down by the wall, and ESCAPED his hands."
***I Thess. 5:3: "when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not ESCAPE."
***Heb. 2:3: "How shall we ESCAPE, if we neglect so great salvation (soteria, RESCUE); which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him."

In essence, you 'teach' Christians that we need not to prepare mentally, physically, spiritually and prayerfully for the return of Christ. You teach that we'll be safe and will be 'snatched upwardly' and 'fly' to the 'sky' in a protective 'cloud' and be transported to 'heaven' for Christ's personal judgement as He sets in a Heavenly courtroom with gavel in hand determining our status in eternity (private, corporal, general, governor, etc.) Then we'll all have a wedding ceremony a great feast and then head for battle with the Anti-Christ... all preceded by a Margaret MacDonald Rapture which will leave ALL on earth wondering where we Christians flew off to for protection.

***What I think we should do to prepare ourselves for the Rapture is to repent and confess our sins (I John 1:9), so we will be wearing the spiritual white robes of righteousness. We don't want to be naked like the Laodiceans (Rev. 3:18,19). They are to be emesai, vomited, out of Christ's mouth and left here to come to the realization that they should wash their robes in the blood of Christ to make them white (Rev. 7:9).

***What I am praying that I may be accounted worthy to escape is the Tribulation. This will be the "hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell on the Earth" (Rev. 3:10). In the next verse, Jesus said, Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." I am holding fast to my blessed hope, the "escape," "rescue" or Rapture that Jesus promised me. You see, I want my crown.

God specifically defines this teaching as deception. The Scripture below (King James 1611 Bible) repeated and referenced above:

***The word "deception" is not in the KJV.

Thank you for the opportunity to respond to your traditions. Tmp

***I have not gone by traditions, but by the Word of God. You follow Dave McPherson's words. I follow Christ's words. Since Dave's and Christ's words do not agree with one another, I have no other option, but to choose God's Word. Agape

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