Pro and Con 840

Posted 12-1-01

UNITED NATIONS (AP) Secretary-General Kofi Annan on Thursday joined President Bush in calling for a Palestinian state.

Incoming e-mail

Re: Meaning of candlestick in temple

In The Open Scroll article, Psalm-Dating the Events of theFamine Week, Bob Schlenker said, "According to the Jewish historian Josephus (Antiquities of the Jews, book 3, chapter V11:7), the following seven celestial bodies represent the menorah: The Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn."

When speaking of the temple in Ant. III.VII. 7, Josephus said that things "were every one made in way of imitation and representation of the universe." The Holy Place was 2 cubes, representing the first two heavens. They are spheres that would have the same dimensions as their cube box. The Holy of Holies represented Heaven. It's sphere too has the same height, width and breadth as the cube box it would fit in. To me, these 3 cubes show us that our Heaven is the 3rd heaven, the 3rd planet.

Concerning the candlestick, Josephus said, "By branching out the candlestick into seventy parts, he secretly intimated the Decani, or seventy divisions of the planets; and as to the seven lamps upon the candlesticks, they referred to the course of the planets, of which that is the number."

Bob listed these planets as "The Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn," but in Ant. III. VI. 7, Josephus said of the candlestick, "the shaft elevated itself on high from a single base, and spread itself into as many branches as there are planets, including the sun among them....these branches carried seven lamps, one by one, in imitation of the number of the planets."

I take it that the candlestick's lamps represented the Sun, Mercury, Venus, EARTH, Mars, Jupiter and SATURN. These are the naked-eye planets that had been known to man since the early days. Notice that with this configuration, Saturn is our third heaven as in II Cor. 12:2, where Paul was "caught up (harpazo, i.e., as in the Rapture, I Thess. 4:16,17) to the third heaven." The western lamp was always to be kept lit. Therefore, it makes sense that this lamp represented the Sun. Agape

Incoming e-mail

Re. virus
Just thought I should respond to your curreny virus issue. Yesterday (11-25-01), or possibly the day before, I did get an E-mail from you titled "Re. duration of rapture" (or equivalent). I'm not extremely computer-literate: hope I didn't do something wrong. (I was surprised to get the E-mail, because it was in response to something I E-mailed you about a monyh ago, it seems. I didn't get a response at the time.) Anyway, I clicked "read"& it didn't show any message. So, I clicked "download"- maybe a mistake. It still didn't show a message. So, I deleted the E-mail & the "recentlt-deleted" E-mail.After I read your statement about a virus, I went to "my files" & the download was on there (but I still couldn't read any message ), so I deleted that. I compacted files twice (even though I really don't have any other files on it.) After that, I ran the Norton Anti-virus & scanned everything listed. Nothing "infected" showed up. (This is asecond-hand computer & the people who had it had put some kind of "blocker" on it (for "cookies," I think.) So, sometimes I can read what people send & sometimes not, especially if forwarded.)

If you have any further suggestions for me, you can let me know. Maybe this information can be of help to you. Anyway, I thought I should respond, since I did get a very recent E-mail from you (apparently).

The computer scanned everything, but it also said the subscription had run out, so "LiveUpdate" wasn't available.

My reply

If your Anti-virus program has not been updated since September, it may not find this virus, which is a variation of the one that came out last April. You may think you're ok when you are not. If I were you, I would download the FREE AVG Anti-virus program, and run it after each e-mail batch has been scanned for viruses and you have deleted all e-mail with attachments. Here is the URL:

Also, click on the AVG Icon, Click AVG Control Center. Click E-mail scanner tab. Uncheck and then check again "Check incoming messages." Mine was checked but not really activated until I did that. As you select each e-mail in turn, and it finds an e-mail containing a virus, it throws up a red Dialog Box. Wait the necessary seconds you see on the right lower corner. Then it will go away and you can delete the offending e-mail. After you have gone through the batch of mail, scan the whole computer again. From what experience I have had this week, it seems that if you delete 2, then scan, it will find 2 more. Evidently, the virus drops off a copy as soon as you select the mail. After the whole computer scan, they are all gone or healed.

What you want to compact twice is the folders in your e-mail program. On MSOutlook Express, click File, click Folders, click Compact Folders. Do it again. This is to erase all traces of where it had been on your computer. Agape

Incoming e-mail

Re: Got your attachment e-mail, double deleted, didn't open

My hard drive died last Monday. I had insurance, thank goodness. New drive put in Tues. evening. Been working since then to get my back up documents back on hard drive. I was back on line yesterday evening. An e-mail came through from you that had been sent last Monday, 11-26. It had two attachments. I knew you would never do that. I immediately double deleted it.

People that do this need to be imprisoned for life. Love

My reply

You need to trigger your Anti-virus program to scan your computer after deleting all e-mails with attachments--after DL e-mails--every time. I just got a copy of the virus from you besides this e-mail. It seems to drop a copy in the Temporary Internet Folder as soon as we select it. The Antivirus scan seems to find one more for every one I delete, even though AVG finds the virus in the e-mail. Make sure you have them all deleted before triggering the scan. It takes 9 minutes on mine.

If you need the FREE AVG antivirus program, here is the URL:

Incoming e-mail

Re: Inspirational e-mail
I saw an e-mail on your site that touched my heart, and I'm glad you put it there. It was an e-mail about someone who, because of self-condemnation, couldn't quite accept God's gift of salvation through Jesus' sacrifice, and you counseled him into being saved. The feeling this man described, of wanting to laugh and cry at the same time is the Holy Spirt indeed. It gives me joy to see someone saved, and accept God's wonderful unlimited love. God bless you and your work. May Jesus receive all the glory. In Christ

My reply

Thanks. That gives me joy too. The Lord was working with that boy. Agape

Incoming e-mail

Re: Nuts
Whoopie to you - God's Holy Spirit is absolutely phenominal as He guides you in your responses to an uninspired ambush! I don't know who TMP is or what Dave McPherson's propheses are (don't want to know either) - but when somebody out of hand "attacks" someone elses point of view with such rancour - it can only be because his mind is closed to God's compelling love - a fellow Christian who really loves his brother(or sister) does not "attack", but gently asks questions and weighs up the options with an OPEN mind, then takes everytjing back to scripture and throws out what he doesn't feel comfortable with.....but why the note of derision for your effort? I have never felt any hint of discomfort or suspision when reading your P&C's, but the undertone of enmity and derision is prevalent in todays P&C 838 by TMP. Give credit where credit is due - agree to disagree amicably.

Marilyn, what you pointed out is all that counts - ... I am praying that I may be accounted worthy to escape is the Tribulation. This will be the "hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial) which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell on the Earth" (Rev. 3:10). .... Jesus said, Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown." I am holding fast to my blessed hope, the "escape," "rescue" or Rapture that Jesus promised me. You see, I want my crown.

We must comfort each other with these words, not use them as daggers against each other.

Do not loose heart - lets keep our eyes focussed on Christ's return - nothing else matters! In Jesus. Agape

My reply

Don't worry, I won't lose heart. I didn't let that nasty virus beat me, either. I am strong in my faith and think to myself, what next, then go right on finding out whatever I need to learn to carry on. The Lord is my comforter. He smooths the path ahead of me and makes it all possible no matter how it looks at any given moment. The virus cost me time, but no money. Thank you Lord. Agape

Incoming e-mail

I just began reading your post which includes the following statement. As the Tribulation starts, Rev. 13:1 says, "I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast (the great red dragon of Rev. 12:3) rise up out of the sea (nations, Rev. 17:15), having seven heads (leaders of Babel, Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, Rome, Ecclesiastic Rome, and then the False Prophet) and ten horns (kings of 10 regions the world has now been divided into), and upon his horns TEN CROWNS (the 10 kings are in power), and upon his heads the name of blasphemy" (Pontifex Maximus, used by all 7 heads). Here we find that the 10 kings are crowned as the Tribulation begins, at the time that the Tribulation Pope becomes THE BEAST.

Here's a message that I hope that you will read with an open mind, just to see if the Holy Spirit might enlighten you regarding this 7th head, and 10 horns. I attached a study on the meeting of the Sharn El-Sheikh conference for you as well, which reveals who these 10 kings might very well be.

Please forgive me for being a pest, if I am. However, I think you'll find this commentary very interesting either way you look at it.

PS: I was someone who caught your virus.

My reply

Sorry you caught the virus. I'm triggering AVG to scan for viruses after each batch of e-mail comes in and I have deleted the viruses. If 2 come in and are deleted, AVG will still find 2 afterward and heal them. Therefore the virus must drop off a copy just as soon as the e-mail is selected. The extra virus scan is necessary. I tried scanning before selecting mail, and it didn't detect the unselected mail. It has to be done right after they are deleted. England has been the hardest hit. That surprised me for the USA covers more area.


I don't believe it. All 7 empires represented by the statue in Nebuchadnezzar's dream are WORLD EMPIRES, which a "PORTION OF THE MOSLEM EMPIRE " is NOT. The 10 Arab nations are only part of the area the 10 kings will come from. This world has already been divided into its 10 regions. All that is left is to declare who is the "king" of each region. Rev. 17:12 shows that at the time of the Rapture, the "ten kings...have received NO KINGDOM AS YET." However, the saints are ALREADY in Heaven. V. 14 says, "he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that ARE WITH HIM are called, and chosen, and faithful."

The 10 regions of the WHOLE WORLD, as reported by The Cutting Edge Ministries:
...the New World Order Plan has divided the world into 10 Super Nations (See NEWS1002), and has nearly completed the reorganization. Briefly, the entire world has been reorganized into 10 Super Nations, as listed below:


l. North America
2. Western Europe
3. Japan
4. Australia, South Africa, and the rest of the market-economy of the developed world
5. Eastern Europe, including Russia
6. Latin America
7. North Africa and the Middle East
8. Tropical Africa
9. South and Southeast Asia
10. China
It was in the book "Mankind At The Turning Point." Agape

Incoming e-mail

From: Finland
Re: "pseudo Ephraim"
I looked for the "pseudo Ephraim" link from your main site, but could not find. Do you happen to have it there somewhere. Some years ago I translated it - sure was odd sounding and difficult english. Yet I think it was truly a prophetic vision with awesome details. (but it went with mye old computer) It wonder if some scholar would know his true identity. "Pseudo Ephraim" is propably some Catholic invention in an effort to hide the document in the endless line of some dusty archives.

I remember especially one difficult to understand part: here were to come "quaking in the thoroughfares".

What do you think about that? Could it mean, besides eatrhquakes, that the very core of earth would become unstable? Maybe highways paralyzed too? Now we see how air traffic is getting blows that will soon make it rare. Maybe then highways are next "punishment" target? Agape

ps. how sad that the American government is ones again going to push for Middle-East "peace" - and thus eventually bring punishment upon US.

My reply

What is really bad is for Bush to push for establishing a Palestinian state. Joe 3:2 I says, "I will also gather all nations, and will bring them down into the valley of Jehoshaphat, and will plead with them there for my people and for my heritage Israel, whom they have scattered among the nations, and PARTED MY LAND."

Re: Pseudo Ephraim, I don't know if we are thinking about the same document, but I'll give you what is on my computer. This isn't a vision, but a sermon. I don't know anything about a vision of his.

Thomas Ice's quotes from the about 1500-word sermon by Pseudo Ephraim is on

I have a hard copy of the whole sermon, but this is what I have on my computer: I don't have a scanner or I'd give you the whole thing. This is what is important to know anyway.

In his approx. 1500 word sermon, "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World," Pseudo-Ephraem (c. 374-627 AD) said, "All the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins." (Alexander, Paul J. "The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition [Berkeley: Univ. of CA Press, 1985] p. 210).

"Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and PREPARE OURSELVES FOR THE MEETING OF THE LORD CHRIST, SO THAT HE MAY DRAW US FROM THE CONFUSION, WHICH OVERWHELMS ALL THE WORLD? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: 'Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord?' FOR ALL THE SAINTS AND ELECT OF GOD ARE GATHERED, PRIOR TO THE TRIBULATION THAT IS TO COME, AND ARE TAKEN TO THE LORD LEST THEY SEE THE CONFUSION THAT IS TO OVERWHELM THE WORLD BECAUSE OF OUR SINS."

"And there will be a great tribulation, as there has not been since people began to be on earth...and no one is able to sell or buy of the grain of the harvest, unless he is the one who has the serpentine sign sign on the forehead or the hand. And when the three and a half years have been completed, the time of the Antichrist, through which he will have seduced the world, after the resurrection of the two prophets, in the hour which the world does not know and on the day which the enemy or the son of perdition does not know, will come the sign of the Son of Man, and coming forward the Lord shall appear with great power and much majesty, with the sign of salvation going before him, and also even with all the powers of the heavens with the whole chorus of the saints". Agape

Incoming e-mail

Re: Living the life of Christ
I am a Christian. However, since my baptism four years ago and since the holy spirit (truth) has inundated my life with constant prayer and search for his understanding and will my life has become increasingly difficult. There are several issues that I am dealing with presently. 1. I am a Paramedic, which the symbol of our profession is the staff and snake coiled around it. I know that in the Bible it says not to be a Sorcerer and/or a Wizard. I believe that a sorcerer refers to pharmacology and a wizard refers to science or chemistry, yet my profession relies on these tools to help the sick and injured. We unfortunately do not have the supernatural power that Christ had. I thought you could shed some light on this since I know your husband has been ill. Also my co-workers at work have been stand off-ish since they have been informed of my belief in Christ and every day some one will comment on how foolish my search for the truth is. I don't shove it down there throats but if they ask I tell them. When they hear the truth they sort of dis-own and isolate me.Living a Christian life at work is becoming increasingly difficult. 2. In the past four years I have brought my wife and daughter to know Christ, yet I am finding that I am increasingly becoming impatient with them. Unknowingly they constantly are arguing and interrupting my prayer life. I find that when I try to meditate on the lords word it seems instinctive in their nature to sabotage me. I find my self more and more wanting to be away from them. It seems that as my love for the lord grows it also takes me away from my family. Isn't there a scripture in the new testament concerning the disciples that in order to follow Christ you must leave your home and family? Yet on the other hand doesn't the old testament say that any man who abandons his wife and children is worse than an infidel? Don't get me wrong I dearly love my wife and daughter but it seems that my priorities have changed and I have not been the best father and husband lately. Can you shed some light on these areas for me. I have been reading your columns for sometime now and greatly enjoy them, Agape

My reply

> > since my baptism four years ago and since the holy spirit (truth) has inundated my life with constant prayer and search for his understanding and will my life has become increasingly difficult

When we take a spiritual step upward, we are tested to see if we will hang on to it or not. The more determined we are to hang on, the shorter the testing seems to be. It won't last forever. We can't be wishy washy. That can make the enemy think there is reason to keep bothering you. In studying the Faith-Rest Life and testing, I remember Bob Thieme saying that cursing will turn to blessing. He also said that we can have inner peace in the midst of chaos outside. Whatever it is, Jesus will see us through it. That has proved right in my life. Hang on to Rom 8:28. It says, "we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." Not everything is good, but God works everything together for our good.

> > I am a Paramedic, which the symbol of our profession is the staff and snake coiled around it. I know that in the Bible it says not to be a Sorcerer and/or a Wizard. I believe that a sorcerer refers to pharmacology and a wizard refers to science or chemistry, yet my profession relies on these tools to help the sick and injured.

A wizard is the male counterpart of a witch. Witchcraft must be steered clear of, but I doubt that you are anywhere close in your work. Acts 8:9-11 says, "there was a certain man, called Simon, which beforetime in the same city used sorcery (mageuo, magic, sorcery), and BEWITCHED the people of Samaria, giving out that himself was some great one: To whom they all gave heed, from the least to the greatest, saying, This man is the great power of God. And to him they had regard, because that of long time he had BEWITCHED them with sorceries (mageuo)." You obviously do not bewitch people, so this does not seem to present a problem.

Jesus healed people, whether it was the Sabbath or not. He had compassion for them in their infirmities. We can't heal like he did, and does, but we can do all in our power to make healing possible. Jesus didn't say anything against physicians, did he? Rev 18:23 says, "the light of a candle shall shine no more at all in thee; and the voice of the bridegroom and of the bride shall be heard no more at all in thee: for thy merchants were the great men of the earth; for by thy SORCERIES (PHARMAKEIA) were all nations deceived." A Diabetic will die without treatment. Is he deceived because he takes medicine that keeps it under control? No.

Strong's says, 5331 pharmakeia from 5332; medication ("pharmacy"), i.e. (by extension) magic (literally or figuratively):--sorcery, witchcraft. 5332 says, pharmakon, (a drug, i.e. spell-giving potion); a druggist ("pharmacist"_ or poisoner, i.e. (by extens.) a magician,--sorcerer.

If I remember right, the "spell-giving potion" given in some old heathen religions was a halucigenic called soma. It was given to enhance the chances of a person going into a trance and being possessed by a spirit or so-called god. Many ended up possessed all right--by a demon. Meditation and monotonous thought of and intonation of a single word over and over, what I call parking one's brains, was part of the ceremonies for the same reason. It made them more susceptible to demon possession. This kind of thing is deadly wrong and far different from your profession, or from the Diabetic that has to take medicine.

I do not like the symbol of the medical profession, either, but we seem to be stuck with it, like it or not. I take it that you are not giving anyone halucigenic drugs, and you are trying to save lives, not destroy them. Remember that God knows and judges by the thoughts in intents of the heart. Heb 4:12 says, "the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a DISCERNER OF THE THOUGHTS AND INTENTS OF THE HEART." I doubt that you have anything to worry about.

It is like someone can carry a knife and it be wrong, because they aim to hurt someone. Or, like me, I think there are times, it can be ok. Because we made and installed draperies, and sometimes unexpectedly needed scissors, screwdriver, etc., my daughter gave me a tiny Swiss Army Knife to put on my keychain. She said she had used the scissors on hers many times to trim threads and that they were small, but astonishing good. The only time I can think of that I used the knife blade was to open mail in the car. It is far too small to be much of a weapon. I think swinging a purse at someone's head would do more good if attacked. Just remember that God knows and judges by the thoughts and intents of the heart.

> > Isn't there a scripture in the new testament concerning the disciples that in order to follow Christ you must leave your home and family?

I'm not sure, but you may be thinking of the apostles and disciples when Christ was on Earth. In our days, we have an obligation to our families, and the Bible say to husbands, love your wives. Eph 5:25 says, "Husbands, LOVE YOUR WIVES, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it." Col 3:19 says, "Husbands, LOVE YOUR WIVES, AND BE NOT BITTER AGAINST THEM."

We are not to leave our families, but LOVE them. We are, at the same time, to LOVE God above all people and things. Both of these loves can exist together in harmony in our lives. Because we love God, we love our families, and God's love flows through us to our families. Instead of drawing farther away, we should be drawn closer to God and to our families.

We need to try to balance the time for each. Mostly, I study the Bible instead of watching TV, although I do read when seated before the TV, especially during the commercial breaks. Ed needs me with him too, so I watch ice skating, news and baseball (Dodgers and Angels), basketball (Lakers) or an occasional good football game with him. Any time he wants to go someplace, I finish the sentence I am on--jump up and go. I study and write after he is asleep too.

May the Lord help you balance your time for Him and time for your family so that there is no friction. Agape

Incoming e-mail

Jerry Golden Report:
My note: It seems to have been written about I SLAM soon after 9-11.

Incoming e-mail

This is a question I have wanted to ask for some time. It's not a major thing but it is troubling.

When the Day of wrath is complete there are to be very few people left. How do they hire men of continuing employment to clean up the land and get Jerusalem ready for the return of the Lord? If a child can count the remainder of mankind this seems like an impossible task for very few people. I would think seven months would be very inadequate, seven years maybe. Also, if all believers are to escape in the pre-wrath rapture then all that are left are unbelievers. Would not the Lord judge them too??? Just a bit of confusion with the timeline verses the population.

My reply

I think it isn't as if a child could count the men that are left, but that he could write the number. Isa 10:19 says, "the rest of the trees (men) of his forest shall be few, that a child may WRITE them." Israel will be saved in a day on the Day of God's Wrath (Isa. 66:8). That remnant will probably be protected. The unbelievers will not. The bodies are not buried anywhere but in Israel.

In Eze. 38:18-20, God's wrath is cast on Earth. All but 1/6th of Gog's army is destroyed (Eze. 39:2). After that, Eze. 39:11-13 says, "it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."

> > if all believers are to escape in the pre-wrath rapture then all that are left are unbelievers. Would not the Lord judge them too???

Yes. He will judge both believers in Heaven and unbelievers on Earth at the Judgment Seat of Christ on the 1st day of the Millennium. Rev. 11:18,19 says, "the nations (united nations, all nations, Zech. 14:2; Isa. 34:2) were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; AND shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament (written on two stone tablets that seem to represent the two asteroids that impact Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:4,5) because men were disobedient): and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

Zech. 5:1-4 says, "I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll (orbiting rolling thing). And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits (the binary asteroid is twice as long as wide). Then said he unto me, This is THE CURSE THAT GOETH FORTH (orbits) OVER THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH: for every one that STEALETH shall be cut off as on this side according to it (like one stone tablet with commandments on it); and every one that SWEARETH shall be cut off as on that side according to it (like the other stone tablet with the rest of the 10 commandments on it). I will bring it (the curse) forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (the False Prophet), and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by my name (the Tribulation Pope): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof." Agape

   Pro and Con 841   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at:

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (909) 653-4110

© 1996-2001, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 12-1-01